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Author Topic: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65  (Read 8528 times)

sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2020, 03:03:20 PM »

the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.

That's likely for inventory purposes, with interstates addressed separately for funding and/or maintenance purposes.  However, that doesn't seem terribly pressing since even maintenance isn't covered under Interstate System aegis any more -- it's probably a "one facility/one designation" policy, and since the parkways were parsed out as 9000-series numbers, those likely cross-reference to the parkway name -- and are simply replaced by the Interstate number once that has been designated.  Nevertheless, it's likely the original (and later honorific) parkway name(s) have been etched into the public consciousness already regardless of numerical change or internal policy.
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jnewkirk77

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2020, 08:15:20 PM »

the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.

In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2020, 10:47:33 PM »

the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.

In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.
But the actual name of the parkway was originally Green River Parkway.  The placing of a politician's name was a more recent development.  I'm thinking some time in the early 90s.
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sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2020, 11:18:27 PM »

the only thing that upsets me is that the state has an official policy of removing the parkway name in exchange for an interstate designation.

In the case of the Natcher/I-165, there are now signs along the route marking it as the "William H. Natcher Expressway," so they're not dumping the name, just altering it.

Again, likely an inventory adjustment.  "Parkway" would specifically correspond to the 9000-series state designations for former toll facilities, while "expressway" takes in everything else in the limited-access category, including the parts of KY 841 that aren't overlaid with I-265, the US 60 Owensboro bypass, et. al.   It appears that once the process of conversion from parkway to Interstate has started, including interchange revision and any other activities intended to satisfy Interstate criteria, the term "expressway" replaces that of "parkway" in KY lexicon.     
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hbelkins

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2021, 04:05:30 PM »

Legislation has been filed in the current session of the legislature to change the name of the road from "Parkway" to "Expressway." I happen to know the sponsor of the bill, and asked him about it. He said this is something that's necessary to get the x65 designation. I asked him why, when none of the other parkways had their names changed, and he said it was something that had been worked out with Kentucky's federal congressional delegation (Presumably Comer, Guthrie, and Rogers, or some combination of the three).

It still doesn't make sense to me, but if that's what they have to do this time, I guess it's necessary.

I'll try to find the bill's text and post a link to it here.
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seicer

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2021, 04:56:04 PM »

Odd. To me, it's just a designation. The Parkways in Kentucky are unlike the Parkways in New York and are generally interstate compatible with a few exceptions.

sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2021, 08:04:29 PM »

Odd. To me, it's just a designation. The Parkways in Kentucky are unlike the Parkways in New York and are generally interstate compatible with a few exceptions.

The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes -- including several design and configuration features ("bowtie" combination interchanges/toll facilities, relatively narrow medians).  I would guess that Interstate compatibility would, in both states, be tied to, as KY has been doing on their I-69 and future I-165/169 sections, replacing the "bowties" with higher-speed interchanges and possibly adding/widening the shoulders to I-standard (often with K-rails in the median).  I'll guess that the approach to upgrading of the Cumberland would be functionally identical to the others underway or previously completed. 

As an aside, I still like the notion of a Henderson-to-London composite 2di facility rather than three separate 3di's -- although that would in itself create expectations that the corridor would be completed/upgraded in a timely fashion -- something DOT's have difficulty accomplishing these days for the "usual suspect" reasons previously explored in depth in this forum. 
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Roadsguy

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2021, 08:56:15 PM »

none of the other parkways had their names changed

Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?
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I-55

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2021, 10:28:01 PM »

none of the other parkways had their names changed

Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?

AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
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RoadWarrior56

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2021, 06:23:52 AM »

The original name of I-165/Natcher Parkway was "The Green River Parkway".  I don't think it was named for Congressman Natcher until sometime in the 90's.
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sprjus4

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2021, 07:57:17 AM »

none of the other parkways had their names changed

Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?

AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
I believe the portions designated I-69 had their names removed. Only the segments not apart of the I-69 system retain their original parkway names.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2021, 08:15:55 AM »

none of the other parkways had their names changed

Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?

AFAIK when I-165 was signed, the parkway was renamed to the William H Natcher Expressway. I assume that on the other parkways the now I-69 portions haven't been renamed because the remainder of the original parkway still exists. The Pennyrile and Ford Parkways still have segments that haven't become interstate, but will in the future. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
I believe the portions designated I-69 had their names removed. Only the segments not apart of the I-69 system retain their original parkway names.

Which I think makes no sense. There are plenty of other interstate routes that overlaid pre-existing highways, where the original name was kept alongside the interstate designation. Look at most of the tolled interstates for example: the Mass Pike, New York State Thruway, Kansas Turnpike, etc. And there are toll-free interstates that still keep their highway "name," like the I-94/Dan Ryan Expressway through Chicago.
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seicer

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2021, 08:26:11 AM »

When they were first built, that was the only designation. You didn't hop on an interstate; you got on the Green River Parkway, the Mountain Parkway, the Daniel Boone Parkway. For the most part, these parkway designations have been supplemented with route numbers or outright removed. There are some exceptions: KY Route 67 is more or less called the Industrial Parkway by locals and the media, as is the AA Highway. No one calls that KY Route 9 or 10, partly because of the numbering confusion early on in that highway's years.

hbelkins

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2021, 06:51:40 PM »

none of the other parkways had their names changed

Do the original parkway names still officially exist on the now-Interstate sections? As far as I know, all the former parkway signage was completely replaced with signage for the Interstates, leaving no trace of the original name visible on the road itself. Does KYTC still use the parkway names internally as the names of the roads?

Not for the portions taken over by I-69.

https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/State%20Primary%20Road%20System%20Lists/Hopkins.pdf
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2021, 03:00:40 PM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2021, 12:27:20 PM »

The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes

And if there were ever two states who know something about kissing cousins...
Hi-oh!
:-D

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sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2021, 12:45:09 PM »

The Kentucky parkways have always seemed, at least by my own impression, to be "kissing cousins" of the OK turnpikes

And if there were ever two states who know something about kissing cousins...
Hi-oh!
:-D



Hey now -- I've got family there (OK), and there's absolutely no record of cousin-with-cousin marriage or any less formalized version thereof.  Actually, that would be considered one of the more minor faux pas compared with some stuff that's gone down over the years (don't ask me to elaborate; I won't!).   :-/
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ctkatz

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2021, 10:48:36 PM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2021, 01:33:08 PM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.

The quick answer: business interest. I'm not a Kentuckian, so if I were not a road geek when I hear parkway, I'm thinking like many areas of the country. A blvd or surface arterial style route. Outside of the NYC area, most parkways I think about around the country are 45 mph or lower tree-lined arterials passing thru parkland or a wooded area. The GW Parkway in DC, a few in Ohio, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin, etc. The BW Parkway in Maryland is also an exception, but business interest needed those outside the state to identify that the WK, Pennyrile and others are interstate quality routes, not some tree-line surface road through the forest.
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sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2021, 01:03:17 AM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.

Well, before any of them were considered for Interstate inclusion and upgrades, most of them had already been renamed for various state political figures.  So the original names, while still remaining in the popular vernacular, had been officially superseded in any case.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2021, 10:09:31 AM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.

Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.
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sparker

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2021, 07:05:02 PM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.

Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.

Hell, IIRC Rogers is still alive and kicking and representing that part of KY!  That name isn't going anywhere soon; it has a more immediate impact and importance with the locals. 
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hbelkins

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2021, 11:37:32 PM »

I would have left the parkways that were converted to Interstates with their pre-Interstate parkway names. Or at least changed the parkway name to expressway.

I'm pretty sure knowing kentuckians that no matter what they do in frankfort or dc, it's still the pennyrile, purchase, western kentucky, and green river parkway. I honestly never understood the need to remove the names in order to officially designate an interstate.

Except perhaps the old Daniel Boone Parkway.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that renaming it after Hal Rogers has stuck with the locals.

Hell, IIRC Rogers is still alive and kicking and representing that part of KY!  That name isn't going anywhere soon; it has a more immediate impact and importance with the locals.

Actually, from what I gather around here, sentiment still runs high that the road should have kept its Daniel Boone name. I have even slipped up and called it the Daniel Boone Parkway when doing TV interviews.
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seicer

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Re: Cumberland Parkway: Say "bye" to I-66, "hi" to an I-x65
« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2021, 08:57:47 AM »

Locals generally call it either the Parkway or "the highway." You'll hear something like "take the highway to London" or "take the highway to Hazard." I remember being down in the Manchester/Hazard area frequently not long after the name change took place and people were insistent on calling it the Daniel Boone Parkway. It's a love/hate relationship with Hal Rogers it seems yet he gets reelected easily.

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Locals generally call it either the Parkway or "the highway." You'll hear something like "take the highway to London" or "take the highway to Hazard." I remember being down in the Manchester/Hazard area frequently not long after the name change took place and people were insistent on calling it the Daniel Boone Parkway. It's a love/hate relationship with Hal Rogers it seems yet he gets reelected easily.
Heh.  And US 23/460 is the "four-lane" and 80 coming west from it is STILL "New 80."

I think my relatives in Floyd County still call the parkway the Daniel Boone Parkway.  And, frankly, although he was a terrible guy, I have trouble with the name change myself.

Heck, my family was standing right in Fort Boonesborough when I started talking about bad things Boone did.  My cousin-in-law said, "Don't you come down here and start talking that way about our heroes."   She paused and then said with a smile, "But, yeah, I heard that, too."

Oh, and it's the Mountain Parkway.  No nicknames for that.  Funny thing is that my relatives up the hollers in Wheelwright or outside Prestonsburg (Abbott Creek) consider some areas along the Mountain Parkway the real land of scary hillbillies that'll shoot you if you come to their door and the like.
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