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Strong Towns founder publishes a book

Started by SkyPesos, September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM

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SkyPesos

In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.


snowc

Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.
will it talk about the i238 and the i99? :biggrin: :hmmm:

Rothman

Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.
will it talk about the i238 and the i99? :hmmm:
No. 
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

snowc

Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.
will it talk about the i238 and the i99? :hmmm:
No.
aw man! guess that's not going to be the book for me.  :rolleyes:

Rothman

Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:57:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.
will it talk about the i238 and the i99? :hmmm:
No.
aw man! guess that's not going to be the book for me.  :rolleyes:
It actually sounds like a book written by an engineer that knows sound design principles, but exaggerates his knowledge about funding, which would be par for the course.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

snowc

Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:57:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: snowc on September 07, 2021, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
In case anyone needs a new transportation related book to read, I found this one on Amazon's new releases list coming out tomorrow by Strong Towns founder Charles Marohn called "Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town" .
Description directly from Amazon:
QuoteDiscover insider secrets of how America's transportation system is designed, funded, and built — and how to make it work for your community

In Confessions of a Recovering Engineer: Transportation for a Strong Town, renowned speaker and author of Strong Towns Charles L. Marohn Jr. delivers an accessible and engaging exploration of America's transportation system, laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did, and how to modernize transportation to better serve local communities.

You'll discover real-world examples of poor design choices and how those choices have dramatic and tragic effects on the lives of the people who use them. You'll also find case studies and examples of design improvements that have revitalized communities and improved safety.

This important book shows you:

The values of the transportation professions, how they are applied in the design process, and how those priorities differ from those of the public.
How the standard approach to transportation ensures the maximum amount of traffic congestion possible is created each day, and how to fight that congestion on a budget.
Bottom-up techniques for spending less and getting higher returns on transportation projects, all while improving quality of life for residents.
Perfect for anyone interested in why transportation systems work — and fail to work — the way they do, Confessions of a Recovering Engineer is a fascinating insider's peek behind the scenes of America's transportation systems.
I pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Can't wait to read it and see specifically what it's all about. Abd if anyone else is going to read it, could have a discussion here about it.
will it talk about the i238 and the i99? :hmmm:
No.
aw man! guess that's not going to be the book for me.  :rolleyes:
It actually sounds like a book written by an engineer that knows sound design principles, but exaggerates his knowledge about funding, which would be par for the course.
oh ok. thanks for the clearup.

jeffandnicole

"...laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did"

It doesn't work like it used to? 

How do 350 million people get around every day?

SkyPesos

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 07, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
"...laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did"

It doesn't work like it used to? 

How do 350 million people get around every day?
I have a feeling this is the part where he's going to get super technical from this vague statement.

Rothman

Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 07, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
"...laying bare the reasons why it no longer works as it once did"

It doesn't work like it used to? 

How do 350 million people get around every day?
I have a feeling this is the part where he's going to get super technical from this vague statement.
No.  No, he won't.  When talking about the system failing, getting "super technical" into design details of a specific structure or facility will not help.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 02:19:15 PM
No.  No, he won't.  When talking about the system failing, getting "super technical" into design details of a specific structure or facility will not help.

You can't really illustrate a point without showing examples, and you can't do justice to examples without going into technical details.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Rothman

Quote from: Ned Weasel on September 07, 2021, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2021, 02:19:15 PM
No.  No, he won't.  When talking about the system failing, getting "super technical" into design details of a specific structure or facility will not help.

You can't really illustrate a point without showing examples, and you can't do justice to examples without going into technical details.
We shall see. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SkyPesos

Btw, this is the same person that went on a crusade against "stroads" a few years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if they are mentioned in the book too.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad

kalvado

Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 08:23:59 PM
Btw, this is the same person that went on a crusade against "stroads" a few years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if they are mentioned in the book too.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad
In the interest of objectivity, one should mention that this guy is founder of Strong Towns, one of extreme urbanist sites.

Maybe change title to "strong towns founder publishes a book"?

Alps

Quote from: kalvado on September 07, 2021, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 08:23:59 PM
Btw, this is the same person that went on a crusade against "stroads" a few years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if they are mentioned in the book too.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad
In the interest of objectivity, one should mention that this guy is founder of Strong Towns, one of extreme urbanist sites.

Maybe change title to "strong towns founder publishes a book"?
You can change the title of your reply by using the full reply feature instead of Quick Reply.

SkyPesos

#14
Quote from: kalvado on September 07, 2021, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 07, 2021, 08:23:59 PM
Btw, this is the same person that went on a crusade against "stroads" a few years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if they are mentioned in the book too.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad
In the interest of objectivity, one should mention that this guy is founder of Strong Towns, one of extreme urbanist sites.

Maybe change title to "strong towns founder publishes a book"?
I'll change the title then, to somewhat mention the author.

Looking through the forum, specifically the threads discussing his Growth Ponzi and Stroads concepts, yea, I can see that Strong Towns is pretty controversial here.

vdeane

Yeah, it's pretty obvious from the "how our roads are built to maximize congestion" part that this book is all about things like "induced demand".
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SkyPesos

I got to chapter 2 in the book so far, some interesting points, This is where he starts talking about stroads.

- So far, he used State Street in Springfield, MA, in front of the library as an example of poor design for pedestrians trying to get from the library to the parking lot across from the road.
- Here's a graph he has in the book differentiating the speed between "streets" and "roads". This one sort of confused me, as he placed 25 mph (a common speed for residential roads in the US) in the stroads category, and said that anything above 15 or 20 mph are no longer considered as streets.

- He mentioned the Esplanade in Chico, CA as an example of a "productive stroad", with a frontage lane serving the purposes of a street, and the center lanes serving the purpose of a road, and those two lanes separated by a tree lined median. The only downside to this is the longer crossing time for pedestrians. Not sure what the general opinion on this type of road here, as I don't see this design talked about much.
- In chapter 1, he havethis table on the design process of roads, it's pretty self explanatory.

Scott5114

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 16, 2021, 12:08:27 PM
[...]he placed 25 mph (a common speed for residential roads in the US) in the stroads category, and said that anything above 15 or 20 mph are no longer considered as streets.

Ah, so he's an idiot.

Quote from: SkyPesos on October 16, 2021, 12:08:27 PM


Note that the Y-axis here has absolutely zero numerical units associated with it. Meaning this graph is based on nothing but this dude's opinion. And given that he's an idiot, his opinion would end up at the bottom of that Y-axis...
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

thspfc

So he's just a basic keyboard raging urbanist who doesn't understand that different people have different preferences and priorities for how they want to live.

If I, someone living in a fairly stereotypical suburban America community, wanted to scream at people living in high density urban neighborhoods, I could, and I would be able to back up my ranting with facts that are no less valid than what they use to hate suburbs. But I actually understand that their preferences are probably different from mine.

MCRoads

Ok, I'm going to play devils advocate here: he isn't totally wrong. While I do NOT agree with everything he says, he brings up some good points (at least from the excepts of the book I have seen. Public transportation SUCKS here. As a visually impaired person who will never be able to operate a vehicle safely (aside from "why don't you drive the car in the parking lot/dirt field"  thing most parents do before you get a license) (also, yes, I see the irony), I hate having to use the city bud. It never comes in time, the fare is $63 for a 1 month bus pass (thankfully I get free rides from my school), and the bus doesn't even come that close to where I live. Also, the pedestrian and bike infrastructure is atrocious outside of downtown, and some select other areas. Good thing I'm going into civil engineering, because I am going to need the money just to pay living costs and get to work!
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Scott5114

The biggest fallacy in transportation planning is when someone assumes we must have either 100% transit-centered or 100% car-centered. They can and should coexist, and the ideal city design accommodates people that want to live both lifestyles.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

It's worth noting that there's some definitional incongruence here.  A "street" in the view of Strong Towns is a busy, dense area where it's practically impossible to go even remotely fast.  Something like this (at the most suburban).  A road, by contrast, is focused on moving traffic, with little/no local access.  A "stroad" is a hybrid of the two that's considered highly offensive to modern Urbanism.  We don't have very many streets in the US or Canada by that definition; we do have roads, though not as many as one would think (especially in urban/suburban areas), and almost everything is a stroad.

This video from Not Just Bikes talks about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SkyPesos

Quote from: vdeane on October 19, 2021, 10:26:25 PM
It's worth noting that there's some definitional incongruence here.  A "street" in the view of Strong Towns is a busy, dense area where it's practically impossible to go even remotely fast.  Something like this (at the most suburban).  A road, by contrast, is focused on moving traffic, with little/no local access.  A "stroad" is a hybrid of the two that's considered highly offensive to modern Urbanism.  We don't have very many streets in the US or Canada by that definition; we do have roads, though not as many as one would think (especially in urban/suburban areas), and almost everything is a stroad.

This video from Not Just Bikes talks about it:
[video clipped]
Sometimes, I wonder how much local access a road can have before turning into the stroads category. There's a portion of US 22 (Montgomery Rd) in my area with a fixed median (which is a good sign vs the more common dual left turn lane that are generally associated with stroads). Speed limit is 40 (as most of the rest of US 22 is definitely a stroad), but I see a lot of drivers go up to 50 or 55 for the less than usual unprotected access. Though there's some unsignalized access to two neighborhood roads in this stretch, which is a quality of a stroad.

He pointed out in the book an example of a "good stroad": Esplanade in Chico, CA. The side "frontage lanes" act as a street for local access, while the center lanes are a road, only intersect with major cross-streets. Not sure what the general opinion on these type of roads are on the forum, as examples are rare in the US.

Btw, you probably posted the wrong NJB video link above, as you posted the one about speed limits, not the one about stroads.

vdeane

#23
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 12:16:12 AM
He pointed out in the book an example of a "good stroad": Esplanade in Chico, CA. The side "frontage lanes" act as a street for local access, while the center lanes are a road, only intersect with major cross-streets. Not sure what the general opinion on these type of roads are on the forum, as examples are rare in the US.
There are a few around NYC (like Queens Boulevard and Ocean Parkway).

Quote
Btw, you probably posted the wrong NJB video link above, as you posted the one about speed limits, not the one about stroads.
Nope, it's intentional.  Note that the complaints about the speed limit graph are about him defining our residential roads with 25-30 mph speed limits as "stroads".  The video also includes a brief overview of the definitions.

Note that I went from re-watching the video to deciding to post in this thread rather than the other way around.  I didn't even think about the video specifically about stroads.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Ned Weasel

Quote from: vdeane on October 20, 2021, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on October 20, 2021, 12:16:12 AM
He pointed out in the book an example of a "good stroad": Esplanade in Chico, CA. The side "frontage lanes" act as a street for local access, while the center lanes are a road, only intersect with major cross-streets. Not sure what the general opinion on these type of roads are on the forum, as examples are rare in the US.
There are a few around NYC (like Queens Boulevard and Ocean Parkway).

There's a whole book about multi-way boulevards, and it's been out for kind of a long time: https://www.amazon.com/Boulevard-Book-Evolution-Multiway-Boulevards/dp/0262100908/ .  I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more attention.  Maybe it's because the cover makes it look a lot less interesting than the subject matter actually is.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.