ACCESS Oklahoma

[Plutonic Panda]

Awesome!! 

[Plutonic Panda]

Spoke a little too soon. It looks like the major ruling on whether this program actually proceeds or not hasn't happened yet: https://www.news9.com/story/646ce1a31a04dd072c7722cb/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-against-group-opposing-ota-plan

[Plutonic Panda]

Another victory for the OTA!

https://kfor.com/news/local/ok-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-ota-in-open-meetings-act-challenge/

[Bobby5280]

How many more legal challenges are standing in the way of the OTA getting ACCESS Oklahoma projects back on track? Will the OTA have the green light to start issuing bonds for these projects (particularly the East-West Connector going between Norman and Moore)?

[rte66man]

How many more legal challenges are standing in the way of the OTA getting ACCESS Oklahoma projects back on track? Will the OTA have the green light to start issuing bonds for these projects (particularly the East-West Connector going between Norman and Moore)?

The only one that matters now is the ruling on the bonds themselves. Given the OTA victory with the other suits, it looks promising for the turnpikes to resume.

[splashflash]

Article about need for new roads:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/opinion/2023/06/14/guest-turnpikes-are-a-nuisance-but-oklahoma-needs-new-roads/70308380007/

[Plutonic Panda]

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority told the Oklahoma Supreme Court on Thursday that engineers believe they can agree on a new toll road route through Bureau of Land Reclamation easement around Lake Thunderbird after the agency rejected original plans for a Kickapoo south extension turnpike.

The authority also told the court in a new filing they don't believe they need renewed authorization from the state's Council of Bond Oversight before getting justices' validation to sell bonds for the $5 billion ACCESS Oklahoma expansion.

Both answers were required by the Oklahoma Supreme Court when it reversed a district court ruling that the turnpike authority willfully violated the Open Meetings Act when it unveiled plans for ACCESS Oklahoma on Feb. 22, 2022, without providing details of the expansion in advance.

The court asked the authority to explain by Thursday why they didn't request an extension from the Council on Bond Oversight for conditional approval to issue $500 million in revenue bonds for ACCESS Oklahoma. That approval expired in February.

The court also asked the turnpike authority to explain the Bureau of Reclamation's January denial of easements around Lake Thunderbird for construction of a new toll road and whether realignment of that route should be addressed before the validation proceeding is completed.

Joe Echelle, deputy director of the turnpike authority, said talks with the Bureau of Reclamation to agree on a new easement will begin after the bond sales are validated by the court. He said the authority also believes it can wait until after validation of bonds from the court before seeking new permission from the Council on Bond Oversight.

"We greatly appreciate the opportunity from the Court to provide additional information as part of this important proceeding,"  Echelle said. "While work on the comprehensive ACCESS Oklahoma long-range plan remains paused until the court issues its decision, the authority remains committed to improving the state's transportation system by addressing congestion issues through new reliever routes and updating turnpike infrastructure for the state's long-term needs."  

Norman residents worry about future status of their homes

Hundreds of Norman-area residents are concerned they will lose their homes and businesses to make way for new toll roads they say aren't needed. Attorney Richard Labarthe, who is representing residents trying to stop construction of the new toll roads, said the turnpike authority is falsely downplaying the importance of getting bond approval from the Council of Bond Oversight. 

"Essentially they're saying "˜Aw shucks, we didn't even need to go to COBO (Council of Bond Oversight) so don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain.' But they did, and they conditioned their approval, and now they're pretending that didn't happen."  

Labarthe said residents no longer accept anything said by turnpike officials as being 100% accurate. He also questioned whether the turnpike authority can negotiate a new route with the Bureau of Reclamation.

"The notion that they can make a hard right maneuver for many miles to get around the Bureau of Reclamation also seems incredibly speculative,"  Labarthe said. "They didn't do their homework up front, and now they're tap dancing to put a good face on it."  

- https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/06/15/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-access-new-route-bond-approval/70327819007/

[Bobby5280]

Where are the anti-turnpike people in Norman coming up with this "hundreds of homes will be removed" shit? The East-West Connector Turnpike is proposed to run along Indian Hills Road. There isn't much built next to that road, based on 5/4/2023 imagery in Google Earth. There wouldn't be "hundreds" of structures removed. At most, it looks like a few dozen. And more of those existing structures are commercial properties rather than homes. There is a collection of ugly metal buildings a new interchange at I-44 would remove. Hammer Construction is the only other property between I-44 and I-35 and that's not exactly postcard material. East of I-35 there are some homes that would have to be bought and cleared. But it's not "hundreds" of homes. The anti-turnpike crowd is literally using misinformation when presenting their arguments. They would have people imagine a turnpike bulldozing through a more developed Norman corridor like Robinson or Main. Indian Hills Road is not that. 

[Scott5114]

And when they were building the Creek Turnpike one of the protestors said that people in New York would use it to ship AIDS-contaminated materials through town. This bunch has never been much in the business of presenting intelligent, factual arguments.

[Plutonic Panda]

From Journal Record:

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority intends to adjust its route for a toll road located west of Lake Thunderbird if the state Supreme Court allows it to sell bonds for the project.

As prompted by the court, the authority last week filed a response to the pending bond validation proceeding for its $5 billion Access Oklahoma plan. The court asked the agency to explain why it allowed the approval of $500 million in bonds for the plan to expire and whether realignment of a southern extension toll road should be addressed before the validation proceeding completes.

If the state Supreme Court decides to validate the bonds, the OTA will resubmit an application to the Council of Bond Oversight and work with the Bureau of Reclamation to change the alignment of the planned south extension, which runs north and south just west of Lake Thunderbird, according to an OTA release.

Opponents of the OTA's extension proposal raised various concerns.

Michael Nash, who will take over as the councilor for Ward 5 in east Norman next month, said a south extension toll road in the Lake Thunderbird watershed is not legislatively authorized, referencing a law implemented in 1987 that allowed for certain turnpike expansion routes.

"The OTA believes the Supreme Court should approve whatever they put forward,"  Nash said. "It's the most brazen act of disregard for the public and for any process that we've established in our state government. It's just outright disrespectful to the people that live here."

State Rep. Danny Sterling, R-Tecumseh, said he's unsure how the OTA can adjust the route for the southern extension toll road.

There's just not that much room to go further west,"  Sterling said. "You're getting into the heart of east Norman residential areas."

Sterling said he believes a need for additional infrastructure exists in east Norman, but residents in the area of the new route deserve more transparency in the process than what was given to those in the path of the originally proposed plan.

State Sen. Mary Boren, D-Norman, said following the February 2022 rollout of the OTA's plan, Norman residents knew they were going to have to take care of their legal rights.

"They knew they weren't going to be able to trust the OTA to respect and honor their property rights,"  Boren said.

The court required the OTA's response following its ruling that reversed a district court decision that the authority violated the Open Meetings Act when it unveiled turnpike expansion plans at the tail-end of a February 2022 board meeting without sufficiently disclosing its details in a meeting agenda.

The Bureau of Reclamation in January denied the OTA's initial request for usage of federal land and easements across east Norman title land to connect its proposed south extension to an east-west connector road.

Following the denial, the OTA believes a route is possible in another area across its easements.

Reclamation told the OTA in January that it doesn't object to the authority routing the turnpike across Norman Project Pipeline and flowage easements if the crossings are designed in a way that doesn't interfere with "Reclamation's easement interests or impact operation, maintenance and replacement"  of Norman pipeline infrastructure.

Current plan to be slightly adjusted:

- https://journalrecord.com/2023/06/21/oklahoma-turnpike-authority-adjusting-route-of-controversial-extension/?utm_term=OTA%20adjusting%20route%20of%20controversial%20extension&utm_campaign=Holt%3A%20New%20OKC%20arena%20plan%20coming%20this%20summer&utm_content=Editorial&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_medium=OKC&email=plutonicpanda@gmail.com

[The Ghostbuster]

Will the two future toll roads have state highway designations? I imagine the OK 335 and OK 340 designations would be used if they become part of the state highway system. Whatever is decided, I think the existing Kickapoo Turnpike's exit numbers should be changed to correspond to the Turnpike's southern extension to Interstate 35. That is, unless the existing Kickapoo Turnpike becomes part of the proposed monstrous Interstate 240 beltway around the Oklahoma City area, in which the exit numbers would be changed from 130-149 to 21-40.

[Scott5114]

Probably. Of note is that the existing turnpike numbers mostly don't use the number of an Interstate they connect to, but rather a US or state highway they intersect or run sort of parallel to. If the numbering pattern used for the other routes holds, the east-west turnpike would be 337. The north-south one (including the Kickapoo) might be 362, 309, or 302.

[Bobby5280]

It is unlikely OTA would use Interstate designations on these new turnpikes. However I think it would make more sense and probably boost the number of vehicles using those turnpikes if they did carry Interstate designations.

I don't mind I-240 being routed over the Kilpatrick Turnpike and its curvy extension to Airport Road. But I think it's a goofy idea to extend it East over to the Kickapoo Turnpike. I think the Kickapoo Turnpike and the East-West Connector should be labeled with an I-x44 route number. It would signal traffic taking I-44 thru OKC that the two turnpikes would be a worthy higher speed bypass. I'm not sure what to do with the Kickapoo Turnpike's Southern extension down to I-35. It could be given a I-x35 number.

[Scott5114]

I don't support using x44 numbers in Oklahoma City since they are the only numbers Lawton and Tulsa would be able to use (although Tulsa will soon have the option of x42s or x50s or whatever number US-412 gets).

[The Ghostbuster]

The only x44 numbers available are 644 and 844, since 244 and 444 are in use (I don't think an odd first digit Interstate designation would be practical in this situation). Since many of the state's toll roads have adopted 3xx state highway designations, I would expect the Kickapoo Turnpike extension and the new east-west toll road to do the same.

[rte66man]

I don't support using x44 numbers in Oklahoma City since they are the only numbers Lawton and Tulsa would be able to use (although Tulsa will soon have the option of x42s or x50s or whatever number US-412 gets).

Lawton?????

Do you really think Rogers Lane would be upgraded to the point it could become an Interstate highway?

[Bobby5280]

Rogers Lane should be upgraded to Interstate standards. The current road is sub-standard, even as a US Highway (no shoulders, other safety issues). But Lawton gets the shit end of the stick in terms of highway funding and attention from law-makers. So, such an upgrade is not likely to ever happen, unless Lawton miraculously goes through a big surge of population growth. It will probably take a multi-fatality head-on collision to wake up the old farts in OKC about Rogers Lane. And even then they'll likely do nothing about it.

If funding and politics weren't an issue Lawton would probably have two freeway spurs off I-44 by now. Rogers Lane is one do-able upgrade. The other would be a spur starting from South of the Lawton Regional Airport and running roughly diagonal up to the Western outskirts where the enormous Goodyear tire factory and several other industrial sites are located. Goodyear has been complaining loudly about the condition of 82nd Street going South of Lee Blvd. Lots of trucks take that route South down to OK-36 and over to I-44 to avoid Lawton traffic. But 82nd Street is just beat to shit. Supposedly studies are on-going for a new truck route to the South of Lawton over to I-44. Such a thing could be built as a Super 2 with at-grade intersections, then grade separated exits and then 4-lane divided -kind of like what has been happening with the Duncan Bypass.

There are also plans to extend Goodyear Blvd farther North past Old Cache Road and up to a proposed freeway exit on US-62. I think funding for that project is approved and should be built within the next couple or so years. That would give trucks from the industrial park somewhat faster access to I-44 via Rogers Lane. There's fewer stop lights along the way. But Rogers Lane in its current state is not equipped to take on an additional big surge of heavy truck traffic. The signaled intersections at 67th Street and 38th Street have sight line issues. I can easily imagine semi trucks t-boning vehicles entering Rogers Lane at 67th Street or semis rear ending groups of cars as they come over the hills toward the 38th Street intersection blindly down in a valley.

[Scott5114]

I don't support using x44 numbers in Oklahoma City since they are the only numbers Lawton and Tulsa would be able to use (although Tulsa will soon have the option of x42s or x50s or whatever number US-412 gets).

Lawton?????

Do you really think Rogers Lane would be upgraded to the point it could become an Interstate highway?

Maybe. Who the hell knows what's going to happen in the next 100 years. Nevada doesn't even appear in the Yellow Book at all and now it has three 3dis.

[BigOkie]

I don't support using x44 numbers in Oklahoma City since they are the only numbers Lawton and Tulsa would be able to use (although Tulsa will soon have the option of x42s or x50s or whatever number US-412 gets).

Doubt 50 gets used if it is upgraded; they save the numbers divisible by 10 for what are considered major cross country interstates.  I don't see it becoming 50 unless there's a master plan to run this completely coast to coast.

Also, I-42 is planned for use in NC I believe, so I-46 it might have to be.

[Scott5114]

Yes, but there's the issue of "where else would you put 50 that is both a plausible place to put an Interstate and also won't conflict with US-50". About the only place that satisfies that is...Tulsa.

Also, I can't remember who it was, but I read someone say they talked to an official at one of the public meetings and they said 42 was the number they were considering asking for. Who knows if that person knew what they were talking about, though.

[bugo]

Isn't there a driveway in North Carolina called I-42? This highway needs a unique number. I'm still rooting for I-50.

[BigOkie]

Isn't there a driveway in North Carolina called I-42? This highway needs a unique number. I'm still rooting for I-50.

It's proposed, but not an interstate yet.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/2022-03-16-i-42-coming-us-70-corridor.aspx

[sprjus4]

Isn't there a driveway in North Carolina called I-42? This highway needs a unique number. I'm still rooting for I-50.

It's proposed, but not an interstate yet.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/2022-03-16-i-42-coming-us-70-corridor.aspx

It was approved by the AASHTO and FHWA seven years ago, two segments have been fully authorized to be sign-posted (Clayton and Goldsboro), and the highway serves a major traffic corridor, certainly one that carries double the traffic that US-412 does... not a "driveway" . Several segments are already built to interstate standards, with additional ones currently under construction.

[sprjus4]

Also, I can't remember who it was, but I read someone say they talked to an official at one of the public meetings and they said 42 was the number they were considering asking for. Who knows if that person knew what they were talking about, though.

As North Carolina has shown as, what they ask for vs. what they are given may be two separate things.

[mvak36]

Seems like they should just go get approval for whatever number they want from FHWA first and then apply to AASHTO lol.