News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

30 lane highways in Egypt

Started by Chris, May 29, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Chris

Fascinating and absurdly designed, Egypt has built several highways with as much as 30 lanes in the desert east of Cairo recently. New Google Earth satellite images show these new highways.

Egypt is on a highway construction spree, for example they built a 367 kilometer / 228 mile outer beltway of Cairo and widened their existing ring road to 16 lanes. They are developing the whole zone between Cairo and the Suez Canal in a Dubai / Qatar-like style, but perhaps even more over the top.











J N Winkler

Has anyone managed to find design manuals or contract documents for these highways?  I've looked at the SkyscraperCity thread dealing with Egyptian highway infrastructure and it seems most of the information comes from satellite imagery, non-Egyptians going to Egypt and taking pictures, and (apparent) Egyptians reporting from the inside.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Road Hog

Obviously it's a pyramid scheme.

index

Is this for that stupid new capital city of theirs? A lot of people are so impressed over it because "ooh shiny big buildings and roads" but it's yet another vanity project for autocratic Middle Eastern leaders and their wealthy inner circles. That, and the layout makes it difficult for protests to organize.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

jakeroot

This whole region of Egypt looks like it was designed in a video game. Nonsensical number of lanes, no clear intersection control at all. I mean, the world's biggest cities don't have roads this wide. Because, well, it doesn't work. It's just gonna lock up if traffic ever gets to the point where a seven lane roundabout would even be necessary.

The five lane slip ramps between the freeways and other roads are probably my "favorite" element. Like I said ... designed in a video game.


Quote from: index on May 30, 2023, 03:34:41 AM
...it's yet another vanity project for autocratic Middle Eastern leaders and their wealthy inner circles.


abefroman329


zachary_amaryllis

I just can't see that going well if there were more than like twelve cars at a time. Those merges....

Does one just ... sail out there and say 'well, good luck everyone!'?
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

J N Winkler

The treatments (or lack thereof) at the ramp terminals are one of the key reasons I ask about design manuals and contract documentation.  If these highways are actually to be useful (even in the minimal sense of supporting the continuing prestige of the military dictatorship), they will need to be narrowed in order to resolve the blatant lane balance and continuity issues.

It also looks like there is no roadside development (adjacent property seems to begin at the back of the shoulder), and I'd bet the hydrology and hydraulic design would struggle with even a brief desert shower.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

jakeroot

I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around what I'm seeing. It is on the verge of being almost unbelievable.

A lot of this Egyptian infrastructure reminds me of something that was built back when cars were first becoming popular, and they didn't know how intersection control was supposed to work. I think this is best exemplified in the US with the original intersection just west of Dallas's Triple Underpass, where three roads merged into a single road using only very minimal traffic control. It may have worked "per se" but long-term it was far too hectic. Much the same as this Egyptian infrastructure will ultimately be. It is going to be curtailed.

The intersection in Dallas I am referring to...you can see it in this YouTube video about a minute in:


Chris

A 5-lane cloverleaf loop ramp:



A 28 lane collector/express system


Also, they built giant gates like this on major access roads to the new city.


Then, there is the 'Octagon'.







seicer

Those slip ramps have two lanes for the briefest of times.

hotdogPi

Something I'm not understanding: Why aren't these roads being used? Egypt is the 14th most populous country in the world, and its population is very concentrated in a small area.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13,44,50
MA 22,40,107,109,117,119,126,141,159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; UK A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; FR95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 25 (updated from 14)

New: MA 14, 123

wanderer2575

Quote from: Chris on May 31, 2023, 07:47:55 AM
A 5-lane cloverleaf loop ramp:



Five lanes narrow down to one at the merge point.  What could possibly go wrong?

I would love an overhead view of one of these in Los Angeles or Chicago.

Chris

Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2023, 11:16:56 AM
Something I'm not understanding: Why aren't these roads being used? Egypt is the 14th most populous country in the world, and its population is very concentrated in a small area.

These roads are built in the desert between Cairo and the Suez Canal. That whole area is being developed at a grand scale. But for now there isn't much traffic yet.

Traffic in Cairo itself is known to be horrendous.

CovalenceSTU

#14
Their use of lanes is so nonsensical it looks like a Cities: Skylines noob found the Roads tab of the workshop for the first time  :bigass:

10 lane freeway turns into 28:

before 6 lanes dissappear in an interchange less then a mile away:


12 lanes into 32 (33 lanes out of frame, possibly the widest freeway in the world?), hopefully there's a "Good Luck" sign for the poor soul making 10 merges in 500ft :colorful:


8 lane roads and 5 lane roundabouts in a parking lot, because why not:


6 lane road spam and unrealistic lane splits on a cloverleaf is a certified Cities: Skylines moment:


There's also lots of U-turns with 3 lanes in the middle and 1 lane on both sides.

jakeroot

Quote from: CovalenceSTU on May 31, 2023, 04:43:18 PM
8 lane roads and 5 lane roundabouts in a parking lot, because why not:


This is genuinely very creepy.

Scott5114

This looks like what you'd get if you had Stable Diffusion generate satellite imagery of roads.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Joe The Dragon

why go so big but have only clover leafs?
cut the road size and put in flyovers

wanderer2575

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 02, 2023, 03:00:58 PM
why go so big but have only clover leafs?
cut the road size and put in flyovers

Why not both?  Let's see some 12-lane flyovers.

zachary_amaryllis

"The Octagon"

aka What happens when you put roundabouts, in the middle of a roundabout.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

algorerhythms

#20
Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2023, 11:16:56 AM
Something I'm not understanding: Why aren't these roads being used? Egypt is the 14th most populous country in the world, and its population is very concentrated in a small area.
These roads aren't meant to be used (at least not by normal people). They're built just so the dictator can say he has the biggest road. The hoi polloi in Egypt can barely afford a car, let alone be wealthy enough to be allowed into the dictator's special playground in the desert.

Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2023, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on May 31, 2023, 04:43:18 PM
8 lane roads and 5 lane roundabouts in a parking lot, because why not:


This is genuinely very creepy.
Every cafe needs a parking lot large enough to seat a moderately-sized baseball stadium.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: jakeroot on May 30, 2023, 04:36:43 AM
I mean, the world's biggest cities don't have roads this wide. Because, well, it doesn't work.
How do you know if it doesn't work if it doesn't exist?

I like the number of lanes, but the overall design of these freeways suck. Namely, the lack of merging lanes. How do they not understand this?

algorerhythms

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 03, 2023, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 30, 2023, 04:36:43 AM
I mean, the world's biggest cities don't have roads this wide. Because, well, it doesn't work.
How do you know if it doesn't work if it doesn't exist?

I like the number of lanes, but the overall design of these freeways suck. Namely, the lack of merging lanes. How do they not understand this?
Ontario Highway 401 is 18 lanes wide in Toronto, and it doesn't work. I highly doubt that adding another 12 lanes would fix it.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: algorerhythms on June 03, 2023, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 03, 2023, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 30, 2023, 04:36:43 AM
I mean, the world's biggest cities don't have roads this wide. Because, well, it doesn't work.
How do you know if it doesn't work if it doesn't exist?

I like the number of lanes, but the overall design of these freeways suck. Namely, the lack of merging lanes. How do they not understand this?
Ontario Highway 401 is 18 lanes wide in Toronto, and it doesn't work. I highly doubt that adding another 12 lanes would fix it.
Seems to work moving more cars than any other freeway in the world so I'd think another 12 lanes would definitely help for the next 30 years at minimum.

Mapmikey

IMO, large numbers of lanes will work in an urban area only if a significant portion of the traffic is not entering/exiting the freeway within the urban area and can be physically separated from the rest of the lanes.

you can increase the effectiveness (to a point) by having entrances and exits on the left and right at each interchange.  Otherwise, you will have people who have to change multiple lanes after entering and again prior to exiting in order for the full capacity to be used.  In an urban area this would result in multilane weaving at multiple entry/exit points.  Given how single weaving situations clog traffic in urban areas now, I can't believe adding multiple lanes' worth of cars doing this makes it better.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.