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Started by iBallasticwolf2, August 29, 2015, 08:18:14 PM

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thenetwork

Quote from: cl94 on September 19, 2017, 08:06:01 PM
I was going to say, definitely a first. And a few of the 71/75/50 exits are on top of the border, with A/B being roughly 500 feet north of it. I don't even understand why I-71 gets a number from I-271.


I guess the unwritten rule of thumb is that if a routed freeway ("A") ends at another routed freeway ("B"), and you wind up on route "B" no matter which exit you take, there is no need to number those exits/ramps.  This means that I-271 especially should have no exit number at I-71 as there is only one option / ramp and that is to I-71 South.

However, if highway "A" ends at an interchange where you can wind up on highway "B" or highway "C", "D", etc... then there should be an exit number associated with the possible ramps/exits at the intersection (as in the case of SR-8 in Akron @ the Central Interchange / I-76 & I-77).

Now the remaining question is:  Should this terminus for highway "A" be labeled Exit 0 (A/B,...) or Exit 1 (A/B,...)? 

In the case of the Central Interchange in Akron?  Yes, Exit 0x is suitable as Route 8 ends there.  In the case of the interchange at the north end of the Brent Spence in Cincinnati?  No, Exit 1x is more suitable as all 3 highways continue there AND the exit numbers are simply resetting at the state line. As a bonus:  I-270 is right to have an Exit 1 vs an Exit 0 at I-71 as the route continues and starts counting down the miles again for another lap around Columbus.

The only other example of numbered highways in Ohio that could fit the "should it be Exit 0 or Exit 1" scenario that I know of is Southbound I-280 at the Ohio Turnpike in Toledo.  I would rename that as an Exit 0 for the Turnpike I-80/90 and the continuing of the expressway onto OH-420 would not be numbered.


PurdueBill

Quote from: thenetwork on September 19, 2017, 10:54:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 19, 2017, 08:06:01 PM
I was going to say, definitely a first. And a few of the 71/75/50 exits are on top of the border, with A/B being roughly 500 feet north of it. I don't even understand why I-71 gets a number from I-271.


I guess the unwritten rule of thumb is that if a routed freeway ("A") ends at another routed freeway ("B"), and you wind up on route "B" no matter which exit you take, there is no need to number those exits/ramps.  This means that I-271 especially should have no exit number at I-71 as there is only one option / ramp and that is to I-71 South.

However, if highway "A" ends at an interchange where you can wind up on highway "B" or highway "C", "D", etc... then there should be an exit number associated with the possible ramps/exits at the intersection (as in the case of SR-8 in Akron @ the Central Interchange / I-76 & I-77).

Now the remaining question is:  Should this terminus for highway "A" be labeled Exit 0 (A/B,...) or Exit 1 (A/B,...)? 

In the case of the Central Interchange in Akron?  Yes, Exit 0x is suitable as Route 8 ends there.  In the case of the interchange at the north end of the Brent Spence in Cincinnati?  No, Exit 1x is more suitable as all 3 highways continue there AND the exit numbers are simply resetting at the state line. As a bonus:  I-270 is right to have an Exit 1 vs an Exit 0 at I-71 as the route continues and starts counting down the miles again for another lap around Columbus.

The only other example of numbered highways in Ohio that could fit the "should it be Exit 0 or Exit 1" scenario that I know of is Southbound I-280 at the Ohio Turnpike in Toledo.  I would rename that as an Exit 0 for the Turnpike I-80/90 and the continuing of the expressway onto OH-420 would not be numbered.

The Exit 1 for 71 from 271 has been there for so long that they probably wouldn't change it if they ever did decide on a mass implementation of Exit 0; even the old button copy signs with lighting had Exit 1 tabs.  There is never a gore sign saying Exit 1, though.

I-490 should use Exit 0 at 90/71/176.  It uses Exit 1 with letters. At the other end, it lacks numbers for 77, which it should have.

I-280 should indeed also use Exit 0 for current Exit 1A for its parent I-80; that would allow current Exit 1B about a mile away to just be Exit 1.

I think the end of I-675 should have numbers, preferably Exit 0A-B as well since there is a choice, not just defaulting onto 75 SB.  If there were ramps for NB and SB elsewhere, they would get A-B suffixes, so why not here too.

cl94

How could  there be a gore sign for I-271 Exit 1? The first Exit 1 advance is well after the last gore point on the road. First time through there as an 8 year old, I thought the road continued with that sign. Nope. That thing shouldn't have any number, period.
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PurdueBill

Quote from: cl94 on September 19, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
How could  there be a gore sign for I-271 Exit 1? The first Exit 1 advance is well after the last gore point on the road. First time through there as an 8 year old, I thought the road continued with that sign. Nope. That thing shouldn't have any number, period.

Exactly.  Although there is a gore sign at the end of the US 3 expressway in Mass, albeit at what would have been an actual gore point if the road had continued.  It isn't unprecedented to have a gore-like sign for a default movement like 271 to 71.  Indeed it shouldn't have an exit number, but if it has to, I wish it were Exit 0.

vtk

Quote from: PurdueBill on September 19, 2017, 01:09:16 AM
(If done analogous to Route 8, the movement from 315 south to 71 south would get no exit number, just as 8 to 77 south gets no exit number.

Technically, 315 northbound begins from I-70 eastbound and descends the loop ramp. Southbound 315 is not technically defined, but to me the logical inference from what northbound 315 does is that southbound 315 takes the ramp to 70 westbound and terminates where it meets the latter. So the connection to 71 southbound and the ramp to 70/71 eastbound would be left exits, while the ramp to 70 westbound is not an exit at all. Not that I'm advocating it should be signed that way.

If it were up to me:
1A: [SB only 70/71 E]
1B: [SB only 71 S]
1C: [SB only 70 W]
1D: 62 / 3 / Rich / Town / [SB only Sullivant (future)]
1E: [SB only Broad]
2A: 670 W / [NB only 33 / Dublin / Long]
2B: 670 E
2C: Goodale

But ODOT didn't ask me. And even if they did, they probably would have modified my plan so the northbound exit to Rich / Town is simply exit 1, rather than exit 1D.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

thenetwork

Quote from: PurdueBill on September 19, 2017, 11:33:39 PM
The Exit 1 for 71 from 271 has been there for so long that they probably wouldn't change it if they ever did decide on a mass implementation of Exit 0; even the old button copy signs with lighting had Exit 1 tabs.  There is never a gore sign saying Exit 1, though.

The reason why they probably numbered I-271 / I-71 Exit 1 was there were 2 ideas being kicked around over the decades that never came to fruition:

1) Creating a Western Cleveland beltway that would have linked I-90 to I-71, and I-271 would have been extended from it's current terminus.  I think it was mentioned only once or twice in the area papers.

2) This was the more realistic possibility:  Creating a northern bypass of Medina, where SR-18 would have gone up one exit on I-71 then head west on a freeway/express bypass at I-271 rejoining the current alignment of SR-18 somewhere near Mallet Creek / SR-252.  The bypass would have roughly followed the high-tension power lines between said two points.  This proposal was shot down by the NIMBY's (as was a second proposal to build a southern bypass near/along SR-162). 

Had either of these ideas came to fruition, the I-271/I-71 exit would have been completely revamped and an Exit 1 (or Exit 0), or a new renumbering (if I-271 was extended) would have made sense.


I forgot about I-490 -- that western end should have been numbered Exit 0 A/B as well.  With the new Opportunity Parkway / SR-10 extension in the works, the eastern terminus may still get assigned an exit number yet when it is opened and new signs are needed.

doglover44


Buck87

ODOT plans to add a "smart lane" to Eastbound I-670 from Fourth Street to I-270. This will be a left side shoulder that opens up as an extra lane to traffic during peak times.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D06/projects/SmartLane/Pages/default.aspx

Buck87

The OH 2 west to OH 269 north ramp has been closed since the end of November because of this:



ODOT estimates it will be closed until August of 2018, and OH 2 westbound though the area will be reduced to one lane. Luckily the OH 53 exit comes very soon after that spot and provides an alternative to access the Marblehead Peninsula that only adds a few miles to the trip.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D02/newsreleases/Pages/Update-WB-SR-2-to-NB-SR-269-.aspx

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

triplemultiplex

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 23, 2018, 12:00:47 AM
P.S. Here's what ODOT is proposing to do to I-270/I-70/Brice Rd (no mention of I-70-Hamilton Rd interchange).
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D06/projects/FarEastFreewayStudy/Documents/20170411_FRA70_VE_Phase%20Exhibit%20Full.pdf

Looking good!  The WB -> SB ramp in particular strikes me as something that should've been there originally given the southern part of 270's utility as a bypass for thru traffic.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Buck87

The 270 SB to 70 EB ramp is listed under Tier 2 without funding on the current TRAC 2018-2021 project draft list.

Though on the topic of TRAC, they are scheduled to vote on the final list tomorrow.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

seicer

Looks like SR 32, at some point, will receive interchanges at Glen Este-Withamsville Road and Bach Buxton Road, with an overpass at Old SR 74 to the east of that. Clepper Lane east of Glen Estate-Withamsville Road will be extended east to Bach Buxton Road, and SR 32 will be widened to six lanes throughout - to I guess at Olive Branch-Stonelick Road.

Unspecified improvements will happen at SR/32Mt. Carmel-Tobasco Road/Bell Lane and the continuation of work at the SR 32/I-275, and work from US 50 (I guess in Newtown?) towards Eastgate.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: seicer on January 26, 2018, 07:14:56 AM
Looks like SR 32, at some point, will receive interchanges at Glen Este-Withamsville Road and Bach Buxton Road, with an overpass at Old SR 74 to the east of that. Clepper Lane east of Glen Estate-Withamsville Road will be extended east to Bach Buxton Road, and SR 32 will be widened to six lanes throughout - to I guess at Olive Branch-Stonelick Road.

Unspecified improvements will happen at SR/32Mt. Carmel-Tobasco Road/Bell Lane and the continuation of work at the SR 32/I-275, and work from US 50 (I guess in Newtown?) towards Eastgate.

Yeah, see the Oh 32/I-74 thread over on the Ohio Valley board.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21895.0
Someone posted an article specifically concerning TRAC funding for this project there.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Buck87

I was in a craft store last week and while walking down the scrapbook background page aisle I noticed one that was a road map. So being a roadgeek I naturally picked it up to get a better look to see if I could figure out where it was...and it took all of about 2 seconds to realize this was a map of southern Ohio.

After looking at it a little closer it was obvious to see that whoever made this has taken a Rand McNally image and made some changes to it to make it seem generic, like changing I-71 to I-11 and leaving off some recognizable names such a Xenia, Chillicothe and just the "Court  House" part from Washington Court House. Looks most of the other route numbers and place names were left alone.

I thought this was interesting and figured it was worth sharing here. Anyone notice any other things wrong or changed on this map?





VS988


seicer

This map predates, what, 1995? OH 32 hasn't been finished near Piketon and US 23. And a good chunk of US 35 on both sides of I-71 have not been converted into an expressway.

sparker

Looks like a misprint here: an I-11 shield on I-71 at the north edge of the map segment shown.  And the above post was right about OH 32 in the Scioto Valley; that wasn't done, IIRC, until 1996 or 1997. 

thenetwork

Xenia was wiped off the map...Kinda like how Xenia was pretty much wiped off the map in the 1974 Tornado.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: thenetwork on February 02, 2018, 12:44:05 AM
Xenia was wiped off the map...Kinda like how Xenia was pretty much wiped off the map in the 1974 Tornado.
So the map is from 1975 then?  :poke:
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Buck87

Quote from: sparker on January 30, 2018, 05:40:04 PM
And the above post was right about OH 32 in the Scioto Valley; that wasn't done, IIRC, until 1996 or 1997.

Sounds about right, as I can vaguely remember that section of 32 being 2 lanes when I was a young kid. I want to say that the current diamond interchange with US 23 was already there when it was still 2 lanes, anyone know when it was built?

BrianP

Quote from: Buck87 on February 02, 2018, 09:54:57 AM
Quote from: sparker on January 30, 2018, 05:40:04 PM
And the above post was right about OH 32 in the Scioto Valley; that wasn't done, IIRC, until 1996 or 1997.

Sounds about right, as I can vaguely remember that section of 32 being 2 lanes when I was a young kid. I want to say that the current diamond interchange with US 23 was already there when it was still 2 lanes, anyone know when it was built?
Historical Aerials says the interchange was there in 1960.  While the 1959 topo map doesn't show either road. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Route_124
Says:
Quote1997 — Jasper to Givens upgraded to divided highway.

seicer

The interchange was moved north when OH 32 was widened in 1997 from Jasper east to Givens, completing the last gap for that corridor. US 23 was widened to four lanes through the area in 1960 and an interchange was added for OH 124.

Buck87



Quote from: seicer on February 02, 2018, 12:19:26 PM
The interchange was moved north when OH 32 was widened in 1997 from Jasper east to Givens, completing the last gap for that corridor. US 23 was widened to four lanes through the area in 1960 and an interchange was added for OH 124.

Thanks, I actually drove through there today on 23, and having read your post before leaving I knew to look for signs of this and noticed the old location of 124 which is now part of a local road and still goes under 23 under the original bridge.

VS988


Buck87

#324
OH 113 has an interesting history. At its longest point it went from the Indiana border to Rocky River, but after part of it got rerouted onto the Fremont bypass it had a really long section of concurrencies from Fostoria to Bellevue, so in 1970 it was truncated at Bellevue and the part west of Fostoria came OH 613.

Now you would think it would make the most sense to have 113 end right at US 20/OH 18 on the east side of Bellevue... however, on paper the official designation of 113 continues for 0.9 miles along US 20/OH 18 to the Huron/Sandusky County Line right in the center of Bellevue. I can only assume it officially ends there  because that's the border between ODOT districts 3 and 2 (and also used to be the intersection with OH 269)

However, never in my life have I seen any mention of OH 113 over that 0.9 mile concurrency on any of the signage.....that is until now. Very recently an "End OH 113" sign has turned up at the county line in downtown Bellevue. However, that is the only new sign that has gone up, there is still no mention of 113 anywhere else in either direction between the county line and the 113/20 intersection (where the end sign should have been put in the first place.) So as it stands, 113 has the interesting distinction if having pointless concurrencies with US 20 at both ends.

Here are a couple pics of the new sign, with the purpose of the 2nd one being to include the county line sign.






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