Title says everything.
https://www.chronicleonline.com/news/local/state-plans-million-parkway-extension-to-cr/article_0871f6ac-fd87-11e8-bb1f-fba960a637f7.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR1e2A8VQiubrWNzqoa2XxqEe3Fg2CxVticPIx9UVLXI4yZGIOCqI3QF_Ks
There has been plenty of opposition to the Suncoast Parkway extension. There is also this article about the existing Suncoast Parkway not making enough toll money: http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/getting-it-wrong-suncoast-parkway-set-to-expand-even-as-it-fails-to-meet/2264338
I hope everything goes according to plan.
Sometimes it is not about the money, sometimes its about more urban sprawl.
In this case it's all about helping developers sell McMansions. Unfortunately for them only so many people in the United States are well off and drive around in high priced European sedans. But that's where the focus is nation-wide in housing. Price inflation way above that of average income growth proves it. The middle and lower end of the income spectrum only seems to be good pickings for selling sub-prime mortgages and existing fix-er-up properties. It's all the ingredients we need for another crash like we had last decade.
Anyway, what are the toll rates for the Suncoast Parkway anyway? People here in Oklahoma gripe loudly about the tolls on our roads, but the rates per mile here are a bargain compared to most toll roads. I'm guessing the rates there must be high. People often joke about Florida being primarily a state for old, retirees. One thing common with lots of older folks: they hate toll roads. One personal example: on road trips to Oklahoma City my grandfather would literally drive an hour out of the way just to avoid the measly tolls on the H.E. Bailey turnpike. This was back in the late 70's and early 80's. I think it was less than $1 each way. But we would burn a lot more fuel and time avoiding those toll gates. I can't help but think there's a bunch of residents North of the Tampa area who feel the same way.
According to the Sunpass Website, it costs a total of $5.08 w/Sunpass and $6.91 w/o Sunpass to drive the whole length from Tampa to Citrus County a distance of around 55 miles.
This road should have never been built unless it could have been extended northeast to Jacksonville with spur bypasses of Ocala & Gainesville, but instead come 2022 this will be just a toll road from Tampa to (middle of nowhere-Citrus County).
Even the Heartland Parkway which is quite a boondoogle on it's own, would have served a better purpose than Suncoast Parkway as HP could have helped get traffic off the congested hellway known as I-4.
Citrus County has a lot of older retirees (many whom are not wealthy-like the kind you see in St.John's or Palm Beach Counties) and many old school Floridians, it is not like Orlando or Miami where you can just build a toll road and then they will come.
Quote from: RoadPelican on December 19, 2018, 12:45:00 AM
According to the Sunpass Website, it costs a total of $5.08 w/Sunpass and $6.91 w/o Sunpass to drive the whole length from Tampa to Citrus County a distance of around 55 miles.
This road should have never been built unless it could have been extended northeast to Jacksonville with spur bypasses of Ocala & Gainesville, but instead come 2022 this will be just a toll road from Tampa to (middle of nowhere-Citrus County).
Even the Heartland Parkway which is quite a boondoogle on it's own, would have served a better purpose than Suncoast Parkway as HP could have helped get traffic off the congested hellway known as I-4.
Citrus County has a lot of older retirees (many whom are not wealthy-like the kind you see in St.John's or Palm Beach Counties) and many old school Floridians, it is not like Orlando or Miami where you can just build a toll road and then they will come.
They'll eventually extend it further north to Lake City and/or to Jacksonville AFAIK.
Also, Citrus County isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere-as it is somewhat considered to be a part of the Tampa Bay Area at its extreme northern extent.
Well, long-term I expect FDOT is either betting (a) Marion County gets so choked with I-75 traffic that they reconsider their opposition to an extension or (b) they can cobble together a feasible route avoiding Marion County (most likely involving a northern bypass of Gainesville) that still gets to Jacksonville. There is a huge tract of barely-developed land with infrastructure from one of those failed developments along US 41 north of Dunnellon (Rainbow Lakes Estates) whose owners are sitting on a goldmine if the Suncoast ever makes it into or just west of Marion County.
Quote from: lordsutch on December 19, 2018, 01:20:32 AM
Well, long-term I expect FDOT is either betting (a) Marion County gets so choked with I-75 traffic that they reconsider their opposition to an extension or (b) they can cobble together a feasible route avoiding Marion County (most likely involving a northern bypass of Gainesville) that still gets to Jacksonville. There is a huge tract of barely-developed land with infrastructure from one of those failed developments along US 41 north of Dunnellon (Rainbow Lakes Estates) whose owners are sitting on a goldmine if the Suncoast ever makes it into or just west of Marion County.
I would think that they'd avoid Marion County altogether, as there really isn't much to do or see there altogether aside from an art museum, a historic Army fort that was originally built before the Second Seminole War that was burned by the Seminole during the aforementioned war and rebuilt by the Army within a year or so of the burning of the fort by the Seminole, the oldest national forest east of the Mississippi River and the southernmost national forest in the mainland, and a state park featuring the oldest commercial tourist attraction in the entire state.
A northern bypass of Gainesville would probably cause "Hogtown" to expand and grow around the bypass, as long as economic development (and the economy itself) warrants it.
Quote from: RoadPelicanAccording to the Sunpass Website, it costs a total of $5.08 w/Sunpass and $6.91 w/o Sunpass to drive the whole length from Tampa to Citrus County a distance of around 55 miles.
Yeah, that's priced a tad bit high, about $1 per 10 miles. It's not as painful as some toll roads though. But it's easy to see why a lot of residents North of Tampa would shun-pike that route and take other North-South routes nearby. By comparison, a drive from my town up to Oklahoma City would have a motorist on the H.E. Bailey Turnpike (I-44) for 61 miles. The turnpike begins at Medicine Park (exit 46) and ends at Newcastle (exit 107). The toll for that is currently $3.75 for cash and $3.50 with PikePass.
I'll believe it when I see it. It's good to see this project get going.
Quote from: Henry on December 19, 2018, 02:31:40 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. It's good to see this project get going.
Indeed, I'm with you on this/that.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 18, 2018, 10:31:41 PM
In this case it's all about helping developers sell McMansions. Unfortunately for them only so many people in the United States are well off and drive around in high priced European sedans. But that's where the focus is nation-wide in housing. Price inflation way above that of average income growth proves it. The middle and lower end of the income spectrum only seems to be good pickings for selling sub-prime mortgages and existing fix-er-up properties. It's all the ingredients we need for another crash like we had last decade.
Anyway, what are the toll rates for the Suncoast Parkway anyway? People here in Oklahoma gripe loudly about the tolls on our roads, but the rates per mile here are a bargain compared to most toll roads. I'm guessing the rates there must be high. People often joke about Florida being primarily a state for old, retirees. One thing common with lots of older folks: they hate toll roads. One personal example: on road trips to Oklahoma City my grandfather would literally drive an hour out of the way just to avoid the measly tolls on the H.E. Bailey turnpike. This was back in the late 70's and early 80's. I think it was less than $1 each way. But we would burn a lot more fuel and time avoiding those toll gates. I can't help but think there's a bunch of residents North of the Tampa area who feel the same way.
In regards to the last thing you said, it all comes down to what's more important to you, your time or your money.
Quote from: theroadwayone on December 20, 2018, 06:50:28 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 18, 2018, 10:31:41 PM
In this case it's all about helping developers sell McMansions. Unfortunately for them only so many people in the United States are well off and drive around in high priced European sedans. But that's where the focus is nation-wide in housing. Price inflation way above that of average income growth proves it. The middle and lower end of the income spectrum only seems to be good pickings for selling sub-prime mortgages and existing fix-er-up properties. It's all the ingredients we need for another crash like we had last decade.
Anyway, what are the toll rates for the Suncoast Parkway anyway? People here in Oklahoma gripe loudly about the tolls on our roads, but the rates per mile here are a bargain compared to most toll roads. I'm guessing the rates there must be high. People often joke about Florida being primarily a state for old, retirees. One thing common with lots of older folks: they hate toll roads. One personal example: on road trips to Oklahoma City my grandfather would literally drive an hour out of the way just to avoid the measly tolls on the H.E. Bailey turnpike. This was back in the late 70's and early 80's. I think it was less than $1 each way. But we would burn a lot more fuel and time avoiding those toll gates. I can't help but think there's a bunch of residents North of the Tampa area who feel the same way.
In regards to the last thing you said, it all comes down to what's more important to you, your time or your money.
^ Agreed.
Quote from: lordsutch on December 19, 2018, 01:20:32 AM
Well, long-term I expect FDOT is either betting (a) Marion County gets so choked with I-75 traffic that they reconsider their opposition to an extension or (b) they can cobble together a feasible route avoiding Marion County (most likely involving a northern bypass of Gainesville) that still gets to Jacksonville. There is a huge tract of barely-developed land with infrastructure from one of those failed developments along US 41 north of Dunnellon (Rainbow Lakes Estates) whose owners are sitting on a goldmine if the Suncoast ever makes it into or just west of Marion County.
It would be nice if there were a way to reach this highway from Zuber north of Ocala. Crossing on U.S. 301 wasn't bad, but I-75 was a parking lot on Friday from there south to beyond the Turnpike junction (and pretty much the whole east side of Tampa Bay was choked with traffic). FL 200 is a start, but then a lot of cross-country zig-zagging is needed to even begin to get close to the current end of the Suncoast Parkway.
Bruce in Blacksburg (but temporarily in Florida)
Quote from: VTGoose on December 23, 2018, 04:11:04 PM
It would be nice if there were a way to reach this highway from Zuber north of Ocala. Crossing on U.S. 301 wasn't bad, but I-75 was a parking lot on Friday from there south to beyond the Turnpike junction (and pretty much the whole east side of Tampa Bay was choked with traffic). FL 200 is a start, but then a lot of cross-country zig-zagging is needed to even begin to get close to the current end of the Suncoast Parkway.
200 to 491 will get you close. You can also cut west at Citra through Williston and then 121 to 98. Or just pick up 121 in Gainesville if traffic there isn't bad.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 18, 2018, 05:09:43 PM
Sometimes it is not about the money, sometimes its about more urban sprawl.
If people want urban sprawl give it to them. I want urban sprawl. I greatly prefer the suburbs over living in the concrete jungle I do now.
Those who oppose sprawl would probably give you an earful for having that opinion, Plutonic Panda.
^^^ trust me, they have. Some have good points too.
Suburban and exurban sprawl is a side effect of the city center being a location that is way the hell too costly to live. It's ultimately about money. That's something the "new urbanist" types can never seem factor into their thinking. Many big city cores require a resident to be pretty rich or very poor to live there -with the latter being someone who may receive government assistance and live in low income project housing. Of course, we're seeing a lot of those projects being renovated into housing for hipsters. Widespread gentrification in New York City is a very obvious example. The new urbanists will act like they're being "green" and working to save the planet. From my point of view they appear to be indifferent to an exploding homelessness problem while guilt-tripping the rest of us outside the big city with their supposedly "green" life styles.
Abortions for all!
Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2018, 04:24:20 PM
Abortions for all!
How is this even relevant to the discussion? Unless you're referring to aborted highway plans and/or construction and/or funding (and etc).
Quote from: kevinb1994 on December 29, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2018, 04:24:20 PM
Abortions for all!
How is this even relevant to the discussion? Unless you're referring to aborted highway plans and/or construction and/or funding (and etc).
It's more relevant than your one-word "agreed". Suck it.
Quote from: NE2Abortions for all!
That's about the size of it for young adults living in dense urban areas. Many are stretched to the point of only being able to support themselves. Getting married and starting a family is a high cost luxury for many of them, unless they're willing to leave the big city to do it.
All I can do is laugh at the people who think outlawing abortion will solve the issue of "family planning." Young adults are getting very good at not getting pregnant in the first place. But if that law is overturned I can guarantee it will be boom times at vasectomy clinics, even if the guy has to foot the entire bill (most health insurance policies do not cover male sterilization procedures but do cover multiple options for women).
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 29, 2018, 02:11:31 PM
Suburban and exurban sprawl is a side effect of the city center being a location that is way the hell too costly to live. It's ultimately about money. That's something the "new urbanist" types can never seem factor into their thinking. Many big city cores require a resident to be pretty rich or very poor to live there -with the latter being someone who may receive government assistance and live in low income project housing. Of course, we're seeing a lot of those projects being renovated into housing for hipsters. Widespread gentrification in New York City is a very obvious example. The new urbanists will act like they're being "green" and working to save the planet. From my point of view they appear to be indifferent to an exploding homelessness problem while guilt-tripping the rest of us outside the big city with their supposedly "green" life styles.
It should also be noted that suburbs are where majority of people live. Suburbs are also where the majority of the growth is occurring. Sprawl is best served by freeways. The environmental argument against freeways is nonsense because freeways do nothing to harm the environment as far as emissions goes(except when it's being built and maintained). Sprawl is best served by wide freeways and roads– not mass transit.
Drink.
Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2018, 06:57:59 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on December 29, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2018, 04:24:20 PM
Abortions for all!
How is this even relevant to the discussion? Unless you're referring to aborted highway plans and/or construction and/or funding (and etc).
It's more relevant than your one-word "agreed". Suck it.
Well, excuse me for crying out loud!
Quote from: NE2 on December 29, 2018, 09:03:19 PM
Drink.
We have plenty of water bottles here, thank you very much.
This road was intended to be a relief route but at the same time a sprawl inducer. Right now it does serve as commuter route from Pasco County to The Bay Area. It's not useless except it's dangling end at SR 44 in LeCanto unless they do finish it elsewhere, but then even as a proposed hurricane evacuation route it will also feed the politicians into using it for more sprawl especially in undeveloped Citrus, Marion and possibly Levy counties.
Just was on Citrus County Road 490 and saw that construction is well underway where the future Suncoast Parkway will cross the rural two lane road. A new parallel pavement is in place to be a detour while the existing roadway is refurbished as well as be a permanent eastbound roadway as when the exchange is completed will be four lanes while passing through the intersection so that when more growth happens the road is at least widened within the interchange.
It looks to me like they are more than ready to get this thing done and with traffic at a stand still in Homosassa Springs on nearby US 19 as it was today, this road is needed to funnel some of that mess away.
If done right, the Suncoast Parkway could be useful in taking traffic off I-75. Connecting it to U.S. 19 north of Inglis would be a great shortcut from Tallahassee to Tampa.
Quote from: Gnutella on January 11, 2019, 09:47:56 PM
If done right, the Suncoast Parkway could be useful in taking traffic off I-75. Connecting it to U.S. 19 north of Inglis would be a great shortcut from Tallahassee to Tampa.
I would suggest also tying it into the First Coast Expressway.
Quote from: Gnutella on January 11, 2019, 09:47:56 PM
If done right, the Suncoast Parkway could be useful in taking traffic off I-75. Connecting it to U.S. 19 north of Inglis would be a great shortcut from Tallahassee to Tampa.
Actually, the original plan was to take it to Red Level.
My biggest beef with the extension is the realignment west of the originally proposed interchange with US 98, which also runs through the Etna Turpentine Camp Archeological Site. I think they should've kept the originally planned configuration then curved the parkway around the site, and sent it back to where they have it now north of Citrus CR 480.