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Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

Started by roadman, October 28, 2015, 05:28:52 PM

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bob7374

The Worcester Telegram posted an article a couple days ago talking about the I-395 exit numbering changes in CT. It is also the first article that talks about MA starting to change exit numbers next year. The writer got this information from an FHWA spokesman and includes a sentence that their call to MassDOT for comment was never returned. Perhaps they don't know the right people to contact? The article:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20151212/NEWS/151219726


Henry

I find it odd that CT is renumbering the exits on I-395, but none of its other Interstates! What gives?
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

roadman

Quote from: bob7374 on December 16, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
The Worcester Telegram posted an article a couple days ago talking about the I-395 exit numbering changes in CT. It is also the first article that talks about MA starting to change exit numbers next year. The writer got this information from an FHWA spokesman and includes a sentence that their call to MassDOT for comment was never returned. Perhaps they don't know the right people to contact? The article:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20151212/NEWS/151219726

QuoteMichael Verseckes, spokesman for the Massachusetts Department of Transportation, did not reply to several emails and phone calls requesting information.

Sounds like they had the right person.  But they need to lose the "Wahh wahh wahh - they didn't call us back before our arbitrary deadline" attitude - a pet peeve of mine with the media.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2015, 11:53:07 AM
I find it odd that CT is renumbering the exits on I-395, but none of its other Interstates! What gives?
ConnDOT has apparently decided that they will wait until signs are due for renewal before changing out the numbers.  In practical terms, this means that the state might be fully converted in about 35 years.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

AMLNet49

#54
Quote from: roadman on December 17, 2015, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2015, 11:53:07 AM
I find it odd that CT is renumbering the exits on I-395, but none of its other Interstates! What gives?
ConnDOT has apparently decided that they will wait until signs are due for renewal before changing out the numbers.  In practical terms, this means that the state might be fully converted in about 35 years.
I don't have a source to confirm this, but I have a gut feeling that Conn is waiting to see if Mass can really finish all the patches from early 2016—early 2018. I feel like if it is the summer of 2018, and Mass has all of the patches installed (and on-budget), that ConnDOT will consider patching, having seen it succeed in a neighboring state of similar size. Just a feeling.

roadman

Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 17, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: roadman on December 17, 2015, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2015, 11:53:07 AM
I find it odd that CT is renumbering the exits on I-395, but none of its other Interstates! What gives?
ConnDOT has apparently decided that they will wait until signs are due for renewal before changing out the numbers.  In practical terms, this means that the state might be fully converted in about 35 years.
I don't have a source to confirm this, but I have a gut feeling that Conn is waiting to see if Mass can really finish all the patches from early 2016-—early 2018. I feel like if it is the spring of 2018, and Mass has all of the patches installed (and on-budget), that ConnDOT will consider patching, having seen it succeed in a neighboring state of similar size. Just a feeling.

The Massachusetts contract has a two year construction duration.  The contract was just awarded and NTP should be issued in early January 2016, which should put completion by no later than January 2018.  Corrected your comment to reflect this.

And your theory about ConnDOT waiting until signs in Massachusetts are converted before making a decision about issuing a similar blanket conversion contract in their state is interesting.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

AMLNet49

Quote from: roadman on December 17, 2015, 01:38:15 PM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 17, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: roadman on December 17, 2015, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2015, 11:53:07 AM
I find it odd that CT is renumbering the exits on I-395, but none of its other Interstates! What gives?
ConnDOT has apparently decided that they will wait until signs are due for renewal before changing out the numbers.  In practical terms, this means that the state might be fully converted in about 35 years.
I don't have a source to confirm this, but I have a gut feeling that Conn is waiting to see if Mass can really finish all the patches from early 2016-—early 2018. I feel like if it is the spring of 2018, and Mass has all of the patches installed (and on-budget), that ConnDOT will consider patching, having seen it succeed in a neighboring state of similar size. Just a feeling.

The Massachusetts contract has a two year construction duration.  The contract was just awarded and NTP should be issued in early January 2016, which should put completion by no later than January 2018.  Corrected your comment to reflect this.

And your theory about ConnDOT waiting until signs in Massachusetts are converted before making a decision about issuing a similar blanket conversion contract in their state is interesting.

Oops, edited my comment, thank you for catching that.

bob7374

Quote from: roadman on December 17, 2015, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 16, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
The Worcester Telegram posted an article a couple days ago talking about the I-395 exit numbering changes in CT. It is also the first article that talks about MA starting to change exit numbers next year. The writer got this information from an FHWA spokesman and includes a sentence that their call to MassDOT for comment was never returned. Perhaps they don't know the right people to contact? The article:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20151212/NEWS/151219726

QuoteMichael Verseckes, spokesman for the Massachusetts Department of Transportation, did not reply to several emails and phone calls requesting information.

Sounds like they had the right person.  But they need to lose the "Wahh wahh wahh - they didn't call us back before our arbitrary deadline" attitude - a pet peeve of mine with the media.
Just in case she still hadn't heard from MassDOT by yesterday, I sent the writer an e-mail with links to some of my new exit number listings. She thanked me but wanted to know from where I had compiled the information, so I gave her some more links to look for at the MassDOT website. Of course, if she had done a simple web search prior to publishing the story she wouldn't have had to complain about the lack of getting any information from the spokesperson.

roadman

Quote from: bob7374 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Just in case she still hadn't heard from MassDOT by yesterday, I sent the writer an e-mail with links to some of my new exit number listings. She thanked me but wanted to know from where I had compiled the information, so I gave her some more links to look for at the MassDOT website. Of course, if she had done a simple web search prior to publishing the story she wouldn't have had to complain about the lack of getting any information from the spokesperson.

But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

SectorZ

Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Just in case she still hadn't heard from MassDOT by yesterday, I sent the writer an e-mail with links to some of my new exit number listings. She thanked me but wanted to know from where I had compiled the information, so I gave her some more links to look for at the MassDOT website. Of course, if she had done a simple web search prior to publishing the story she wouldn't have had to complain about the lack of getting any information from the spokesperson.

But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.

Your example statement is not how writers are taught to write a news story. If a writer submits to their editor "The victim's identity was not available", the editor will ask "why", as will many readers. A good news story is supposed to point out simple facts, it's not antagonistic in giving the precise reason something is as it seems.

Now, in this case, it appears some laziness on part of the writer is a bit to blame, and it got taken out in a passive/aggressive way on MassDOT by the writer. However, a spokesperson's job is to respond to media inquiries, that's what we are paying them to do. If they don't respond to "several" inquiries, well they are as lazy as the reporter who could've gotten the info without them.

roadman

Your points are taken Sector Z, and I agree that my example statement may not have been proper (perhaps "Victim's identity has not yet been released due to X" would have been better).  However, I stand by my statement that the media is increasingly antagonistic in their reporting when they don't get information - even when that information is not available (like "Police would not release further details" when reporting crimes where they don't even have a suspect - excuse me - "person of interest").
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Alps

Instead of "did not reply to several emails and phone calls", a neutral statement would be "has not yet responded to inquiries". Shoddy journalism indeed.

bob7374

Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Just in case she still hadn't heard from MassDOT by yesterday, I sent the writer an e-mail with links to some of my new exit number listings. She thanked me but wanted to know from where I had compiled the information, so I gave her some more links to look for at the MassDOT website. Of course, if she had done a simple web search prior to publishing the story she wouldn't have had to complain about the lack of getting any information from the spokesperson.

But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.
A curious follow-up about the lack of MassDOT response about the exit number conversion project. MassDOT posted a blog entry last week about upcoming pubic meetings as part of its federally mandated Triennial Review to discuss the state of repair of the Western Mass. section of the Turnpike and other capital needs for this section of highway, necessary for keep toll collections going. I posted a comment that the meeting would also be a good time to let the public know about the upcoming sign replacement contracts and that these would come with changing exit numbers along I-90. When my comment was posted today though, only the part discussing the sign replacement was published, not the comments about the exit numbers. Given this and the lack of replies to reporters and others, is MassDOT going out of its way to keep the upcoming exit number changes from the general public for as long as possible?

Here's a link to the blog post: http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/western-massachusetts-turnpike-state-of-good-repair-public-meetings/

AMLNet49

Quote from: bob7374 on January 04, 2016, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 17, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Just in case she still hadn't heard from MassDOT by yesterday, I sent the writer an e-mail with links to some of my new exit number listings. She thanked me but wanted to know from where I had compiled the information, so I gave her some more links to look for at the MassDOT website. Of course, if she had done a simple web search prior to publishing the story she wouldn't have had to complain about the lack of getting any information from the spokesperson.

But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.
A curious follow-up about the lack of MassDOT response about the exit number conversion project. MassDOT posted a blog entry last week about upcoming pubic meetings as part of its federally mandated Triennial Review to discuss the state of repair of the Western Mass. section of the Turnpike and other capital needs for this section of highway, necessary for keep toll collections going. I posted a comment that the meeting would also be a good time to let the public know about the upcoming sign replacement contracts and that these would come with changing exit numbers along I-90. When my comment was posted today though, only the part discussing the sign replacement was published, not the comments about the exit numbers. Given this and the lack of replies to reporters and others, is MassDOT going out of its way to keep the upcoming exit number changes from the general public for as long as possible?

Here's a link to the blog post: http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/massdot-highway/western-massachusetts-turnpike-state-of-good-repair-public-meetings/
It certainly appears that way. According to something in the "Massachusetts" thread, the project could start this month, and even if it doesn't, it'll start within the amount of time that you would want to spread public awareness around this time. I don't see the motive in covering it up unless how it is somehow politically based.

vdeane

Here's a little government secret: if a DOT (or other agency) isn't as much as expected about something, politics are guaranteed to be the motive.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman65

Quote from: bob7374 on December 16, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
The Worcester Telegram posted an article a couple days ago talking about the I-395 exit numbering changes in CT. It is also the first article that talks about MA starting to change exit numbers next year. The writer got this information from an FHWA spokesman and includes a sentence that their call to MassDOT for comment was never returned. Perhaps they don't know the right people to contact? The article:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20151212/NEWS/151219726
Whoever wrote the article hasn't a clue. He says six states are sequential when he failed to check it out as Delaware is among the states that still uses sequential numbering.  So in reality seven states use that system not six!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Pete from Boston


Quote from: roadman65 on January 07, 2016, 06:59:11 AM
Quote from: bob7374 on December 16, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
The Worcester Telegram posted an article a couple days ago talking about the I-395 exit numbering changes in CT. It is also the first article that talks about MA starting to change exit numbers next year. The writer got this information from an FHWA spokesman and includes a sentence that their call to MassDOT for comment was never returned. Perhaps they don't know the right people to contact? The article:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20151212/NEWS/151219726
Whoever wrote the article hasn't a clue. He says six states are sequential when he failed to check it out as Delaware is among the states that still uses sequential numbering.  So in reality seven states use that system not six!

Calling Ms. Thompson clueless for being off by one on this is a little harsh, wouldn't you say?  Overall it was a concise and thorough article. 

I do see more of the same unfortunate trend here, probably because there are not enough reporters to be specialists these days, where reporters don't cultivate good enough contacts in their field of expertise to get anyone to call them back.

bob7374

Given the lull between the awarding of the contract (assuming this has happened) and the start of work, thought I'd respond to a question that was posted to FB here too. The question regarded whether the exit number conversion contract was replacing signs, and if so, why weren't new signs recently placed on I-290 given the new numbers? The reason is that the exit signs are not being replaced, just the numbers on the exit tabs. New overlay panels will be produced with the new numbers, as shown in this diagram from the project plans:


Numbers on pre-2010 signs will be changed in a similar manner:


The only new signs will be the 'Formerly Exit X' tabs which will be added to the existing signs, and perhaps, if needed, gore signs for larger numbers. Here's the standard 'FE' sign:

PHLBOS

Quote from: bob7374 on January 18, 2016, 06:03:23 PM
That particular BGS (assuming that it's showing the 114 exit off I-495) will likely need a wider exit tab (or Series D numerals & letter).  Current Exit 42A-B is slated to become Exit 100A-B.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

bob7374

The contract (Project 607092) "Fabrication and Installation of Tunnel Overhead Guide Signs along Sections of Interstates 90, 93 and Route 1," which will presumably include new exit numbers on the signs in the Big Dig Tunnels, was advertised for bids today, 2/6/16. The winning bidder will be announced on March 15. I am presuming the US 1 reference is for the City Square Tunnel which will get new signs, but not new exit numbers.

Duke87

Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.

They're only insulting to readers attempting to read objectively, which most readers are not. Most readers love drama and this sort of antagonism appeals to them, it feeds their emotional need to constantly be outraged about something.

As for trying to keep the impending change of exit numbers under wraps, I imagine MassDOT is actively trying to minimize said drama that everyone loves. If they were to go too public too soon with this, they would run the risk of generating a torrent of backlash that might result in something drastic happening like the governor ordering the DOT to cancel the project in order to appease the outraged masses. Which, given that they're required by the feds to change the numbers, might bring negative consequences to the state in the form of withheld federal funding. By deliberately keeping most people from being aware of any exit number changes until the signs are already going up, they ensure that by the time people flip out it will be too late to change anything.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

AMLNet49

Quote from: Duke87 on February 07, 2016, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.

They're only insulting to readers attempting to read objectively, which most readers are not. Most readers love drama and this sort of antagonism appeals to them, it feeds their emotional need to constantly be outraged about something.

As for trying to keep the impending change of exit numbers under wraps, I imagine MassDOT is actively trying to minimize said drama that everyone loves. If they were to go too public too soon with this, they would run the risk of generating a torrent of backlash that might result in something drastic happening like the governor ordering the DOT to cancel the project in order to appease the outraged masses. Which, given that they're required by the feds to change the numbers, might bring negative consequences to the state in the form of withheld federal funding. By deliberately keeping most people from being aware of any exit number changes until the signs are already going up, they ensure that by the time people flip out it will be too late to change anything.

True, but I would think that later this year (whenever the numbers start going up, which seems to be a huge mystery right now), there will be a Maine or Pennsylvania-type publicity campaign about the changes.

bob7374

The first milepost exit number on a Massachusetts BGS has been put up. Though, its not for a Massachusetts exit. Based on the latest post on the Connecticut News thread, the number for the 1 Mile advance sign for the first South I-395 CT exit, which is located before you cross the border, has been changed from 100 to 53. Are the numbers on I-395 in MA soon to follow?

AMLNet49

Quote from: bob7374 on February 22, 2016, 10:55:27 AM
The first milepost exit number on a Massachusetts BGS has been put up. Though, its not for a Massachusetts exit. Based on the latest post on the Connecticut News thread, the number for the 1 Mile advance sign for the first South I-395 CT exit, which is located before you cross the border, has been changed from 100 to 53. Are the numbers on I-395 in MA soon to follow?
I would assume so, 395 is a prime candidate to be among the first. The only question is when, since this project keeps getting pushed back it seems. When it does start, hopefully this spring or summer, 395 will almost certainly be an early conversion.

Pete from Boston

Quote from: AMLNet49 on February 07, 2016, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 07, 2016, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: roadman on December 18, 2015, 09:10:28 AM
But then she wouldn't have been able to bash the government for no good reason.  As I said, it's a tactic that's increasingly being used by the media when they don't get information (like the statement "Police would not release the victim's identity" instead of "The victim's idenity was not available").  Such antagnoistic statements add NO value to whatever is being reported, and are insulting to readers/viewers.

They're only insulting to readers attempting to read objectively, which most readers are not. Most readers love drama and this sort of antagonism appeals to them, it feeds their emotional need to constantly be outraged about something.

As for trying to keep the impending change of exit numbers under wraps, I imagine MassDOT is actively trying to minimize said drama that everyone loves. If they were to go too public too soon with this, they would run the risk of generating a torrent of backlash that might result in something drastic happening like the governor ordering the DOT to cancel the project in order to appease the outraged masses. Which, given that they're required by the feds to change the numbers, might bring negative consequences to the state in the form of withheld federal funding. By deliberately keeping most people from being aware of any exit number changes until the signs are already going up, they ensure that by the time people flip out it will be too late to change anything.

True, but I would think that later this year (whenever the numbers start going up, which seems to be a huge mystery right now), there will be a Maine or Pennsylvania-type publicity campaign about the changes.

The backlash that happens here is "The government did something and my personal problem is not solved by it, so I am going to list what is wrong with the government," followed by arguments about Donald Trump and Tom Brady and college kids.

People go online and say things like "The MBTA is terrible and my street doesn't get plowed, but they're going to change the exit numbers we all know?"  And the local news, which mostly reports on whatever gets twittered the most, fans the flames further.

I'd keep my head down, too.



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