I was supervising a check of HOV utilization on I-66 in Arlington County, Virginia that morning.
We knew something was wrong when we started seeing an unendeing stream of emergency vehicles headed east on I-66 in the direction of the Pentagon, especially when those vehicles were coming from as far away as Washington Dulles International Airport and Montgomery County, Maryland.
I was at my office in downtown DC at 13th & G Streets, about three blocks from the White House. After the Pentagon was hit we were all naturally concerned, but I saw little point in racing to head home because the streets were gridlocked. You know the scene in the movie Independence Day where the alien spacecraft appears over New York and the city streets instantly come to gridlock? That's how 9-11 was downtown except there weren't all the rear-endings.
Called my cousin who lives in the Red Bank area of New Jersey. Her husband worked across the street from One World Trade Center and none of us could reach him. Turned out he had taken the day off to play golf with a friend. One of our aunts was stuck on the subway under the East River for over two hours. One my mother's cousins was in one of the Twin Towners but made it out OK. She had also been there when the bomb went off some years earlier and she has sworn never to enter the new building because she figures she's used up her luck.
Left work around 1:30 when the traffic died down and took a roundabout way home because my normal route on I-395 went right past the Pentagon and I assumed it might be blocked with emergency vehicles (turned out it wasn't, but who knew).
Got home and felt lost as to what to do for the day. It was a beautiful sunny day (very much like today, actually.....it's 63°F outside as I type this), so I went for a walk around the lake near our house and that's when the eerie silence struck me. No aircraft flying over. We sometimes get planes heading to Reagan Airport if they're approaching from the south, but there was no aircraft noise at all that day with US airspace shut down and it was a really weird sensation.
Elementary school, grade 6. Learned it when some students came back from lunch at home. "Oh, a plane crashed into the twin towers in New York." Didn't know those, didn't make a big deal out of it, until I came back home and Pokémon was cancelled. I then realized it was important.
Just to avoid repetition -- something like this thread has showed up around many recent 9/11 anniversaries -- my comments are at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3468.25 near the bottom of the page.
I was at work in a warehouse, in my boss's office. The janitor was in there, and we were chatting for a bit. As he was leaving, he said, 'By the way, did you hear they bombed the twin towers and the Pentagon?' and walked out of the room. That was kind of weird. I ended up being the one to share the news with my coworkers. We had the news on the radio, and then eventually the whole company gathered in the chapel to watch TV coverage on the projector and to pray.
My dad and I were planning a trip in December. I watched the price of plane tickets take a nose dive, but I foolishly kept waiting to see if they would go lower. Eventually they climbed back up, and I kicked myself for not buying in time. Then, before December, our itinerary changed about three times as the airline started straightening itself back out again.
I was a sophomore in high school, and the first plane crash happened late in 2nd period. Between 2nd and 3rd, word got out around the school that someone crashed a plane into the World Trade Center. "Huh, how did that happen?" was the general reaction of students. After 3rd, news of the other crashes got out, and my 4th period teacher was visibly shaken because she had a relative who worked at the Pentagon.
I was in a 'citizenship' lesson (a sign of the decline in the UK - Government mandated lessons on how to be a good citizen, by a populist Labour Government - not that the Tories wouldn't have also done likewise - in fact it would be a far more typically Tory initiative than a New Labour one). Being the first Tuesday afternoon of the year, and the first year it was demanded, it was the school's first lesson in the subject.
Our teacher (who was a PE teacher who got lumbered with it) didn't have a clue what to teach as there was no syllabus, just that we needed, by law, to be taught a certain amount of it each week (along with Personal, Social & Heath Education, Religious Studies/Ethics, Physical Education and Sport that we didn't necessarily take exams in - the latter two were an hour a week, and the others added up to an hour and a half a week, so we had an hour period each week that was effectively do nothing but watching DVDs and occasionally , rotating what it was meant to be called so we did enough if you also some of our counted our assembly times).
We discussed what it meant to be a good citizen. Most of that was, ironically, keeping up with the news. Our next (and 5th and final) period of the day, we heard it from other boys who had spent their PSHE/RS class (6 groups, 2 slots in the week, so 3 groups that Tuesday afternoon - one on each of the 'well, we have to' subjects, rotating every half term) doing what we were only talking about. I think I had English, which means that one of the first people I heard the news from would later be arrested (and released without charge) for terror offences. We thought they were joking. I heard some mention of it on the radio in a shop on the way home, still didn't really know what had happened. Turned on the TV and couldn't keep away from watching the 24h news for a good few evenings.
Of course, we made lots of fun of the teacher the next week - he walked into it by saying "this time last week, the Twin Towers fell, and we were talking about keeping abreast of the news - so what's happened since?" "I don't know sir, I was too busy talking about keeping abreast of the news to actually watch it - perhaps you should ask the people in the other classes who simply turned on the telly, rather than talk about watching the news" "I was too busy wondering what a good citizen was to actually be one, sir." etc. Being in our final year of compulsory education and as everyone in the room thought the subject was a joke in terms of needing lessons in it and as there was no exam, we had a good bit of banter about it.
you have to call your teachers "sir"?
blecccch.
Quote from: Takumi on September 11, 2012, 11:46:21 AM
I was a sophomore in high school, and the first plane crash happened late in 2nd period. Between 2nd and 3rd, word got out around the school that someone crashed a plane into the World Trade Center. "Huh, how did that happen?" was the general reaction of students. After 3rd, news of the other crashes got out, and my 4th period teacher was visibly shaken because she had a relative who worked at the Pentagon.
I had a good friend who worked in the Historical Office at the Pentagon (sadly, he has since died, but he was not injured in the attack on the building).
We didn't have to (past tense - I mean this was 11 years ago), but first names would have got you in trouble if you used them unless in 11th/12th grade equivalents, and we would have been the equivalent of Sophomores. Which was fine - we typically didn't need to use a name when addressing teachers in class - adding 'Sir' at the end made it obvious we were mocking him and that he was meant to be the example of citizenship.
Typically when outside the classroom, we went "Mr/Mrs/Miss Surname" if there was more than one teacher there. A couple of them had nicknames that we could use with them and many had nicknames that we couldn't use in front of them. Among students, just like Harry Potter, we used surnames with no title to refer to teachers - unless they had amusing nicknames (like TOG - teacher of geography - who was HOG (head of) until retiring as department head. The teachers (relatively) tolerated that one - even the man himself). The citizenship teacher in question was our Head of Year. Behind his back, we called him TWIG - Trevor Whitby Is Gay (for his name was Trevor Whitby) - no idea why, but it stuck.
I live around the corner from the person who played the piano for choir at my Elementary (equivalent) school. I left there in '98, but I still struggle to call her Teresa, rather than Mrs Game (which confuses people when I use her first name, to avoid falling into the habit of calling her Mrs Game - almost everyone in town knows her as Mrs Game). Other teachers that are friends of my parents/that I see from time to time I also struggle to call them anything else but "Mr/Mrs Surname", despite knowing their first names.
My Div (division) Teacher in VIth form (11th/12th grades - not compulsory), who had gone to school in the late 50s/early 60s at similarly top state school that behaves like it is a top private school other than asking for money for tuition, had a system that shows the change that occurred as we left our uniforms behind and donned suits. He'd call every younger boy 'Surname' all the time, but VIth formers he called 'Mr Surname' as a sign of respect as long as we called him "Mr Binns" as a sign of mutual respect, rather than calling him "Peter". I imagine if we had girls, they would always be 'Miss Surname', whatever their age, but neither he or we went to a secondary school with girls in. The teacher-pupil barrier was broken and we didn't really get punished with detention. We still called our teachers what we always did as we were used to it though they used nicknames for us and didn't get wound up if we used their first name (which we rarely did in classroom settings, but outside we might).
I worked at the University of Florida part-time; Tuesdays meant typing up reports and gearing up for inventory that normally takes up a good bit of the day. At about 9am, I got a call from my wife at her work...she said, turn on the TV, apparently a plane has hit the WTC, but we don't know a thing over here (no TVs)...she had heard over the radio at her work. I imagined a wretched little Cessna had somehow hit the observation deck...but this was not the case, of course. I go to get coffee nearby, and about 10 of us are looking up at the TV screen, remarking about the "accident". Suddenly, as were watching live TV, the other tower is struck...I felt a horrible pain my stomach; I felt like I was going to vomit and I felt cold; never before had I ever felt like that.
Nobody said a word for about a minute, and that felt really strange and I think we all felt a weird kind of despair. More students and faculty showed up for a snack, and the channels replayed the same footage again and again, just more people that were shocked. Soon, there's 300-400 people in the food court, and you could hear a pin drop except for the sounds of the TV. Normally all the students and faculty are eating, drinking, talking, and kitchen and service equipment is making enough of a racket that it's hard to hear yourself think. But today, other than the TV...it is nearly silent; the odd whisper or sniffle is the only other thing you can hear. It is the worst kind of silence...nobody wanted to eat and nobody knew how to feel; most of these students were just kids, essentially.
I'm working on the reports, when my supervisor's boss comes in, his face is white. He never talks to any of us about non-work-related things, all business; and when I mean talks, I mean shouting and arguing. He remarks that one of the towers has collapsed, and people were inside of it. In a little while, I go to a TV and see that the other tower has fallen. It just got worse, and worse, and worse...news crews are replaying of what has happened.
By 12 noon, students are told to go home or back to their dormitories, to leave ASAP. Faculty leaves as well, and many people working around the campus have left as well. All the catering events have been canceled for the day, and everything was re-scheduled until further notice. I had taken the bus to work (Tuesdays are also the toughest day to get a parking space, so I could take the bus for free), and the ride back was silent as well, but instead of the usual packed container, it had about 6-7 people in it. Two people were whispering about the world never being the same, others were just crying. I sat towards the front and just looked at my feet all the way to my stop.
I was on a expedited run from Cincinnati to Edison, NJ. Listening to the radio near St. Clairsville, OH is when I first heard about the AA plane hitting the North Trade Tower. Before I reached Wheeling, my wife called about the United plane hitting the South Trade Tower with the words, "This is the beginning of the end." Stopped in Bentleyville, PA to call my parents and see the North Tower fall. I ended up continuing on my trip after an hour.
While driving around Harrisburg, PA, the portable VMS's had the text "N.Y. CITY CLOSED".
I continued to my destination--only to find they had closed at 11 AM that morning. Found a motel near Trenton and watched the coverage on TV. Did not actually see what happened until 8:30 that evening.
The creator of digihitch–a hitchhiking web forum and info launchpad–was hitchhiking cross-country on his way to New York, I think to visit family. Since he was sleeping outdoors and without radio or TV, he was completely unaware of the 9/11 attacks, but wondered why people kept looking at his NYC hitchhiking sign with such strange faces. Apparently not very many people were going to New York at that time....
I was working about 25—30 miles from downtown Chicago, but my mom still called to say she was thinking about me in case they attacked Chicago as well. She knew on a rational level, of course, that it was rather silly, but she called nonetheless. One of my closest coworkers was married to a lady who worked next door to the Sears Tower. She had a slight mental handicap and didn't fully comprehend the situation, and he determined that it wasn't worth it to fully explain things, lest the knowledge immobilize her and she be unable to go to work. A foreign exchange student I had known in high school was working at the McDonald's in the twin towers at that time. On the 11th, he decided not to go to work that day, for no apparent reason. It was a good decision.
I sleep with the radio on to talk or sports, and awoke (West Coast time) to ESPN Radio alternating between stunned, scared and trying to maintain some composure. Since I lived right next to the Ports of Long Beach/Los Angeles, and knew that might be a potential target in a full-scale attack, I went to work several hours early, but didn't do anything that day but take in the news and track down friends in NYC. Fortunately, no one I knew was injured or killed in New York, but it turned out that two of the Flight 93 passengers that fought back went to high school with me (a couple years ahead) and played rugby with my brother.
I was in grade 5 of elementary school. We didn't cancel class or anything, just had the TVs on for about 30-60min at the start of the day (school started at 9:10). Since I didn't know anyone who lived or worked in NYC, nor did anyone else in the family, and since I had never even heard of the twin towers before 9/11, a lot of the symbolic meaning of the event was lost on me, and to this day the world looks the same to me post-9/11 as it does pre-9/11, so a lot of the changes that have happened in response seem weird to me (the best way I can put it without politicizing this thread).
I was working on the 19th floor of the James Monroe Building in Richmond VA when it happened. After first notice, we saw news reports on Internet newspapers, and video feeds. Then the news of the Pentagon attack came. I felt it was rather unlikely that Richmond would be attacked, but rather than take any chance, I headed out of downtown Richmond within a half hour and went home. TV news a couple hours later said that the tall buildings in the downtown were ordered evacuated.
In my dorm room as a first year college student. I only had one class on Tuesdays that first semester (most of 'em were MWF). I went, but all we did was discuss the situation. So I spent most of the day just watching TV since I didn't have my own computer at that point in my life. Just about every cable channel was piping in their parent company's news feed so it was unavoidable. Not that I wanted to watch something else.
Reading "the pet goat" to a second-grade class.
I don't remember.
Feeding my second grade class to a pet goat.
I was home and it was my day off of work. I slept late and heard my family in the next room in awe about a plane crashing into both twin towers. I was in my car driving to Tampa later when I heard on the radio (all Orlando stations were broadcasting one of the network news coverage at the time) from the late Peter Jennings on WHTQ when both towers fell. I remember when the north tower collapsed and Mr. Jennings was speechless.
Later on when President Bush spoke to the nation after the tragedies, I was in the Tampa Winghouse when all televisions were tuned in to the horror. All were quite when the President spoke and I can remember him calling the attackers cowards.
being a pet goat and finding myself fed to second graders.
Quote from: NE2 on September 11, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
Reading "the pet goat" to a second-grade class.
You were playing with the pet goat.
He was "petting" a second grader's "goat". Nudge nudge, wink wink.
Am I the only one out there who is starting to feel old? It seems like everyone was still in school on 9/11. Even the radio announcer today mentioned being in school on 9/11. I AM NOT OLD YET. What is happening?
:hmmm:
I wasn't working that day and was staying at my parents house and was asleep when it all happened. I knew nothing about it until I went downstairs and my dad told me what was going on. I didn't have the horror of watching it all live on TV like many did, but I had to process it all at once-planes crashed into both towers of the World Trade Center and both towers had fallen, a 3rd plane had crashed into the Pentagon, and they weren't sure yet at that moment of the fate of the 4th plane. That was a lot to process all at the same time. The toughest part for me was the thought of the World Trade Center just being gone. I had visited New York 2 years earlier and while I didn't actually go inside the Trade Center while I was there, I remember spending time gazing at the towers while I rode the Staten Island Ferry.
Probably the most lasting thing for me that 9/11 has done to me is it permanently changed some of my pop culture likes and dislikes. I used to be a fan of action/adventure and disaster movies with lots of explosions and destruction. As I watched the replay of events on 9/11, I kept thinking to myself how much it all looked like a movie except it was real. I no longer am a fan of those kinds of movies anymore.
5th grade and class.
I wasn't told by my mother when she came to pick me up to why. It wasn't till we got home and I saw the TV that I knew what happened.
(Note, for whatever reason I wrote my 11s on my college work today in tower form. Figured I did my part.)
I was getting ready to teach a lecture in my Operating Systems course at Williams College. Our department secretary mentioned that something was going on, and I turned on the radio and saw the early reports on the web, and soon after found a television. By that time, both towers had been hit. I was watching live for both collapses. When it was time for class, I went to the classroom and many of the students hadn't yet heard so I told them what I knew (this is the days before every person on every college campus walked from place to place with a smartphone in front of their face). I gave them the option of cancelling class but we went ahead with our lecture on processes and threads. We soon learned that (I think) 3 students at the college lost family members. I remember it being a very surreal feeling all afternoon trying to go through the day but knowing that no one really was getting much accomplished. There was a very well-attended memorial at the chapel on campus that night.
We also learned that one of the planes probably passed right about over Williamstown, and the same one made its turn toward New York after being hijacked almost right over my hometown of Amsterdam, NY.
In subsequent days, I remember how strange it was to see no planes or contrails in the sky. Williamstown wasn't likely high on any target list for followup attacks, but it was definitely a very tense time, not knowing what might be in the works next.
I'm no longer at Williams, but on the way to teach at the College of Saint Rose in Albany this morning, it was a bright and sunny Tuesday morning, very much like that day. Hard to believe that such a perfect day could turn into such a horrible day.
I had never been up in the towers but had seen them a number of times and walked the area nearby. Just a couple weeks earlier, some friends were in from out out town and we went down to a Yankee game. After the game, they wanted to see a bit of Manhattan, so we drove around there for a while before heading back north. We drove right down West Street past the WTC, so the area was very fresh in my mind on that day.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on September 11, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
5th grade and class.
I wasn't told by my mother when she came to pick me up to why. It wasn't till we got home and I saw the TV that I knew what happened.
(Note, for whatever reason I wrote my 11s on my college work today in tower form. Figured I did my part.)
(if you wrote your 9 in flying airplanes form, that would be cool, funny, and a great American pastime, namely freedom of expression)
Quote from: Steve on September 11, 2012, 11:34:55 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on September 11, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
5th grade and class.
I wasn't told by my mother when she came to pick me up to why. It wasn't till we got home and I saw the TV that I knew what happened.
(Note, for whatever reason I wrote my 11s on my college work today in tower form. Figured I did my part.)
(if you wrote your 9 in flying airplanes form, that would be cool, funny, and a great American pastime, namely freedom of expression)
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
I was at home sick from school. I was in bed sleeping when the first plane hit. My mom came to get me up saying that a plane had hit the WTC. A few minutes after I got to the living room where the TV was, I saw the second plane hit live. I was freaking out then and hid in the bathroom for a bit. Then I really started freaking out when I head a plane go overhead, which I'm 99.9% sure was Flight 93 since I live in the North Hills of Pgh, since you normally don't hear the planes overhead on their approach to Pgh'Int and only hear the local medical helicopters, or the local TV stations ones (like on Black Friday). I also saw both towers collapse live on TV as well (I think we had NBC on). It was just nuts that day.
Also, I have some relatives that live in NJ and have work that sometimes took them into NYC. One of them was on a ferry into NYC that morning and they saw the first plane hit. When the ferry docked near the WTC, they just stayed on it and left for NJ again before the 2nd plane hit. So, they are lucky to still be alive.
Anyways, this is my way of tribute to the people that lost their lives that day. I've been working on re-creating every scheme that was run in the NASCAR Winston Cup race @ Dover the week after the attacks happened.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2F911set%2F36usa.jpg&hash=4cca70ccb6fef53484252c5938650e5cbdffb280)
(Note: the URL on the image doesn't work anymore)
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
So someone who was born on that day is doomed to be forever uncool?
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 04:59:49 AM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
So someone who was born on that day is doomed to be forever uncool?
All those poor 367 day-olds!
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 04:59:49 AM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
So someone who was born on that day is doomed to be forever uncool?
That's a 50/50 question, I don't know about "doomed." What I was trying to point out was that the events of 9/11 must never be described in a positive light. Now for people who were born on that day, my advice is to only look at that day as their birthday and try to make the most out of life. NYC didn't just completely fall apart after 9/11, it's just building back together. Though a difficult process, this country is carrying on.
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 07:35:31 AM
What I was trying to point out was that the events of 9/11 must never be described in a positive light.
What you mean to say is a few specific events. Other things happened that day, you know. Other than 10th anniversary festivities (kudos to spanish yes for seeng what I missed).
Was nice to see NBC atone for cutting to an interview during the 7/7 (and if you are Israeli, Munich) minutes silence in the Olympic Opening Ceremony by also having an interview when the other networks were holding a minutes silence for 9/11. We did wonder if it was a location thing - deaths in NYC being worth more than deaths in London (we reckoned on it being unthinkable that they would have done the same with a 9/11 minutes silence). Turns out NBC is simply massively disrespectful to all victims of terror - either that or ridiculously incompetent.
I think dead air just makes TV producers nervous.
Quote from: deanej on September 11, 2012, 05:07:18 PM
I was in grade 5 of elementary school. We didn't cancel class or anything, just had the TVs on for about 30-60min at the start of the day (school started at 9:10). Since I didn't know anyone who lived or worked in NYC, nor did anyone else in the family, and since I had never even heard of the twin towers before 9/11, a lot of the symbolic meaning of the event was lost on me, and to this day the world looks the same to me post-9/11 as it does pre-9/11, so a lot of the changes that have happened in response seem weird to me (the best way I can put it without politicizing this thread).
That pretty much sums it up for me too.
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 07:38:15 AM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 07:35:31 AM
What I was trying to point out was that the events of 9/11 must never be described in a positive light.
What you mean to say is a few specific events. Other things happened that day, you know. Other than 10th anniversary festivities (kudos to spanish yes for seeng what I missed).
Not to mention the solidarity that our country had for a brief time, and that many people set their priorities in order for a brief time. Not all bad came from 9/11, you know. Some good came from it as well.
As a Christian, I maintain that God is in control of history and, no matter how terrible an event may be (and the world is full of terrible events), it is not outside His grasp, and He can actually use it to produce some good. I think the real tragedy is that, since 9/11, we've forgotten the
good things about that day, perhaps more than we've forgotten the
bad things.
Furthermore, while an airplane-styled 9 and tower-styled 1s may be disrespectful and in bad taste, I'd like to say a couple of things about it:
(1) 9/11 was just one day. Here we are, a decade later, and the world is still turning. Kings come and go, the seasons run their course, Cain kills Abel century after century, and life does go on. Let us not make the mistake of
never putting 9/11 behind us. Eventually, there has to be a time when it's OK to make a joke about a piece of our nation's history. If not, our society is crippled, and–in a sense–the terrorists are still winning.
(2) What does America value more than the freedom of speech? I may not like everything someone has to say or write or produce, but in some places what you write can land you in prison or worse. Draw a funny picture of Muhammad's head being chopped off in the KSA and see what happens. Again, let us not make the mistake of trading our love of freedom for hatred of impropriety. If we do, then–in a sense–the terrorists are still winning.
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
people who share your opinion include such luminaries as Osama bin Laden.
Quote from: kphoger on September 12, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
Draw a funny picture of Muhammad's head being chopped off in the KSA and see what happens.
or in the USA and end up with the most bizarre meta-meta-meta-joke in the history of South Park. to this day, I still cannot tell if that was funny or not.
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 04:59:49 AM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
So someone who was born on that day is doomed to be forever uncool?
South Park seems to think so, since that's Butters' birthday and he is usually uncool.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F0%2F06%2FButtersStotch.png%2F130px-ButtersStotch.png&hash=a0080708fe290d3abd2c13644d7d1be7c6d927a9)
Butters is a lot older than 1.
Quote from: kphoger on September 12, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
I maintain that God is in control of history
That's an interesting conspiracy theory.
Quote from: Special K on September 12, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 12, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
I maintain that God is in control of history
That's an interesting conspiracy theory.
If He is, then He is a monster. The Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge, the Great Leap Forward, 9/11...I could keep on going...and that's all within the last 100 years. Not to mention all the atrocities that He committed in the Old Testament.
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 01:15:28 PM
If He is, then He is a monster. The Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge, the Great Leap Forward, 9/11...I could keep on going...and that's all within the last 100 years. Not to mention all the atrocities that He committed in the Old Testament.
also, mosquitoes. poor choice, Big Guy.
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: Special K on September 12, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 12, 2012, 10:31:09 AM
I maintain that God is in control of history
That's an interesting conspiracy theory.
If He is, then He is a monster. The Holocaust, the Holodomor, the Khmer Rouge, the Great Leap Forward, 9/11...I could keep on going...and that's all within the last 100 years. Not to mention all the atrocities that He committed in the Old Testament.
We'll have to see how those events are remembered in 500 years, after the memory of the horrors have faded. The similar extermination of many cities and villages at the hands of the Mongols is viewed in a
positive light by many these days because the societies were stagnant and "needed a push to resume progress". Nice to know that it's ethical to kill millions of people in order to further "progress", never mind that the Mongols didn't care about such stuff. It's actually quite likely that something similar will happen to the holocaust since it directly caused the later formation of Israel, though as I said, that will be centuries from now when the horror of the people who actually lived through it is no longer remembered.
It's quite unfortunate, really. Our views of events are so polarized based on whether we bore the costs of them or only reaped the rewards.
EDIT: Ironically, my 2001th post is about 9/11/2001.
Quote from: deanej on September 12, 2012, 03:14:17 PMNice to know that it's ethical to kill millions of people in order to further "progress"
Of course, bugo's list of 20th Century atrocities were justified on those evolutionary grounds - Darwin giving a biological phenomenon that was similar to his father and grandfather's Hegelian worldview that the world opened the lid on what we now call 'Social Darwinism'.
Darwin himself had to repeatedly strenuously deny that Natural Selection by the Preservation of Favoured Races didn't mean that you should change "survival of the fittest" to "the weak shouldn't survive". Hegel's philosophy has become almost like air we breathe - we can't see it, but are constantly taking it in and spewing it out.
Quote from: deanej on September 12, 2012, 03:14:17 PM
EDIT: Ironically, my 2001th post is about 9/11/2001.
"Coincidentally"
The Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism. Stalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox. The US committed atrocities in WWII, but not specifically in the name of religion. The current "war on terror" is a religious war in all but name.
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 05:15:43 PMThe Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism.
I'm certainly not going to make the other fallacy of him doing it out of his atheism, but he used a ton of stuff about Aryanism was the master-race, the fit race, the race that should survive (and Luther quotes that every Luther-lover wishes he never said, about how the (religion-wise, not race-wise) Jews should surely be under the same blasphemy laws as everyone else, out of context in a radical way). He frequently called Jews and Gipsies unfit to survive. Also bare in mind that it was the Nazis who made Eugenics a dirty word - Eugenics being the social Darwinism prevalent across the west until (well) after the war, started by those who loved Darwin's biological theories and wanted to apply them.
Hitler's Catholicism was - at best - nominal, and while it was an appalling thing that RCC supported him - not just the millions of nominals across Europe, but the ones who were committed Catholics, it wasn't a driving factor on any of his decisions. The religion that Hitler killed for was a warped view of evolution, mixed with nationalism and racism.
QuoteStalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox.
And followed a doctrine (Marxism) that hated religion, and thought it a barrier to evolutionary progress, so attempted a religocide on the Eastern Orthodox church. Half the irritation that Pussy Riot caused was that it was in the church which he ruined and left as ruins in a statement of what the politbureau thought religion did, and what they would do to it. The church Pussy Riot did their thing in is effectively a shrine to the millions Stalin killed for simply being Eastern Orthodox and refusing to be atheists.
QuoteThe current "war on terror" is a religious war in all but name.
Yes, Islam vs whatever the fuck we westerners believe - which in the most part is secular humanism, saturated by Hegel, with some deistic sprinkles.
Though that's a myth - the Islam at play here is basically a political movement (if viewed in Western terms - religion and politics are almost one and the same in the Islamic worldview) and they are fighting a "democracy and freedom yeah!" political viewpoint. Both of which are quite Hegelian - there's two ideologies: liberal democracy and political Islam (which replaces the old enemy of liberal democracy - communism). Both view it progress to spread that ideology, both use violent means to get it spread, both view it as enlightening to be under their system and the answer to all the problems that those outside it currently have.
And of course, evolution doesn't necessitate social Darwinism - Darwin himself spent years arguing against it, Dawkins rightly rejects strongly the fallacy of making the short hop from "the fit will survive" to "the weak shouldn't survive".
My point is that if God is in charge of history, then he's doing a good job of showing out that loving atheism's second best argument against his existence (evolution) are monsters, given that the atrocities that typically make up atheism's best argument were committed by ardent evolutionists, acting in the name of evolution.
If this God feller is so in control of everything, why does He let so many bad things occur in His name? The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, pogroms against Jews. I could go on all night.
If a gardener is so in control of everything, why does he let so many bad things happen to his plants?
To God, we are but cucumbers planted in bullshit.
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 07:36:26 PM
If a gardener is so in control of everything, why does he let so many bad things happen to his plants?
To God, we are but cucumbers planted in bullshit.
+1
I got to my office about half an hour before the first plane hit. Found out about it when it was mentioned over the MetroTraffic working frequency - this was shortly before the MSM in Boston picked up the story and splashed it everywhere.
The word came down to us (and just about everyone else in Downtown Boston) to go home at about 10:30. As our local transit system was now in mid-day service mode, and hadn't been told to anticipate a mass exodus (and thus perhaps schedule some extra trains and buses to accommodate people), it took me just over three hours to get home that day. By comparison, my normal door-to-door commute, which involves a combination of driving, walking, train, and subway, is usually 50 to 55 minutes.
My birthday was the day before (9/10/01), and I recall remarking to my brother that evening "Well, I sure didn't expect the world to fall apart so quickly after I turned forty!"
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 05:15:43 PM
The Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism. Stalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox.
Hitler and Stalin cannot hijack Christianity. What they did was completely opposite to Christianity.
Quote from: roadman on September 12, 2012, 08:20:42 PM
My birthday was the day before (9/10/01), and I recall remarking to my brother that evening "Well, I sure didn't expect the world to fall apart so quickly after I turned forty!"
I remember putting down Tom Clancy's "The Sum of All Fears", the final scene of which is someone crashing a 747 into the White House. I went to sleep thinking "that'll never happen"... that was on 9/10/2001.
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 05:15:43 PM
The Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism. Stalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox.
Hitler and Stalin cannot hijack Christianity. What they did was completely opposite to Christianity.
What modern Christian leader has been anything but completely opposite to Christianity?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 12, 2012, 09:30:17 PM
I remember putting down Tom Clancy's "The Sum of All Fears"
I had just completed Kenzaburō Ōe's
Hiroshima Notes, which described individuals in Hiroshima who had seemingly inexplicably survived the atomic bomb. But it kind of make me hope very strongly for days that suddenly dozens of survivors would come out of the wreckage, even though the logical part of me thought "no way".
Very weird ironies, now that I think about it.
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 05:15:43 PM
The Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism. Stalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox.
Hitler and Stalin cannot hijack Christianity. What they did was completely opposite to Christianity.
What modern Christian leader has been anything but completely opposite to Christianity?
Sounds like YOU are 180 degrees out of sync ...
His statement may have been rather strongly worded but there is a kernel of truth to it. Certainly couldn't be described as 180° out of sync. There are a lot of folks these days that shroud themselves in Christianity to support ideals counter to those espoused by Jesus, and often end up hoodwinking Christians into thinking those ideals stem from the Bible when they really don't.
Not that religious discussion is on topic in this thread specifically or has ever been allowed under the rules of the forum generally.
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 08:05:22 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 07:36:26 PM
If a gardener is so in control of everything, why does he let so many bad things happen to his plants?
To God, we are but cucumbers planted in bullshit.
+1
I'll give some helpful advice- Unfortunately, NE2 hates +1s.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 12, 2012, 12:09:02 PM
Quote from: NYYPhil777 on September 12, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
Nothing is cool or funny about September 11, 2011.
people who share your opinion include such luminaries as Osama bin Laden.
:angry: :angry:
Here is what I recall. I was watching good morning america about 8:00, and everything was normal. They had showing street scene from NYC, with the great weather. About 8:45, I left home in Annandale, VA to go to customer in Alexandria, VA on Duke Street. On the way, listening to news, heard that airplane had struck WTC, at that time being reported as a bad accident. About 10:00 am I called home after getting more news about WTC at customer site. Wife said she heard a very large boom noise, when she was in attic of house. I originally dismissed what she had heard, saying that airplane crashes were in NYC. Later found out about Pentagon crash, and realized that she probably did hear the crash, as we live less than 8 miles from Pentagon, as the crow flies. To stay off freeways, took Duke St west back to home in Annandale. When I crossed I-395, I observed that there where police blocking access to I-395 North. Also HOV lanes were opened to southbound traffic at that time (12:00), which is a lot earlier than normal. Spent the rest of day watching news.
Wow, didn't mean to spark a religious discussion here, just point out that events tend to be viewed differently when we look at the results (direct and indirect) rather than the costs. For more I recommend Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast - specifically the Wrath of the Khans series (Alexander vs. Hitler and Nazi Tidbits are also good, but you have to pay $1-2 for them now).
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2012, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: deanej on September 12, 2012, 03:14:17 PMNice to know that it's ethical to kill millions of people in order to further "progress"
Of course, bugo's list of 20th Century atrocities were justified on those evolutionary grounds - Darwin giving a biological phenomenon that was similar to his father and grandfather's Hegelian worldview that the world opened the lid on what we now call 'Social Darwinism'.
Darwin himself had to repeatedly strenuously deny that Natural Selection by the Preservation of Favoured Races didn't mean that you should change "survival of the fittest" to "the weak shouldn't survive". Hegel's philosophy has become almost like air we breathe - we can't see it, but are constantly taking it in and spewing it out.
Indeed; the fact that we have a society like we do theoretically means that we can rise above "survival of the fittest", but sadly it doesn't seem to work that way. Any debate on economics and/or entitlements today is pretty much just a referendum on social darwinism.
Yeah. Umm... Hitler was raised a Catholic and believed in God, even if he held a tainted view of the Church. But that doesn't mean the Holocaust was committed in the name of religion. I think it's more accurate to say he occasionally used religion to justify his agenda, not that his agenda was born of religious ideals.
agentsteel53: Mosquitoes. LOL (and I don't say that often). Also, are you serious about the timing of your book-reading experience? 'Cause that's amazing.
NE2: Cucumbers. :D
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: bugo on September 12, 2012, 05:15:43 PM
The Holocaust was committed by Hitler in the name of religion - namely Roman Catholicism. Stalin was rumored to be an Eastern Orthodox.
Hitler and Stalin cannot hijack Christianity. What they did was completely opposite to Christianity.
What modern Christian leader has been anything but completely opposite to Christianity?
Sounds like YOU are 180 degrees out of sync ...
He's a lot closer to the truth than the opposite. Most leaders are politicians, not devotees. Actual devotees tend to take religious positions in the church instead of government.
Quote from: Steve on September 13, 2012, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
What modern Christian leader has been anything but completely opposite to Christianity?
Sounds like YOU are 180 degrees out of sync ...
He's a lot closer to the truth than the opposite. Most leaders are politicians, not devotees. Actual devotees tend to take religious positions in the church instead of government.
Christian pastors do not hold political office while they pastor a church, at least it is very rare.
Senior year of high school. My morning schedule was mostly empty to allow me to attend a math class at OSU, which hadn't started autumn quarter yet. So I spent the first two periods helping out in the guidance office before third period study hall in the commons. Towards the end of second period, I had just been given some news about National Merit Scholar stuff, and was heading to the commons when an office worker mentioned he heard via email that two planes had struck the twin towers. I had imagined small aircraft and no more loss of life than a typical auto accident.
Not long into third period, someone turned on the TV in the commons. I stayed there watching through study hall, fourth period lunch, fifth period lunch, and sixth period lunch. When the first collapse happened, the reporter said the facade had fallen from the tower; I squinted at the screen, trying to see more clearly into the dust cloud, and thought 'lady, I don't think that tower is there anymore!' By the time I headed to my seventh/eighth period class, both towers were piles of rubble, the pentagon blast had been deemed another air crash, and the media was closing in on the crash site in PA.
The rest of the day was easy, in a way; we still had to do our schoolwork, but the load seemed lighter, and nobody demanded full attention.
It seems to me the world sucks a little more than it used to before that day.
Quote from: Beltway on September 13, 2012, 08:31:29 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 13, 2012, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 12, 2012, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 12, 2012, 09:41:05 PM
What modern Christian leader has been anything but completely opposite to Christianity?
Sounds like YOU are 180 degrees out of sync ...
He's a lot closer to the truth than the opposite. Most leaders are politicians, not devotees. Actual devotees tend to take religious positions in the church instead of government.
Christian pastors do not hold political office while they pastor a church, at least it is very rare.
Mike Huckabee is a good example.
Quote from: vtk on September 13, 2012, 11:00:11 PM
It seems to me the world sucks a little more than it used to before that day.
yes, it's called the TSA.
apart from that, the world is about the same. some people are assholes. most are not.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 14, 2012, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: vtk on September 13, 2012, 11:00:11 PM
It seems to me the world sucks a little more than it used to before that day.
yes, it's called the TSA.
apart from that, the world is about the same. some people are assholes. most are not.
Not just TSA, but also county police that pull you over under the guise that "terrorists routinely run up this highway and drive erratically because they are running for 24 straight hours", when they are just looking for anything to cite you with.
Or MTA bridges and tunnels with their photography prohibited signs.
The world was a better place pre 9/11, but some will contend it was because "our watch was down and now it is not"...
Quote from: Alex on September 14, 2012, 12:50:53 PM
Not just TSA, but also county police that pull you over under the guise that "terrorists routinely run up this highway and drive erratically because they are running for 24 straight hours", when they are just looking for anything to cite you with.
Or MTA bridges and tunnels with their photography prohibited signs.
The world was a better place pre 9/11, but some will contend it was because "our watch was down and now it is not"...
indeed. who has done the most damage to US infrastructure, community, and well-being, since Sept. 10th, 2001?
the US Government.
vote Bin Laden!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 14, 2012, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: Alex on September 14, 2012, 12:50:53 PM
Not just TSA, but also county police that pull you over under the guise that "terrorists routinely run up this highway and drive erratically because they are running for 24 straight hours", when they are just looking for anything to cite you with.
Or MTA bridges and tunnels with their photography prohibited signs.
The world was a better place pre 9/11, but some will contend it was because "our watch was down and now it is not"...
indeed. who has done the most damage to US infrastructure, community, and well-being, since Sept. 10th, 2001?
the US Government.
vote Bin Laden!
I don't think he's on my state's ballot.
I do share the sentiment that the world is a little bit suckier than before 9/11, but I can't put my finger exactly on what's suckier. Or it could be that what is making the world suckier is not related or only tangentally related to 9/11. Suckier is a cool word. Suckier.
Quote from: Alex on September 14, 2012, 12:50:53 PMNot just TSA, but also county police that pull you over under the guise that "terrorists routinely run up this highway and drive erratically because they are running for 24 straight hours", when they are just looking for anything to cite you with.
Or taking photos of things people don't usually take photos of, especially around NYC. I got harrassed by Newark police for taking photos outside of Penn Station (could've been worse, I have a bunch of pics from the inside, including platforms, rail signals and such; only later did I learn that the PA specifically prohibits taking photos of their stuff, especially the PATH;). Even railfans in Montreal's Central Station had to deal with security for taking photos of something as public as the departures board in the concourse. More recently, I went through a TSA checkpoint... at the Rensselaer Amtrak station, and a brainwashing video about how important and good those checkpoints are was playing in New York's Penn Station while I was waiting before my return trip.
I have muslim friends and I can confirm that there's obvious profiling at security checkpoints and sometimes even customs.
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2012, 08:29:45 AM
Was nice to see NBC atone for cutting to an interview during the 7/7 (and if you are Israeli, Munich) minutes silence in the Olympic Opening Ceremony by also having an interview when the other networks were holding a minutes silence for 9/11. We did wonder if it was a location thing - deaths in NYC being worth more than deaths in London (we reckoned on it being unthinkable that they would have done the same with a 9/11 minutes silence). Turns out NBC is simply massively disrespectful to all victims of terror - either that or ridiculously incompetent.
Yet back in 2001, NBC (Sports) had no problems not speaking during Lap 3 at NASCAR races for Dale Earnhardt. Shows how messed up in the head NBC now is.
Quote from: Alex on September 14, 2012, 12:50:53 PM
Not just TSA, but also county police that pull you over under the guise that "terrorists routinely run up this highway and drive erratically because they are running for 24 straight hours", when they are just looking for anything to cite you with.
Or MTA bridges and tunnels with their photography prohibited signs.
The world was a better place pre 9/11, but some will contend it was because "our watch was down and now it is not"...
Wasn't the
transit part of NY MTA put on notice that they (and the law enforcement officers that patrol their properties) could not interfere with private persons taking photographs of or on MTA property?
I know this was discussed in some detail in
Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.amazon.com/Looking-America-New-Jersey-Turnpike/dp/0813519551) (
well before 2001), and a person issued a ticket by the NJSP for illegal picture taking on the Turnpike had to appeal to at least the intermediate appeals court in New Jersey (and maybe the highest appellate court) to get the Turnpike Authority's administrative rule against photography struck-down as unconstitutional.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 14, 2012, 09:24:43 PM
I know this was discussed in some detail in Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.amazon.com/Looking-America-New-Jersey-Turnpike/dp/0813519551) (well before 2001), and a person issued a ticket by the NJSP for illegal picture taking on the Turnpike had to appeal to at least the intermediate appeals court in New Jersey (and maybe the highest appellate court) to get the Turnpike Authority's administrative rule against photography struck-down as unconstitutional.
I got bemused looks when I used my own photography for a powerpoint to the NJTA. Of course, the rule is no photography, but reading the rule, it seems that it applies to those looking to stage photos (i.e., not just driving along at speed). How so? I shouldn't have to apply for a full permit and list my impacts to traffic and hours of photography if I'm going with the flow of traffic the entire time. So they needled me, but I smiled and said that I wasn't holding up traffic. They also liked my 1960s/50s photos from Michael Summa, so it balanced out.
Now, can we get the MTA's "terrorism" ban on photos thrown out also? Not that I've ever seen it enforced.
Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 14, 2012, 09:24:43 PM
I know this was discussed in some detail in Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.amazon.com/Looking-America-New-Jersey-Turnpike/dp/0813519551) (well before 2001), and a person issued a ticket by the NJSP for illegal picture taking on the Turnpike had to appeal to at least the intermediate appeals court in New Jersey (and maybe the highest appellate court) to get the Turnpike Authority's administrative rule against photography struck-down as unconstitutional.
I got bemused looks when I used my own photography for a powerpoint to the NJTA. Of course, the rule is no photography, but reading the rule, it seems that it applies to those looking to stage photos (i.e., not just driving along at speed). How so? I shouldn't have to apply for a full permit and list my impacts to traffic and hours of photography if I'm going with the flow of traffic the entire time. So they needled me, but I smiled and said that I wasn't holding up traffic. They also liked my 1960s/50s photos from Michael Summa, so it balanced out.
Wonder if the NJTA enacted a new rule against photography on the Turnpike, because the old one was invalidated (or at least declared unenforceable) by one of the Garden State's appeals courts? Or did they leave the old one in place, hoping people would not notice that it had been tossed out by the New Jersey courts?
I just wonder what justification they use for a photography ban in the first place. And is it illegal for someone to snap an image of a family member while stopped at one of the many service plazas on the Turnpike (or the Garden State Parkway)?
The Turnpike's regulation does not seem to have deterred Google from imaging both highways for Street View, and I suppose anyone that were to be charged with illegal photography on either road could probably cite that (along with New Jersey case law) as a reason to invalidate the Turnpike Authority's rule
again.
Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
Now, can we get the MTA's "terrorism" ban on photos thrown out also? Not that I've ever seen it enforced.
Sounds like a fine idea to me!
Just another example of wasteful "security theater" that contributes nothing to actual security.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 15, 2012, 12:53:56 AM
Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 14, 2012, 09:24:43 PM
I know this was discussed in some detail in Looking for America on the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.amazon.com/Looking-America-New-Jersey-Turnpike/dp/0813519551) (well before 2001), and a person issued a ticket by the NJSP for illegal picture taking on the Turnpike had to appeal to at least the intermediate appeals court in New Jersey (and maybe the highest appellate court) to get the Turnpike Authority's administrative rule against photography struck-down as unconstitutional.
I got bemused looks when I used my own photography for a powerpoint to the NJTA. Of course, the rule is no photography, but reading the rule, it seems that it applies to those looking to stage photos (i.e., not just driving along at speed). How so? I shouldn't have to apply for a full permit and list my impacts to traffic and hours of photography if I'm going with the flow of traffic the entire time. So they needled me, but I smiled and said that I wasn't holding up traffic. They also liked my 1960s/50s photos from Michael Summa, so it balanced out.
Wonder if the NJTA enacted a new rule against photography on the Turnpike, because the old one was invalidated (or at least declared unenforceable) by one of the Garden State's appeals courts? Or did they leave the old one in place, hoping people would not notice that it had been tossed out by the New Jersey courts?
It's not a ban. You just need to apply for a permit. But again, I don't think it's the same thing - I don't think it's intended for vehicles moving at speed, only those that want to stop and take photos. I don't know whether that extends to rest areas, but I can say this - they are a smart agency, so they're not going after people taking souvenir photos at rest areas.
Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
Now, can we get the MTA's "terrorism" ban on photos thrown out also? Not that I've ever seen it enforced.
Freedom of panorama (i.e. that which exists in a public place) should not be taken away. FFS, I take photos all the time at airports, large and small, of aircraft, gear, equipment, terminals, even TSA checkpoints (although the latter, without flash)...and
nobody seems to care, rightfully so!
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 14, 2012, 08:33:52 PM
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2012, 08:29:45 AM
Was nice to see NBC atone for cutting to an interview during the 7/7 (and if you are Israeli, Munich) minutes silence in the Olympic Opening Ceremony by also having an interview when the other networks were holding a minutes silence for 9/11. We did wonder if it was a location thing - deaths in NYC being worth more than deaths in London (we reckoned on it being unthinkable that they would have done the same with a 9/11 minutes silence). Turns out NBC is simply massively disrespectful to all victims of terror - either that or ridiculously incompetent.
Yet back in 2001, NBC (Sports) had no problems not speaking during Lap 3 at NASCAR races for Dale Earnhardt. Shows how messed up in the head NBC now is.
I think you meant 2011...It wasn't uncommon for a race to have a lap or two in which the commentators "laid out", to enjoy the sights and sounds. But I suppose that experimental football game in 1980 was just too much for people to handle...are people that spooked out by a lack of talking heads, most of which add nothing to the event? Maybe if you we a novice nor newcomer, but I could easily watch a race or game without commentary; there's always a score on the screen, a graphic telling you some stat, et cetera. Although a
dull game or event can be livened up with commentary - I'd miss Benny Parsons chatting it up about the local places to eat or David Hobbs mentioning an odd driver story from the past when the race was on its nineteenth caution. So I suppose it works both ways.
Actually, I missed the opening ceremony, but I had heard the IOC originally did not want to take a minute's silence to supposedly "honor" another country. Looks like they made the right choice, after all.
I think there's a need for some sort of commentary–even high school football has someone in the press box mentioning key players of the last play over the PA.
Quote from: formulanone on September 15, 2012, 10:19:06 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 14, 2012, 08:33:52 PM
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2012, 08:29:45 AM
Was nice to see NBC atone for cutting to an interview during the 7/7 (and if you are Israeli, Munich) minutes silence in the Olympic Opening Ceremony by also having an interview when the other networks were holding a minutes silence for 9/11. We did wonder if it was a location thing - deaths in NYC being worth more than deaths in London (we reckoned on it being unthinkable that they would have done the same with a 9/11 minutes silence). Turns out NBC is simply massively disrespectful to all victims of terror - either that or ridiculously incompetent.
Yet back in 2001, NBC (Sports) had no problems not speaking during Lap 3 at NASCAR races for Dale Earnhardt. Shows how messed up in the head NBC now is.
I think you meant 2011...It wasn't uncommon for a race to have a lap or two in which the commentators "laid out", to enjoy the sights and sounds. But I suppose that experimental football game in 1980 was just too much for people to handle...are people that spooked out by a lack of talking heads, most of which add nothing to the event? Maybe if you we a novice nor newcomer, but I could easily watch a race or game without commentary; there's always a score on the screen, a graphic telling you some stat, et cetera. Although a dull game or event can be livened up with commentary - I'd miss Benny Parsons chatting it up about the local places to eat or David Hobbs mentioning an odd driver story from the past when the race was on its nineteenth caution. So I suppose it works both ways.
No, I do mean 2001. Dale Earnhardt died in a last lap crash in that year's Daytona 500. After that happen, each network (FOX, NBC, TNT) that covered the races for the remaining of the season didn't speak on Lap #3 in his honor (unless the race was under Caution for that lap, then they did the 3rd green flag lap if I remember correctly after the yellow ended). Here's an example (http://youtu.be/Gm-TaK4s18I?t=3m50s). That example comes from the 1st race after 9/11, so it's a combo of both at the same time.
Ah, faded memory of mine...You're right.
I was sitting in my first period homeroom class, AP World History as we reviewed for the next day's exam when our principal came in to tell us to turn on the news because a plane "accidentally hit the Twin Towers in NYC." Then every class was tuned in and glued to the day's coverage.
Quote from: achilles765 on October 11, 2012, 02:18:44 AM
I was sitting in my first period homeroom class, AP World History as we reviewed for the next day's exam when our principal came in to tell us to turn on the news because a plane "accidentally hit the Twin Towers in NYC." Then every class was tuned in and glued to the day's coverage.
When the first one hit, I think everyone assumed it was accidental since planes accidentally hitting skyscrapers had happened several times before. I certainly did as I heard the first report on the car radio while on my commute to work. It wasn't until the
second one hit the
other tower that it became clear that it was an intentional act.
Quote from: Special K on October 11, 2012, 09:02:57 AM
When the first one hit, I think everyone assumed it was accidental since planes accidentally hitting skyscrapers had happened several times before.
That was my reaction. I was in "college" spending as much time reading the news online as paying attention. When "Plane Hits World Trade Center" came up in a line as breaking news on the Post-Gazette website, I assumed it was some small plane accidentally crashing into a building, and didn't even bother clicking on the link to read about it.
Shortly after that there was an image associated, and it was obvious my assumption was pretty off......
Quote from: Special K on October 11, 2012, 09:02:57 AM
Quote from: achilles765 on October 11, 2012, 02:18:44 AM
I was sitting in my first period homeroom class, AP World History as we reviewed for the next day's exam when our principal came in to tell us to turn on the news because a plane "accidentally hit the Twin Towers in NYC." Then every class was tuned in and glued to the day's coverage.
When the first one hit, I think everyone assumed it was accidental since planes accidentally hitting skyscrapers had happened several times before. I certainly did as I heard the first report on the car radio while on my commute to work. It wasn't until the second one hit the other tower that it became clear that it was an intentional act.
That occurs to me as well–while the first impact was widely believed to be accidental, so many people still tuned in just on that basis that the second impact was widely witnessed. I've wondered since why there was such attention paid to what was thought to be an accident (interrupting classrooms and so forth), especially since it wasn't realized at first to be a jet liner. But maybe I'm misremembering a time in our lives when even a small-engine aircraft accident was enough to raise national attention, without wanton intentional destruction having to be an ingredient. :-(
I distinctly remember thinking it was an accident because it wasn't yet 9:00 am. Although intentionally flying planes into buildings had occurred to me previously as a dangerously achievable means of terrorism, I would have assumed the attackers would wait until the workday was in full swing for maximum casualties. I'm glad, I suppose, that real terrorists' thinking doesn't match my own quite so closely.
I was working a graveyard shift at the time. I had cracked a beer and was 10 minutes from going to bed when I heard a local radio show say "Hey, what's going on at the World Trade Center?" I turned the TV on and saw the second plane.
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 16, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Two large airliners, 18 minutes apart...
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 06:01:18 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 16, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Two large airliners, 18 minutes apart...
It would have been an embarrassing statement if it turned out to be false...
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2012, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 06:01:18 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 16, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Two large airliners, 18 minutes apart...
It would have been an embarrassing statement if it turned out to be false...
If what had turned out to be false? Incorrect reports? That both crashes were accidents?
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2012, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 06:01:18 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 16, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Two large airliners, 18 minutes apart...
It would have been an embarrassing statement if it turned out to be false...
If what had turned out to be false? Incorrect reports? That both crashes were accidents?
If the crashes had indeed turned out to be anything other than an attack (some sort of unlikely error), then it would have been embarrassing to have announced them as such. Of course, with 99% certainty, any one of us would have gone ahead and made the announcement too.
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2012, 08:35:24 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 16, 2012, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 16, 2012, 06:01:18 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 16, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 16, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
I remember Bush getting on the radio not long after the second impact claiming we were being attacked. Which turned out to be the truth, but how did he know it was an attack and not an accident so soon after it happened? Sounds fishy to me.
two planes? hell of a coincidence.
Two large airliners, 18 minutes apart...
It would have been an embarrassing statement if it turned out to be false...
If what had turned out to be false? Incorrect reports? That both crashes were accidents?
If the crashes had indeed turned out to be anything other than an attack (some sort of unlikely error), then it would have been embarrassing to have announced them as such. Of course, with 99% certainty, any one of us would have gone ahead and made the announcement too.
Errmmm ... one large airliner from the north at full speed, then 18 minutes later another large airliner from the west at full speed ... each hit a different Trade Tower ..
99.99% certainty?