Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[ahj2000]

IMO I think US 264 should be decommissioned being it's a one state route and it's going to be concurrent west of Greenville completely with it and I-87. It's just almost there but 65 miles shy, so just give the non freeway part a state number and be done.

Why not route it onto 264 Alt?
As a complete route, it deserves an interstate shield

Agree with this.

I think it should just be left as US 264. It is not an inter-state route. Hell its barely a full-state route. Its been 264 since 1932, why change it now? No actual benefit comes from adding an interstate number, other than the federal funding for NC DOT. The road doesn't need a new number, or new and incorrect cardinal directions. All these interstate "projects" here are just a waste of time, money, and effort.

It wasn't NCDOT's idea. US-264 became a future interstate because Greenville had been pushing like hell for it since late 2012. NCDOT usually gives in to the locals, especially where eastern NC is concerned. ENC usually carries a lot of weight in state politics.

That said, I don't have a problem with I-587 (other than NCDOT signing it N/S ). It's already a 70mph freeway and once the ongoing upgrade project between the Wilson/Greene county line and Greenville wraps up, all that will be left to upgrade is the stretch between Sims and Zebulon.

How about I-595?

Well since it starts at 87, I think 87 makes more sense as a spur of that route. However, that makes less sense when you look above and realize that you would go north on 587 and south on 87 to go from Greenville to Raleigh. That's such a weird routing. I'd prefer E-W signing, just because it seems opposite to use N-S like they do.

[sparker]

IMO I think US 264 should be decommissioned being it's a one state route and it's going to be concurrent west of Greenville completely with it and I-87. It's just almost there but 65 miles shy, so just give the non freeway part a state number and be done.

Why not route it onto 264 Alt?
As a complete route, it deserves an interstate shield

Agree with this.

I think it should just be left as US 264. It is not an inter-state route. Hell its barely a full-state route. Its been 264 since 1932, why change it now? No actual benefit comes from adding an interstate number, other than the federal funding for NC DOT. The road doesn't need a new number, or new and incorrect cardinal directions. All these interstate "projects" here are just a waste of time, money, and effort.

It wasn't NCDOT's idea. US-264 became a future interstate because Greenville had been pushing like hell for it since late 2012. NCDOT usually gives in to the locals, especially where eastern NC is concerned. ENC usually carries a lot of weight in state politics.

That said, I don't have a problem with I-587 (other than NCDOT signing it N/S ). It's already a 70mph freeway and once the ongoing upgrade project between the Wilson/Greene county line and Greenville wraps up, all that will be left to upgrade is the stretch between Sims and Zebulon.

How about I-595?

Well since it starts at 87, I think 87 makes more sense as a spur of that route. However, that makes less sense when you look above and realize that you would go north on 587 and south on 87 to go from Greenville to Raleigh. That's such a weird routing. I'd prefer E-W signing, just because it seems opposite to use N-S like they do.

Actually, at 60+ miles, it might even make more sense as an even 2di, such as the I-46 that I-87 should have been; but since it's only within NC, I-48 might even work.  At least (unlike I-42/NC 42) the like-signed state routes don't intersect this pending Interstate.  (I anticipate some flack for this notion!)

[amroad17]

Regarding I-587 being signed North-South (instead of West-East), tell NCDOT to check I-380 in both PA and IA, I-190 and I-390 in NY, I-270 in MD, and I-464 in VA to see that 3DI spurs of 2DIs do not need to have the same cardinal direction as their "parent".  As said by some of our posters, NCDOT needs to brush up on the "understood rules" regarding 2DIs and 3DIs.

NCDOT, just sign future I-587 West-East as that is the direction the soon to be overlapped US 264 is. 

Nothing like going from Greenville to Raleigh North at first, then South--all the while heading West.

[tolbs17]

IMO I think US 264 should be decommissioned being it's a one state route and it's going to be concurrent west of Greenville completely with it and I-87. It's just almost there but 65 miles shy, so just give the non freeway part a state number and be done.

Why not route it onto 264 Alt?
As a complete route, it deserves an interstate shield

Agree with this.

I think it should just be left as US 264. It is not an inter-state route. Hell its barely a full-state route. Its been 264 since 1932, why change it now? No actual benefit comes from adding an interstate number, other than the federal funding for NC DOT. The road doesn't need a new number, or new and incorrect cardinal directions. All these interstate "projects" here are just a waste of time, money, and effort.

It wasn't NCDOT's idea. US-264 became a future interstate because Greenville had been pushing like hell for it since late 2012. NCDOT usually gives in to the locals, especially where eastern NC is concerned. ENC usually carries a lot of weight in state politics.

That said, I don't have a problem with I-587 (other than NCDOT signing it N/S ). It's already a 70mph freeway and once the ongoing upgrade project between the Wilson/Greene county line and Greenville wraps up, all that will be left to upgrade is the stretch between Sims and Zebulon.

How about I-595?

Well since it starts at 87, I think 87 makes more sense as a spur of that route. However, that makes less sense when you look above and realize that you would go north on 587 and south on 87 to go from Greenville to Raleigh. That's such a weird routing. I'd prefer E-W signing, just because it seems opposite to use N-S like they do.

Actually, at 60+ miles, it might even make more sense as an even 2di, such as the I-46 that I-87 should have been; but since it's only within NC, I-48 might even work.  At least (unlike I-42/NC 42) the like-signed state routes don't intersect this pending Interstate.  (I anticipate some flack for this notion!)

It's definitely as long as I-12.

[tolbs17]

Regarding I-587 being signed North-South (instead of West-East), tell NCDOT to check I-380 in both PA and IA, I-190 and I-390 in NY, I-270 in MD, and I-464 in VA to see that 3DI spurs of 2DIs do not need to have the same cardinal direction as their "parent".  As said by some of our posters, NCDOT needs to brush up on the "understood rules" regarding 2DIs and 3DIs.

NCDOT, just sign future I-587 West-East as that is the direction the soon to be overlapped US 264 is. 

Nothing like going from Greenville to Raleigh North at first, then South--all the while heading West.

sprjus4, LM117, (and others) have definitely complained about that direction signage that looks bad. Including me.

[sparker]

IMO I think US 264 should be decommissioned being it's a one state route and it's going to be concurrent west of Greenville completely with it and I-87. It's just almost there but 65 miles shy, so just give the non freeway part a state number and be done.

Why not route it onto 264 Alt?
As a complete route, it deserves an interstate shield

Agree with this.

I think it should just be left as US 264. It is not an inter-state route. Hell its barely a full-state route. Its been 264 since 1932, why change it now? No actual benefit comes from adding an interstate number, other than the federal funding for NC DOT. The road doesn't need a new number, or new and incorrect cardinal directions. All these interstate "projects" here are just a waste of time, money, and effort.

It wasn't NCDOT's idea. US-264 became a future interstate because Greenville had been pushing like hell for it since late 2012. NCDOT usually gives in to the locals, especially where eastern NC is concerned. ENC usually carries a lot of weight in state politics.

That said, I don't have a problem with I-587 (other than NCDOT signing it N/S ). It's already a 70mph freeway and once the ongoing upgrade project between the Wilson/Greene county line and Greenville wraps up, all that will be left to upgrade is the stretch between Sims and Zebulon.

How about I-595?

Well since it starts at 87, I think 87 makes more sense as a spur of that route. However, that makes less sense when you look above and realize that you would go north on 587 and south on 87 to go from Greenville to Raleigh. That's such a weird routing. I'd prefer E-W signing, just because it seems opposite to use N-S like they do.

Actually, at 60+ miles, it might even make more sense as an even 2di, such as the I-46 that I-87 should have been; but since it's only within NC, I-48 might even work.  At least (unlike I-42/NC 42) the like-signed state routes don't intersect this pending Interstate.  (I anticipate some flack for this notion!)

It's definitely as long as I-12.

Actually, I-12 is about 85 miles long; US 264(I-587) between US 64 (I-87) and Greenville is approximately the same length as I-19 in AZ. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Of course, Interstate 587 can't exist until Interstate 87 reaches present-day Exit 436, at the very least (not to mention both routes being upgraded to Interstate Standards). I also agree that Interstates 87 and 587 should be signed as East-West (87 at least to Williamston, 587 its entire route).

[tolbs17]

Why can't we use I-595 as an interstate once I-87 gets fully built to interstate stardards?

[kevinb1994]

Why can't we use I-595 as an interstate once I-87 gets fully built to interstate stardards?

Which I-595? There's one here in Florida, and the secret one in Delmarva. There was also a proposed upgrade for US 1 in Arlington VA, that was never built.

[sprjus4]

Why can't we use I-595 as an interstate once I-87 gets fully built to interstate stardards?

Which I-595? There's one here in Florida, and the secret one in Delmarva. There was also a proposed upgrade for US 1 in Arlington VA, that was never built.

He's referring to re-naming the Future I-87 corridor between Raleigh and Norfolk to I-595.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

I drove the segment of US 17 from Williamston to Elizabeth City for the first time yesterday. There is no way this highway will be an interstate in less than 25 years, if ever. As the recent STIP's project prioritization and selection highlighted, the costs far exceed the benefits.

• Upgrade 64 to interstate standards from Knightdale to I-95 and Rocky Mount and sign it a 3di
• Select interchanges/grade separations between Williamston and Elizabeth City where warranted and feasible
• Superstreet everything else, slap some 60 mph signs up and call it a day
• Use the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to complete this project and use them on improvements that are actually needed elsewhere across the state

[sprjus4]

At minimum, I could definitely see construction of an interstate-grade upgrade between Elizabeth City and I-64 in the next two decades as growth continues between the two areas... at least on NCDOT's part.

The benefits to be realized for the corridor aren't going to be there until the entire highway is completed between the two metropolitan areas. Currently, the Hampton Roads metro of over 2 million does not have an interstate connection to I-95 South. It's definitely more of a long term goal than short term, it's certainly not a high priority need today. Unless US-58 is upgraded in Virginia to interstate standards... currently estimated at nearly $3 billion, it's going to get constructed at some point in the future.

As for the short term, the speed limit needs to be increased to at least 60 mph on the non-limited-access portions of the route. At least they have increased all of the limited access portions to 70 mph, but it's a crawl at 55 mph... 60 mph is not much better, but I'd rather be driving 70 mph in a 60 mph than 70 mph in a 55 mph.

[vdeane]

If even NCDOT recognizes it's not a high priority today, then why request and sign a 2di number that won't be complete for any significant length for decades?  It would have been better to stick with I-495 until there was significant progress on the rest of the corridor.

[sparker]

If even NCDOT recognizes it's not a high priority today, then why request and sign a 2di number that won't be complete for any significant length for decades?  It would have been better to stick with I-495 until there was significant progress on the rest of the corridor.

Once the I-495 designation was delisted after I-87 was adopted, it was very unlikely that any I-495 signage would be retained, since it too, like its successor route, abruptly ended (at least regarding I-signage) a few miles east of I-440 and never was posted east to I-95, the original plan for that route.  IMO, it should have remained a "hidden" interstate until meeting interstate standards east at least as far as I-95; it does nothing for navigational purposes.

[vdeane]

If even NCDOT recognizes it's not a high priority today, then why request and sign a 2di number that won't be complete for any significant length for decades?  It would have been better to stick with I-495 until there was significant progress on the rest of the corridor.

Once the I-495 designation was delisted after I-87 was adopted, it was very unlikely that any I-495 signage would be retained, since it too, like its successor route, abruptly ended (at least regarding I-signage) a few miles east of I-440 and never was posted east to I-95, the original plan for that route.  IMO, it should have remained a "hidden" interstate until meeting interstate standards east at least as far as I-95; it does nothing for navigational purposes.

Which gets to my question of why even request it in the first place.  NC really needs to stop biting off more than they can chew.  I'm also not a fan of short segments of interstates that serve no navigational purpose being signed.  It just confuses people and clutters up the system.

[Avalanchez71]

At minimum, I could definitely see construction of an interstate-grade upgrade between Elizabeth City and I-64 in the next two decades as growth continues between the two areas... at least on NCDOT's part.

The benefits to be realized for the corridor aren't going to be there until the entire highway is completed between the two metropolitan areas. Currently, the Hampton Roads metro of over 2 million does not have an interstate connection to I-95 South. It's definitely more of a long term goal than short term, it's certainly not a high priority need today. Unless US-58 is upgraded in Virginia to interstate standards... currently estimated at nearly $3 billion, it's going to get constructed at some point in the future.

As for the short term, the speed limit needs to be increased to at least 60 mph on the non-limited-access portions of the route. At least they have increased all of the limited access portions to 70 mph, but it's a crawl at 55 mph... 60 mph is not much better, but I'd rather be driving 70 mph in a 60 mph than 70 mph in a 55 mph.

Wow that is over build.  What is wrong with US 17 and US 17 By-pass?  US 17 By-Pass is almost interstate like anyway.

[tolbs17]

I drove the segment of US 17 from Williamston to Elizabeth City for the first time yesterday. There is no way this highway will be an interstate in less than 25 years, if ever. As the recent STIP's project prioritization and selection highlighted, the costs far exceed the benefits.

• Upgrade 64 to interstate standards from Knightdale to I-95 and Rocky Mount and sign it a 3di
• Select interchanges/grade separations between Williamston and Elizabeth City where warranted and feasible
• Superstreet everything else, slap some 60 mph signs up and call it a day
• Use the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to complete this project and use them on improvements that are actually needed elsewhere across the state

I'm sure that would just be an extended I-87.

[sparker]

I drove the segment of US 17 from Williamston to Elizabeth City for the first time yesterday. There is no way this highway will be an interstate in less than 25 years, if ever. As the recent STIP's project prioritization and selection highlighted, the costs far exceed the benefits.

• Upgrade 64 to interstate standards from Knightdale to I-95 and Rocky Mount and sign it a 3di
• Select interchanges/grade separations between Williamston and Elizabeth City where warranted and feasible
• Superstreet everything else, slap some 60 mph signs up and call it a day
• Use the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to complete this project and use them on improvements that are actually needed elsewhere across the state

I'm sure that would just be an extended I-87.

Too many NC folks (including the DOT itself) with a vested interest in the development of this corridor; while only portions of US 64 (the section east of I-440 currently signed as I-87) and from Tarboro out to US 17 are presently at Interstate status, the south/west 95 miles are functioning as a freeway, as is the Elizabeth City bypass.  At this point, despite NC's unforeseen fiscal woes, the project remains on the books, but, like with other in-state Interstate projects, with an extended time frame for completion.  It's already been 5 years since I-87 was designated, but it's more than likely that the US 17 portion of the corridor will take 20-25+ more years to reach the VA state line as a full-status Interstate, but if NCDOT's activities regarding I-73 & 74 are any indication, they'll just absorb the delays and plow through whenever it fits into the budget. 

BTW, "boulevardization" wouldn't be an improvement over much of what constitutes present US 17 along the corridor's path; it's either 4-lane with/without a median barrier, or the rural doppelganger of the urban "boulevard", the "5-lane" format with a center turn lane.  If & when the Interstate corridor sees actual construction, some of it will be overlaid and some bypassed, depending upon the facility layout and what is situated alongside it.  It'll be interesting to see how NCDOT intends to provide free-flow lanes and provisions for local egress in some of US 17's closer quarters. 

[LM117]

If even NCDOT recognizes it's not a high priority today, then why request and sign a 2di number that won't be complete for any significant length for decades?  It would have been better to stick with I-495 until there was significant progress on the rest of the corridor.

Once the I-495 designation was delisted after I-87 was adopted, it was very unlikely that any I-495 signage would be retained, since it too, like its successor route, abruptly ended (at least regarding I-signage) a few miles east of I-440 and never was posted east to I-95, the original plan for that route.  IMO, it should have remained a "hidden" interstate until meeting interstate standards east at least as far as I-95; it does nothing for navigational purposes.

Which gets to my question of why even request it in the first place.

The Regional Transportation Alliance in Raleigh had been pushing hard for an interstate connection to Hampton Roads for years and once the political muscle of eastern NC finally joined in, that was all she wrote. I grew up in ENC and that region more often than not carries a lot of political weight (regardless of party).

I-495 was Plan B after FHWA had given NCDOT's I-44 request in 2012 the cold shoulder, likely because FHWA knew there was virtually zero chance the entire corridor would be upgraded within the 25-year period, which is why the RTA & ENC decided to get Congress involved. Nobody really expected Congress to move as quick as it did in designating US-64/US-17 a future interstate and High Priority Corridor, otherwise NCDOT wouldn't have wasted time & money getting I-495 shields only to be replaced by I-87 within such a short time.

[tolbs17]

And that being said, US-64 should go back on it's old alignment and have I-87 run by itself on the freeway (maybe not here since this was a 2-lane freeway).

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8332237,-77.3740461,3a,15y,48h,89.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGa9PbxJW0Sj1xNLNQH1W1A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8314332,-77.3740325,3a,31.1y,24.69h,92.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_k_lTRqHSPnM4wCW8scvOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'm sure these signs will have I-87 signs takeover.

Map of US 64 back on it's old alignment

For US-17, i'm sure I-87 will have a long concurrency with that one.

[froggie]

And that being said, US-64 should go back on it's old alignment

This would go against a number of AASHTO policies (AASHTO being the arbiter when it comes to US highway routings).  The two most likely prospects are that either NCDOT retains 64 on the freeway, or they truncate 64 to somewhere in RDU.  Given that I-87 would turn north at Williamston, my money's on the former...leaving 64 on the freeway.

[tolbs17]

And that being said, US-64 should go back on it's old alignment

This would go against a number of AASHTO policies (AASHTO being the arbiter when it comes to US highway routings).  The two most likely prospects are that either NCDOT retains 64 on the freeway, or they truncate 64 to somewhere in RDU.  Given that I-87 would turn north at Williamston, my money's on the former...leaving 64 on the freeway.

Same with I-587 and US-264?

[The Ghostbuster]

I could see the US 264 designation being dropped west of Greenville once the Interstate 587 designation comes into fruition. I doubt we'll see US 64 being retracted within the state, although existing US 64 east of Williamston could theoretically be downgraded to NC 64, since that designation has not been used since 1925 (probably due to the designation of US 64 through the state).

[architect77]

I think that US64 should be highlighted through signage statewide as it's the longest highway in the state at ~640 miles from mountains to sea.

That's almost 2/3 the way across Texas, I think one interstate clocks in at over 1,000 miles across the Lone Star state which I've driven on and gotten 3 speeding tickets in West Texas.

[hotdogPi]

That's almost 2/3 the way across Texas, I think one interstate clocks in at over 1,000 miles across the Lone Star state which I've driven on and gotten 3 speeding tickets in West Texas.

The exit numbers would be 4 digits if that was the case. The highest exit number is in the 800s.