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Largest Cities Not Connected by Freeway

Started by webny99, January 14, 2019, 10:17:27 AM

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sprjus4

Quote from: Beltway on January 14, 2019, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 14, 2019, 07:04:07 PM
Norfolk - Raleigh.

I-64, I-95, I-495.
Fair point, you could traverse it all by freeway. Though U.S. 64 and I-87, not I-495. I-495 got decommissioned last year.


Kulerage

Memphis, Tennessee and Springfield, MO

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kphoger

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 14, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM
I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis–Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.
Wouldn't Fort Wayne and Toledo be the next cities in line to each one though?

I suppose you're right.  I misunderstood that point in the OP.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 14, 2019, 09:29:23 PM
Tokyo to Beijing

/thread

Why Beijing?  Shanghai metro area is about 40% larger.

:ded:  /thread   :ded:
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 09:44:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 14, 2019, 09:29:23 PM
Tokyo to Beijing

/thread

Why Beijing?  Shanghai metro area is about 40% larger.

:ded:  /thread   :ded:
That too, as well as New York to Tokyo.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

webny99

#31
Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM
I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis—Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.

US 24 looks to be at least four lanes from Fort Wayne to Toledo, but it accounts for more than 20% of the total route mileage, so I think it counts.
It should also be noted that there are two all-freeway routes, both of which add about 15-20 minutes to the travel time: I-69 to I-94, and I-70 to I-75.

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 14, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Wouldn't Fort Wayne and Toledo be the next cities in line to each one though?
I suppose you're right.  I misunderstood that point in the OP.

Fort Wayne and Toledo are both, in terms of size, in what I would consider to be kind of a gray area.
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be connected to each other by freeway, but they both have a freeway connection to the larger metro, Indy and Detroit respectively.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on January 15, 2019, 10:15:10 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM
I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis—Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.

US 24 looks to be at least four lanes from Fort Wayne to Toledo, but it accounts for more than 20% of the total route mileage, so I think it counts.

The wrinkle is that US-24 is partially a freeway and partially not.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Hurricane Rex

Bend to... Oh wait, there is no four lane connection to any interstate despite it being the fastest growing city in Oregon and one of the fastest in the country. Hitting 100k soon.

LG-TP260

ODOT, raise the speed limit and fix our traffic problems.

Road and weather geek for life.

Running till I die.

frankenroad

Quote from: ilpt4u on January 14, 2019, 03:22:35 PM
Cincy or Dayton or Columbus, OH and Charleston, WV...basically "missing"  I-74

By the same token, Columbus and Toledo ("missing" I-73).  Much of it is freeway, but there is a painful gap through Delaware County.
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

adventurernumber1

Quote from: Beltway on January 14, 2019, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 14, 2019, 07:04:07 PM
Norfolk - Raleigh.

I-64, I-95, I-495.

While true, taking Interstate 64 from the Norfolk Metro Area all the way up to Richmond, then taking I-95 South down to North Carolina (then I-495 to Raleigh) is extremely out of the way, and it is a major backtrack. It would probably be enough out of the way where it could not work by the guidelines for this thread. But the Norfolk-to-Raleigh situation may not forever be a contender for this thread, if/when the new I-87 is fully completed in North Carolina and Virginia. But for it being completed in its entirety, there may be no telling how long that might be from now.
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

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adventurernumber1

Another contender might be:

DFW ---> Denver

This one is a tad tricky. You can take I-35 to I-135 to I-70 there, but it is about an hour longer than what Google Maps says is the quickest route. Along the quickest route there, some parts of US 287 are limited-access, and the route includes much of I-25 in Colorado. However, it is still far from being an entirely freeway route from Dallas/Fort Worth to Denver. This could be fixed if US 287 from DFW to Amarillo is upgraded to an interstate corridor (such as I-32), and if I-27 is extended north from Amarillo, TX, possibly to Limon, CO, where it would then terminate at Interstate 70, and you would get to Denver then via I-70 West after that.
Now alternating between different highway shields for my avatar - my previous highway shield avatar for the last few years was US 76.

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127322363@N08/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vJ3qa8R-cc44Cv6ohio1g

sparker

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 14, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
Phoenix to Albuquerque and Phoenix to Salt Lake City also work. Wow, I just realized who underserved Phoenix is by the interstate system.

Also: Albuquerque to SLC metro.  To paraphrase Maxwell Smart, the kid "missed it by that much!"
               (Shit, that dates me!)
        Boise & Los Angeles
        Denver & Minneapolis/St. Paul
        Phoenix & Denver
        DFW & Denver
        Memphis & KC

One needs to remember that when the Interstate network was being laid out from 1944-58, Phoenix wasn't even close to 100K population -- hardly the regional hub it is today.

Beltway

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on January 16, 2019, 01:33:10 AM
Quote from: Beltway on January 14, 2019, 08:40:21 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 14, 2019, 07:04:07 PM
Norfolk - Raleigh.
I-64, I-95, I-495.
While true, taking Interstate 64 from the Norfolk Metro Area all the way up to Richmond, then taking I-95 South down to North Carolina (then I-495 to Raleigh) is extremely out of the way, and it is a major backtrack. It would probably be enough out of the way where it could not work by the guidelines for this thread. But the Norfolk-to-Raleigh situation may not forever be a contender for this thread, if/when the new I-87 is fully completed in North Carolina and Virginia. But for it being completed in its entirety, there may be no telling how long that might be from now.

I was being sarcastic, as Sprjus4 is an "I-87" booster.  While the routing I posted is well out of the way, the cities are connected by freeway and have been for about 15 years.  His route is also well out of the way in distance and time, about 25 miles further that the current connection via US-58.
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webny99

Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMBoise & Los Angeles
That is one heck of a corridor, but I think it qualifies. Lancaster-Palmdale, CA and Winnemucca, NV are the only places that even come close to being considered a "city" on the entire 840 mile route.

Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMDenver & Minneapolis/St. Paul
Google Maps currently routes along I-76, I-80, and I-35. Hardly "direct", but no question that said all-freeway route is the best option.

Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMMemphis & KC
Another good candidate, one reflective of the lack of north-south corridors in Missouri in general.
The below are all north-south non-freeway connections made through or within Missouri, and just scratching the surface here:

Little Rock > St Louis
Des Moines > St Louis
Little Rock > Columbia
Des Moines > Columbia
Little Rock > Springfield
Columbia > Springfield
Memphis > Kansas City
Memphis > Des Moines
Twin Cities > St Louis

ilpt4u

How about a REAL CKC Expressway/Freeway that does not include the jogs thru Des Moines or STL

sparker

Quote from: webny99 on January 16, 2019, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMBoise & Los Angeles
That is one heck of a corridor, but I think it qualifies. Lancaster-Palmdale, CA and Winnemucca, NV are the only places that even come close to being considered a "city" on the entire 840 mile route.

Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMDenver & Minneapolis/St. Paul
Google Maps currently routes along I-76, I-80, and I-35. Hardly "direct", but no question that said all-freeway route is the best option.

Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:30:30 AMMemphis & KC
Another good candidate, one reflective of the lack of north-south corridors in Missouri in general.
The below are all north-south non-freeway connections made through or within Missouri, and just scratching the surface here:

Little Rock > St Louis
Des Moines > St Louis
Little Rock > Columbia
Des Moines > Columbia
Little Rock > Springfield
Columbia > Springfield
Memphis > Kansas City
Memphis > Des Moines
Twin Cities > St Louis

L.A. to Boise:  Essentially up CA 14/US 395 -- but either (a) staying on 395 (I-580) up to Reno and "piggybacking" on I-80 to Winnemucca, then up US 95/ID 55, hitting I-84 near Caldwell; (b) would cut some mileage out of the entire process, cutting over on CA 167/NV 359 and duplicating the most likely I-11 corridor as far north as Fallon before striking off north on US 95 to I-80, then proceeding as with option (a). 

Denver-M/St.P:  Always envisioned something up the HPC #23 2005-added alternative, crossing I-80 at US 81 (York, NE) and proceeding N and NE via Norfolk and IA 35 to Sioux City, then NE on MSR 60 and US 169 for the remainder of the route. 

Memphis-KC:  Pretty straightforward: I-555/US 63, US 60, MO 13 and MO 7, with I-49 completing the corridor.

Flint1979

Quote from: webny99 on January 15, 2019, 10:15:10 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM
I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis—Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.

US 24 looks to be at least four lanes from Fort Wayne to Toledo, but it accounts for more than 20% of the total route mileage, so I think it counts.
It should also be noted that there are two all-freeway routes, both of which add about 15-20 minutes to the travel time: I-69 to I-94, and I-70 to I-75.

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 14, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Wouldn't Fort Wayne and Toledo be the next cities in line to each one though?
I suppose you're right.  I misunderstood that point in the OP.

Fort Wayne and Toledo are both, in terms of size, in what I would consider to be kind of a gray area.
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be connected to each other by freeway, but they both have a freeway connection to the larger metro, Indy and Detroit respectively.
I have driven on US-24 between Toledo and Fort Wayne and vice versa before. For Ohio starting at the Indiana state line and going to Defiance it's an expressway that mostly has interchanges but has intersections with some county roads. The Indiana portion is a rural four lane freeway.

Here's one of the intersections:  https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1665493,-84.7663753,170m/data=!3m1!1e3

Mark68

Albuquerque > Phoenix
Albuquerque > Las Vegas (NV)
Albuquerque > Salt Lake City
ABQ > DFW
ABQ > Austin
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

kphoger

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 16, 2019, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 15, 2019, 10:15:10 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM

I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis—Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.

US 24 looks to be at least four lanes from Fort Wayne to Toledo, but it accounts for more than 20% of the total route mileage, so I think it counts.
It should also be noted that there are two all-freeway routes, both of which add about 15-20 minutes to the travel time: I-69 to I-94, and I-70 to I-75.

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 09:41:09 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 14, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Wouldn't Fort Wayne and Toledo be the next cities in line to each one though?

I suppose you're right.  I misunderstood that point in the OP.

Fort Wayne and Toledo are both, in terms of size, in what I would consider to be kind of a gray area.
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be connected to each other by freeway, but they both have a freeway connection to the larger metro, Indy and Detroit respectively.

I have driven on US-24 between Toledo and Fort Wayne and vice versa before. For Ohio starting at the Indiana state line and going to Defiance it's an expressway that mostly has interchanges but has intersections with some county roads. The Indiana portion is a rural four lane freeway.

Here's one of the intersections:  https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1665493,-84.7663753,170m/data=!3m1!1e3

OK, I un-lazy-ed myself and measured the non-freeway portion, and it comes out to 41 miles.

That works out to 86% of the Indianapolis—Detroit corridor being freeway and therefore disqualified from the running.

It works out to only 60% of the Fort Wayne—Toledo corridor being freeway.  However, the combined population of those two MSAs barely tops 1 million.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: kphoger on January 16, 2019, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 16, 2019, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 15, 2019, 10:15:10 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 06:46:39 PM

I'm not totally sure this meets the 80% criterion, but...

The Indianapolis—Detroit corridor uses US-24, which is not completely freeway-grade.  Combined MSA = 6.3 million.  I'm too lazy right now to measure how much of the route is not a freeway.

US 24 looks to be at least four lanes from Fort Wayne to Toledo, but it accounts for more than 20% of the total route mileage, so I think it counts.
It should also be noted that there are two all-freeway routes, both of which add about 15-20 minutes to the travel time: I-69 to I-94, and I-70 to I-75.

Quote from: kphoger on January 14, 2019, 09:41:09 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 14, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Wouldn't Fort Wayne and Toledo be the next cities in line to each one though?

I suppose you're right.  I misunderstood that point in the OP.

Fort Wayne and Toledo are both, in terms of size, in what I would consider to be kind of a gray area.
I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be connected to each other by freeway, but they both have a freeway connection to the larger metro, Indy and Detroit respectively.

I have driven on US-24 between Toledo and Fort Wayne and vice versa before. For Ohio starting at the Indiana state line and going to Defiance it's an expressway that mostly has interchanges but has intersections with some county roads. The Indiana portion is a rural four lane freeway.

Here's one of the intersections:  https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1665493,-84.7663753,170m/data=!3m1!1e3

OK, I un-lazy-ed myself and measured the non-freeway portion, and it comes out to 41 miles.

That works out to 86% of the Indianapolis—Detroit corridor being freeway and therefore disqualified from the running.

It works out to only 60% of the Fort Wayne—Toledo corridor being freeway.  However, the combined population of those two MSAs barely tops 1 million.
I thought that Indy-Detroit used I-69 to I-94.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kphoger

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 16, 2019, 01:54:51 PM
I thought that Indy-Detroit used I-69 to I-94.

You could.  But that's not what Google recommends whenever I've looked in the past.  And it's not the way people I personally know drive between the two.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Ben114


sparker


kphoger

Quote from: Ben114 on January 16, 2019, 02:46:48 PM
Juneau ... Alaska.

FTFY.
The population of the Juneau statistical area is less than 40,000.
The population of the largest MSA in Alaska is less than 400,000.
So I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be a winner on this thread, no matter what.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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