A Unique "Divided" Highway

[ghYHZ]

And what makes it unique?  I'm driving along "0" Ave in Aldergrove, BC (south of Vancouver) and on the left; East Boundary Rd. in Whatcom County, Washington State. The US/Canada border runs down the centre of the ditch.

[hbelkins]

Looks like someone with a four-wheel drive vehicle could very easily cross the border and get into the other country, unless there are customs stations at all points where a side road diverts from either route.

[corco]

Looks like someone with a four-wheel drive vehicle could very easily cross the border and get into the other country, unless there are customs stations at all points where a side road diverts from either route.

Here's a shot from the western terminus of Boundary Rd.
(full size)
I've driven Boundary road but not 0 Ave. It might be a tough drive across unless you have pretty big tires (the ditch is deceptively steep- if you open the full size photo you can kind of see), but you could definitely walk/running start jump across without too much issue.

You can't see them in either of our photos, but there are a couple watch towers along the route

A trip to clinch the Boundary Rd segments was actually the very first trip I ever took just for the sake of roadgeekery, back in September 06

[ghYHZ]

Now head east to the Maine - New Brunswick border and the AVCC Aroostook Valley Country Club Golf Course that straddles the border: Until recently you could enter from either country, play your round of golf and go home. Now golfer from Canada have to enter at a major US border crossing and the Golf Club is providing maps/directions on their web page (along with a Tom Brokaw piece on the border)

http://www.avcc.ca/notice.htm

http://www.avcc.ca/history.htm

Also a link about the difficulties a resident in New Brunswick faces because driveway is onto a road on the US side:

http://www.avcc.ca/tomerott.PDF  

[6a]

And what makes it unique?  I'm driving along "0" Ave in Aldergrove, BC (south of Vancouver) and on the left; East Boundary Rd. in Whatcom County, Washington State. The US/Canada border runs down the centre of the ditch.

Having lived near or on the VA/NC border as well as the NC/SC border in the past has given me plenty of time to ponder how a line on the ground marks so many differences.  In this case, it can be as simple as center vs. centre.

Now head east to the Maine - New Brunswick border and the AVCC Aroostook Valley Country Club Golf Course that straddles the border: Until recently you could enter from either country, play your round of golf and go home. Now golfer from Canada have to enter at a major US border crossing and the Golf Club is providing maps/directions on their web page (along with a Tom Brokaw piece on the border)

http://www.avcc.ca/notice.htm

http://www.avcc.ca/history.htm

Also a link about the difficulties a resident in New Brunswick faces because driveway is onto a road on the US side:

http://www.avcc.ca/tomerott.PDF 

One of those towns up there has the library in both countries.  As far as I know one can freely browse, but they take special care to make sure everyone leaves from the correct door.

[xonhulu]

And what makes it unique?  I'm driving along "0" Ave in Aldergrove, BC (south of Vancouver) and on the left; East Boundary Rd. in Whatcom County, Washington State. The

As far as "divided highways" go, it's also pretty unique because each carriageway is itself a two-way road.  Imagine the chaos if interstate highways were made this way.

[Michael in Philly]

To "6a":  You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.
When this came up on Skyscraper City, I did some digging, and it's apparently not as open as I thought it was.

Edit:
Links in this post:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=83041774&postcount=5014

[national highway 1]

Here's a shot from the western terminus of Boundary Rd.

I like how the Canadian side has '50km/h', while the American side has '35mph'

[agentsteel53]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

[Brandon]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

[mgk920]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

I agree, and I can foresee some really interesting things going on once the checkpoints can be eliminated, beyond just turning those two boundary roads into a true divided boulevard street/highway.

Mike

[Kacie Jane]

I agree, and I can foresee some really interesting things going on once the checkpoints can be eliminated, beyond just turning those two boundary roads into a true divided boulevard street/highway.

Mike

Far more likely, they'd just tear one up.  Certainly don't need 4 lanes there if the boundary isn't an issue.

[corco]

Far more likely, they'd just tear one up.  Certainly don't need 4 lanes there if the boundary isn't an issue.

It would be a neat symbolic gesture to preserve both roads as a totally pointless divided highway though

[Dr Frankenstein]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

I remember you telling your misadventure. That's completely ridiculous. I also assume the Canadian entrance to their library (which also straddles the border) is closed now?

The CBP's measures seem like nothing but security theatre. I've heard/read accounts of the town's own population being fed up with that bullshit. The locals mostly regard Derby Line and Stanstead as one village, and the library was deliberately built on the border as a symbol of union and cooperation between the two villages and countries, if I recall correctly. It's sad to see the two countries lose any sense of trust to each other, on grounds of "security" and immigration/import/export control. This is Canada, not Mexico. Meanwhile, Europe has had open borders for quite a while.

Back on topic... there is one such boundary road near Derby Line, on the Beebe, QC side, called "Canusa Avenue". On the north side of the road, cars in driveways have Québec plates; on the south side, Vermont plates. The pavement is actually in Québec, the border runs just south of the road, across lawns and driveways. There's as U.S. customs facility at the western end of the road, and you can also head north from there to stay in Canada. I've used this crossing to avoid the sometimes very long waiting lines at the I-91 station.

[agentsteel53]

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

indeed - if Europe can do it, despite having wanted to literally drive each other into extinction as recently as 1945...

[twinsfan87]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

Or just combine the US and Canada into one country! No need for border protection then!

[Takumi]

Yeah, that'll go over well...

[ghYHZ]

The CBP's measures seem like nothing but security theatre. I've heard/read accounts of the town's own population being fed up with that bullshit.

And just up the road in Rouses Point they rely on each other's fire departments for back-up in an emergency. Here a news story where the Quebec fire trucks were delayed at the border while US CBP actually took time to run the truck's plates (what were they going to find!).......and the building burnt!

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=656269d0-a2aa-4fb7-89b3-68a61a2a1fd8

[realjd]

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

For that to happen, we'd have both have to completely redo our immigration laws so they are consistent. I can't see either country going for that. It's not so much the Americans and Canadians crossing the border that is the concern, it's foreigners using one country to bypass immigration in the other.

[1995hoo]

You're probably thinking (when you mention the library) of Derby Line, Vt./Rock Island, Quebec.

that place is a crock of fascist pigshit.  do not do the casual and completely expected activity of walking two feet into the other country.  upon your return, you will get interrogated heavily.

I remember you telling your misadventure. That's completely ridiculous. I also assume the Canadian entrance to their library (which also straddles the border) is closed now?

The CBP's measures seem like nothing but security theatre. I've heard/read accounts of the town's own population being fed up with that bullshit. The locals mostly regard Derby Line and Stanstead as one village, and the library was deliberately built on the border as a symbol of union and cooperation between the two villages and countries, if I recall correctly. It's sad to see the two countries lose any sense of trust to each other, on grounds of "security" and immigration/import/export control. This is Canada, not Mexico. Meanwhile, Europe has had open borders for quite a while.

Back on topic... there is one such boundary road near Derby Line, on the Beebe, QC side, called "Canusa Avenue". On the north side of the road, cars in driveways have Québec plates; on the south side, Vermont plates. The pavement is actually in Québec, the border runs just south of the road, across lawns and driveways. There's as U.S. customs facility at the western end of the road, and you can also head north from there to stay in Canada. I've used this crossing to avoid the sometimes very long waiting lines at the I-91 station.

Slightly off the road topic, I read an article that talked about how certain aspects of living there can be a real hassle in terms of houses located on the border. If your house is in Canada but your driveway connects to a road in the USA, US CBP requires you to go to the Customs station at the end of the block every time you drive anywhere (what a nuisance that would be if you're going somewhere in Canada and you have to pass back and forth through immigration every time). People whose houses straddle the border–and apparently there are some–have to deal with different Canadian and American standards for things like toilets, hot water heaters, etc., so they have to buy different equipment depending on the part of the house in which something will be installed. People who are citizens of one country and not the other are careful to locate their beds in the "correct" country so that they can't be accused of improperly spending too much time in the other.

It sounds like a classic example of government adherence to procedure getting totally out of control in the face of the realities of life.

For another example of that sort of thing, look up the saga of the fellow who was jailed in Maine when he crossed the border to buy gas in Estcourt Station–a municipality in Maine that can be reached by road only via Canada–and failed to report to Customs. I think his name was Michel Jalavert. Once upon a time it was routine for Canadians to cross into the US to buy gas because it's so much cheaper south of the border. I imagine some people still do it but that the increased immigration control hassles have caused some people to forget it.

But returning to the Canusa Avenue topic, obviously in a town the authorities can make provision for houses located right on the border. Anyone know how it works in more remote areas? That is, there are various border crossings that are not staffed 24/7 as it is. What happens when someone's property in a remote area directly abuts the border? I assume the law requires you to travel around via the road in your own country and cross the border properly. Does the Border Patrol routinely travel through such areas ensuring that people didn't, say, build a driveway connecting to a road in the other country? We always hear about the Border Patrol activities down along the Mexican border but we seldom hear much about activity along the Canadian border.

[agentsteel53]

the Michel Jalabert story is pure unmitigated horseshit.  the US Border Patrol up there needs to realize they're not at I-5 coming out of Tijuana, and make appropriate concessions to common sense.

[SSOWorld]

The customs-free border crossing will not happen until Canada meets requirements set upon them by the U.S. (smuggling, anti-terrorism standards - I forget exactly what.)

[agentsteel53]

The customs-free border crossing will not happen until the US stops attempting to enforce its paranoia about terrorism upon sovereign nations with more common sense.

fixed that for ya.

[mgk920]

The customs-free border crossing will not happen until Canada meets requirements set upon them by the U.S. (smuggling, anti-terrorism standards - I forget exactly what.)

From what I am aware of, and I have mentioned this in prior discussions on this topic, the problem is Canada's refugee policies.  For those coming to the USA claiming refugee status, the USA will hold them in overseas camps while their cases are investigated and then admit them when they clear while Canada will admit refugees first and then investigate their cases later - an unacceptable security risk in the eyes of the USA.  If/when Canada ever gets around to harmonizing that policy, it is my belief that the checkpoints can then be safely removed.

Mike

[vdeane]

It's one of the many reasons customs needs to be done away with on the US/Canada border.

For that to happen, we'd have both have to completely redo our immigration laws so they are consistent. I can't see either country going for that. It's not so much the Americans and Canadians crossing the border that is the concern, it's foreigners using one country to bypass immigration in the other.

The customs-free border crossing will not happen until Canada meets requirements set upon them by the U.S. (smuggling, anti-terrorism standards - I forget exactly what.)

From what I am aware of, and I have mentioned this in prior discussions on this topic, the problem is Canada's refugee policies.  For those coming to the USA claiming refugee status, the USA will hold them in overseas camps while their cases are investigated and then admit them when they clear while Canada will admit refugees first and then investigate their cases later - an unacceptable security risk in the eyes of the USA.  If/when Canada ever gets around to harmonizing that policy, it is my belief that the checkpoints can then be safely removed.

Mike

So just give all US and Canadian citizens a free pass over the border if they have nothing to declare and be done with it.  The EU has completely open borders, and differing immigration laws didn't stop them.  Of course, the EU accurately assesses threats, while the US alternates between believing a threat is harmless and that the threat is putting them in mortal danger.