Redundant Name in Usage

[J N Winkler]

Another foreign-language example:  "vegetable con carne" presented as the vegetarian alternative to "chili con carne" (!).

[1995hoo]

'Please RSVP' is probably my all time biggest wedding pet peeve, along with 'Have you RSVPed yet?'

the RSVP one, which has come up several times in this thread, is to me the least peevy - it is a result of applying prescriptive terms to language (see: Academie Francaise) as opposed to letting language evolve by itself.

in the US, "RSVP" is a verb without any knowledge of what it means in the original French, because we borrowed it from the original French many centuries ago!  sure, it's ignorant, but it's nowhere near the most ignorant use of language we've got going.  (I'm looking at you, "your" vs. "you're".)

while we're borrowing French poorly, the plural of "hors d'oeuvre" is "hors d'oeuvre", not "hors d'oeuvres".  but, whatever.  Just as long as we don't spell it "orderves"!

I've only recently (within the past 10 years) started to see "RSVP" used as a verb or as a synonym for "reservations." When I was a kid I remember invitations would simply say, for example, "RSVP 867-5309" or whatever. Everybody understood that this meant to call Jenny to say whether or not you were coming. I don't understand why, if you want to say "Please RSVP," you don't just say "Please respond."

[kphoger]

I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).

A friend of mine actually got called out on this at Qdoba the other day when he ordered a "quesadilla with grilled chicken and cheese". The employee pointed out "you know, you don't need to say cheese. That's what the 'quesa' in 'quesadilla' means!"

Admittedly though, that is one I often purposefully do to distinguish from a chicken quesadilla, etc.

At Taco Bell, I will order a 'plain quesadilla'.  The person on the other end asks, 'a cheese quesadilla?'  I want to reply, 'What other kind is there?'

[agentsteel53]

I don't understand why, if you want to say "Please RSVP," you don't just say "Please respond."

for various reasons, "Please RSVP" sounds more classy (even though it really isn't)

[Mr_Northside]

I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).

A friend of mine actually got called out on this at Qdoba the other day when he ordered a "quesadilla with grilled chicken and cheese". The employee pointed out "you know, you don't need to say cheese. That's what the 'quesa' in 'quesadilla' means!"

Admittedly though, that is one I often purposefully do to distinguish from a chicken quesadilla, etc.

At Taco Bell, I will order a 'plain quesadilla'.  The person on the other end asks, 'a cheese quesadilla?'  I want to reply, 'What other kind is there?'

When I worked at a pizza shop, I always thought pretty much the same thing when people would order a "cheese pizza", as opposed to just using the word "plain". 
At least once, I did ask someone, ordering 2 pizzas by saying something like "I'd like a large pepperoni pizza, and a large cheese pizza": "Would you like cheese on that pepperoni pizza?".  They didn't seem to get it, and were just like "Well, yeah..."

[kphoger]

I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).

A friend of mine actually got called out on this at Qdoba the other day when he ordered a "quesadilla with grilled chicken and cheese". The employee pointed out "you know, you don't need to say cheese. That's what the 'quesa' in 'quesadilla' means!"

Admittedly though, that is one I often purposefully do to distinguish from a chicken quesadilla, etc.

At Taco Bell, I will order a 'plain quesadilla'.  The person on the other end asks, 'a cheese quesadilla?'  I want to reply, 'What other kind is there?'

When I worked at a pizza shop, I always thought pretty much the same thing when people would order a "cheese pizza", as opposed to just using the word "plain". 
At least once, I did ask someone, ordering 2 pizzas by saying something like "I'd like a large pepperoni pizza, and a large cheese pizza": "Would you like cheese on that pepperoni pizza?".  They didn't seem to get it, and were just like "Well, yeah..."

I say "cheese pizza", although I understand your point.  The subtle difference is that the word quesadilla actually comes from the Spanish word for cheese.  I have personally had pizza with no cheese, so it is a possiblity; a cheeseless quesadilla, OTOH, is a contradiction in terms.  Cheeseless pizza is like a salad without lettuce:  not the norm, but certainly possible.  A cheeseless quesadilla is like a virgin martini:  an impossiblity.

[Scott5114]

As for RSVP, I imagine some people using "please" is because if the recipient doesn't know "RSVP" includes "please" in it, they might interpret it as an imperative, which could come off as rude.

"Ink pen" is one that I've caught myself using. Again, this is partly because in an Oklahoma accent "pen" and "pin" sound the same, so it disambiguates between an "ink pen" and a "safety pin" or something. I've also found myself using "ink pen" to stress that the referred-to pen is just an ordinary pedestrian pen. I once expressed to a Michigander friend that I was amazed that she was able to draw a rather beautiful work of art with "just an ink pen". When this confused her, I realized that I was using "ink pen" to specify that the pen used was a boring old ballpoint rather than a fancy specialized pen designed for inking artwork.

[Special K]

LED Light

Nope. The light that the diodes emit is not the same as the physical light (bulb).

It's a light-emitting light.

[kphoger]

LED Light

Nope. The light that the diodes emit is not the same as the physical light (bulb).

It's a light-emitting light.

In point of fact, the phrase LED light would most commonly refer to an assembly of many light-emitting diodes.  For example, the taillight of you car could be composed of multiple LEDs, while the whole assembly would still be referred to as a light (as in, 'your left rear light is out').

[english si]

I say "cheese pizza", although I understand your point.  The subtle difference is that the word quesadilla actually comes from the Spanish word for cheese.  I have personally had pizza with no cheese, so it is a possiblity; a cheeseless quesadilla, OTOH, is a contradiction in terms.  Cheeseless pizza is like a salad without lettuce:  not the norm, but certainly possible.  A cheeseless quesadilla is like a virgin martini:  an impossiblity.

I've had chocolate pizza. Had far more lettuce-less salads (given in the US a salad is typically 80% the blandest lettuce possible and then some other stuff, I can see what you mean): eg tomato and mozzarella, pasta salad, bean salad and my favourite - rocket and watercress salad (though those are, of course, leaves, while not being actually lettuce). In fact, I've probably had about as many leaves-less salads as with-leaves salads.

I wouldn't use the term 'cheese pizza', but certainly menus would list the cheese as a topping, 'Margherita' is typically considered posh, so 'cheese and tomato' is typically what those pizzas are called if not trying to be upmarket. However, cheese-less pizzas - when I've actually seen them - have normally said that they were cheese-less in large letters and arrows pointing to it.

[1995hoo]

I've heard the term "cheese pizza" used, but if I want a pizza with no toppings (say on a Friday during Lent) I ask for "plain cheese."

I associate the term "cheese pizza" with the Friday school lunch menu when I was in grammar school–Friday was pizza day and the menu listed "Cheese pizza" and "Meat/cheese pizza." (I never tried either one, always brought my lunch.) I always found the "Meat/cheese" description amusing because everybody else says "pepperoni" or "sausage" or whatever and so the "Meat/cheese" fit right in with the old "mystery meat" description of school food.

Just about every pizza joint I've ever patronized does not treat the regular cheese as a topping and simply presumes it's part of the pizza. The people who don't eat dairy products (vega-whatever-they-call-themselves) have to make a special request for a pizza without cheese.

[kphoger]

OK, but the fact remains that the term 'cheese pizza' is no more redundant than 'sugar cookie'.

[Special K]

OK, but the fact remains that the term 'cheese pizza' is no more redundant than 'sugar cookie'.

Cheese pizza to differentiate from "cheese" pizza.

[agentsteel53]

this is partly because in an Oklahoma accent "pen" and "pin" sound the same

is this the accent in which "ice" and "ass" sound the same?  I think it was a running gag on something set in north Texas, but Oklahoma is close to there.

[vtk]

There's a term for this kind of redundancy:

RAS Syndrome
("Redundant Acronym Syndrome Syndrome")

[kphoger]

OK, but the fact remains that the term 'cheese pizza' is no more redundant than 'sugar cookie'.

Cheese pizza to differentiate from "cheese" pizza.

The only way I can get this sentence to make sense to me is to read it as an imperative.  So, OK, I shall henceforth cheese my pizza in order to differentiate it from "cheese" pizza, which "I" assume is "not" "made" with "real" "cheese".

[roadman]

Foreign language ones happen all the time....
I eat roast beef au jus.  I don't eat it with au jus sauce.
I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).
I like burritos con queso.  I don't like burritos with con queso (or with con queso cheese).
'Please RSVP' is probably my all time biggest wedding pet peeve, along with 'Have you RSVPed yet?'

Has anyone heard of Halloween Eve?  I like to call it October 30 instead.  Then there's Christmas Eve Day for December 24.  I think I'm going to start calling December 22 'Christmas Eve Eve Eve Day'.

Growing up as kids, we used to call December 23rd 'Chirstmas Adam" (the logic is that, if you believe the Book of Genesis, Adam came before Eve).  But Halloween, which is the day before All Saints Day (November 1st) , was originally called "All Hallows Eve".  So calling October 30th "Haloween Eve" makes no sense at all.

[Scott5114]

this is partly because in an Oklahoma accent "pen" and "pin" sound the same

is this the accent in which "ice" and "ass" sound the same?  I think it was a running gag on something set in north Texas, but Oklahoma is close to there.

That's a Texas accent, which is like a much more extreme version of the milder Oklahoma accent. You only start running into that sort of thing south of Ardmore or so (though I have a coworker with that accent, and she's from Ada, so maybe it varies).

[kphoger]

Foreign language ones happen all the time....
I eat roast beef au jus.  I don't eat it with au jus sauce.
I eat quesadillas.  I don't eat cheese quesadillas (Taco Bell, I'm looking at you).
I like burritos con queso.  I don't like burritos with con queso (or with con queso cheese).
'Please RSVP' is probably my all time biggest wedding pet peeve, along with 'Have you RSVPed yet?'

Has anyone heard of Halloween Eve?  I like to call it October 30 instead.  Then there's Christmas Eve Day for December 24.  I think I'm going to start calling December 22 'Christmas Eve Eve Eve Day'.

Growing up as kids, we used to call December 23rd 'Chirstmas Adam" (the logic is that, if you believe the Book of Genesis, Adam came before Eve).  But Halloween, which is the day before All Saints Day (November 1st) , was originally called "All Hallows Eve".  So calling October 30th "Haloween Eve" makes no sense at all.

If you flip back one chapter in Genesis, then you'll find Adam and Eve both being created on the sixth day, so it gets a little tricky to work backwards from December 23.  But my alternative would be to call December 20 'Christmas Sky' and December 19 'Christmas Night'.  Anything before December 19 would be 'Christmas Nihilo', and exists only in Alanland.  Five is right out.

I believe November 1 is All Saints Day a.k.a. All Hallows Day, making October 31 All Hallows Eve ergo Halloween.  That would make October 30 Halloween Eve.  Or Hallowe'e'e'e'n.

[SSOWorld]

Isn't October 30 Devil's night? </The Crow>