Montreal Border Crossing

[lordsutch]

The thing with NEXUS interviews (and I assume for Global Entry and SENTRI too) is that once you schedule an appointment, you can go in to the online booking system (GOES) regularly and check for an opening sooner.  I originally thought I'd have to make a separate trip to Buffalo to do the interview at Fort Erie, but I lucked out and benefitted from a cancellation on a day I planned to be in Toronto anyway.

The only downside of NEXUS is that you will have to go through two interviews.  My sense is that if the "other" country interview goes fine (you interview with the Canadian official first, if you're an American), though, you won't have any trouble with your country's unless there's some red flag the Canadians don't care about but the US does.  But anything seriously disqualifying would probably be screened out before the interview anyway–for example, the Canadians are notoriously anal about anything DUI-related on your record; if you haven't paid a massive rehabilitation fee to CBSA already, you're not even going to be admitted to the country in the first place.  The main thing I think they're looking for is explanations for why you want to be in the program and any sign of "shiftiness" that wouldn't show up on a background check.

[J N Winkler]

I guess my question is:  what are the payoff points for these processes?  How often do you have to cross the border annually before it becomes worth it to join any of these programs?

[agentsteel53]

I guess my question is:  what are the payoff points for these processes?  How often do you have to cross the border annually before it becomes worth it to join any of these programs?

I believe the entire hassle of SENTRI is less than even a single seven and one half hour border delay, which is becoming more and more commonplace at the San Diego crossings.

[mtantillo]

I guess my question is:  what are the payoff points for these processes?  How often do you have to cross the border annually before it becomes worth it to join any of these programs?

I believe the entire hassle of SENTRI is less than even a single seven and one half hour border delay, which is becoming more and more commonplace at the San Diego crossings.

What?? Oh my...is that recent as a result of sequestration?  I don't think I've ever heard of anything more than 3 hours in the past. 

I guess my question is:  what are the payoff points for these processes?  How often do you have to cross the border annually before it becomes worth it to join any of these programs?

Good question.  And like the topic of "extreme commutes", each individual has a different amount of how much they are willing to put up with.  I personally do not mind doing up front work to expedite my travels (the fact that I have 4 ETC transponders in my car's console is proof).  On average, I probably take as many international trips in one year as many business travelers do in the span of a couple of days. In other words, not much.  But if I'm taking my one roadtrip to Canada in a year on limited vacation time, I'd rather spend time exploring the sites (and roads) and not sitting in a border line-up.  Likewise, after getting off a 12-hour international flight from Beijing to JFK with a 12-hour time zone difference, the last thing I really feel like doing is waiting for an hour to clear immigration (we came in right behind Air France and Korean Air jumbo jets...and we were lucky, our tour guide is not a US Citizen and it took her two+ hours to get through). 

So conservatively, lets say I applied right before my birthday, so I only get 5 years of membership (apply right after your birthday, you'll get almost 6 years), and I take 1 trip across the land border each year (5 Canadian entries, 5 US entries), and enter the US once by plane each year (5 entries).  That's 15 expedited trips for $50 with NEXUS membership that includes Global Entry benefits, or $3.33 per trip.  To me, that is well worth it.  Sure, there is a little up front work involved, which will likely involve me taking a trip to Buffalo for the interview. But since I enjoy travel, I don't mind, and I look at it as an excuse to visit the Falls at an off-peak time of year.  Then add in the TSA Pre-check benefit...and its absolutely worth it for me. 

An added benefit to the Canadian economy...in the past I never would have thought of flying internationally through Canada, because clearing US and Canadian immigration control in Canadian airports can kill a lot of time and make one risk missing their connection.  As a Star Alliance frequent flier, I've typically looked at United and Lufthansa for US to Europe flights...typically connecting through a Star Alliance hub like Frankfurt.  But now Air Canada is suddently an appealing option since I can expedite my way through Toronto-Pearson or Montreal while connecting there...and I can depart from Reagan National instead of Dulles, the former is a lot more convenient to where I live. 

[agentsteel53]

What?? Oh my...is that recent as a result of sequestration?  I don't think I've ever heard of anything more than 3 hours in the past. 

August 5th, 2012, Otay Mesa.  end of the line at 9.45am, receiving inspection at 5.15pm.

[vdeane]

I've been debating about whether to get NEXUS after I graduate.  I don't fly though, and since I'm not sure where I'll be (though probably not as close to the border where I am now) I'm not sure how often I'd be crossing.

[corco]

I've heard multiple horror stories of people getting stuck at the Sonoyta/Lukeville crossing coming back from Rocky Point for 7-10 hours- it happens.

[agentsteel53]

I've heard multiple horror stories of people getting stuck at the Sonoyta/Lukeville crossing coming back from Rocky Point for 7-10 hours- it happens.

that one looked bad, but not awful, when I drove through Sonoyta last July.  are there just not a lot of open booths?

that said, I had a 25 minute wait at Nogales Mariposa several weeks ago.  not all the crossings are terrible.

[corco]

that one looked bad, but not awful, when I drove through Sonoyta last July.  are there just not a lot of open booths?

Was it a Sunday afternoon? That's when everybody comes back from Rocky Point and it becomes a disaster. Couple that with the American fear of driving in border area Mexico and the Californians use that crossing now too instead of going to Algodones or Mexicali (which is ridiculous because Mexicali might just be the safest town along the entire border at this point) and it's a disaster.

Which, side note, that fear is kind of blown out of proportion by people. I'll never forget when I was working at the resort in Tucson, I had a couple come up to me wondering if they should take I-10 to get from Tucson to San Diego instead of I-8 because they were afraid I-8 might be dangerous because it's close to Mexico. They very reluctantly believed me when I told them just to take I-8, but I have a hunch they took I-10 anyway just to be safe.

[agentsteel53]

Was it a Sunday afternoon? That's when everybody comes back from Rocky Point and it becomes a disaster.

was Sunday around 1pm, so probably not late enough to make it the "afternoon" quite yet.

I crossed that day at Mexicali East and it took me about one hour 45 minutes.  not too bad.

Couple that with the American fear of driving in border area Mexico and the Californians use that crossing now too instead of going to Algodones or Mexicali (which is ridiculous because Mexicali might just be the safest town along the entire border at this point) and it's a disaster.

I'm doing a Sonora trip in two weeks and I'm contemplating crossing in Naco!  I hope that's east enough to avoid the Caltards.

Which, side note, that fear is kind of blown out of proportion by people. I'll never forget when I was working at the resort in Tucson, I had a couple come up to me wondering if they should take I-10 to get from Tucson to San Diego instead of I-8 because they were afraid I-8 might be dangerous because it's close to Mexico. They very reluctantly believed me when I told them just to take I-8, but I have a hunch they took I-10 anyway just to be safe.

assholes.  you should have told them that anything south of I-80 is considered dangerous.

[mtantillo]

I've heard multiple horror stories of people getting stuck at the Sonoyta/Lukeville crossing coming back from Rocky Point for 7-10 hours- it happens.

If people really want to wait and are too dumb to take a detour, than be my guest.  As for me, I'd try to cross at Sasabe...least busy border crossing on the US/Mexican border, and the very next one to the east of Lukeville.  To put it in perspective, San Ysidro sees twice as many vehicles in a day as Sasabe sees in a year.  http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20111115arizona-border-outpost-sasabe.html

[corco]

Yeah but good luck getting from Sasabe to Rocky Point without 4WD- there's no direct road once you're in Mexico and that road is absolutely terrible from what I understand, deep ruts in places and ridiculously washboarded in others, and if there's actually a spot outside of Juarez that's dangerous from a safety standpoint, that's it. Lots of illegals and coyotes (both the person and the animal) use that road before crossing- you do not want to get stuck there.

There's a reason nobody uses that crossing, and believe it or not it has nothing to do with human stupidity- I'm usually first in line to blame people for being stupid, but this isn't one of those times.

(I just moved to Montana after two years in Tucson, btw)

[mtantillo]

Heh, just spent an hour Googling El Sasabe and Sasabe. I had no idea it was that bad! Still, Rocky Point to one of the Nogales crossings seems like a worthwhile detour on peak days at Lukeville.

[J N Winkler]

Heh, just spent an hour Googling El Sasabe and Sasabe. I had no idea it was that bad! Still, Rocky Point to one of the Nogales crossings seems like a worthwhile detour on peak days at Lukeville.

At all of the Arizona crossings delays are quite variable.  I have, for example, "crossed" at Lukeville with minimal delay.  In counterpoint to Jake's account of getting through at Mariposa with a very short wait, I have had a long wait (close to two hours) at Mariposa, which would have been much longer if I had not used battery failure as an excuse to jump the queue.  In an Arizona DOT report I skimmed some time ago, it was said that the agency wishes to expand Mariposa because it is subject to severe delays (especially on holiday weekends) and is an important transit point for fruits, vegetables, and other perishable goods between Mexico and the US.  Food has literally rotted while waiting to clear Customs at Mariposa, where 16-hour delays are not uncommon.

In the same report, Sasabe was identified as pretty much the only crossing for which some form of improvement was not considered necessary, largely because it does not have a paved through road connection on both sides of the border.  Even Douglas and Naco are considered occasionally problematic.  The DeConcini crossing (downtown Nogales) is considered so congested that Customs does not even attempt to process rail traffic anywhere near the main POE site--freight trains are waved through to a secondary facility at Rio Rico, seven miles north of the border, where they are gone through with a fine-tooth comb.  They do have to cross the border gate at a walking pace, so long trains essentially cut Nogales in half and create problems with emergency response.

(BTW, Mike, thank you for your post upthread laying out the circumstances under which joining the trusted-traveler programs pays off for the ordinary tourist.)

[Dr Frankenstein]

The benefit of NEXUS is just less hassle and faster processing and, in some case, dedicated lanes. I don't think that you need to be a frequent crosser to get it (although if you cross less than once a year, you might as well not waste your money on that.) I cross about 15 times a year and, although I try to not consider the border as a block of sorts when I plan my travels, it gets kind of annoying. Although I have really nothing to hide, it gets you less questions and much lesser chances of getting searched, which in the end reduces the risk of losing precious time on a long road trip. One of my most recent crossings involved an argument with an especially condescending CBP agent in Detroit about how dangerous the city is, and it's what made me take the decision to enroll to NEXUS. (A lengthy, irritating "conversation" with a presumably PMSed lady in North Troy two years ago comes to mind, too...)

Mike, Landsowne does look like an interesting option, albeit far. But if they're open on weekends, I'll consider it. And yes, I'll want the iris scan. It might be useful in the future, even though I have never flown yet.

[realjd]

I guess my question is:  what are the payoff points for these processes?  How often do you have to cross the border annually before it becomes worth it to join any of these programs?

Once IMO. The first time I skipped an hour immigration line at the ATL airport made the $100 for GE and hassle with the interview worth it. Plus, TSA PreCheck makes air travel MUCH nicer. Several of my coworkers who never travel internationally have gotten GE just for PreCheck, but living near two GE interview locations (MCO and SFB) makes it easier for us where I live.

[Dr Frankenstein]

Alright, an update for those interested.

28 Feb: Application for NEXUS sent.
22 Mar: Conditional Approval Notification received. Interview booked for YUL.
17 Apr: Interview at YUL, early afternoon. I must have been lucky, as 1½ week before the interview, the place was booked well into July.

Arrived at the airport during their lunch break, eventually made it in after someone else and took a number at 1 PM (interview is at 1:20 PM.) My number was called and I gave my notification, passport and driver's license and went back in the waiting room for barely 5 minutes before being called for my Canadian interview.

The Canadian agent greeted me and basically explained the rules of the program, how to cross and such, then took an iris scan (used by the airport kiosks). No questions asked. Back in the waiting room waiting for the U.S. interview... oh. already.

To sum it up: "I assume you mostly cross for vacation," to which I answered "Yes, that and skiing in New England". - "Right, I see you're a former ski instructor" (the application form asks you to list your former jobs). He explained the rules, took a photo with his webcam then took my fingerprints and told me I would receive the card in about three weeks.

23 Apr: Envelope from Champlain NY with a card in it in my mailbox. Yup, less than a week after the interview.

I didn't get to use it alone or in a dedicated lane yet, but it did work for crossing into Derby Line with a friend.

[agentsteel53]

Yeah but good luck getting from Sasabe to Rocky Point without 4WD- there's no direct road once you're in Mexico and that road is absolutely terrible from what I understand, deep ruts in places and ridiculously washboarded in others, and if there's actually a spot outside of Juarez that's dangerous from a safety standpoint, that's it. Lots of illegals and coyotes (both the person and the animal) use that road before crossing- you do not want to get stuck there.

I had not seen this post before driving down there at the end of March.  having not had success finding some good tequila in Imuris or Nogales a few hours before, due to the shops not being open early on Sunday morning, I decided to head down to Sasabe.  I had assumed that Sasabe was similar to Naco - a dusty little town on the Mexican side of the border.  I had crossed into Naco on foot before, for lunch and a bottle of tequila, and found it to be safe, quiet and friendly.

I drove down to the border at Sasabe, looking for a place to park and walk across, and was stopped by US customs at the last possible turnaround point.  when I explained the purpose for my trip, they told me that there is no tourism, no tequila, nothing but lots of crime.  They recommended that I turn around, so I did.  I was asked a few brief questions, and they visually inspected my passport and green card, without entering it into the computer.  no complaints on my part; they were professional and friendly.  I was at the border for maybe 10 minutes total.

(as an addendum, my crossing at Nogales Mariposa was 17 minutes of waiting in line, and another 14 minutes of primary and secondary inspection, thanks to all the camping equipment in my trunk.  Sunday morning around 9.)

[Alps]

Alright, an update for those interested.

28 Feb: Application for NEXUS sent.
22 Mar: Conditional Approval Notification received. Interview booked for YUL.
17 Apr: Interview at YUL, early afternoon. I must have been lucky, as 1½ week before the interview, the place was booked well into July.

Arrived at the airport during their lunch break, eventually made it in after someone else and took a number at 1 PM (interview is at 1:20 PM.) My number was called and I gave my notification, passport and driver's license and went back in the waiting room for barely 5 minutes before being called for my Canadian interview.

The Canadian agent greeted me and basically explained the rules of the program, how to cross and such, then took an iris scan (used by the airport kiosks). No questions asked. Back in the waiting room waiting for the U.S. interview... oh. already.

To sum it up: "I assume you mostly cross for vacation," to which I answered "Yes, that and skiing in New England". - "Right, I see you're a former ski instructor" (the application form asks you to list your former jobs). He explained the rules, took a photo with his webcam then took my fingerprints and told me I would receive the card in about three weeks.

23 Apr: Envelope from Champlain NY with a card in it in my mailbox. Yup, less than a week after the interview.

I didn't get to use it alone or in a dedicated lane yet, but it did work for crossing into Derby Line with a friend.

please take me to niagara falls

[corco]

I drove down to the border at Sasabe, looking for a place to park and walk across, and was stopped by US customs at the last possible turnaround point.  when I explained the purpose for my trip, they told me that there is no tourism, no tequila, nothing but lots of crime.  They recommended that I turn around, so I did.  I was asked a few brief questions, and they visually inspected my passport and green card, without entering it into the computer.  no complaints on my part; they were professional and friendly.  I was at the border for maybe 10 minutes total.

That's crazy- I hadn't heard that CBP was actively discouraging people from going down there, just that going down there was a bad idea. When I clinched SR 286 last November I was followed down by a CBP vehicle almost all the way to the border even though I was going 2 under the speed limit hoping I'd be passed and did get more thoroughly checked by CBP at the checkpoint heading back north than I have at any other checkpoint (nothing major, they just wanted me to roll down my rear windows and asked questions about why I was down there instead of just where I was going/coming from).

[Dr Frankenstein]

please take me to niagara falls

You'll still need a Nexus card to be with me on the Whirlpool Bridge, or I'll lose mine. Plus, I don't even have the prepaid toll thing on mine.

[agentsteel53]

That's crazy- I hadn't heard that CBP was actively discouraging people from going down there, just that going down there was a bad idea.

I wasn't actively discouraged.  basically, I was told by CBP that it was a bad idea, so I voluntarily decided to alter my own plans.  I did not have any purpose other than to acquire a bottle of tequila, so if that was not gonna be happening...

had I wanted to go down there to take photos, I'll bet they would have told me "be careful" and let me through.

When I clinched SR 286 last November I was followed down by a CBP vehicle almost all the way to the border even though I was going 2 under the speed limit hoping I'd be passed

I saw plenty of CBP by the side of the road, but was not followed at all.  interestingly, on the way up I saw a tiny car with Mexico plates.  I assume they were from the town of Sasabe itself, if the road from Altar or Caborca is as bad as is claimed.

and did get more thoroughly checked by CBP at the checkpoint heading back north than I have at any other checkpoint (nothing major, they just wanted me to roll down my rear windows and asked questions about why I was down there instead of just where I was going/coming from).

I was just asked to show my green card, and then no further questions.  so I bet the officers at the actual border radioed up "the green-card holder in the silver Taurus is harmless".

[texaskdog]

always easier to get into Canada than back into the US, even before 9/11, even as an American. 

[Brandon]

always easier to get into Canada than back into the US, even before 9/11, even as an American. 

Yeah, there's not so nice things I can say about US customs.  The nicest I can say is that they're not very welcoming.

[vdeane]

Oddly enough I've never had trouble with US customs.  One time traveling back with a group, everyone else was amazed by how fast we were cleared!

please take me to niagara falls

You'll still need a Nexus card to be with me on the Whirlpool Bridge, or I'll lose mine. Plus, I don't even have the prepaid toll thing on mine.

One question I've always had is if it's would be considered OK to fudge a clinch of NY 182; while I will often fudge roads that end at the border, I don't usually fudge bridges.  Then again, if/when I join NEXUS, I probably would enroll in the toll thing since the Peace and Whirlpool Bridges would be the most convenient crossing points for heading west, and traffic often backs up onto the Peace Bridge, limiting the effectiveness of NEXUS if it's busy.