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When Your Travel Direction Differs from Route Direction

Started by AlexandriaVA, November 25, 2016, 02:15:49 PM

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hotdogPi

Quote from: roadman on November 29, 2016, 02:18:07 PM
MA 111 is a north/south route, but runs east/west between Acton and Harvard.  In the MassDPW days, District 3 actually signed the Acton to Harvard section as east/west.

There's no way around this. There is a 90˚ switch at the New Hampshire border, and a 180˚ switch would be extremely confusing.

Anyway, I can only find one place in Massachusetts where MA 111 is more than 90˚ off its posted designation. A lot of these examples are less than 90˚ off (the OP's example of "people on 395 northbound briefly go east-southeast" is about 110˚ off).
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CNGL-Leudimin

Quote from: coatimundi on November 29, 2016, 11:34:14 AM
Then, in the Bay Area, there's the famous I-238, which is signed north/south but only runs east/west.

I-238 continues past the I-580 interchange/bump as CA 238, which is more North-South (but still mostly NW-SE).
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

PHLBOS

Another one (or two) for I-95 in NJ:

The stretch between the PA border and US 1 (north of Trenton) runs predominantly east-west.  When this highway gets redesignated as I-295 (once the thru-I-95 ramps to/from the PA Turnpike are completed); this direction oddity will still exist except the north-south directions will be switched (per the current plans).

The PA Turnpike Connector of the NJ Turnpike, which will be signed as I-95 once the fore-mentioned interchange is completed, runs east-west.
---------------------------------------
I-295 in DE runs east-west but is signed north-south (as a continuation of its N-S run in NJ).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

GaryV

How about the switchbacks and 360-degree loop on US-441 in Great Smoky Mountain National Park?

vdeane

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 04:52:45 PM
The stretch between the PA border and US 1 (north of Trenton) runs predominantly east-west.  When this highway gets redesignated as I-295 (once the thru-I-95 ramps to/from the PA Turnpike are completed); this direction oddity will still exist except the north-south directions will be switched (per the current plans).
I would think having a road switch directly from north-south to south-north at a state border would be confusing.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

GaryV

Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 05:57:54 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 04:52:45 PM
The stretch between the PA border and US 1 (north of Trenton) runs predominantly east-west.  When this highway gets redesignated as I-295 (once the thru-I-95 ramps to/from the PA Turnpike are completed); this direction oddity will still exist except the north-south directions will be switched (per the current plans).
I would think having a road switch directly from north-south to south-north at a state border would be confusing.
As opposed to at a random little town in Tennessee (US-321).

jeffe


US-101 (Ventura Freeway) in Los Angeles heads east and west but is signed as north and south along with the rest of 101 in California.

In this photo you can see the entrance assembly and the newer signage use north/south, while the city maintained sign on the traffic signal mast arm is east:



However, the original signage for the Ventura Freeway was east/west.




There is also I-80/I-580 in Berkeley awhere you can head both east and west as the same time while your actual direction is either north or south:


SSOWorld

WIS 13 is consistently S/N despite doing a complete U along the Wisconsin Indianhead. There is one point where despite being signed such it is completely 180 out of whack.

On the other hand WIS 23 actually has its cardinal direction changed at the Dells.

A perfect defiance of this would be belt routes (AZ Loops, KC, DC, Balty, Indy, etc).  The cardinal direction is based on what side it's on.
Scott O.

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 04:52:45 PM
I-295 in DE runs east-west but is signed north-south (as a continuation of its N-S run in NJ).

I always thought this is one of the better examples because not only does it run mostly E-W, but really NE-SW.  For the most part starting between 95 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge, I-295 South veers north for a few miles, and I-295 North goes in a southerly direction until you get into NJ.

PHLBOS

Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2016, 05:57:54 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 29, 2016, 04:52:45 PM
The stretch between the PA border and US 1 (north of Trenton) runs predominantly east-west.  When this highway gets redesignated as I-295 (once the thru-I-95 ramps to/from the PA Turnpike are completed); this direction oddity will still exist except the north-south directions will be switched (per the current plans).
I would think having a road switch directly from north-south to south-north at a state border would be confusing.
Correct, which is one (ill-advised & flat out stupid IMHO) reason why the current plan for the PA portion of I-95 north of the Turnpike interchange will be signed as I-295 east-west once the connection is completed; even though the road runs clearly north-south.

Since the above has been intensively discussed in the I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange thread; I'll stop right now.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Yeah, that's also stupid (and introduces another example).  If they insist on I-295, it should be north-south in PA and east-west from the state line to US 1.  Is there a way to knock some sense into PennDOT and NJDOT?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: vdeane on November 30, 2016, 02:21:31 PM
Yeah, that's also stupid (and introduces another example).  If they insist on I-295, it should be north-south in PA and east-west from the state line to US 1.  Is there a way to knock some sense into PennDOT and NJDOT?

There's about a dozen different ways they could've signed the highway between the PA Turnpike and Exit 60 in NJ.  Every possibility has mostly disadvantages to it.  And as we've read, no disadvantage is unique.

Mrt90

#37
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on November 26, 2016, 12:49:04 PM
I-94 through Illinois is marked east-west, but is actually north-south with very little east-west component.  Taking I-94 "west" to Milwaukee, a city that is NNE of where I am, is an interesting stretch. Even if I understand why it's marked that way, it can be challenging to explain it to a newcomer to the area.

Also, I-95 through Connecticut is almost entirely east-west, despite being marked north-south.
I take that section of I-94 every day for over 25 years, and when I hear traffic reports I still have to think for a few seconds if the accident they are telling me about on I-94 East is actually south.

Also going north on I-94, once you get to Milwaukee, at the Mitchell Interchange if you are going downtown you take I-94 West which actually goes east for a bit.  And if you take the I-894 bypass instead (which is cosigned as I-894/I-41/I-43) and you are driving west you are also on I-41 North and I-43 South at the same time.  And on the way back when you take I-894 East you are also on I-41 South and I-43 North at the same time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9627397,-87.974217,3a,37.5y,327.81h,85.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWGv-thQKfmAa2uwgW3OMlw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

RestrictOnTheHanger

I-278 in Brooklyn/Queens NY. Signed as East/West for its entire length, but going east from the Verrazano Bridge to the Triboro Bridge means going North, west, north, east, north, and finally west. And vice versa.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: SSOWorld on November 30, 2016, 06:06:12 AM
WIS 13 is consistently S/N despite doing a complete U along the Wisconsin Indianhead. There is one point where despite being signed such it is completely 180 out of whack.

On the other hand WIS 23 actually has its cardinal direction changed at the Dells.

A perfect defiance of this would be belt routes (AZ Loops, KC, DC, Balty, Indy, etc).  The cardinal direction is based on what side it's on.

I found an old picture from when 13 used to duplex with US 2 west to the Arrowhead Bridge where they crossed into Minnesota (not sure when 13 was truncated to where it is now). It at least along that stretch was properly signed E-W.
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roadman65

US 98 is signed N-S between Okeechobee and US 27, but runs east to west.  Yet on the other side of Okeechobee, the road runs north and south, but signed E-W, specifically in Martin County cosigned with US 441 that is signed N-S.

How about US 209 between its southern terminus and I-80 at Stroudsburg?  It runs more east and west, and for a very long distance.

Then should US 62 be signed N-S in PA?  Yes that is ambiguous as it runs E-W near the OH border but takes on a NE-SW turn before running true N-S as it enters NY.  However, west of US 6 I believe it could be signed for east and west as it would not create confusion at all.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

hotdogPi

Quote from: roadman65 on December 06, 2016, 09:24:17 AM
US 98 is signed N-S between Okeechobee and US 27, but runs east to west.  Yet on the other side of Okeechobee, the road runs north and south, but signed E-W, specifically in Martin County cosigned with US 441 that is signed N-S.

How about US 209 between its southern terminus and I-80 at Stroudsburg?  It runs more east and west, and for a very long distance.

Then should US 62 be signed N-S in PA?  Yes that is ambiguous as it runs E-W near the OH border but takes on a NE-SW turn before running true N-S as it enters NY.  However, west of US 6 I believe it could be signed for east and west as it would not create confusion at all.

You're giving examples where anything more than 45˚ off should be included in this thread. Using that, almost every route would apply.

This thread is "south instead of north", not "east instead of north".
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Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

roadman65

Check your map, US 98 does at one point go north when south near the Kissimmee River.  Though did not make that clear, it indeed does.  Also US 209 does do the same near Jim Thorpe.

In addition I-95 in Fort Lee, NJ does a twist where it parallels NJ 4.

US 441 does the same in Great Smoky Mountains NP, and US 1 does in Key West and Big Pine down in the Keys.

My mistake for making the wrong examples of the right routes, but US 62 yes is off and a question that got stirred up within me when I got fired up about such routes.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

CNGL-Leudimin

#43
I consider an US route to go always East-West (if its number is even) or North-South (if odd) regardless of posted direction. So that US 98 example doesn't count for me as I consider it US 98 East. Same happens with US 321 at its US 441 overlap between Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge TN. Signed South when going North, should be North as well (due to the 'U turn' at Elizabethton, which I ignore for the purpose of this thread). But there are other parts of US 321 that are wrong-way for me but not in the field, such as at the I-40 overlap and just 'North' (South) of it, and just past Pigeon Forge. And basically most of its route in TN are somewhat wrong-way.

Another examples are the Eastern terminus of US 62 in Niagara Falls, which starts going East and signed South but should be West; and the already mentioned US 101 near its Northern terminus (starts going North and signed North... when it should be South).
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

roadman65

US 98 is iffy in the Florida Peninsula as it goes north to south for a considerable long distance. Yes it goes from a point in Mississippi to a place along the Atlantic Ocean further than the point north of Belle Glade to the intersection in Perry, but it is a regional importance route in our state, and to many locals is is a north to south highway.

US 62 like you said, is overall east to west making it a rare case of an east west highway going border to border and in its final run in Niagara Falls turns back the other way, just as US 1 does in Key West where heading into the southern terminus of the east coast route you are heading north.

I suppose to you US 42 is an east-west highway despite being signed north-south and paralleling the north-south interstate of I-71.  And as well I-24 is really north to south as well being that in the majority of its run which is in Tennessee is mainly north to south.

I respect your logic, and must as we all have the right to a great forum to create and freely discuss what we would like.  Its just our opinions different as we see things differently.  So I even though I disagree I am not knocking you for your thought which indeed has merit.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

paulthemapguy

I was going to bring up Wis-13 near Lake Superior,
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 30, 2016, 06:06:12 AM
WIS 13 is consistently S/N despite doing a complete U along the Wisconsin Indianhead. There is one point where despite being signed such it is completely 180 out of whack.
...so thanks SSOWorld for covering that one. 
It blows my mind that Illinois 113 is signed north-south when it goes primarily east-west.
I-94 is a great example from Milwaukee south through Illinois.

I-82 is signed as east-west, when it turns west-east (the opposite direction) just north of the OR/WA border.
I-40 has some switchbacks at the far western end of North Carolina
There's the I-64 wrap-around at its eastern end in the Tidewater region, but they rely pretty much on control cities and don't sign cardinal directions much in that area.
US51 runs about 110° away from its signed direction as it's multiplexed with Illinois 15 in Ashley, IL.

My best example:  At its "eastern" terminus, IL-33 runs east toward the Wabash River, as you pass this westbound reassurance marker: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7075756,-87.555717,3a,75y,195.22h,75.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPnMaiav6tMyNbyhIg6J69g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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TheHighwayMan3561

#46
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 07, 2016, 04:49:54 AM
the already mentioned US 10 near its Northern terminus (starts going North and signed North... when it should be South).

I believe it was originally done this way. Naturally, it confused the hell out of people so it was changed to what it is now.

In MN we have:
-I-35 between Cloquet and Duluth runs largely E-W, which results in a couple slight bends where going north means going slightly southeast and so forth.
-MN 9 is the strangest one, with a long "north going southwest" and "south going northeast" stretch between Benson and Sunburg along a greater E-W section between New London and Benson. This stretch used to have a different number but was changed to be part of MN 9. I guess I don't get that one.
-It could be argued that MN 16 eastbound is oriented NW when it enters La Crescent.
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CNGL-Leudimin

Now I've realized I made a typo. I obviously meant US 101, not US 10.

Another example of what should be: US 52 near Kingstree SC. There is a short section where it goes due West and it's signed South but should be East.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

michravera

Quote from: Inyomono395 on November 26, 2016, 11:48:33 AM
US 6 in california is marked as East-West but in reality it's North-South

There is a section of US-101 that is signed as North-South that runs principally East-West between Ventura and LA. There is a small dip through the San Gabriel mountains where the SB US-101 (running mostly east) dips a bit north and vice-versa.

thenetwork

US-285 between C-470 and I-25 in Denver runs pretty much east-west though its signed as north-south.



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