"Downtown" vs. "City Center"

[sp_redelectric]

Is there a rhyme or reason why ODOT differs in how to define the core of a city?

Historically ODOT has used "City Center".  However in Corvallis and Eugene, signs read "Downtown" instead.

Likewise, once upon a time ODOT always referred to the "Ocean Beaches" but newer signs read "Oregon Coast".

[roadman65]

What about Pennsylvania using "Center City?"

[kphoger]

Wichita's downtown is signed 'Central Business District'.  Which works OK, though not great.
What's really stupid, though, is that VMSes refer to it as 'CBD EXIT'.  Like any normal dude on the highway is going to know what that means!

[achilles765]

New Orleans is IH 10 is signed "New Orleans Business District" too.  though I haven't seen any indication of it on the VMSs, but it has been a while since I drove in NOLA that much. 
Here in Texas I also see downtown listed on the signs, especially here in Houston, and the VMS usually say "10 MIN to Downtown."  I have only seen City Center in Philly now that I think of it; and only seen downtown aside from NOLA

[tdindy88]

I was in Portland last year and I thought I saw on one of their wayfinder signs in the City Center identified a particular part of the area as Downtown (to the south of Old Town/Chinatowna and the Pearl District and north of the University District, according to the map.) Is this the case, is downtown a part of the city center rather than the city center itself.

[xonhulu]

I Googled "Portland Oregon Neighborhoods," and one of the neighborhood associations does call itself "Downtown."  However, I've never noticed ODOT referencing divisions of cities like this.  I suspect there's really no rhyme or reason to their using "Downtown" vs. "City Center."

I have also noticed the shift from "Ocean Beaches" to "Oregon Coast."  I took it to be a realization on ODOT's part that, most of the year, Oregon's beaches really aren't too much of a draw except to those who enjoy being cold, wet, and miserable!

[sp_redelectric]

I was in Portland last year and I thought I saw on one of their wayfinder signs in the City Center identified a particular part of the area as Downtown (to the south of Old Town/Chinatowna and the Pearl District and north of the University District, according to the map.) Is this the case, is downtown a part of the city center rather than the city center itself.

I was referring specifically to ODOT's highway signs, but yes - the wayfinder signs do refer to "downtown" (the shopping district around Pioneer Square, soon to be renamed the Pioneer District'.)

I'm not aware of any ODOT signs in Portland that refer to "Downtown" but there is a southbound City Center exit (Broadway) and a northbound City Center exit (Naito Parkway, but the exit is actually for Harbor Drive).  I wonder if ODOT's recent practice of eliminating place names on interchange signs in favor of street/road names will extend to Portland soon.  (For example, the old Tualatin/Sherwood exit is now Nyberg Road/Tualatin-Sherwood Road; the old Lake Oswego/Durham exit is now Lower Boones Ferry Road).

[bassoon1986]

New Orleans is IH 10 is signed "New Orleans Business District" too.  though I haven't seen any indication of it on the VMSs, but it has been a while since I drove in NOLA that much. 
Here in Texas I also see downtown listed on the signs, especially here in Houston, and the VMS usually say "10 MIN to Downtown."  I have only seen City Center in Philly now that I think of it; and only seen downtown aside from NOLA

As far as I know the signs in Louisiana all say Business district and Texas signs say downtown. New Orleans and Baton Rouge say "Business District" as a destination on BGS like I-10 heading towards the French Quarter, or I-110 heading toward the State Capitol. Shreveport has it as a small green sign on WB I-20 - "Shreveport central business district next 3 exits"

Houston has "Downtown" as a destination on BGS's but Dallas and FW only have it for specific exits

[nexus73]

A diversion from the topic title: Where I-5 meets 38/99, there were signs for both Coos Bay and North Bend leading up to the exit as one was southbound.  A North Bend city councilor fought hard with ODOT to get North Bend mentioned on an I-5 sign.  Now there is no mention of either town after ODOT replaced these signs with an "Oregon Coast" one.  Coos Bay/North Bend is the largest urban area on the Oregon Coast BTW. 

Rick

[achilles765]

New Orleans is IH 10 is signed "New Orleans Business District" too.  though I haven't seen any indication of it on the VMSs, but it has been a while since I drove in NOLA that much. 
Here in Texas I also see downtown listed on the signs, especially here in Houston, and the VMS usually say "10 MIN to Downtown."  I have only seen City Center in Philly now that I think of it; and only seen downtown aside from NOLA

As far as I know the signs in Louisiana all say Business district and Texas signs say downtown. New Orleans and Baton Rouge say "Business District" as a destination on BGS like I-10 heading towards the French Quarter, or I-110 heading toward the State Capitol. Shreveport has it as a small green sign on WB I-20 - "Shreveport central business district next 3 exits"

Houston has "Downtown" as a destination on BGS's but Dallas and FW only have it for specific exits

Ah I forgot about BR... been a while since I lived and spent much time there.  When I was there it said "Business District/Metro Airport" for 110 when heading east across the bridge on IH 10, but heading west the first advance sign near LSu says "IH 110 North: Downtown/Metro Airport."  May hve been changed: I haven;t driven there in several months

[sp_redelectric]

A diversion from the topic title: Where I-5 meets 38/99, there were signs for both Coos Bay and North Bend leading up to the exit as one was southbound.  A North Bend city councilor fought hard with ODOT to get North Bend mentioned on an I-5 sign.

Having grown up in McMinnville I've always wondered why Newberg has multiple exits, but McMinnville (which has a population nearly 50% larger than Newberg) has just one secondary sign, southbound at Exit 294 (and no signs northbound).  But on Oregon 217, the control cities for 99W are Tigard and McMinnville (not Newberg).

Further, in downtown Salem on the approach to the Marion Street Bridge, the BGS reads "Dayton" - a tiny town of barely over 1,000 residents - one must take the exit to Oregon 221 and make that sharp right turn before McMinnville gets a sign.  (Apparently the ODOT designated route to McMinnville is to continue west on 22 to Rickreall and catch 99W from there.)

I do remember a few years ago that Gresham raised a stink about the lack of any signage on I-84 and ODOT changed a few signs in response.  And only recently was Maywood Park recognized on I-205 (to the effect that you can actually see both "Entering Maywood Park" and "Entering Portland" signs at the same time, the signs being just a few hundred feet apart.)  ODOT's recent signage changes have, however, demoted Durham and Donald and neither are now mentioned on I-5 signs.  IIRC, Brooks and Gervais will probably "disappear" too.

[qguy]

What about Pennsylvania using "Center City?"

In PA, the term "Center City" is only used by locals in Philadelphia. The locals in other metro areas in the state (Pittsburgh, Scranton & Wilkes-Barre, Harrisburg, etc.) say "downtown."

In Pittsburgh this is pronounced "dahn tahn," which is just the beginning of what is known in the region as Pittsburghese and usually attributed to an unknown environmental hydrous factor (i.e.—something in the water).

[goobnav]

Actually, as a native of Wilkes-Barre, the center of town is Public Square or the "Square"

[empirestate]

What about Pennsylvania using "Center City?"

In PA, the term "Center City" is only used by locals in Philadelphia. The locals in other metro areas in the state (Pittsburgh, Scranton & Wilkes-Barre, Harrisburg, etc.) say "downtown."

In Pittsburgh this is pronounced "dahn tahn," which is just the beginning of what is known in the region as Pittsburghese and usually attributed to an unknown environmental hydrous factor (i.e.–something in the water).

I have heard "center city" in other PA cities besides Philly (though notably, not Pittsburgh). A clue is this: if a city has main drags called Chestnut and Walnut streets, you can expect to hear "center city", in much the same way you can expect to hear "Eagles" or "Ravens" rather than "Steelers".

EDIT: How close this differential is to the (Yuengling) "lager line", I'd actually be quite curious to know!

[Beltway]

I have heard "center city" in other PA cities besides Philly (though notably, not Pittsburgh). A clue is this: if a city has main drags called Chestnut and Walnut streets, you can expect to hear "center city", in much the same way you can expect to hear "Eagles" or "Ravens" rather than "Steelers".

If a city has a main drag named Broad Street, it doesn't necessarily have a Broad Street Subway.  See Richmond VA.

[realjd]

I've heard a few NYers bitch about people using the term "downtown" to refer to places that aren't downtown Manhattan...

Other than that, "downtown" and "City Center"/"CBD" are not necessarily identical places. In North America they tend to be, but that doesn't necessarily hold true to the rest of the world.

[empirestate]

I have heard "center city" in other PA cities besides Philly (though notably, not Pittsburgh). A clue is this: if a city has main drags called Chestnut and Walnut streets, you can expect to hear "center city", in much the same way you can expect to hear "Eagles" or "Ravens" rather than "Steelers".

If a city has a main drag named Broad Street, it doesn't necessarily have a Broad Street Subway.  See Richmond VA.

I guess I don't follow the analogy... There is a noticeable distinction between eastern and western Pennsylvania in terms of certain colloquialisms, which may or may not follow football or beer markets (also see "soda" versus "pop" in eastern vs. western NYS), but I'm not sure I see how "Broad Street Subway" relates?

[MrDisco99]

In Manhattan, Downtown and Uptown are not places, they're directions.

If you get on the train at 125th and get off at 59th, you went downtown, even though you're still in the northern reaches of midtown.

South of 14th is Lower Manhattan, though most people get more specific (the Village, Soho, Tribeca, Financial District, etc.)

[Henry]

The Chicago Loop and Uptown Charlotte come to mind...

[kphoger]

The Chicago Loop and Uptown Charlotte come to mind...

The Loop is a very specific area, not quite bounded by the L but that general part of town. 'Downtown Chicago', OTOH, might include (for example) Union Station and UIC.  Navy Pier (more properly in the Streeterville neighborhood), the United Center, and Malcolm X College (both more properly on the Near West Side) might also reasonably be called 'Downtown' for navigational purposes, but I don't think anyone would say they're in the Loop.

[Kacie Jane]

In Manhattan, Downtown and Uptown are not places, they're directions.

If you get on the train at 125th and get off at 59th, you went downtown, even though you're still in the northern reaches of midtown.

South of 14th is Lower Manhattan, though most people get more specific (the Village, Soho, Tribeca, Financial District, etc.)

I would say they're certainly both places and directions.  I hear Downtown as a place name about as often as I hear Lower Manhattan.  And just as you say that Lower Manhattan can be divided into smaller neighborhoods, so are Midtown and Uptown (the latter generally being anything above 96th).

[hobsini2]

The Chicago Loop and Uptown Charlotte come to mind...

The Loop is a very specific area, not quite bounded by the L but that general part of town. 'Downtown Chicago', OTOH, might include (for example) Union Station and UIC.  Navy Pier (more properly in the Streeterville neighborhood), the United Center, and Malcolm X College (both more properly on the Near West Side) might also reasonably be called 'Downtown' for navigational purposes, but I don't think anyone would say they're in the Loop.

The boundaries for Downtown Chicago are generally considered as I-90/94 Kennedy Expy or Halsted St (800W) on the west, Roosevelt Rd (1200S) on the south, the Lakefront (approx 400-600E) on the east, and Oak St (1000N) on the north.
Downtown would include the neighborhoods of The Loop, Streeterville, Mag Mile, Rush & Division, south part of the Gold Coast, east part of River North, east part of West Loop, Greektown, Printer's Row, north part of South Loop, Museum Campus, Grant Park, and Millenium Park.

Here is a map of the city of Chicago's official neighborhoods.
http://www.explorechicago.org/etc/medialib/explore_chicago/tourism/pdfs_guides_and_maps/neighborhood_map.Par.32063.File.tmp/Chicago%20Neighborhoods%20Map.pdf

United Center is widely considered near west side. The only people i ever hear refer to the UC as Downtown are out of town media people (ie ESPN).  Lincoln Park is more likely to be called Downtown when it really is not.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Only place I've seen "City Centre" as a common destination is Canada, and this seems to be the standard terminology (Centre-Ville in Quebec). I see mainly "Downtown" or "Business District" in the U.S. 

[txstateends]

I've seen some guide signs in TX (mostly in the past) using "Business Dist." but more often "Downtown" on them.  The only time I've seen "City Center" is on some downtown Dallas wayfinding signage to define a specific part of their downtown.  Several locals colloquially use "CBD" for the area inside the I-35E/I-30/(unsigned I-345)/(mostly-unsigned Spur 366) even though there is no guide signage using the term.

[empirestate]

You know, now that I'm visiting Rochester I'm reminded that they've installed guide signage around town for the "Center City" district. Of course, by local usage it's still just called "downtown" (though I believe these signs intend to use "Center City" as a larger area, including Downtown proper along with the surrounding inner neighborhoods).