News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

EV pickup range while towing

Started by tradephoric, July 07, 2022, 03:10:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

seicer

I would say generally less maintenance only because there are far fewer moving parts but in some instances, EVs can be more expensive to repair or maintain because that manufacturer decided on using more expensive parts: https://www.slashgear.com/908870/tesla-repair-costs-are-more-than-27-higher-than-the-average-car-heres-why/

EVs won't be adopted on a more global scale until we stop fetishing EVs as a luxury.


GaryV

Quote from: JREwing78 on July 24, 2022, 11:03:55 PM
good for 310 miles of range via the EPA.
What's that translate to in real life? Most people don't get gas mileage that EPA estimates.
QuoteOr, hell, I rent a car for the handful of times that range won't cut it.
Provided such vehicles still exist. Part of the comments in this thread are about the the proposals for banning ICE in the not so distant future.

When we travel, our rest stops usually take about 10 minutes. Gas fill-ups 5-10 minutes. If you could combine those things - say there are charging stations in rest areas - then a 20 minute charge time doesn't really add to the trip. I can see that tradeoff.

But that still doesn't take into account the fact that millions of residences don't have the possibility of a charging station at home overnight. They don't have off-street parking at all. Others are like me, who have a garage but don't use it for the car because it's full of other stuff - lawn mower, grill, bikes, garbage and recycle barrels, etc. Is there a way to install an outdoor charging station at home next to the driveway?

I'm not saying EV's are impossible for everyone, but that they are darn near impossible for some. Which is OK as long as there are ICE alternatives.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: seicer on July 25, 2022, 08:57:25 AM
I would say generally less maintenance only because there are far fewer moving parts but in some instances, EVs can be more expensive to repair or maintain because that manufacturer decided on using more expensive parts: https://www.slashgear.com/908870/tesla-repair-costs-are-more-than-27-higher-than-the-average-car-heres-why/

EVs won't be adopted on a more global scale until we stop fetishing EVs as a luxury.

Two take-aways from that article:

"The reason repairs for Teslas are so expensive is because many of the parts aren't as mass-produced as those made for far more high-production vehicles."

This one makes a lot of sense.  Tesla is still the new kid of the market, and doesn't have the volume of other legacy car manufacturers.  As more Teslas - and more EVs - come to the market, the price to produce and stock individual components will come down. 

"(Repairpal) suggests that the average repair cost of any given Tesla vehicle is approximately $832 per year, whereas the average vehicle (across all brands) is closer to $652 per year."

This one is more ambiguous because they give the average for one make, and compares it to the entire population of other makes.  An average is just that - an average. Some will be higher; some will be lower.  If we were to look at Hondas, the average maintenance/repair cost annually is only $428.  But if we were to look at Ford - one of the most common vehicle brands on the road and thus a ton of parts and supplies available, the average annual maintenance/repair cost is $775. That's just $57 less than a Tesla, or using today's pricing, less than the cost of a tank of gas in most Fords.

The cost of ownership - which generally takes into account the various repairs and maintenance one would expect to incur over a 5 year period - has long been a stat available in various publications and websites.  I'm going out on a limb though that most people don't consider it when buying a car, and only today use it as an argument against EVs.  I bet they probably didn't even review their own vehicle's costs when looking this up, or when they were buying a vehicle!

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: seicer on July 25, 2022, 08:57:25 AM
I would say generally less maintenance only because there are far fewer moving parts but in some instances, EVs can be more expensive to repair or maintain because that manufacturer decided on using more expensive parts: https://www.slashgear.com/908870/tesla-repair-costs-are-more-than-27-higher-than-the-average-car-heres-why/

EVs won't be adopted on a more global scale until we stop fetishing EVs as a luxury.

That's my issue in terms of making a switch to an commuter/daily driving EV coupled with generally available range.  I don't think mid-20k range and a reliable 400 mile range are too much to ask as an aspirational measure.  Why would I go buy a car that doesn't permit me to go wander out on a 400 mile driving loop on a whim like I'm currently accustomed to?  Maybe that that will be a regular thing in 3-5 years as EVs trickle down to tiers lower than the luxury segment?

mgk920

Time to close this thread now, I see.

:nod:

Mike

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mgk920 on July 25, 2022, 11:45:54 AM
Time to close this thread now, I see.

:nod:

Mike

It wasn't time to close it when there was talk about animal farts and human flatulence fusion motors?

skluth

In what could be a game-changer for EVs if it works out, it may be possible to charge an EV in under 10 minutes. It won't help the range, but it will make EVs more appealing to the masses when it doesn't require a 20-30 minute pit stop to charge.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: skluth on September 06, 2022, 07:04:31 PM
In what could be a game-changer for EVs if it works out, it may be possible to charge an EV in under 10 minutes. It won't help the range, but it will make EVs more appealing to the masses when it doesn't require a 20-30 minute pit stop to charge.

So it will take me twice as long to fill up as I currently do to drive maybe 60 miles down the road to do it again.  Not impressed. 

Scott5114

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 07, 2022, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 06, 2022, 07:04:31 PM
In what could be a game-changer for EVs if it works out, it may be possible to charge an EV in under 10 minutes. It won't help the range, but it will make EVs more appealing to the masses when it doesn't require a 20-30 minute pit stop to charge.

So it will take me twice as long to fill up as I currently do to drive maybe 60 miles down the road to do it again.  Not impressed. 


if(60==250)
{
    $ev_discussion_in_progress = true;
}
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

It's amazing how many people refuse to believe that there is any EV on the road that isn't just the Nissan Leaf (which itself is in the process of being phased out because it's obsolete) by another name.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Big John

Schneider trucking to add fleet of electric trucks to California for short-range trips
https://www.wbay.com/2022/09/07/schneider-introduces-fleet-electric-trucks/

mgk920

Quote from: Big John on September 07, 2022, 07:48:56 PM
Schneider trucking to add fleet of electric trucks to California for short-range trips
https://www.wbay.com/2022/09/07/schneider-introduces-fleet-electric-trucks/

They'd likely be sitting idle the last hew days with CA back into the 'rolling blackouts' and 'emergency' energy conservation orders thing.

:banghead:
Mike

SEWIGuy

Quote from: mgk920 on September 07, 2022, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 07, 2022, 07:48:56 PM
Schneider trucking to add fleet of electric trucks to California for short-range trips
https://www.wbay.com/2022/09/07/schneider-introduces-fleet-electric-trucks/

They'd likely be sitting idle the last hew days with CA back into the 'rolling blackouts' and 'emergency' energy conservation orders thing.

:banghead:
Mike

Do you expect trucking companies to completely ignore the price of fuel and look toward other sources of energy?

triplemultiplex

Or they'd charge them in the middle of the night when there isn't the stress on the grid.  Duh.
Also the implied assumption that the electrical grid will be exactly the same by the end of the decade as it is today is patently absurd.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Or they'd charge them in the middle of the night when there isn't the stress on the grid.  Duh.
Also the implied assumption that the electrical grid will be exactly the same by the end of the decade as it is today is patently absurd.

It will be worse judging how population everywhere is rising.

skluth

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 08, 2022, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Or they'd charge them in the middle of the night when there isn't the stress on the grid.  Duh.
Also the implied assumption that the electrical grid will be exactly the same by the end of the decade as it is today is patently absurd.

It will be worse judging how population everywhere is rising.

Population rising beats the alternative

kphoger

Quote from: skluth on September 08, 2022, 04:38:34 PM
Population rising beats the alternative

Aren't we trending toward the alternative anyway?

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SectorZ

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Also the implied assumption that the electrical grid will be exactly the same by the end of the decade as it is today is patently absurd.

Hasn't California been having these rolling blackouts for 20 years?

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: SectorZ on September 09, 2022, 06:29:41 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Also the implied assumption that the electrical grid will be exactly the same by the end of the decade as it is today is patently absurd.

Hasn't California been having these rolling blackouts for 20 years?

The biggest myth going on in California is that high summer temperatures and seasonal fires a new phenomenon.  There are records for highs and consecutive days of high heat which are causing longer periods of the grid reaching capacity the last couple years however. 

All the same, there isn't exactly a lot of plans to add huge generation capacity in California outside of the planned off shore wind farm near Morro Bay:

https://m.newtimesslo.com/sanluisobispo/coastal-commission-hears-from-energy-commission-chair-on-offshore-wind-and-grid-challenges/Content?oid=12914951

Basically the idea is to add 2-5 Gigawatts by 2030 and something like 25 gigawatts by 2045.  The big hook is to have the power grid consist of 100% renewable energy by 2045.  The initial wind farms by 2030 would in theory just be an offset or partial increase in capacity if Canyon Diablo Nuclear Generating Station remains operational until 2030.

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/california/calmatters/diablo-canyon-nuke-plant/103-b27513c6-a1fb-4d15-b20f-29a77874651e

Considering how unpopular other recent public works projects in California have been it seems I'll advised to plan the 2035 EV mandate around the assumption that nothing will be challenged.  Considering the end end goal is 100% renewables is 2045 to me that would have been the more reasonable passenger EV target.  All the same the 2035 mandate has so many loopholes like 20% ICEs via plug-in hybrids and not banning out of state purchases that it hardly is the hard ban it is presented to be in the media. 

SEWIGuy

My understanding is that some of California's problems isn't just power generation, but power storage and contracts that require power to be shipped out of state even during peak usage times. 

Max Rockatansky


skluth

California is getting creative on future energy projects. The Eagle Mountain project will use an abandoned mine at the far eastern end of Joshua Tree to pump water to an upper reservoir during times of surplus power and produce renewable hydro power when needed. This is not new technology; the Taum Sauk Power Station in Missouri has been generating electricity by this method for decades. All renewable doesn't mean a complete dependence on the temporary nature of wind and solar power.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: skluth on September 09, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
California is getting creative on future energy projects. The Eagle Mountain project will use an abandoned mine at the far eastern end of Joshua Tree to pump water to an upper reservoir during times of surplus power and produce renewable hydro power when needed. This is not new technology; the Taum Sauk Power Station in Missouri has been generating electricity by this method for decades. All renewable doesn't mean a complete dependence on the temporary nature of wind and solar power.

If you've ever been to Casper, there is nothing temporary about the wind.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 05:53:26 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 09, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
California is getting creative on future energy projects. The Eagle Mountain project will use an abandoned mine at the far eastern end of Joshua Tree to pump water to an upper reservoir during times of surplus power and produce renewable hydro power when needed. This is not new technology; the Taum Sauk Power Station in Missouri has been generating electricity by this method for decades. All renewable doesn't mean a complete dependence on the temporary nature of wind and solar power.

If you've ever been to Casper, there is nothing temporary about the wind.

That's basically how the San Luis Reservoir at Pacheco Pass presently functions.

JREwing78

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 09, 2022, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 09, 2022, 05:53:26 PM
Quote from: skluth on September 09, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
California is getting creative on future energy projects. The Eagle Mountain project will use an abandoned mine at the far eastern end of Joshua Tree to pump water to an upper reservoir during times of surplus power and produce renewable hydro power when needed. This is not new technology; the Taum Sauk Power Station in Missouri has been generating electricity by this method for decades. All renewable doesn't mean a complete dependence on the temporary nature of wind and solar power.

If you've ever been to Casper, there is nothing temporary about the wind.

That's basically how the San Luis Reservoir at Pacheco Pass presently functions.

As does the Ludington Pumped Storage plant in Michigan. https://www.consumersenergy.com/company/electric-generation/renewables/hydroelectric/pumped-storage-hydro-electricity



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.