Tennessee Choice Lanes

[Daniel Fiddler]

I'm not sure if a topic has been posted about this or not.

Apparently toll express lanes (which Tennessee is calling "Choice lanes") similar to those in California, Florida, Georgia, and other states (not sure where all) are coming to the Nashville metropolitan area along I-24.

I support this.  Hopefully this will be used to fund six-laning I-24 between Murfreesboro and Chattanooga, which should have been done in the 1980's or 1990's.  This route gets heavily congested due to Nashville's rapid population growth (it has roughly quadrupled during my lifetime, from approximately 500,000 in the early 1980's to a little over 2.2 million now) which has been most explosive in Rutherford county and traffic between Florida and Atlanta in the south and Chicago in the north.

[hotdogPi]

I have some choice words to say about the term "choice lanes".

[Henry]

Just Googled "Tennessee choice lanes", and found this article:

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/12/18/where-are-choice-lanes-proposed-tennessee/

TDOT is also planning choice lanes for I-65 from Nashville to Spring Hill, I-24 in Chattanooga and I-40/I-75 in Knoxville. None are planned for Memphis at this point.

[Rothman]

Ugh.  "Choice lanes" is so Orwellian.

[freebrickproductions]

TDOT is also planning choice lanes for I-65 from Nashville to Spring Hill

I'm guessing that would involve widening it between I-840 and TN 396.

[Chris]

More info here: https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2023/12/18/tennessee-unveils-state-s-first-ever-10-year-fiscally-constrained-transportation-project-plan.html

TDOT will be recommending to the General Assembly and the Transportation Modernization Board that the first Choice Lanes project in Tennessee be on I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro. Other potential future locations include I-65 between Nashville and Spring Hill, Moccasin Bend in Chattanooga, and I-40 from the I-40/I-75 junction to State Route 158 west of downtown Knoxville.

Moccasin Bend is I-24 along the Tennessee River?

[MikeTheActuary]

Moccasin Bend is I-24 along the Tennessee River?

Moccasin Bend is where the Tennessee River makes a U-turn west of downtown Chattanooga.

C.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moccasin_Bend_Mental_Health_Institute

[codyg1985]

I could see the I-24 corridor between Murfreesboro and Nashville as a prime candidate for this. I am a bit disappointed that the I-24 corridor in Chattanooga west of US 27 is being considered for this instead of traditional widening.

[Rothman]

Their claim that toll lanes will reduce congestion in general purpose lanes is one of the most disingenuous policy statements I've ever seen.

Also, why 10 years?  State and federal funding sources are not predictable that far out and they'll just be updating it again as MPOs go through their TIP update processes anyway.  In NY, that occurs every three years, but even at four or five, you're looking at updating more than half of your program that frequently if you stick to a 10-year program ("fiscally-constrained" does not necessarily mean by year, so later years can be loaded up with projects that will get smoothed out later as inflation and other overruns set in).

Well, at least they got a good press release out of it.

[ElishaGOtis]

More info here: https://www.tn.gov/tdot/news/2023/12/18/tennessee-unveils-state-s-first-ever-10-year-fiscally-constrained-transportation-project-plan.html

TDOT will be recommending to the General Assembly and the Transportation Modernization Board that the first Choice Lanes project in Tennessee be on I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro. Other potential future locations include I-65 between Nashville and Spring Hill, Moccasin Bend in Chattanooga, and I-40 from the I-40/I-75 junction to State Route 158 west of downtown Knoxville.

Moccasin Bend is I-24 along the Tennessee River?

In my opinion, I-24 in SE Nashville is the perfect place for initiating the program, especially with the new SMART corridor that went online (if it decides to work properly). The biggest concern I have is how they plan on addressing the bottlenecks and merge points at I-40/440.

Their claim that toll lanes will reduce congestion in general purpose lanes is one of the most disingenuous policy statements I've ever seen.

Also, why 10 years?  State and federal funding sources are not predictable that far out and they'll just be updating it again as MPOs go through their TIP update processes anyway.  In NY, that occurs every three years, but even at four or five, you're looking at updating more than half of your program that frequently if you stick to a 10-year program ("fiscally-constrained" does not necessarily mean by year, so later years can be loaded up with projects that will get smoothed out later as inflation and other overruns set in).

Well, at least they got a good press release out of it.

If done correctly, they seem to actually provide a benefit. Unfortunately, to your point, 99% of the time they're NOT done correctly, with too many entrance/exit points, minimal separation, unreasonably low speed limits (causing illegal right-side passing or long lines behind a single car), dynamic pricing done wrong, lanes ending pre-maturely causing a bottleneck at the merge point, etc.... IMO, many of these issues seem to be caused by "long-term plans" that are a bit too ambitious, running into the cost barriers, especially as local goals by MPOs & funding sources change over time. I'm just going to hope TN doesn't make these same mistakes seen elsewhere...

[codyg1985]

I hope TDOT will make their choice lanes at least two lanes in each direction instead of just slapping tolls on existing HOV lanes.

[sprjus4]

I hope TDOT will make their choice lanes at least two lanes in each direction instead of just slapping tolls on existing HOV lanes.

This is another issue with HO/T or express lanes too... the single lane methodology. I imagine, just like other DOTs have, Tennessee will simply convert the existing lane without physical expansion.

VDOT is doing a similar thing in the Hampton Roads region, in fact also building new HO/T lane projects with only one lane in each direction. The speed limit will be 65 mph, but traffic will want to move 70-75 mph, and someone going either right at 65 mph or even under will cause tailgating and braking... as the general purpose lanes posted at only 60 mph fly by at 70+ mph.

[Tomahawkin]

I hate it when DOT's use existing HOV lanes and convert them to toll lanes! GDOT did that on IH 85 in Atlanta where the rates exceed 20+ dollars during peak hours instead of building 2 lane/elevated sections like what has been done in Florida/California and Texas. They do it the right way, IMO instead of just doing temporary BS fixes which are like a band aid on a Bullet wound

[ElishaGOtis]

I hope TDOT will make their choice lanes at least two lanes in each direction instead of just slapping tolls on existing HOV lanes.

This is another issue with HO/T or express lanes too... the single lane methodology. I imagine, just like other DOTs have, Tennessee will simply convert the existing lane without physical expansion.

VDOT is doing a similar thing in the Hampton Roads region, in fact also building new HO/T lane projects with only one lane in each direction. The speed limit will be 65 mph, but traffic will want to move 70-75 mph, and someone going either right at 65 mph or even under will cause tailgating and braking... as the general purpose lanes posted at only 60 mph fly by at 70+ mph.

Meanwhile in Florida:
Puts single-lane ETLs at 55 MPH because reasons

Drivers aren't having any of it, even caught on GSV https://www.google.com/maps/@25.97472,-80.1660217,3a,17.7y,177.56h,87.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srKmiF6Dzxu4mrZy-0w_2Ig!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Then there's the Atlanta Toller-coaster with 65 in GP and 55 in Express At least it has two lanes instead of just one...

Maybe the limit was set based on peak-hour speeds? If so, one could argue this makes the case for variable and/or lane-specific speed limits, something I-24 actually has (when it works...)

I hate it when DOT's use existing HOV lanes and convert them to toll lanes! GDOT did that on IH 85 in Atlanta where the rates exceed 20+ dollars during peak hours instead of building 2 lane/elevated sections like what has been done in Florida/California and Texas. They do it the right way, IMO instead of just doing temporary BS fixes which are like a band aid on a Bullet wound

Temporary fixes can be useful, especially if something larger is on the books. However, as is mentioned in its name, they MUST be temporary. Simple conversions from HOV to HOT/ETL probably work best to give the DOT experience operating lanes on one or two corridors when they're first constructed, like I-85 (GA's first HOT/ETL system). However, once that time has passed, they must be improved. IMHO I-85's lanes should have been converted to at least 2-2 elevated / barrier separated instead of having the corridor extended... this likely would have been a lot more efficient on a traffic standpoint.

Also, to your point, maybe the high tolls now fund future projects that could result in lower tolls? Still, it looks like the time has passed for their effectiveness as a simple conversion on I-85. 

[zachary_amaryllis]

Their claim that toll lanes will reduce congestion in general purpose lanes is one of the most disingenuous policy statements I've ever seen.

Also, why 10 years?  State and federal funding sources are not predictable that far out and they'll just be updating it again as MPOs go through their TIP update processes anyway.  In NY, that occurs every three years, but even at four or five, you're looking at updating more than half of your program that frequently if you stick to a 10-year program ("fiscally-constrained" does not necessarily mean by year, so later years can be loaded up with projects that will get smoothed out later as inflation and other overruns set in).

Well, at least they got a good press release out of it.

I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped in traffic on I-70 in the mountains.. Stopped, or putting at 10 mph, while the wide-open "Express Lane" collects dust.

Here, they try to sucker you into the lanes. They'll happily gate you in, and charge a toll, when the lane ends a mile down the road.

Now, my company pays my tolls, so I use them when I need/want to. But no way I'm paying. that.

[SP Cook]

As with all road signage, a common term is necessary for motorist safety and information.  If it is a HOT lane or simply a toll express lane, label it as such.  No ordinary person can remember that a "Tennessee Choice Lane" is the same as an "Alabama Happiness Lane" as a "Wisconsin Freedom Lane" as a "Colorado Truth Justice and the American Way Lane", etc.

[ilpt4u]

As with all road signage, a common term is necessary for motorist safety and information.  If it is a HOT lane or simply a toll express lane, label it as such.  No ordinary person can remember that a "Tennessee Choice Lane" is the same as an "Alabama Happiness Lane" as a "Wisconsin Freedom Lane" as a "Colorado Truth Justice and the American Way Lane", etc.

Counterpoint: All the various names EZ-Pass/I-Pass/RiverLink/etc have, as well as other interoperable tolling systems like TxTag/K-Tag/PikePass and the various Florida SunPass variants. Same/similar technologies, even in the interoperable territories, but individual branding, either by state or even various toll agencies within a state

For the record, I agree that uniformity in traffic control and devices is useful and should be required

[triplemultiplex]

It's like how in Michigan, bridge tolls are called "fares". :pan

I guess I'm down with HOT lanes for Nashville if it means there will actually be enforcement of the "high occupancy" part of that acronym.  Seen lots of non-compliance in Nashville area HOV lanes during my time there over the years.

[SP Cook]

As with all road signage, a common term is necessary for motorist safety and information.  If it is a HOT lane or simply a toll express lane, label it as such.  No ordinary person can remember that a "Tennessee Choice Lane" is the same as an "Alabama Happiness Lane" as a "Wisconsin Freedom Lane" as a "Colorado Truth Justice and the American Way Lane", etc.

Counterpoint: All the various names EZ-Pass/I-Pass/RiverLink/etc have, as well as other interoperable tolling systems like TxTag/K-Tag/PikePass and the various Florida SunPass variants. Same/similar technologies, even in the interoperable territories, but individual branding, either by state or even various toll agencies within a state

For the record, I agree that uniformity in traffic control and devices is useful and should be required

Well, two things.

IMHO, we missed the boat on transponder tolls.  They should have easily established a single international (include Canada, Mexico would be more difficult) transponder system, given it one name and one symbol, and the trucking industry would have covered the administration costs.

Having a toll transponder is somewhat more than a standard motorist.  You made an effort to get one.  It is easy to look up if a River Pass is accepted at EZ Pass in North Carolina. 

But, there should be one toll transponder system, and one symbol.

[Road Hog]

My choice is made. Same as my choice in North Texas.

[civilengineeringnerd]

i just wished they use the choice lanes along I-40 from exit 20 to exit 201. that would free up a lot in the rural counties for other funding. yea it'll be more expensive, and more difficult to get the capital raised, but the amount of truck traffic on that road would at least give motorists a area where they can feel safe. just complete dogcrap that they are starting with the middle Tennessee corridors first, while i can understand, i don't like it one bit. at the very least if they are gonna do ANY section of I-40, it should be the portion in tennessee between memphis and nashville, not all the way out into knoxville on the other side of the state. 

[sprjus4]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

[ran4sh]

As with all road signage, a common term is necessary for motorist safety and information.  If it is a HOT lane or simply a toll express lane, label it as such.  No ordinary person can remember that a "Tennessee Choice Lane" is the same as an "Alabama Happiness Lane" as a "Wisconsin Freedom Lane" as a "Colorado Truth Justice and the American Way Lane", etc.

There's an MUTCD standard for the signage, which is "express lane(s)". All the newly built HOT lanes I've seen comply with the usage of "express lane(s)" on signage even if they are marketed/publicized under a different name.

[civilengineeringnerd]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

[sprjus4]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

They haven't... the urban toll lanes will only be single lane and make use of the existing HOV, I believe.