Why haven’t all gas stations stopped allowing people to get gas before they pay?

Started by thspfc, September 28, 2021, 10:47:38 PM

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thspfc

I'm not going to listen to another second of a gas station employee complaining about drive-offs at a store that allows people to get gas before they pay. It's such an easy fix to such a stupid problem. Either you pay at the pump or you prepay inside. Not a difficult concept. Yet stores still effectively allow people to steal gas, sometimes thousands of dollars worth a year, and act surprised when someone drives off.


Georgia

where did you see this? I have not paid after I pumped in the Southeast or Midwest in at least a decade.

abefroman329

The only times I can even remember pumping gas without having to prepay were in England.

Rothman

Quote from: thspfc on September 28, 2021, 10:47:38 PM
I'm not going to listen to another second of a gas station employee complaining about drive-offs at a store that allows people to get gas before they pay. It's such an easy fix to such a stupid problem. Either you pay at the pump or you prepay inside. Not a difficult concept. Yet stores still effectively allow people to steal gas, sometimes thousands of dollars worth a year, and act surprised when someone drives off.
Hm.  Gas pumps have asked for payment cards prior to pump authorization for decades now.  Can't remember the last time I could just pump gas...if at all in my lifetime.

I do remember when prepaying started though, when I was a kid.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Georgia on September 28, 2021, 11:10:08 PM
where did you see this? I have not paid after I pumped in the Southeast or Midwest in at least a decade.

Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2021, 11:12:58 PM
The only times I can even remember pumping gas without having to prepay were in England.

Minnesota and Wisconsin are two of the last places in the US where pay after pumping remains widely available. There are a few exceptions in high-crime areas or an oddball station here or there that has converted to prepay.

I can't say definitively why this is the case, but one thing to remember about gas stations is their profit margins on gas sales are thin and most of their income comes from concession sales inside. There are a fair number of gas station owners who feel pay after pumping encourages people to come inside and add food/beverages onto their total in one transaction. I can say from experience that when I travel, I am unlikely to both pay for gas at the pump and then go inside for a second transaction for concessions. Unless I'm parched, I'll drive for a while longer and then make a concession-only stop at a different gas station.
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Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Rothman on September 28, 2021, 11:49:55 PM
I dunno.  I don't remember paying after pumping when I lived in Superior.

Is that because you don't remember it being an option, or because you chose to pay at the pump regardless?
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bing101

Quote from: thspfc on September 28, 2021, 10:47:38 PM
I'm not going to listen to another second of a gas station employee complaining about drive-offs at a store that allows people to get gas before they pay. It's such an easy fix to such a stupid problem. Either you pay at the pump or you prepay inside. Not a difficult concept. Yet stores still effectively allow people to steal gas, sometimes thousands of dollars worth a year, and act surprised when someone drives off.


Do these gas stations even have pumps where the requirement is to activate by gas club card or credit card?


How low tech are these gas stations.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: bing101 on September 28, 2021, 11:56:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on September 28, 2021, 10:47:38 PM
I'm not going to listen to another second of a gas station employee complaining about drive-offs at a store that allows people to get gas before they pay. It's such an easy fix to such a stupid problem. Either you pay at the pump or you prepay inside. Not a difficult concept. Yet stores still effectively allow people to steal gas, sometimes thousands of dollars worth a year, and act surprised when someone drives off.


Do these gas stations even have pumps where the requirement is to activate by gas club card or credit card?

You can still pay at the pump if you wish or prepay with the cashier. You're just not forced to do so.
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Scott5114

Quote from: thspfc on September 28, 2021, 10:47:38 PM
I'm not going to listen to another second of a gas station employee complaining about drive-offs at a store that allows people to get gas before they pay. It's such an easy fix to such a stupid problem.

Yeah, it is. You pay at the pump so you don't have to listen to the employee complaining.
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SSOWorld

Walk into Kwik-Trip/Kwik-Star, where the company requires cashiers to verify with all customers if they have any fuel to purchase - every one.  I can tell the cashiers are bored to death of it.

Cashier: "any gas out there?"
Me: "They're your tanks, I don't get paid to verify there's gas out there."
Scott O.

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andarcondadont

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Georgia on September 28, 2021, 11:10:08 PM
where did you see this? I have not paid after I pumped in the Southeast or Midwest in at least a decade.

Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2021, 11:12:58 PM
The only times I can even remember pumping gas without having to prepay were in England.

Minnesota and Wisconsin are two of the last places in the US where pay after pumping remains widely available. There are a few exceptions in high-crime areas or an oddball station here or there that has converted to prepay.

I can't say definitively why this is the case, but one thing to remember about gas stations is their profit margins on gas sales are thin and most of their income comes from concession sales inside. There are a fair number of gas station owners who feel pay after pumping encourages people to come inside and add food/beverages onto their total in one transaction. I can say from experience that when I travel, I am unlikely to both pay for gas at the pump and then go inside for a second transaction for concessions. Unless I'm parched, I'll drive for a while longer and then make a concession-only stop at a different gas station.

Where in Minnesota are these stations? I mean, I'm not going to stop paying for gas, but I'm curious :biggrin:

Computer Science and GIS student at the University of Minnesota.

Rothman

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 28, 2021, 11:49:55 PM
I dunno.  I don't remember paying after pumping when I lived in Superior.

Is that because you don't remember it being an option, or because you chose to pay at the pump regardless?
Definitely don't remember it being an option.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Georgia on September 28, 2021, 11:10:08 PM
where did you see this? I have not paid after I pumped in the Southeast or Midwest in at least a decade.

Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2021, 11:12:58 PM
The only times I can even remember pumping gas without having to prepay were in England.

Minnesota and Wisconsin are two of the last places in the US where pay after pumping remains widely available. There are a few exceptions in high-crime areas or an oddball station here or there that has converted to prepay.

I can't say definitively why this is the case, but one thing to remember about gas stations is their profit margins on gas sales are thin and most of their income comes from concession sales inside. There are a fair number of gas station owners who feel pay after pumping encourages people to come inside and add food/beverages onto their total in one transaction. I can say from experience that when I travel, I am unlikely to both pay for gas at the pump and then go inside for a second transaction for concessions. Unless I'm parched, I'll drive for a while longer and then make a concession-only stop at a different gas station.

I almost always go inside after paying at the pump, if not to get food/drink, to use the restroom at least. Don't know why I would want to make two stops when it can all happen in one.
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SectorZ

At least around me I can't think of any places that you can pump before paying. I knew of a few places the end of the 1990's or so that did and stopped. At this point the only pumps that don't need to be pre-approved are full-service, but someone is there to prevent them from being used anyways.

I also know of this from a police officer that told me, but some local police departments stopped investigating drive-offs without paying because it was an easy problem to solve. There was a bit of shock that gas stations would have cameras to monitor cars coming in and out, but not put in a simple measure to prevent the theft. This was probably what forced some stations hands to fix it.

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: SSOWorld on September 29, 2021, 04:54:53 AM
Walk into Kwik-Trip/Kwik-Star, where the company requires cashiers to verify with all customers if they have any fuel to purchase - every one.  I can tell the cashiers are bored to death of it.

Cashier: "any gas out there?"
Me: "They're your tanks, I don't get paid to verify there's gas out there."

i'm way too much of a smartass to let them off that easy.
my answer would have been 'a little.. last night was enchilada night..'
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jakeroot

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:46:31 PM
I can't say definitively why this is the case, but one thing to remember about gas stations is their profit margins on gas sales are thin and most of their income comes from concession sales inside. There are a fair number of gas station owners who feel pay after pumping encourages people to come inside and add food/beverages onto their total in one transaction. I can say from experience that when I travel, I am unlikely to both pay for gas at the pump and then go inside for a second transaction for concessions. Unless I'm parched, I'll drive for a while longer and then make a concession-only stop at a different gas station.

The only flaw in the logic here, from my understanding, is the idea that someone would get tricked into buying more than fuel if they have to come inside to pay. You've already indicated that paying at the pump remains an option, as opposed to a requirement, so why would a driver who's not interested in buying snacks/drinks not simply pay the regular way and drive off once filled up?

Sometimes, if I want snacks, I will go into the store first, grab whatever I need, and then indicate how much fuel I want to the clerk. This way, I can make a single purchase (same as if I filled up first, to be fair), but then I can enjoy whatever I bought while I wait. This method does require me to guess how much fuel I want, but then I don't need a full tank, so I'm happy to low-ball the guess most of the time. This method is also quite handy if I want to pay with a single bill, say $20: subtract the purchased items from the bill amount, and "put the rest on pump 6" (or whatever).

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: andarcondadont on September 29, 2021, 06:42:55 AM
Where in Minnesota are these stations? I mean, I'm not going to stop paying for gas, but I'm curious :biggrin:

They're almost universal in this state. I can count all of about 3 stations I've come across that are prepay only - Kwik Trip in West Duluth (which seemed to have been prompted by theft issues shortly after they opened), Shell in Rogers, and Speedway on Shady Oak Rd in Eden Prairie.

Quote from: Rothman on September 29, 2021, 06:43:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:55:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 28, 2021, 11:49:55 PM
I dunno.  I don't remember paying after pumping when I lived in Superior.

Is that because you don't remember it being an option, or because you chose to pay at the pump regardless?
Definitely don't remember it being an option.

If that was the case, it must have changed after you left. I almost never pay at the pump in MN/WI, so I would remember if I couldn't pay after pump in Superior.
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hbelkins

I've seen a number of stations that have prepay only at certain pumps. Depends on the visibility of the pump from the cash register.

Although with cameras everywhere, drive-offs shouldn't really be an issue.

Prepay was a very new concept around here in the early 80s. I wasn't a fan, because I liked to fill up my vehicle and never knew how much it was going to cost. If you give them too much, you have to go back in and get your change. If you don't give them enough, the pump shuts off and you don't get a full tank.

An acceptable compromise should be letting them hold your driver's license while you pump.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

triplemultiplex

There are still some places in the world where they actually trust other people to behave responsibly. :-P
Pay after you pump was the norm for me until I moved to Milwaukee after college.
Fill it up, go in and take a leak, grab a beverage or two, maybe something to munch on, and pay for it all at once.

Pre-pay assumes I'm a criminal as the default and it feels rather insulting when one isn't used to pre-pay.  To me, it would be like going into a store and someone tells me I have to pre-pay for whatever I'm there to buy.  As if I'm assumed to be a thief without cause.

But the convenience of pay at the pump soon overrode this perception.  It is just easier.  If the gas station wants to pay twice the fees to the credit card companies to process additional transactions, that's on them.
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CtrlAltDel

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 29, 2021, 07:50:51 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 28, 2021, 11:46:31 PM

I can say from experience that when I travel, I am unlikely to both pay for gas at the pump and then go inside for a second transaction for concessions. Unless I'm parched, I'll drive for a while longer and then make a concession-only stop at a different gas station.

I almost always go inside after paying at the pump, if not to get food/drink, to use the restroom at least. Don't know why I would want to make two stops when it can all happen in one.

I'm in this second camp as well. I pay at the pump, and then go to the bathroom, and then, from time to time, I'll get a snack and a drink. Also, if I'm getting some fast food, I'll get that after getting gas and before returning to the highway. That way, I don't have to make a stop for just one thing later on.

Perhaps oddly, I won't usually get gas at the same time I stop for the night at a hotel. That's perhaps because, as often as not, I'm camping, and gas isn't as readily available.
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jeffandnicole

Most people paying with cash, pay after their tank is filled in New Jersey!  :bigass:

Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:05:33 PM
Although with cameras everywhere, drive-offs shouldn't really be an issue.

While cameras certainly help identify the offenders, many stations won't pursue someone who only drives off once, since the cost to prosecute would be more than the cost of the fuel lost. Do it several times, be a habitual offender, and it becomes more worthy to pursue and convict...and that's where the cameras certainly become useful.

Takumi

Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:05:33 PM
An acceptable compromise should be letting them hold your driver's license while you pump.
When I worked at 7-Eleven, some 15 years ago, that was an option. The only issue with that is that you still have to go inside first.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
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Don't @ me. Seriously.

thspfc

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 29, 2021, 05:13:15 PM
There are still some places in the world where they actually trust other people to behave responsibly. :-P
Pay after you pump was the norm for me until I moved to Milwaukee after college.
Fill it up, go in and take a leak, grab a beverage or two, maybe something to munch on, and pay for it all at once.

Pre-pay assumes I'm a criminal as the default and it feels rather insulting when one isn't used to pre-pay.  To me, it would be like going into a store and someone tells me I have to pre-pay for whatever I'm there to buy.  As if I'm assumed to be a thief without cause.
There's a difference between being optimistic and denying reality; this falls into the latter category.

thspfc

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 29, 2021, 05:29:39 PM
Most people paying with cash, pay after their tank is filled in New Jersey!  :bigass:

Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:05:33 PM
Although with cameras everywhere, drive-offs shouldn't really be an issue.

While cameras certainly help identify the offenders, many stations won't pursue someone who only drives off once, since the cost to prosecute would be more than the cost of the fuel lost. Do it several times, be a habitual offender, and it becomes more worthy to pursue and convict...and that's where the cameras certainly become useful.
Can confirm. Kwik Trip has security cameras EVERYWHERE - wherever you are at on their property, you are being taped, probably by multiple cameras at once. Yet I still hear their employees talking about drive-offs all the time.



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