If You Could Teach Driver Ed, What Would You Want to Cover?

[agentsteel53]

If you are a horny 18-year-old heterosexual male and trying to handle your car safely at 70 MPH in LOS D traffic, you won't even notice the platoon of naked women lying just outside your cone of vision.

if you are feeling horny, you are more apt to be looking for naked women than wanting to handle your car safely.

[cpzilliacus]

I think this point also underscores something cpzilliacus said on Page 2 of this thread: driver's ed should teach how to navigate both with and without a sat-nav, and I would emphasize how to navigate without one. So many people seem dependent on the electronic aid and they need to remember that new roads and construction projects often mean that what the sat-nav tells you is not what you'll encounter out on the road.

Thank you.

The old left-side exit from I-495 to I-66 near me has been closed since September 2011 (it re-opened in November 2012 to serve only the HO/T lanes). Nevertheless, I still see people slowing abruptly in the left lane, then swerving wildly across four lanes of traffic to reach the new right-side exit. It's obvious they're relying solely on their sat-navs and paying absolutely no attention to the signs. When the HO/T lanes opened last fall, some of the complaints in the local media said things like, "How are drivers supposed to use these lanes when their GPS maps don't show them?" 

I know exactly what you are talking about and have seen the same behavior - there and also on the S.E. Freeway (I-695) eastbound approaching the 11th Street Bridge in Washington, D.C. 

I have seen what you describe, and in my opinion, that qualifies as reckless driving.

[hm insulators]

Leave the damn phone and similar devices alone!

[ilvny]

The use of turn signals, especially on highways and in parking lots
Obeying speed limits
The dangers of texting/talking on a cell phone while driving, including checking one's phone (I hate it when people do something stupid on the road because they're using a cell phone), not to use other electronic devices that take the driver's focus off the road
The importance of the driver and all passengers wearing seatbelts
The proper use and securing of child safety seats
Coming to a COMPLETE stop at a stop sign
Applying the brake the moment the driver ahead does to avoid collisions and motion sickness from frequent short stops
Focusing on the road and not turning your head to talk to passengers
How to use cruise/speed control safely
Defensive driving
Stopping for pedestrians (too many people don't let pedestrians cross even when there is enough time to stop safely)
Emergency preparedness (i.e. jump-starting, vehicle fire, escaping a vehicle filling with water, accident, etc.)
How to pass safely
When to use headlights and fog lights, using headlights in rain, snow, hail, and other inclement conditions, also in limited visibility conditions
Proper use of high beams
Basic vehicle maintenance
Advice for buying or leasing a vehicle
A passenger vehicle is not a toy or a racecar
How to maintain a safe following distance
How to be a safe passenger
Not overloading your trunk/cargo area
No sexual activity while driving

and...

What not to do at a stoplight 

[Avalanchez71]

speed limits (to the extent allowed by the first duty of driving, which is to avoid causing a hazardous condition).

I'd tell people "go the speed of traffic". 

speed limit reform is badly, badly needed in the US.  if it is well known, by everybody doing 78, that the enforced speed limit is 80, then why are we not stamping out SPEED LIMIT 80 signs three shifts a day? 

don't be that clown doing precisely 65 - even in the right lane! - causing people to have to pass you, thereby being a source of congestion.

Jake, much agreed.  I'm sick of self-appointed speed cops on the road who think it is their duty to make everyone obey an absurdly low speed limit on the freeway.

Once I hit the speed limit I have no obligation to move over to the right lane here in Tennessee.

[kphoger]

There's no law against "obstructing the flow of traffic" in Tennessee?

[vdeane]

Is it really an obstruction if you can just pass on the right (which would be perfectly legal without keep right except to pass, and is often legal but discouraged even with it)?

[kphoger]

The proper use and securing of child safety seats

This is something that would be very good idea to teach in driver's ed.  The way I learned the proper installation of a child's seat was to go to a fire station and have a fireman show me; with changing laws and technology, I'm sure what I learned is already out of date.

Not overloading your trunk/cargo area

Hey, now!  I'm quite fond of doing that.  For our upcoming trip to México, I've even figured out how to free up extra space in the rear of the minivan by securing luggage along the rear windows with ratchet straps.  OK, OK, I guess I can't argue with you, though...

No sexual activity while driving

Or that might just give high schoolers an idea they hadn't thought of yet.

Is it really an obstruction if you can just pass on the right (which would be perfectly legal without keep right except to pass, and is often legal but discouraged even with it)?

I'd say there's a difference between obstructing traffic and obstructing the flow of traffic.  By keeping in the left lane and making traffic pass you on the right, you become an obstruction to the pattern of flow, and also increase the amount of time required to pass–which, in turn, decreases the capacity of the highway.  See the illustration below, from www.slowertraffickeepright.com.



But, that seems to be a moot point.  The law in Tennessee (Title 55-8-115) only states vaguely that a vehicle "proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic" must keep right.  How that is defined is probably anybody's guess.

[agentsteel53]

that should be www.thegreencarshouldspeedup.com

[Avalanchez71]

There's no law against "obstructing the flow of traffic" in Tennessee?

Once you hit the speed limit no obligation to move exists.

[kphoger]

There's no law against "obstructing the flow of traffic" in Tennessee?

Once you hit the speed limit no obligation to move exists.

As far as I can tell, that's only true if "proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic" equals "proceeding at less than the legal speed limit".  While that might be the case in practice, I'd say the actual law does leave enough of a hole for left lane hogs to still be cited.  That is, if the "normal speed of traffic" is instead defined as the speed most people are driving, and most people happen to be speeding, then you could still both be going 2 mph over the speed limit and be obstructing the flow of traffic.



Back on topic, one more thing I would stress in driver's ed is this:  If you're stopped on the shoulder of a high-speed road (breakdown, pee break, speeding ticket, etc.), don't enter the travel lane at 4 mph.  Accelerate on the shoulder until you're closer to the speed of traffic before entering the travel lane.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Teach people that when they pull out onto a street, if there is traffic approaching them from behind, especially if that traffic is close, double-especially if that traffic is a truck, the only place their accelerator should be is on the boards.

[Avalanchez71]

There's no law against "obstructing the flow of traffic" in Tennessee?

Once you hit the speed limit no obligation to move exists.

As far as I can tell, that's only true if "proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic" equals "proceeding at less than the legal speed limit".  While that might be the case in practice, I'd say the actual law does leave enough of a hole for left lane hogs to still be cited.  That is, if the "normal speed of traffic" is instead defined as the speed most people are driving, and most people happen to be speeding, then you could still both be going 2 mph over the speed limit and be obstructing the flow of traffic.



Back on topic, one more thing I would stress in driver's ed is this:  If you're stopped on the shoulder of a high-speed road (breakdown, pee break, speeding ticket, etc.), don't enter the travel lane at 4 mph.  Accelerate on the shoulder until you're closer to the speed of traffic before entering the travel lane.

I read a Tennessee Supreme Court case on the matter.  I don't have it in front of me at the time; however, there is precedent for such a cite.  The problem is that the court said that the officer must take the speed limit into consideration.  The case in point is a little different.  A left lane hog was traveling at like 25 in a 35.  The officer testified and admitted in court that the real speed limit on the stretch of highway was really like 45 or that most vehicles traveling through this point did like 45.  The lower court struck the cite and the dope out.  However, the Supreme Court ruled that the vehicle need not impede traffic so that someone was at a stand still or causing one to stop as the lower court ruled but that traffic was merely impeded.  However; the court also stated that the officer must take certain factors into consideration.  One is the safety of the traffic flow and the other is the speed limit. 

Therefore the issue is clear as mud.  It does appear that once the speed limit is reached that there is no further obligation.  Tough luck for those wanting to travel at a speed greater than the limit.  However, the case did take into consideration that the speed of the flow of traffic was greater that the limit.  However, in this case the impeder and guy traveling with dope was doing well under the speed limit.   

[CoreySamson]

Very old thread but I wanted to offer my two cents on some things that should be taught in Driver's Ed:

- All different types of left turn signals and how they work (green ball, FYA, protected-only, and others)
- HAWKs
- Looking at the traffic two or three cars ahead (especially in cities) instead of just the car ahead of you so you have more time to react
- When to flash your headlights to communicate with other drivers
- Defensive driving; analyzing potential threats before they become threatening
- Looking both ways, even if you have a green light

[ran4sh]

In my experience, the most useful rule for signaling in a roundabout is to signal right when approaching your exit, and if you're using the first exit (usually the right turn), then have the signal on when entering the roundabout.

The rule about signaling left on approach to the roundabout when intending to take an exit for that direction, is generally useless to me because I focus on whether there is enough space in front of a car in the roundabout for me to enter the roundabout (i.e. I'm mostly looking left and not really straight ahead or to the right).

[allniter89]

I can't tell you how mad I get when people tailgate me when I drive the specific school zones. Where I'm at, there's a 25 MPH school zone within a 35 MPH zone along South Russell Street. God, that pisses me off when people do that.

But I love it when they pull out to pass me in an active school zone & get an expensive ticket. Geez, the cop sits in the median with all his emergency lights going & they still speed thru a school zone even when there are schools kids around.

[SkyPesos]

I would show a Crash_it video, and tell them to not do anything he does in the video.

[webny99]

-If someone is tailgating/following too closely, either speed up a bit or let them pass. Never brake check. It's idiotic, and can cause or escalate road rage. This is in contrast to following too closely, which can be annoying, but is not something the driver being followed should try to control. We all know who would be responsible if someone rear-ended you. There's a reason your windshield is bigger than your rearview mirror, and it's not so you can micro-manage the car behind you.

-Don't slow down when passing people, and then speed up when there's clear road ahead. This is extremely frustrating for people behind you, who have to slow down every time you pass someone, but then can't go fast enough to get past you when you're not.

-Learn to change lanes smoothly, and don't be afraid to do it frequently! The concept of keep right except to pass starts to fall apart when you don't use all the gaps in the rightmost lane, even if you do have to get back over to pass a truck in a minute or two. After overtaking someone, I generally ask myself "If I move right, will I be able to stay in the right lane for at least 15-20 seconds at my current speed?" If I think answer is yes, I move over.

[Hobart]

Honestly, I'd probably be very conventional, except for one thing.
I'd tell my students, "If you pull out in traffic, and the person you pull out in front of needs to slow down, you merged wrong."

This has happened to me so many times, someone pulls out in front of me and goes 20 in a 45. Someone merges onto I-355 in front of me and I'm stuck behind them going 50. I think we need to teach the next generation of drivers the importance of speed.

[sprjus4]

Honestly, I'd probably be very conventional, except for one thing.
I'd tell my students, "If you pull out in traffic, and the person you pull out in front of needs to slow down, you merged wrong."

This has happened to me so many times, someone pulls out in front of me and goes 20 in a 45. Someone merges onto I-355 in front of me and I'm stuck behind them going 50. I think we need to teach the next generation of drivers the importance of speed.

Yup. And that higher speed = bad is not true, and oftentimes is the opposite, especially on high speed facilities. There are many times where driving faster is safer, it all depends on the situation. Driving 55 mph on a 55 mph highway where it's designed for 70 mph and traffic is moving 70-75 mph is more hazardous. Of course, they'll never teach you this because it goes against the law. But maybe it should speak volumes about how poorly outdated the laws are. Oh wait... it doesn't. At least not in a lot of states.

[Max Rockatansky]

Proper use of shifting to lower gears on steep downhill grades as opposed to riding brakes.  Installation of snow chains also seems to be something particularly useful in my part of the world that nobody received instruction on.

[interstatefan990]

Indecisiveness can be just as dangerous as overdecisiveness.

[Alps]

Erroneous discussion removed, let's get this back to the subject line!