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Author Topic: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article  (Read 13980 times)

Life in Paradise

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2020, 01:29:14 PM »

Had officials been able to swing I-64 even further south through Evansville (would have saved the Lloyd "Expressway" from being built), you would have had more of a reason to pursue an upgraded US-50 through Illinois and Indiana.  With I-64 running where it is in Illinois, it doesn't make much sense there, although a four lane US-50 corridor through Southern Indiana towards Cincinnati would be nice (to help business like the Appalachian routes).
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Avalanchez71

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2021, 02:29:41 PM »

What a waste.  I-64 was built just to the south.  US 50 is sufficient.  Yes I have travelled this corridor.
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Revive 755

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2021, 10:44:21 PM »

^ Lebanon needs a bypass.  The Lebanon - Carlyle section gets a good amount of weekend traffic and could use more passing opportunities.
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2021, 09:16:11 AM »

^ Lebanon needs a bypass.  The Lebanon - Carlyle section gets a good amount of weekend traffic and could use more passing opportunities.

It will get it. It is in the new IDOT spending bill. The EIS has to be updated as well as the engineering.

Of question is how the bypass will end on the south side of town. Will it be a mound of dirt surrounded by 2 ramps, or a ground level 3 way stop.

The mound of dirt assumes they want to continue it west. A ground level signal says this is as good as it gets for the next 25 years.
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2021, 11:16:52 AM »

Ever find out what happened to Olney to Lawrenceville?
Considering it was bypassed by 62 when Lebanon bypass is done 91 of its 124 miles is some combination of 4 lane ROW full paved should or 4 lane segment. And Indiana is only studying 50 around 231.
IDOT could at minimal cost add some passing lanes between Lebanon and Carlyle.
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2021, 03:52:02 PM »

Ever find out what happened to Olney to Lawrenceville?
Considering it was bypassed by 62 when Lebanon bypass is done 91 of its 124 miles is some combination of 4 lane ROW full paved should or 4 lane segment. And Indiana is only studying 50 around 231.
IDOT could at minimal cost add some passing lanes between Lebanon and Carlyle.

As for Olney to Lawrenceville, I can only assume it lost the battle of politics. That IDOT region is quite large. Effingham has been a very, very noisy neighbor when it comes to getting road upgrades.

District 7 now includes Macon County (Decatur). So that Olney-Lawrenceville route falls further behind.

Population:
Olney - 8800
Lawrenceville - 4350
Vincennes - 17,304

Compared to:

Decatur - 70,700
Charleston - 21,900
Mattoon - 18,500
Effingham - 12,560

Olney has vacillated between 8600 and 9100 in population for the last 40 years and has stopped growing, remaining flat. Once the largest maker of bicycles outside Schwinn in Chicago (AMF Roadmaster) it now is the US base of Pacific Cycle which owns Schwinn and GT. The WalMart regional distribution center helped out. WalMart is the largest retailer of Pacific Cycle products. Why they are together.

Lawrenceville grew during the SE Illinois oil boom in 1910 and remained so when the Indian Oil Refinery opened. It peaked in the 1950's at 6500, but has been on a slow gradual decline ever since the refinery was sold to Texaco in the 1960's. The refinery is long gone and they are currently down to 4350.

Both towns had population peaks in the post war era and that drove IDOT at the time to improve the archaic US-50, (the former 2 lane IL-250 today) In fact both towns never had a depression in the 1930's.  The oil business was holding them up.

I just don't think the route will get a serious look at regional road building until the oil money returns. And its just not there right now. Olney is trying to get more manufacturing, but they are just too far from an interstate and don't have an adequate tax base. Most of their supplier traffic uses IL-33 to Effingham. Most of the finished products go US-50 in Indiana.
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2021, 05:50:23 PM »

I just wondered if you had heard specifically since your source in the 50 group told you it was but had no reason.
Illinois has a history of leaving projects in limbo US 20 would be an example but this one  began the outright cancellations under Rainer followed by 30 51 the Eastern Bypass and the 24 336 switch.
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Revive 755

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2021, 09:41:12 PM »

Of question is how the bypass will end on the south side of town. Will it be a mound of dirt surrounded by 2 ramps, or a ground level 3 way stop.

The mound of dirt assumes they want to continue it west. A ground level signal says this is as good as it gets for the next 25 years.

I wouldn't rule out a roundabout at the end given the number of those in the Collinsville District.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and get close to an ultimate buildout with the bypass continuing down to near the IL 4/I-64 interchange.
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2021, 10:48:26 PM »

I just wondered if you had heard specifically since your source in the 50 group told you it was but had no reason.
Illinois has a history of leaving projects in limbo US 20 would be an example but this one  began the outright cancellations under Rainer followed by 30 51 the Eastern Bypass and the 24 336 switch.

I haven't communicated with anyone in the US50 Coalition since that last update I gave.

I might be in the area later this summer and if so, I will ask around.

You will find that IDOT has probably studied more plans since 1975 than any that got built.
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2021, 11:01:39 PM »

Of question is how the bypass will end on the south side of town. Will it be a mound of dirt surrounded by 2 ramps, or a ground level 3 way stop.

The mound of dirt assumes they want to continue it west. A ground level signal says this is as good as it gets for the next 25 years.

I wouldn't rule out a roundabout at the end given the number of those in the Collinsville District.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and get close to an ultimate buildout with the bypass continuing down to near the IL 4/I-64 interchange.

Nothing would make US50 improve more than to connect Air Mobility Drive (IL-158) to the Lebanon Bypass at IL-4 south of town.

IDOT already owns all the land east of IL-4 back to Old US-50 at Summerfield.

The now deceased Mayor of Lebanon who was the political catalyst to get the bypass on the spending plan, also wanted a plan for IL-4 to bypass town on the east and intersect with the new US-50 but i don't think anyone bought into it.

Since IDOT has formally given up on IL-158 (FAS-1937) being a regional arterial perhaps it will get moved to IL-4 to support the growing airport in Mascoutah.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2021, 12:17:50 PM »

I think that the two-lane realignment between Lebanon and Carlyle should have included a bypass of Carlyle, and should not have terminated at IL 127. Obviously, no road could ever be built across the Carlyle Reservoir, but could a bypass of Carlyle be built today without too much destruction of existing homes and businesses (among other things)?
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2021, 09:49:36 PM »

The supplemental freeway route should have sliced right along the lake . I don't see that happening. Also I don't see IDOT every doing a South bypass when it dropped easier improvements in the route like Olney. Also under Blago they were going to 4 lane the Flora bypass. 
The easiest project is to add 2 lanes to Carlyle. I wonder if the old bridges are usable. They look pretty bad.
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2021, 10:17:03 PM »

Just checked there is the flood plain and wetland South of town. There is however with the Lebanon bypass a good volume case to add the lanes to 160.
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2021, 10:35:35 PM »

I think that the two-lane realignment between Lebanon and Carlyle should have included a bypass of Carlyle, and should not have terminated at IL 127. Obviously, no road could ever be built across the Carlyle Reservoir, but could a bypass of Carlyle be built today without too much destruction of existing homes and businesses (among other things)?

I have read the original 1972 EIS for the O'Fallon to Carlyle build out of US-50.

Much of the traffic projections was predicated on recreational traffic to Lake Carlyle, which was based on some numbers provided by the Corps of Engineers when it was built.

IL-127 also was seeing large traffic counts north of Carlyle. I would have a hard time trying to explain that today as so much small industry has disappeared in this area in the past 40-50 years. Even CSX has few online customers west of Salem on the parallel to US 50, Illinois Sub.

According to the last updated IDOT study, 2 routes around Carlyle were looked at.  The south bypass and the lower dam route.

The lower dam route was an extension of the current stub at IL-127 with a bridge immediately over the Kaskaskia River in front of the spillway. Cross over the existing ROW and run south until Huey where it would turn north to bypass it and stay just north or on top of the existing ROW. It would use existing ROW around Ferrin and then bypass Sandoval to the north and a large intersection with US-51 was planned there. With the US-51 bypass of Sandoval cancelled, this will not occur now.

The alternate route was a total south bypass that would begin at or around mile marker Clinton-17, run straight south. It would cross Old US 50 right by the WDLJ radio station tower and then turn east at or around Highline Road. An exit for IL-127 was planned and a bridge over the Kaskaskia River. There is a small bluff on the east bank there and would require the least amount of elevation. From there it would turn north and meet the other ROW plan west of Huey. In this plan the existing end of US-50 north of Caryle would become a stub to service the Lake Carlyle travelers and anyone wanting to reach IL-127 north.

While IDOT owns the land between IL-127 to about Sunrise Hill Road right in front of the dam, it will take away land from the Federally owned Spillway Recreation Area and also impinge on an old cemetery on Sunrise Hill. This is why I dont think this routing will ever get out of public hearings.

The south bypass is obviously more expensive and requires more land acquisition.

I think there is value for this route as far east as I-57 at Salem. Beyond that, forget it. Just not enough traffic.

 
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Revive 755

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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2021, 11:43:24 AM »

I think the 72 one was more of a corridor study inn the western part. I may have it but I recall it noted the 4 lane ROW but said it was hard to use for a freeway. . Some of those old studies were really more like feasibility studies than what we think of as EIS. I am thinking 67 and 1 as well.
West 50 had a feas. Study that led to the never finished EA.
I was once at an even now decades ago then Sec. Kirk Brown was bemoaning cooperation with IN and MO. For IN it was lack of coordination. . I asked 50 and 1 and he said he was thinking Illiana and airport but those too.
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2021, 11:48:08 AM »

I should add that long before the supplemental freeway system Illinois was working on the 50 corridor and in basically the same location 64 was proposed.
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ilpt4u

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2021, 01:57:57 PM »

I should add that long before the supplemental freeway system Illinois was working on the 50 corridor and in basically the same location 64 was proposed.
Sometimes I wonder if it would not have been better for I-64 to have taken the US 50/IL and US 150/IN route between St Louis and Louisville, as originally proposed. Of course, had it taken that route, better chances I-24 between Marion and St Louis (at least the Metro East/I-255) would have been built

I still like the one BGS in E St Louis that gives EB I-64 the control of Salem...what could have been...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 02:01:30 PM by ilpt4u »
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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2021, 05:40:51 PM »

I think you are right. Where is the BGS?
Though there is a study of the Southwest Route. They should have stuck to Murphysboro to Pickneyville. Big projects can really fall apart. Especially the route they want. Same distance as 24 64 and 127 64.
Another aside. First and only time anyone at IDOT recognized a Texas 4 lane. He said they have 4 lanes North of Pickneyville.
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ilpt4u

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2021, 05:56:29 PM »



Pretty sure it was at the RIRO for St Clair Ave in E St Louis for EB I-64. I think it has been replaced

Crediting billburmaster.com's page on I-64 in IL
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Revive 755

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3467

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2021, 10:26:40 PM »

I am thinking it's because US 50 is a concurrency...?
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ilpt4u

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2021, 10:43:36 PM »

I am thinking it's because US 50 is a concurrency...?
Not at this location, as US 50 joins I-255/the Beltway to get over to Missouri. Inside 255/at this point, there is no concurrency - just I-64

^ Found where it used to be in Streetview.
The new BGSs at this location use the Primary controls of Louisville for EB and St Louis for WB
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 10:50:12 PM by ilpt4u »
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edwaleni

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2021, 10:51:52 PM »

I did a quick Google Map mileage check from Effingham Illinois to Springfield Missouri.

If the car/truck goes through downtown (or can go through downtown depending on traffic conditions)

The difference is about 30-45m in favor of going I-70/I-44 over using I-57/US-50/I-64.

But if you don't/cant go through downtown St Louis and must use I-255 to reach I-44 the difference declines down to 15-20m.

If US-50 completed its bypasses from Salem west all the way to Air Mobility Drive (IL-158) to reach I-64, I estimate it would be a wash.

This might be a good alternate path to get trucks out of downtown St Louis for passthrough traffic and make good use of what US-50 is now at Jefferson Barracks.
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SkyPesos

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Re: A Little US-50 History in Southern Illinois -- Interesting Article
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2021, 11:13:47 PM »

I should add that long before the supplemental freeway system Illinois was working on the 50 corridor and in basically the same location 64 was proposed.
Sometimes I wonder if it would not have been better for I-64 to have taken the US 50/IL and US 150/IN route between St Louis and Louisville, as originally proposed. Of course, had it taken that route, better chances I-24 between Marion and St Louis (at least the Metro East/I-255) would have been built

I still like the one BGS in E St Louis that gives EB I-64 the control of Salem...what could have been...
If I-64 used US 50/US 150 in Indiana, I have a feeling that US 50 between the eastern 50/150 split and the I-275 interchange in Lawrenceburg would be at least a 4 lane expressway. Without an expressway US 50 between those two points, the I-64 routing wouldn't be as competitive in terms of time to the northern I-70/74 routing between St Louis and Cincy.

But with the roads they are today, I think IN 46 between I-69 in Bloomington and I-74 in Greensburg need an upgrade more than US 50 in Indiana, possibly even further west to Terre Haute. Columbus and Bloomington are larger cities than whatever is on US 50.
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