Erroneous road signs

[yakra]

If I mash the Page Up and Page Down keys I can make it dance!

[Federal Route Sixty-Nine]

http://goo.gl/maps/FSlbU - Terrible sign. Implies the second lane from the right can exit at the Sam Houston Tollway, which is wrong. Also the black on white part is in Clearview which is a violation of the MUTCD.

Then, about a mile later, here's the former second lane from the right, which is clearly for IH-10 only.

http://goo.gl/maps/7cenF

Unacceptable, especially since it's a fairly new configuration.

Images courtesy of a person in a Google Street View Car.

[J N Winkler]

Mixed message (courtesy WSDOT SRView):

[national highway 1]

Mixed message (courtesy WSDOT SRView):

What's erroneous about this one? Is it the left-aligned tab or the non-vertically centred arrow?

[Kacie Jane]

Mixed message (courtesy WSDOT SRView):

What's erroneous about this one? Is it the left-aligned tab or the non-vertically centred arrow?

Left-aligned tab for a right-side exit is the only error, although the arrow isn't very pretty either.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Washington does not do exit tabs.

[Alps]

If I mash the Page Up and Page Down keys I can make it dance!

Seriously. Win.

[J N Winkler]

Left-aligned tab for a right-side exit is the only error, although the arrow isn't very pretty either.

The arrow is the de facto WSDOT standard for freeway guide signs.  It is used as a directional arrow on both ground-mounted and overhead exit direction signs, and also as a lane assignment arrow on overhead-mounted exit direction signs.  (I say de facto because I have not checked WSDOT's Sign Fabrication Manual to verify that it is the actual standard for these applications.)  I would personally prefer to see WSDOT use the Caltrans standard one-line and two-line arrows, but they didn't ask for my opinion . . .

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Washington does not do exit tabs.

I think this actually varies somewhat by WSDOT region.  I struggle to think of any examples of part-width exit tabs in WSDOT's Northwest Region, for example.  However, the photo I posted comes from photologging for I-5 in the Southwest Region, where part-width exit tabs abound.  Exits 9 through 14 inclusive have part-width tabs on both advance guide and exit direction signs, while at least one of the advance guide or exit direction signs for Exits 1A, 1B, 21, and 27 has a part-width tab.  And this is just what I managed to find in a quick surf of the photologging for I-5 between the Columbia River and MP 30 (I-5 is in the Southwest Region for about 85 miles).

I checked Interstate and selected state-route freeway photologging for the other WSDOT regions (North Central, Eastern, South Central, and Olympic) and could not find any examples of part-width exit tabs.

[Kacie Jane]

The arrow is the de facto WSDOT standard for freeway guide signs.  It is used as a directional arrow on both ground-mounted and overhead exit direction signs, and also as a lane assignment arrow on overhead-mounted exit direction signs.  (I say de facto because I have not checked WSDOT's Sign Fabrication Manual to verify that it is the actual standard for these applications.)  I would personally prefer to see WSDOT use the Caltrans standard one-line and two-line arrows, but they didn't ask for my opinion . . .

Are you sure about this?  I'm looked at GSV for Bellingham, and it matches what I recalled from memory -- most of them use the longer-stemmed arrow.  There are a couple of BGSs with the stubby arrow, but always on the bottom of the sign as a lane assignment.

I think this actually varies somewhat by WSDOT region.  I struggle to think of any examples of part-width exit tabs in WSDOT's Northwest Region, for example.  However, the photo I posted comes from photologging for I-5 in the Southwest Region, where part-width exit tabs abound.  Exits 9 through 14 inclusive have part-width tabs on both advance guide and exit direction signs, while at least one of the advance guide or exit direction signs for Exits 1A, 1B, 21, and 27 has a part-width tab.  And this is just what I managed to find in a quick surf of the photologging for I-5 between the Columbia River and MP 30 (I-5 is in the Southwest Region for about 85 miles).

I checked Interstate and selected state-route freeway photologging for the other WSDOT regions (North Central, Eastern, South Central, and Olympic) and could not find any examples of part-width exit tabs.

Everything you say here is true... thus making your first sentence untrue, IMHO.  I wouldn't say it varies by region, as every region except Southwest uses full-width tabs, and there are still plenty of full-width tabs to be found in the Southwest as well.

Only the Southwest region uses traditional tabs, with varying degrees of success.

[J N Winkler]

Are you sure about this?  I'm looked at GSV for Bellingham, and it matches what I recalled from memory -- most of them use the longer-stemmed arrow.  There are a couple of BGSs with the stubby arrow, but always on the bottom of the sign as a lane assignment.

Quite sure.  There are examples of the standard long-shaft arrow (not just in Bellingham) but they seem to be less common than the stubby arrow, with Bellingham representing a cluster of long-shaft arrows on I-5.

Bellingham overlaps I-5 between Exit 246 and Exit 260.  Between those two exits (inclusive), there are instances of the stubby arrow being used on ground-mounted signs and on overhead signs otherwise than for lane assignment.  Here is how arrow usage breaks down (increasing-milepost direction only, 2011 imagery):

*  Exits 246--Ground-mounted exit direction sign with standard long-shaft arrow (does not assign lanes)

*  Exits 250, 252, 253, 254, 257--Overhead-mounted exit direction sign with standard long-shaft arrow (does not assign lanes)

*  Exit 255--Overhead-mounted exit direction sign with stubby arrow (does not assign lanes)

*  Exits 256A-B--Overhead-mounted exit direction sign with stubby arrow (assigns lanes)

*  Exits 258, 260--Ground-mounted exit direction sign with stubby arrow (does not assign lanes)

In addition to the Bellingham length of I-5, I "drove" (flipped through downloaded SRView imagery at very high speed using an image browser) a length of I-5 northbound from MP 153 to MP 171 (approximately).  This portion of I-5 approaches downtown Seattle, is subject to variable speed limits, and has exit direction signs which are almost invariably overhead-mounted.  Here the stubby arrows have a definite numerical advantage over the long-shaft arrows.  The Caltrans single-line "spade" arrow is also used, but less often than either of the other two.  (For that matter it is also used just north of Bellingham, at Exit 263.)

I think this actually varies somewhat by WSDOT region.  I struggle to think of any examples of part-width exit tabs in WSDOT's Northwest Region, for example.  However, the photo I posted comes from photologging for I-5 in the Southwest Region, where part-width exit tabs abound.  Exits 9 through 14 inclusive have part-width tabs on both advance guide and exit direction signs, while at least one of the advance guide or exit direction signs for Exits 1A, 1B, 21, and 27 has a part-width tab.  And this is just what I managed to find in a quick surf of the photologging for I-5 between the Columbia River and MP 30 (I-5 is in the Southwest Region for about 85 miles).

I checked Interstate and selected state-route freeway photologging for the other WSDOT regions (North Central, Eastern, South Central, and Olympic) and could not find any examples of part-width exit tabs.

Everything you say here is true... thus making your first sentence untrue, IMHO.  I wouldn't say it varies by region, as every region except Southwest uses full-width tabs, and there are still plenty of full-width tabs to be found in the Southwest as well.

Only the Southwest region uses traditional tabs, with varying degrees of success.

I had to hedge.  I have reviewed end-to-end photologging imagery for I-90 (decreasing-milepost direction only), I-82 (increasing-milepost direction only), and I-5 (increasing-milepost direction only).  I have not attempted both-directions coverage of any primary Interstates in Washington, or any of the loop or spur Interstates like I-182, I-705, or I-405.  I also haven't systematically investigated exit tab treatment on state-route freeways (some have them, while some don't).  This introduces the possibility of sample bias.  Counterexamples (which in this case would be part-width tabs in a WSDOT region other than Southwest) might exist in the field but not be included in any of the sample lengths I have so far chosen for downloading and virtual driving.

[Kacie Jane]

Fair enough re: arrows.  I still find the specific use/placement on the Exit 46 sign particularly ugly though.

Unfortunately, my last road trip covered I-82 and I-90 in those same directions, but I can say with confidence that they are entirely full-width in both directions, as is I-405.  It's been some time since I've been on either I-182 or I-205, so I won't speak to them -- and I-205 is in the Southwest region besides.  I-705 has no exit numbers.

Regarding state route freeways, IIRC the only ones with exit numbers are 14, 16, and 3 -- the latter two haphazardly at best.  I've never been on 14.  I'm too lazy to street view again at the moment, but I think 16 & 3 may have some traditional tabs.  However, I think it's likely that those are due to retrofitting old signs rather than a conscious effort to use a different style.

[kphoger]

But I still wouldn't call the Exit 46 example "erroneous", just bad design.  All the information contained in the sign is correct, isn't it?

[J N Winkler]

Regarding state route freeways, IIRC the only ones with exit numbers are 14, 16, and 3 -- the latter two haphazardly at best.  I've never been on 14.  I'm too lazy to street view again at the moment, but I think 16 & 3 may have some traditional tabs.  However, I think it's likely that those are due to retrofitting old signs rather than a conscious effort to use a different style.

I cruised SR 16 (increasing-milepost direction only, 2012 imagery) and it was all full-width tabs.  I didn't see any unnumbered exits, and most of the signing looked fresh.  I haven't been through my collection of WSDOT construction plans, but I vaguely remember some of the cross streets from the "short titles" of past WSDOT jobs, so I think it has recently undergone work of some kind.

I haven't gotten to SR 3 or SR 14 yet.

[PurdueBill]

But I still wouldn't call the Exit 46 example "erroneous", just bad design.  All the information contained in the sign is correct, isn't it?

Left tab is still wrong.  At least center it if not push it all the way right.

[texaskdog]

Nitpicking.  There are far more egregiuos errors out there to catch.

[kj3400]

Nitpicking.  There are far more egregious errors out there to catch.

Like that.

[Takumi]

I'm pretty sure that was intentional.

[kj3400]

Ah. This was a minor waste of my google searching time then (to find the correct spelling)

[Kacie Jane]

I cruised SR 16 (increasing-milepost direction only, 2012 imagery) and it was all full-width tabs.  I didn't see any unnumbered exits, and most of the signing looked fresh.  I haven't been through my collection of WSDOT construction plans, but I vaguely remember some of the cross streets from the "short titles" of past WSDOT jobs, so I think it has recently undergone work of some kind.

Makes sense; it's been a year or two since I've been out there.  I took a peek at the decreasing direction of 16 (only within Tacoma) and did spot a few retrofits (mostly Exit 1B) but with full-width tabs.

But I still wouldn't call the Exit 46 example "erroneous", just bad design.  All the information contained in the sign is correct, isn't it?

While it may appear like it's merely bad design at first, a left side exit tab means the exit is on the left.  Since the exit is on the right, the information given by the tab is erroneous.

[kphoger]

While it may appear like it's merely bad design at first, a left side exit tab means the exit is on the left.  Since the exit is on the right, the information given by the tab is erroneous.

I don't think of a left side exit tab as meaning that an exit is on the left.  I think of it as merely a signing convention.  I highly doubt there's ever been a single driver who was confused as to whether his exit was on the right or the left because of that exit tab.

[PurdueBill]

While it may appear like it's merely bad design at first, a left side exit tab means the exit is on the left.  Since the exit is on the right, the information given by the tab is erroneous.

I don't think of a left side exit tab as meaning that an exit is on the left.  I think of it as merely a signing convention.  I highly doubt there's ever been a single driver who was confused as to whether his exit was on the right or the left because of that exit tab.

Hasn't the MUTCD called for alignment of exit tabs to the side of the exit for some time now?  Maybe not as a "shall" but at least as a "should"? A left tab for a right exit would seem to be an outright error, while a centered tab is an old style, not indicating either way.

[Scott5114]

At first, I thought the mixed message was that anything with a Headquarters could not be Pleasant.

[Central Avenue]

At first, I thought the mixed message was that anything with a Headquarters could not be Pleasant.

Heh, I had the same thought, but I figured I'd sound silly if I said that.

[1995hoo]

While it may appear like it's merely bad design at first, a left side exit tab means the exit is on the left.  Since the exit is on the right, the information given by the tab is erroneous.

I don't think of a left side exit tab as meaning that an exit is on the left.  I think of it as merely a signing convention.  I highly doubt there's ever been a single driver who was confused as to whether his exit was on the right or the left because of that exit tab.

I'd wager that the majority of the non-roadgeek driving public are unaware of the correlation between exit tab side and ramp location.

[PurdueBill]

While it may appear like it's merely bad design at first, a left side exit tab means the exit is on the left.  Since the exit is on the right, the information given by the tab is erroneous.

I don't think of a left side exit tab as meaning that an exit is on the left.  I think of it as merely a signing convention.  I highly doubt there's ever been a single driver who was confused as to whether his exit was on the right or the left because of that exit tab.

I'd wager that the majority of the non-roadgeek driving public are unaware of the correlation between exit tab side and ramp location.

Maybe not the majority, but people do notice, as noted in this recent thread. 

[deathtopumpkins]

The fact that hardly any of the general public notices that the side the tab's on is the side the exit's on makes me wonder why states still do it, and why we make a big deal out of it when a tab's on the wrong side. Especially now that "LEFT EXIT" tabs are mandated for left exits.