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Wisconsin notes

Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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triplemultiplex

The Lemonweir River has flooded out I-90/94 at Mauston.  The entire interstate is shut down between New Lisbon and Lyndon Station.
To make matters worse, the primary alternate route, US 12/WI 16 is also closed just outside Lyndon Station.  That whole area is going to be a giant CF all night, so give it a wide birth if you can!
"That's just like... your opinion, man."


MantyMadTown

Yeah Madison had some of that flooding too, but it didn't happen where I live (around the campus area). It was mostly in the isthmus but some other parts of the city as well as the rest of Dane County were also affected by the flooding. They had to close off some of the streets downtown in addition to the Costco in Middleton. I think things are finally getting back to normal here but we're supposed to get more rain today so we'll have to wait and see.
Forget the I-41 haters

triplemultiplex

Check that; it's only eastbound 90/94 that's closed.  But WB ain't moving that great and with more water on the way, I can't imagine it's much higher than it's EB partner.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

20160805

Quote from: mgk920 on August 28, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: invincor on August 28, 2018, 09:10:42 AM
There's been more awful flooding closing upwards of fifteen highways in the southeastern part of the state.  I heard the whole town of Coon Valley has been evacuated.

Last night there was a line of very heavy thunderstorms that went from just south of La Crosse eastward through the Dells area, Portage, Beaver Dam and Sheboygan - literally across the state - that moved laterally.  Coon Valley, WI is in that area.  We also got rained on here in Appleton from that line, but it was more of a normal seasonal storm for us.

Yes, it has been an unusually wet summer in Wisconsin.

Mike
At my location May and June were good months, both seeing rainfall in the 5" range.  July ran a bit below average, and August was poised to come out less than half of average until the rain events of the past three days; here have been my totals:

Sun: 1.87"
Mon: 1.66"
Tue: 2.79" and counting; still raining lightly as of this writing

And here are the monthly totals since May:
May: avg 3.3", TY 5.14"  :nod:
Jun: avg 4.0", TY 5.07" :nod:
Jul: avg 3.5", TY 2.91" :no:
Aug: avg 4.0", TY 7.66" :wow:

I honestly thought this month was going to be a complete failure with a total of less than two inches, but now we've had way too much rain for a while.  My front yard is a bloody lake.
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MantyMadTown

Quote from: 20160805 on August 28, 2018, 05:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 28, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: invincor on August 28, 2018, 09:10:42 AM
There's been more awful flooding closing upwards of fifteen highways in the southeastern part of the state.  I heard the whole town of Coon Valley has been evacuated.

Last night there was a line of very heavy thunderstorms that went from just south of La Crosse eastward through the Dells area, Portage, Beaver Dam and Sheboygan - literally across the state - that moved laterally.  Coon Valley, WI is in that area.  We also got rained on here in Appleton from that line, but it was more of a normal seasonal storm for us.

Yes, it has been an unusually wet summer in Wisconsin.

Mike
At my location May and June were good months, both seeing rainfall in the 5" range.  July ran a bit below average, and August was poised to come out less than half of average until the rain events of the past three days; here have been my totals:

Sun: 1.87"
Mon: 1.66"
Tue: 2.79" and counting; still raining lightly as of this writing

And here are the monthly totals since May:
May: avg 3.3", TY 5.14"  :nod:
Jun: avg 4.0", TY 5.07" :nod:
Jul: avg 3.5", TY 2.91" :no:
Aug: avg 4.0", TY 7.66" :wow:

I honestly thought this month was going to be a complete failure with a total of less than two inches, but now we've had way too much rain for a while.  My front yard is a bloody lake.

Yeah, it's been an unusually rainy summer.
Forget the I-41 haters

peterj920

Quote from: 20160805 on August 26, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 25, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
Just add 2 lanes in the median with a concrete barrier, expand the bridges north of Kaukauna and rebuild at the 4 locations between Wis 15 and County J.  The project can get done a lot faster and for a smaller price tag. 

However, I do think there should be a half interchange built at Wrightsrown Road.  Traffic heading to Appleton from Wrightstown doesn't want to drive up County U and backtrack.  All other local interchanges are fine.  Wouldn't mind seeing a rebuild of the Wis 441 interchange but it would be expensive and don't think it's that high of a priority compared to adding lanes.
There's also a very direct way from Wrightstown to Appleton and vice versa already: WI 96.  ;-)

Wis 96 is extremely slow and has a 25 mph speed limit between Little Chute and Kaukauna. Aside from the Lawe St duplex with Wis 55, it's only 1 lane in each direction east of Ballard Rd in Appleton.

During rush hours, watch the amount of people on Wis 96 turn on County JJ, then turn on the I-41 frontage road to County J, and get on I-41 from there. 

At JJ, there's a rail line, Wis 96, and the Frontage Rd within 200 feet along with being extremely close to the County J interchange so a half interchange wouldn't work there.  There's plenty of room and space at Wrightstown Rd for a half interchange.  That would cut down on the Frontage Rd traffic. 

mgk920

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 28, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
Check that; it's only eastbound 90/94 that's closed.  But WB ain't moving that great and with more water on the way, I can't imagine it's much higher than it's EB partner.

A major mainline railroad (BNSF's Aurora Sub - their mainline between Chicago, MStP and the Pacific northwest) was seriously washed out south of La Crosse.  Yesterday, Canadian Pacific started detouring trains via the CN west of Duplainville (west suburban Milwaukee), too.

Mike

paulthemapguy

Looks like a lot of I-90/94 is closed between Wis-80 and Wis-13.  Based on Google's traffic imagery, it looks like a lot of people are using Wis-21 as an alternate, because it is all jammed up near Necedah.  Lots of closures on Wis-35 along the Mississippi River as well, between Wis-82 and La Crosse.  Wis-80 closed from US14 north to Wis-82, too--wow. :crazy:
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froggie

^ I actually got stuck in it yesterday evening.  It's due to all the rain central Wisconsin has received the past few days.

I had taken back roads up to Wisconsin Dells (in part due to a stop at New Glarus for beer).  I didn't realize that the US 14 closure in Black Earth was related to the flooding...I thought it was road construction.  My first recognizable inclination of something wrong was a lack of traffic on 90/94 in Wisconsin Dells and the ramps to go WB being blocked.  I eventually stopped at a gas station and inquired, then checked the 511 website and traffic apps.

In short, State Police and WisDOT closed 90/94 between New Lisbon and Portage.  Eastbound traffic was officially directed up 80 to Necedah, then over on 21 to I-39.  Westbound traffic was directed to I-39 north to WI 21 to Tomah.  I also know from my efforts to get out of Wisconsin Dells that a lot of traffic was taking 13 north from there and turning left on 82....was stuck in a 3-mile backup getting to the 4-way stop at 13/82.

The backups you see on the traffic imagery are legit, and are largely due to the signal in Necedah or the all-way stop at 13/21.  When I finally rolled through westbound...and mind you this was well after 8pm, there was a 5-mile backup on EB 21 approaching 13, and a 3.5 backup approaching Necedah.  There was also a lengthy backup on NB 80 getting into Necedah.

Reports are that there's a bridge on WI 33 that was completely washed out.  That will be a multi-week (if not multi-month) closure.

froggie

As of their 10am update this morning, westbound 90/94 has been reopened.  Eastbound is still closed and being detoured from New Lisbon.  US 12 in the area also remains closed.

pianocello

Quote from: peterj920 on August 28, 2018, 09:05:33 PM
Quote from: 20160805 on August 26, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 25, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
Just add 2 lanes in the median with a concrete barrier, expand the bridges north of Kaukauna and rebuild at the 4 locations between Wis 15 and County J.  The project can get done a lot faster and for a smaller price tag. 

However, I do think there should be a half interchange built at Wrightsrown Road.  Traffic heading to Appleton from Wrightstown doesn't want to drive up County U and backtrack.  All other local interchanges are fine.  Wouldn't mind seeing a rebuild of the Wis 441 interchange but it would be expensive and don't think it's that high of a priority compared to adding lanes.
There's also a very direct way from Wrightstown to Appleton and vice versa already: WI 96.  ;-)

Wis 96 is extremely slow and has a 25 mph speed limit between Little Chute and Kaukauna. Aside from the Lawe St duplex with Wis 55, it's only 1 lane in each direction east of Ballard Rd in Appleton.

During rush hours, watch the amount of people on Wis 96 turn on County JJ, then turn on the I-41 frontage road to County J, and get on I-41 from there. 

At JJ, there's a rail line, Wis 96, and the Frontage Rd within 200 feet along with being extremely close to the County J interchange so a half interchange wouldn't work there.  There's plenty of room and space at Wrightstown Rd for a half interchange.  That would cut down on the Frontage Rd traffic. 

Eh, it'd be nice to see a half-interchange at Wrightstown Rd, but at the end of the day, you're saving ~2,000 people 2 minutes off their drive time.
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SSOWorld

80, 82 and surrounding county routes are not as capable as 13 and 21 at handling heavy traffic.  The view from the goog showed that 80 was slow or a parking lot between the freeway and 21.  21 handled it outside the towns until traffic built up and practically rendered every intersection inaccessible.
Scott O.

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Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

mgk920

While I was driving around a couple of days ago, I noticed that the WB US 10 through movement at the I-41/WI 441 Bridgeview/Ellis interchange between Appleton and Neenah, WI is now open.  I did not have a chance to drive it, but this is the final movement to be completed in that interchange rebuild.  There are still a few bandages here and there in it to remove, but it is essentially complete.

Also, I-41 in both directions is now fully open through it.

Mike

The Ghostbuster

Don't scrimp on Beltline interchange: https://madison.com/wsj/opinion/#tracking-source=main-nav

It had better be reconstructed and widened to six lanes. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. And get rid of all left-hand and cloverleaf ramps while you're at it!

TheHighwayMan3561

#2214
As long as the left exits/entrances are removed I think four lanes could suffice. There is a lot of traffic transitioning between both directions of 39/90 and 12/18 west of the interchange where thru traffic levels on 39/90 might drop low enough.
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MantyMadTown

By the looks of it, it looks like WISDOT is going to create a new alignment of mainline I-39/90 northbound to eliminate the left exit there. Now if they could remove the other left exit, that would be great.
Forget the I-41 haters

Roadguy

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 05, 2018, 04:55:31 PM
As long as the left exits/entrances are removed I think four lanes could suffice. There is a lot of traffic transitioning between both directions of 39/90 and 12/18 west of the interchange where thru traffic levels on 39/90 might drop low enough.

This issue isn't traffic capacity through the interchange, it's that everyone in the right lanes (exit only) will need to shift over multiple lanes to make it to the through lanes if there are only two through lanes through the core of the interchange.  A large percentage of drivers are not locals who drive it daily, many drivers don't seem to read big green signs over their heads, and the volumes are heavy so they should expect a lot of shifting traffic.  I would expect the number of crashes to remain higher due to all of this shifting traffic if they proceed with the two lane option.

TheHighwayMan3561

But a lot of that shifting is largely due to the left movements as well. Six lanes is ideal but probably not essential.
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tchafe1978

How much money would really be saved by building I-39/90 as only 2 lanes each way through the interchange? I can't believe it would be that much to make it cost effective vs. the extra safety and capacity that would come by building it 3 lanes each way. Some might be saved by not having to rebuild some bridges, but if the northbound lanes are going to be realigned anyway in order to eliminate left hand exits, there would really be maybe two bridges that wouldn't have to be rebuilt. Just go all the way from the start. Knock it off with the short-sightedness.

SEWIGuy

It's six lanes north of there, and will be six lanes south of there.  Building it for four lanes would be monumentally stupid and short-sighted. 

froggie

Depends on how much traffic from each direction enters and exits.  If there's a high enough percentage that enters or exits at the Beltline, then 4 lanes through the interchange should be adequate as others suggest.

Regarding tchafe1978's question...given scale, bridging, and traffic control, probably in the order of 8 digits.  Not a small figure.

JREwing78

Through Janesville, WisDOT is building out I-39/90 to 8 lanes (and 12 between the US-14 and Hwy 26 exits with the weave/merge lanes). It seems highly unlikely that they would cheap out at the Beltline and not have at least 6 through lanes.

If 4 through lanes was going to be adequate there, all they would have to do to "finish" the Beltline interchange is run the NBD I-39/90 left lane into the WBD Beltline exit, and have the EBD Beltline to SBD I-39/90 ramp turn into the right lane. No need to bother with new bridges.  Just a series of signs on NBD I-39/90 indicating the left lane is for the Beltline.

One of the major goals is for I-39/90 to not be a parking lot for weekend tourist traffic. You bet your ass the first 4-lane section of I-39/90 north of Rockford would be a crash hotspot every Friday, and the last thing any Wisconsinite would want is to have over $1 Billion dumped into I-39/90 south of the Beltline and end up with the same backup hell immediately afterwards.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2018, 12:52:08 AM
Through Janesville, WisDOT is building out I-39/90 to 8 lanes (and 12 between the US-14 and Hwy 26 exits with the weave/merge lanes). It seems highly unlikely that they would cheap out at the Beltline and not have at least 6 through lanes.

If 4 through lanes was going to be adequate there, all they would have to do to "finish" the Beltline interchange is run the NBD I-39/90 left lane into the WBD Beltline exit, and have the EBD Beltline to SBD I-39/90 ramp turn into the right lane. No need to bother with new bridges.  Just a series of signs on NBD I-39/90 indicating the left lane is for the Beltline.

One of the major goals is for I-39/90 to not be a parking lot for weekend tourist traffic. You bet your ass the first 4-lane section of I-39/90 north of Rockford would be a crash hotspot every Friday, and the last thing any Wisconsinite would want is to have over $1 Billion dumped into I-39/90 south of the Beltline and end up with the same backup hell immediately afterwards.

If it's only going to be 8 lanes until Janesville and 6 after that, Janesville is going to become the site of a daily traffic jam in the summer.  Why would they create a bottleneck like that...they'd probably be better off keeping it all 6 lanes.

So I agree with you--if there was a place to change the width from 8 lanes to 6, it would be the Beltline Interchange.  Enough traffic will divert to Madison that it wouldn't be as bad of a bottleneck as the one they're establishing in Janesville.
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SEWIGuy

Quote from: froggie on September 06, 2018, 06:44:20 PM
Depends on how much traffic from each direction enters and exits.  If there's a high enough percentage that enters or exits at the Beltline, then 4 lanes through the interchange should be adequate as others suggest.

Regarding tchafe1978's question...given scale, bridging, and traffic control, probably in the order of 8 digits.  Not a small figure.


If I am reading the traffic count maps correctly, 60,900 vehicles approach the interchange from the north.

Southbound, about 25,400 (more than 1/3) exits onto the Beltline WB, and 3,000 exit EB.  So could you use two through lanes and one "exit only," which is how it is set up now?  Maybe...as long as you get rid of the EB cloverleaf.

Now northbound relatively few exit the interchange.  A higher percentage of the traffic is "through traffic." 

JREwing78

Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 07, 2018, 10:52:57 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2018, 12:52:08 AM
Through Janesville, WisDOT is building out I-39/90 to 8 lanes (and 12 between the US-14 and Hwy 26 exits with the weave/merge lanes). It seems highly unlikely that they would cheap out at the Beltline and not have at least 6 through lanes.

If 4 through lanes was going to be adequate there, all they would have to do to "finish" the Beltline interchange is run the NBD I-39/90 left lane into the WBD Beltline exit, and have the EBD Beltline to SBD I-39/90 ramp turn into the right lane. No need to bother with new bridges.  Just a series of signs on NBD I-39/90 indicating the left lane is for the Beltline.

One of the major goals is for I-39/90 to not be a parking lot for weekend tourist traffic. You bet your ass the first 4-lane section of I-39/90 north of Rockford would be a crash hotspot every Friday, and the last thing any Wisconsinite would want is to have over $1 Billion dumped into I-39/90 south of the Beltline and end up with the same backup hell immediately afterwards.

If it's only going to be 8 lanes until Janesville and 6 after that, Janesville is going to become the site of a daily traffic jam in the summer.  Why would they create a bottleneck like that...they'd probably be better off keeping it all 6 lanes.

So I agree with you--if there was a place to change the width from 8 lanes to 6, it would be the Beltline Interchange.  Enough traffic will divert to Madison that it wouldn't be as bad of a bottleneck as the one they're establishing in Janesville.

Some clarification is in order. The I-39/90 widening is to provide AT LEAST 6 through lanes between the state line and the Beltline. Between Hwy 11/Avalon Rd and north of Hwy 26 in Janesville, it will have 8 through lanes. The justification was that 20-year traffic projections indicated traffic through Janesville will be heavy enough to justify the extra lane. On the section of I-39/90 south of the Illinois line, it's only 6 lanes now.

In reality, 8 lanes in Janesville will probably be overkill for a while - the AADT of the section through Janesville currently has 56,000 vpd between Hwy 11/Racine St and Hwy 14, dropping to 50,000 vpd between US-14 and Hwy 26 before rebounding to 55,000 north of Edgerton. That's comparable to traffic counts north of DeForest on the 6-lane section of I-39/90/94 - which is less than many 4-lane freeways move. Suffice it to say that the drop to 6 lanes north of Janesville shouldn't be a major issue for a while yet.

The only section of I-39/90/94 to have 8 through lanes is the stretch between US-151 and Hwy 30, where traffic counts climb north of 100,000 vpd. The Beltline is moving 140,000 vpd (with some issues) with only 6 through lanes.



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