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Author Topic: Fans that live outside the sports markets  (Read 1047 times)

KCRoadFan

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2022, 04:25:14 PM »

I already made a thread about this a while ago - well, at least for baseball, that is.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29085.0
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2022, 04:26:38 PM »

Florida’s first pro football team were the short-lived Miami Seahawks (no relation to the much-later Seattle team), and it took two decades for pro football to return to South Florida. Then it took another decade for a expansion team to be added in Tampa.


As for Jacksonville, there was an early effort in the 1920s, but nothing substantial until sometime after WWII, when there were attempts to bring a team from elsewhere here, but that didn’t work out and so we ended up getting the Jags instead after an effort started in the late 80s.


Florida is still more of a spring training destination (outside of Miami-Fort Lauderdale) than a actual MLB season destination, and that’s going to stay the same for the foreseeable future. Unless you mean MiLB, which is spread out among major cities such as Pensacola, Jacksonville, and Tampa.


College sports have long been a thing here in the Sunshine State, with the Gators and Seminoles long a draw…but the UCF Knights have stolen attention in recent years with their breakout seasons. I can’t say for sure about any of the other colleges.


UCF in particular has helped to make Greater Orlando more of a media draw than, say, South Florida (aka Miami-Fort Lauderdale), with the jump in television for example.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 04:32:12 PM by kevinb1994 »
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2022, 11:27:34 PM »

One place where state lines do matter is Virginia.  The ENTIRE state is, umm, Commanders fans.  All the way to the tip of Lee County, eight and a half hours away, but as soon as you cross out of Virginia, more geographically logical fandom resumes. 

Interesting how baseball is different from football here. According to the NYTimes graphic for baseball, get outside suburban DC and no team, even the Nationals, reaches 30%.* In Richmond, the Nationals aren't even in the top 3 (third place is 13%), and the same is true for Hampton Roads (third place 10%). The map shows Yankees colors except for a portion in the southwest corner for the Braves, but it's really just "no team at all".

*Part of Delmarva in Virginia is in the 40s for the Orioles, and the northernmost point in Virginia is at 30% for the Orioles.

A lot of that is due to the Nationals being relatively new in town.

The Colts moved to Indy in 1984 and it wasn't until Peyton Manning hit his prime in the 2000s that the Cots overtook the Bears as the most popular team in places like South Bend, Fort Wayne and Lafayette.

The Nationals recently winning a World Series didn’t move the needle much outside Nova. Much of the state is still a plurality of Yankee fans, with some Orioles, Nats, Red Sox, and Braves fans mixed in. Braves fans tend to be older. The Orioles do have a plurality on the eastern shore and, oddly, the northern neck (the peninsula between the Rappahanock and Potomac rivers). I have never once met a Giants fan in Richmond in the decade their AA team has been here. There might be a solid following of Oriole fans in Hampton Roads due to the Norfolk Tides being their AAA team, but there are so many transplants there due to the military and other factors that it’ll probably never be a plurality.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2022, 12:08:46 AM »


MLB’s black out map has a lot of really illogical claims on it.


Especially when you consider that the distribution of teams' channels doesn't match up with the blackout map. The White Sox blackout area includes places like Indianapolis, Fort Wayne and Des Moines that don't carry their channel. You can't watch their games by buying MLB Extra Innings or MLB.tv to protect channels that can't be seen there.

A couple of crazy ones:

The Reds are blacked out in almost half of North Carolina.  I understand the I-74 connection, but that’s ridiculous.  :sombrero:

The Pirates are blacked out in Matamoras, PA.  Matamoras is in the NYC market and is actually closer to both Baltimore and Boston than Pittsburgh. 
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2022, 03:30:48 AM »

One place where state lines do matter is Virginia.  The ENTIRE state is, umm, Commanders fans.  All the way to the tip of Lee County, eight and a half hours away, but as soon as you cross out of Virginia, more geographically logical fandom resumes. 

Much closer to Cincy, Nashville, Charlotte, and probably even Atlanta, than DC -- and in the Knoxville television market, which I'm guessing shows Titans' games.

I had heard the now-Commanders poured a lot of marketing into the South in their early days as the de facto team of the region. Expansion later brought the Falcons and Saints, and much later the Panthers, but Washington having a head start probably helped.

The other big thing, of course, is people like winners. Washington historically has given people a lot more to cheer about than the teams in those other cities you noted, even 30 years after their most recent Super Bowl win. I suspect it's one reason why the Cardinals still have such a small footprint after 35 years in the desert - their regional "competition" such as the Broncos and Cowboys have done a lot more winning in that 35 years than Arizona has.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2022, 06:59:36 AM »

We don't have blackout areas. In fact, quite the opposite - local radio is usually the place to find your team's game live.

There's a time slot blackout that no Saturday 3pm soccer games can be shown live.

There is local TV, but not really. There's little local programming (mostly news), and the regions are all rather large.

----

Surrey has a rep for having a lot of Man U supporters, with the joke when they lose in London being "oh well, at least the fans don't have far to travel home".

That's about it for football - big teams have a wide geographic spread, but typically there's a link (family, migration, etc), rather than brazen glory hunting. This is why Surrey stands out.

----

Rugby has seen some teams stadium hop every decade or so as contracts need  and so leave pockets of fans behind by the old stadium. It's not the same as a franchise move, and more due to finding the best offer from a soccer club to use their stadium.

Eg London Irish moved from West London to Reading. Not a huge distance but left an area with a few teams to an area with a lot of people who'd travel the hour or so to those West London teams. The journey is just flipped around. It's like New York's football teams playing at the Meadowlands, except - with the UK's smaller geography and much more dense scattering of teams, this could have been seen like MK Dons. It wasn't, but it could have been. In UK sporting geography, London Irish weren't local to London for the 20 years they played in Reading (they have recently returned to West London, playing at Brentford's new stadium).

And London Wasps (dropping the London in the process) moved from QPR's stadium to Wycombe's in a similar move, before moving to Coventry's, which is a much bigger move geographically and leaves their formerly local fans as far away - just has happens when a US franchise moves (and unlike MK Dons, they didn't hate the club for moving north and abandon it).
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2022, 10:20:56 AM »

After the Sonics left Seattle, I suspect that their former fans now root for anyone else to beat the now-Thunder. It's sort of a domino effect in the Pacific Northwest, as in 2001, the Grizzlies left Vancouver for Memphis, and their jilted fans began to adopt the Sonics as their home team until they too relocated to Oklahoma City. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow they became Lakers fans because of their prestige on the West Coast; also, the Blazers are Portland's team and a former Sonics rival, so that counts them out. Same thing with the Clippers, Kings and Warriors in their respective markets.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2022, 10:35:09 AM »

One place where state lines do matter is Virginia.  The ENTIRE state is, umm, Commanders fans.  All the way to the tip of Lee County, eight and a half hours away, but as soon as you cross out of Virginia, more geographically logical fandom resumes. 

Much closer to Cincy, Nashville, Charlotte, and probably even Atlanta, than DC -- and in the Knoxville television market, which I'm guessing shows Titans' games.

I had heard the now-Commanders poured a lot of marketing into the South in their early days as the de facto team of the region. Expansion later brought the Falcons and Saints, and much later the Panthers, but Washington having a head start probably helped.
Correct - and the end of the fight song, "fight for old DC," used to be "fight for old Dixie."

ETA: Similarly, before the Braves moved to Atlanta, the Cardinals were THE MLB franchise for the South.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 10:37:56 AM by abefroman329 »
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abefroman329

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2022, 10:36:52 AM »

Back when Chicago had two football teams, the Bears played at Wrigley Field and the Cardinals as Comiskey Park. As there is now with the Cubs and Sox, there was a big northside/southside rivalry between the Bears and Cardinals. When the Cardinals left for St. Louis, a lot of their fans became Packers fans because rooting for the Bears just wasn't an option.
My dad stayed a Cardinals fan when they moved to St. Louis and, later, Phoenix (Arizona).

One big reason Cardinals fans didn't simply become Bears fans: George Halas effectively drove the team out of town because he thought that would be the cure to Bears games being blacked out.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2022, 10:46:01 AM »

Also, you're looking too strongly at state lines.

Also looking too strongly at pro teams.

Where I grew up in northwestern Kansas (Atwood, Rawlins County), football reigned supreme.  During high school football season, in fact, Pizza Hut closed down for a few hours on Friday nights—because everyone in town was at the game, so nobody was left to buy pizza.  Then they'd re-open after the game.

As for the NFL, there were both Chiefs fans and Broncos fans in town.  But there were wa-a-a-ay more Jayhawks and Wildcats fans, and even a decently large number of Cornhuskers fans.

Similarly, when I lived in southern Illinois (Herrin, Williamson County), there were both Saint Louis fans and Chicago fans, but more people seemed to be SIU fans than anything else.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2022, 11:04:35 AM »

One place where state lines do matter is Virginia.  The ENTIRE state is, umm, Commanders fans.  All the way to the tip of Lee County, eight and a half hours away, but as soon as you cross out of Virginia, more geographically logical fandom resumes. 

Much closer to Cincy, Nashville, Charlotte, and probably even Atlanta, than DC -- and in the Knoxville television market, which I'm guessing shows Titans' games.

I had heard the now-Commanders poured a lot of marketing into the South in their early days as the de facto team of the region. Expansion later brought the Falcons and Saints, and much later the Panthers, but Washington having a head start probably helped.

The other big thing, of course, is people like winners. Washington historically has given people a lot more to cheer about than the teams in those other cities you noted, even 30 years after their most recent Super Bowl win. I suspect it's one reason why the Cardinals still have such a small footprint after 35 years in the desert - their regional "competition" such as the Broncos and Cowboys have done a lot more winning in that 35 years than Arizona has.

Could be. Dale Jr. is a pretty prominent Redskins fan, and I doubt that's because of the Joe Gibbs connection to NASCAR.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2022, 10:44:21 PM »

I've lived in Michigan for most of my life and was born here but I am a Chicago sports fan. I've always been that way and don't see any reason to stop being a Chicago fan. It started with the White Sox and I'm not sure why I liked the Sox over anyone else, then I started liking Frank Thomas and he became my favorite player so I stayed with them. I've also become friends with a former White Sox player (Jack McDowell) which is pretty cool. Then the Bulls started beating the Pistons and I liked Jordan but haven't watched an NBA game in over 20 years I'm a hockey fan not a basketball fan. The Hawks were harder to start following due to Dollar Bill's way of blacking out home games back in the day, his son is doing a much better job running the team. The Bears, I loved rooting for them against the Lions and Packers so they instantly became my favorite team. The only Detroit team I really don't hate or anything is the Red Wings.

One thing I have noticed about the Detroit market is that there has been a lot of people who follow the Packers in football after the Brett Farve era.  Usually those same people still tend to follow the rest of the Detroit teams if they are still into the big four sports.  That can probably be chalked up to the Lions never really doing anything with players like Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford.
There are a lot of Packers fans in the Upper Peninsula and it seems like they are spread out pretty good too all over. I just hate that team they are just annoying. What's funny is that I have a Packers coffee mug but I got it when I went through the Packers Hall Of Fame about 30 years ago and didn't think anything of getting a coffee mug with a Packers logo on it. I'm surprised I didn't smash it by now or something lol. I remember when Wayne Fontes was the coach of the Lions, the guy stuck around long enough to be both the winningest and losingest coach in team history. They were actually good some years but they always seemed to lack a good QB, the best they did was like Scott Mitchell lol but they also had Andre Ware and Rodney Pete who were suppose to be good.

I have a cousin from here that lives in Cleveland now and he likes the Guardians (it feels stupid calling them that) and the Lions. I'm thinking well the Browns are about the same as the Lions so what difference does that really make? You are going to have hardship either way.

The Red Wings were always the easiest Detroit sports team to like due to them constantly being the playoffs for that 25 year span, now they are on a playoff drought and no one seems to care too much about them right now. Too bad because they play in a nice arena now. The Pistons lol does anyone really care about them at all? I think they might be the least cared about Detroit sports team. They moved from Auburn Hills to downtown and no one seemed to care that the Palace is now demolished.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2022, 01:48:18 AM »

I've lived in Michigan for most of my life and was born here but I am a Chicago sports fan. I've always been that way and don't see any reason to stop being a Chicago fan. It started with the White Sox and I'm not sure why I liked the Sox over anyone else, then I started liking Frank Thomas and he became my favorite player so I stayed with them. I've also become friends with a former White Sox player (Jack McDowell) which is pretty cool. Then the Bulls started beating the Pistons and I liked Jordan but haven't watched an NBA game in over 20 years I'm a hockey fan not a basketball fan. The Hawks were harder to start following due to Dollar Bill's way of blacking out home games back in the day, his son is doing a much better job running the team. The Bears, I loved rooting for them against the Lions and Packers so they instantly became my favorite team. The only Detroit team I really don't hate or anything is the Red Wings.

One thing I have noticed about the Detroit market is that there has been a lot of people who follow the Packers in football after the Brett Farve era.  Usually those same people still tend to follow the rest of the Detroit teams if they are still into the big four sports.  That can probably be chalked up to the Lions never really doing anything with players like Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford.

It's probably also to annoy local Lions fans. Some of these people picked the Packers because they're the most successful "rival" team of the Lions, and can taunt them when Green Bay beats Detroit 9 out of 10 times they play.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 01:50:38 AM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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US 89

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2022, 10:20:23 AM »

In northern Utah:

We have basketball (Jazz) and soccer (RSL). Those are pretty well supported - especially the Jazz, who are actually a decent team despite their inability to ever get anywhere in the playoffs.

Football - Broncos are probably the biggest name around here, but there is also definitely a 49ers contingent. Nobody cares about the Cardinals unless you go down to maybe St George or someplace else near the Arizona line, even though Phoenix is a little closer than the Bay Area.

Baseball - actually isn’t super popular in these parts. There’s a nonzero Rockies following that probably would be bigger if they were better…but they’re not, so they’re probably on equal footing with the nationally popular teams (Dodgers especially, Yankees, Red Sox).

Hockey - nobody cares. You might find a few Vegas Golden Knights fans but they will disappear once the novelty factor wears off.

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2022, 10:43:55 AM »

When I was in greater Raleigh, nobody seemed to care that technically it was part of the Hornets' and Panthers' home market, unless their team was playing one of them and the game was blacked out.

The Hurricanes had just come over from Greensboro, and they tended to draw a bigger crowd when a team from the Northeast was visiting.  Apparently that was typical for Southeast Division NHL teams at the time.
We only get Panthers games for NFL. I am a Buffalo Bills fan and every single time I have to go to this site to see if the Bills will be broadcasts. 9 chances out of ten, the game is on some shady site like NFLBite (powered by reddit) and usually has scam links or deceitful links that AARoads won't let me post due to a no spam policy. This season I am getting NFL Game Pass, which is now $9.99 a month (compared to $100 a year)
For NCAA teams, we don't have ACC network, which is usually via ESPN, in which is the provider for all college games. I usually have to skip these games due to the game not being included in my subscription (We have Spectrum TV Choice, and they won't let you pick ACC Network). So we have to either get Sling, or some other service that costs $70 a month.
For all other games including pro basketball, hockey, and baseball, they are usually provided via Bally Sports (formerly Fox Sports South), and they only let you watch the games in the Carolinas, such as the Atlanta Braves for baseball, the Charlotte Hornets for basketball. and the Carolina Hurricanes for hockey.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2022, 02:25:00 PM »

I remember after the football Cards moved to Arizona, a lot of St Louis people became fans of other football teams. I was already a Packers fan (grew up there) and quite a few locals also became Packers fans. Others became fans of the Chiefs, Bears, and Colts. While some became Rams fans for the 20 years they carpetbagged the city, most stayed with their new team.

I don't recall any large following of any specific NBA team when I lived there. Quite a few Bulls fans during the Jordan years, but NBA fans in St Louis seemed to follow specific players more than teams.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2022, 02:50:14 PM »


If you live in Ohio, are you most likely a Cleveland fan or Cincinnati fan?  Are there Cavaliers fan in or near the Cincinnati area seeing as they don't have an NBA team?


For both NFL and MLB, it's pretty much split north/south along the I-70 corridor.  Columbus is extremely mixed.  Northwest Ohio has some Detroit fans, and far eastern Ohio has some Pittsburgh fans.

As far as the NBA goes, most Cincinnatians I know don't have a strong preferred team.  They tend to follow players.  College basketball is a different story, with strong allegiances to Xavier, UC, and UK.
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2022, 03:05:55 PM »

Charleston is about as free agent of a market as there is on the East Coast.

Other than South Carolina and Clemson football and baseball there is no plurality from any in-state team.

College sports (college football by far #1 here): Half and half between Clemson and South Carolina among those who follow. Bandwagoners flop depending on who is good. Georgia is #3, then Ohio State and Michigan. More OSU/Michigan fans than the 2 local schools, Citadel and Charleston Southern.

Really any of the B1G, SEC or ACC schools has a following here. Even Wisconsin has a bar here for watch parties.

College hoops is North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, then probably College of Charleston. UNC played at CofC this year and 1/3 of the arena rooted for UNC.

NFL: No plurality. I'd say Panthers are most popular but probably 15 teams have significant fan bases due to the military and transplants. Steelers and Cowboys are probably 2 and 3 with Falcons and Washington popular as well. Atlanta games are broadcast on radio.

MLB: Braves bandwagon got big here during World Series but they are definite #1 here and have been since they moved to Atlanta. Large Yankees and Red Sox fan bases as well. Have seen stuff from nearly every MLB team at local minor league games.

NHL: Mostly Capitals, Penguins, Bruins, Rangers fans. Canes in Raleigh probably #5 or so but growing. Local minor league team is Caps affiliate. Tons of transplants here and you see people from most of the American teams.

NBA: Probably below high school sports locally in popularity. People only follow during playoffs. Not many Hornets fans at all. LeBron and Shaq played a preseason game for the Cavs against the Bobcats a few years back, sold out 11,500 and 11,000 were there to see LeBron.

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2022, 03:19:11 PM »

When I lived in Superior:

NFL: The state line was a hard divide between Vikings and Packers. When it came to being behind enemy lines, more Packers fans on the MN side than Vikings fans on the WI side.

MLB: The state line is much less of a hard divide. Not a huge baseball market, but split Packers/Twins loyalties were more numerous on the Superior side, though Milwaukee probably had a slight edge over Minnesota in Superior. Zero Brewers fans on the Minnesota side.

NHL: Wild, with a few Detroit fans scattered in.

NBA: No one cares.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 05:42:24 PM by TheHighwayMan394 »
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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2022, 10:57:59 PM »

Charleston is about as free agent of a market as there is on the East Coast.

Other than South Carolina and Clemson football and baseball there is no plurality from any in-state team.

College sports (college football by far #1 here): Half and half between Clemson and South Carolina among those who follow. Bandwagoners flop depending on who is good. Georgia is #3, then Ohio State and Michigan. More OSU/Michigan fans than the 2 local schools, Citadel and Charleston Southern.

Really any of the B1G, SEC or ACC schools has a following here. Even Wisconsin has a bar here for watch parties.

College hoops is North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, then probably College of Charleston. UNC played at CofC this year and 1/3 of the arena rooted for UNC.

NFL: No plurality. I'd say Panthers are most popular but probably 15 teams have significant fan bases due to the military and transplants. Steelers and Cowboys are probably 2 and 3 with Falcons and Washington popular as well. Atlanta games are broadcast on radio.

MLB: Braves bandwagon got big here during World Series but they are definite #1 here and have been since they moved to Atlanta. Large Yankees and Red Sox fan bases as well. Have seen stuff from nearly every MLB team at local minor league games.

NHL: Mostly Capitals, Penguins, Bruins, Rangers fans. Canes in Raleigh probably #5 or so but growing. Local minor league team is Caps affiliate. Tons of transplants here and you see people from most of the American teams.

NBA: Probably below high school sports locally in popularity. People only follow during playoffs. Not many Hornets fans at all. LeBron and Shaq played a preseason game for the Cavs against the Bobcats a few years back, sold out 11,500 and 11,000 were there to see LeBron.

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Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2022, 11:05:55 PM »

Charleston is about as free agent of a market as there is on the East Coast.

Other than South Carolina and Clemson football and baseball there is no plurality from any in-state team.

College sports (college football by far #1 here): Half and half between Clemson and South Carolina among those who follow. Bandwagoners flop depending on who is good. Georgia is #3, then Ohio State and Michigan. More OSU/Michigan fans than the 2 local schools, Citadel and Charleston Southern.

Really any of the B1G, SEC or ACC schools has a following here. Even Wisconsin has a bar here for watch parties.

College hoops is North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, then probably College of Charleston. UNC played at CofC this year and 1/3 of the arena rooted for UNC.

NFL: No plurality. I'd say Panthers are most popular but probably 15 teams have significant fan bases due to the military and transplants. Steelers and Cowboys are probably 2 and 3 with Falcons and Washington popular as well. Atlanta games are broadcast on radio.

MLB: Braves bandwagon got big here during World Series but they are definite #1 here and have been since they moved to Atlanta. Large Yankees and Red Sox fan bases as well. Have seen stuff from nearly every MLB team at local minor league games.

NHL: Mostly Capitals, Penguins, Bruins, Rangers fans. Canes in Raleigh probably #5 or so but growing. Local minor league team is Caps affiliate. Tons of transplants here and you see people from most of the American teams.

NBA: Probably below high school sports locally in popularity. People only follow during playoffs. Not many Hornets fans at all. LeBron and Shaq played a preseason game for the Cavs against the Bobcats a few years back, sold out 11,500 and 11,000 were there to see LeBron.

SM-G998U

Ditto for Myrtle Beach. Its hard to find someone older than 30 around here who was born in Myrtle Beach proper, so basically everyone has ties to other sports teams.

hbelkins

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    • Millennium Highway
Re: Fans that live outside the sports markets
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2022, 11:41:03 PM »


If you live in Ohio, are you most likely a Cleveland fan or Cincinnati fan?  Are there Cavaliers fan in or near the Cincinnati area seeing as they don't have an NBA team?


For both NFL and MLB, it's pretty much split north/south along the I-70 corridor.  Columbus is extremely mixed.  Northwest Ohio has some Detroit fans, and far eastern Ohio has some Pittsburgh fans.

As far as the NBA goes, most Cincinnatians I know don't have a strong preferred team.  They tend to follow players.  College basketball is a different story, with strong allegiances to Xavier, UC, and UK.

UK has reaches into a number of bordering states because of the media markets. Both the Cincinnati and Huntington/Charleston markets cover a large number of Kentucky counties. Back when the schools had their own broadcast TV networks for games that the networks didn't pick up, and before the advent of conference-specific cable/satellite channels, UK had affiliates in both places. In fact, there were several years that UK played a "home" game in Cincinnati the same way they used to do in Louisville. (SP Cook can attest to this statement for his market; I think the station was WSAZ.)

However, I do not know if Indiana University had an affiliate in Louisville or not.
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