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The Future of US 12 in Wisconsin

Started by US 12 fan, August 20, 2017, 09:46:11 PM

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US 12 fan

To be fair, I've been on US 12 from Middleton to Sauk City a lot of times since they expanded it and I can't say I disagree. I didn't understand why they didn't make that a freeway originally because it does feel like you are driving on a freeway on that road. I know the DOT has a study about making it a freeway from Middleton to 19 in this link. If they make that a priority over a Sauk City bypass, I could understand that.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/default.aspx


dvferyance

I agree the state just rebuilt US 12 through Sauk City like back in 2013 that wasn't that long ago. I think an interchange at Hwy K is the most vital upgrade needed to Hwy 12 right now.

GeekJedi

I agree with everyone's sentiments above. That road needs to be a freeway. However, if I remember right (and I'm sure someone will jump in here) WisDOT had to agree to make it an "expressway" instead in order to get the support it needed to get what is there now built. So really it was the NIMBY's and not WisDOT who is responsible for the mess.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

triplemultiplex

The real missed opportunity was the interchange with Parmenter Street (old US 12 thru Middleton). It's too close to Airport Rd/Century Ave as it is.  Would have been better to extend Parmenter as a frontage road up to CTH K and built and interchange there as part of the Middleton Bypass.  North of that point, I have less of a problem with cross traffic.
(Well, Parmenter might actual have needed to go around the back side of the quarry east of US 12, but same concept.)
Building the CTH K interchange south of the existing intersection under this scheme could have reduced property impacts and allowed for more future flexibility with the erstwhile North Mendota Parkway concept.  It's actually much the same benefit as WisDOT's existing proposal for CTH K, but in a world without a Parmenter Street interchange, it fits better south of K instead of north of K.

The lights at WI 19 and CTH P suck, but they suck less than one positioned at the edge of an urban area fed by a freeway loaded with commuters.
To put it in a historical context, it's like back when US 41/45 still had traffic lights through Menomonee Falls decades ago.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

thspfc

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 31, 2020, 10:57:01 AM
The real missed opportunity was the interchange with Parmenter Street (old US 12 thru Middleton). It's too close to Airport Rd/Century Ave as it is.  Would have been better to extend Parmenter as a frontage road up to CTH K and built and interchange there as part of the Middleton Bypass.  North of that point, I have less of a problem with cross traffic.
Now this is a good idea.

Once they get the CTH-K situation in order, they'll eventually need to upgrade the entirety of US-12 from Middleton to Sauk Prairie to freeway standards, as Sauk becomes more and more of a suburb rather than its own entity. At Springfield Corners, they should build one interchange at WI-19 west, and have WI-19 rerouted along a frontage road until it meets Bates Road. That would include US-12 overpasses at CTH-P and the other WI-19 crossing.

Crash_It

They need to resurface it through Walworth county first. Absolute worst road I've driven on.

skluth

Quote from: thspfc on April 01, 2020, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 31, 2020, 10:57:01 AM
The real missed opportunity was the interchange with Parmenter Street (old US 12 thru Middleton). It's too close to Airport Rd/Century Ave as it is.  Would have been better to extend Parmenter as a frontage road up to CTH K and built and interchange there as part of the Middleton Bypass.  North of that point, I have less of a problem with cross traffic.
Now this is a good idea.

Once they get the CTH-K situation in order, they'll eventually need to upgrade the entirety of US-12 from Middleton to Sauk Prairie to freeway standards, as Sauk becomes more and more of a suburb rather than its own entity. At Springfield Corners, they should build one interchange at WI-19 west, and have WI-19 rerouted along a frontage road until it meets Bates Road. That would include US-12 overpasses at CTH-P and the other WI-19 crossing.

You could build an interchange with CTH-K if you moved it north. If CTH-K continued straight west from where it currently bends south at Pleasant Branch Road until it neared US 12 then did most of it's jog south on the west side of the highway, you'd have enough land to build an interchange and you'd be far enough north of Parmenter Street to have safe distances between access ramps. A frontage road on the east side of US 12 from Fisher Road might be needed to satisfy business owners and residents (except the gas station owner who will be against this regardless). Most of the new road (essentially everything east of US 12) looks to run between fields and possibly different owners, so the only significant piece of property needed is a that nice chunk of farmland NW of Ashton Corners. WisDOT has done this before in other projects like  this one and this one.

triplemultiplex

WisDOT's current preferred alternative for CTH K as per the ongoing study for US 12 between Middleton and WI 19:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/map-southseg.pdf
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

skluth

Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 07, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
WisDOT's current preferred alternative for CTH K as per the ongoing study for US 12 between Middleton and WI 19:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/map-southseg.pdf

Interesting. The Alt 4(?) on the map with the proposed frontage road is essentially what I said.

US 12 fan

It looks like there is going to be a project at the US 12-18 and County AB intersection.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us1218-countyab/default.aspx

I've heard there have been a lot of accidents at that intersection so it makes sense.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: US 12 fan on August 27, 2020, 03:47:56 PM
It looks like there is going to be a project at the US 12-18 and County AB intersection.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us1218-countyab/default.aspx

I've heard there have been a lot of accidents at that intersection so it makes sense.


It is very much needed.  But I don't understand this.

"Access to US 12/18 will be eliminated at the Millpond Road/Long Drive intersection except for eastbound right turns. Frontage roads will be built to connect into the realigned County AB, allowing traffic from neighborhoods and businesses to gain access to US 12/18 through the interchange."

Why are they keeping the at grade intersections at all if they are building the frontage road.  Am I missing something?

thspfc

#61
Regarding US-12 overall, it's kinda funny how the entire corridor between Wis Dells and the IL border has been proposed/studied for upgrades, yet almost half of it is still two lanes.

JREwing78

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 27, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Why are they keeping the at grade intersections at all if they are building the frontage road.  Am I missing something?

They're allowing for right turns off US-12/18 onto Millpond Rd, likely to hold down casino traffic circulating through the interchange at County AB. Seems silly to me, but I don't see how that presents a traffic hazard.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: thspfc on August 27, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Regarding US-12 overall, it's kinda funny how the entire corridor between Wis Dells and the IL border has been proposed/studied for upgrades, yet almost half of it is still two lanes.


I like the way WIDOT is handling it.  Slowly upgrading the corridor over time since it is mostly local traffic.   Between Madison and Cambridge is where it is busiest and will need to upgrade.  Between Cambridge and Elkhorn, the two lanes are completely manageable. 

I-39

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 27, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: US 12 fan on August 27, 2020, 03:47:56 PM
It looks like there is going to be a project at the US 12-18 and County AB intersection.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/us1218-countyab/default.aspx

I've heard there have been a lot of accidents at that intersection so it makes sense.


It is very much needed.  But I don't understand this.

"Access to US 12/18 will be eliminated at the Millpond Road/Long Drive intersection except for eastbound right turns. Frontage roads will be built to connect into the realigned County AB, allowing traffic from neighborhoods and businesses to gain access to US 12/18 through the interchange."

Why are they keeping the at grade intersections at all if they are building the frontage road.  Am I missing something?

It seems odd to be keeping any at-grade access. If you are going to do the freeway conversion, do it all the way.

Furthermore, I'd like to see some progress on an interchange at County K in Middleton. 

I-39

Quote from: thspfc on August 27, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Regarding US-12 overall, it's kinda funny how the entire corridor between Wis Dells and the IL border has been proposed/studied for upgrades, yet almost half of it is still two lanes.

Between Madison and IL, not much more is really needed. The section between Madison and the Dells is where they need to focus. Now that the S curve at County C is being fixed, the top two priorities should be the Sauk City bypass and eliminating the stop lights between Middleton and Sauk City. Once they do those things, they'll be good IMO.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 27, 2020, 03:55:27 PM
"Access to US 12/18 will be eliminated at the Millpond Road/Long Drive intersection except for eastbound right turns. Frontage roads will be built to connect into the realigned County AB, allowing traffic from neighborhoods and businesses to gain access to US 12/18 through the interchange."

Why are they keeping the at grade intersections at all if they are building the frontage road.  Am I missing something?

It's all about the casino.  They no doubt want it to be as convenient as possible to get people from the freeway to their money factory and I'm sure they pressed WisDOT hard to keep that direct access.
At least for the off ramp.  I'm sure they could care less about people leaving.


That Millpond intersection has always sucked with all the garbage trucks making turns in and out of the landfill. Good to see the forward momentum.
I see they're going with a sort of temporary situation on AB north of 12/18 since the long term plan to relocate AB between there and Buckeye Road.
Eventually, it'll be an urban arterial that will feed directly into Sprecher Rd/Reiner Rd forming one corridor from Sun Prairie to US 12/18.  In fact if you look at the intersection of Sprecher and Cottage Grove, you can see r/w being held northeast of the existing intersection for the future realignment up there.  They even put in the sidewalk already.

Now if we can just get some $$ to get that interchange built at CTH K on the other side of the city, we'll be in business.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

The Ghostbuster

I believe when this new exit opens, it will be numbered Exit 269. Eventually, all of US 12/18 from Interstate 39/90 to CTH-N (Exit 272) will be completely up to freeway standards. I wouldn't hold my breath on the freeway upgrades on the opposite end of the corridor happening for quite a while.

mgk920

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 28, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
I believe when this new exit opens, it will be numbered Exit 269. Eventually, all of US 12/18 from Interstate 39/90 to CTH-N (Exit 272) will be completely up to freeway standards. I wouldn't hold my breath on the freeway upgrades on the opposite end of the corridor happening for quite a while.

Also, and I have mentioned this before, I firmly believe that WisDOT made a major and ultimately EXPENSIVE mistake in not designing the I-90/94/US 12 interchange in Lake Delton (Wisconsin Dells area) to have the freeways being completly separate from the local surface traffic, like they are now doing at I-39/90/I-43/WI 81 in Beloit.  As that major tourist area grows and develops, the wisdom of having a separate 'system' interchange there for the overhead through traffic between I-90/94 to/from the northwest and US 12 to/from the south will become more and more apparent.

--------

That could also be a good long-term endpoint for downgrading existing US 12 towards Minneapolis - "[US 12] follow [I-94]".

:nod:

Mike

US 12 fan

They do need to rebuild the freeway from Lake Geneva to Elkhorn. That road is atrocious. Not add more lanes but just repave it.

JREwing78

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 28, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 27, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Regarding US-12 overall, it's kinda funny how the entire corridor between Wis Dells and the IL border has been proposed/studied for upgrades, yet almost half of it is still two lanes.


I like the way WIDOT is handling it.  Slowly upgrading the corridor over time since it is mostly local traffic.   Between Madison and Cambridge is where it is busiest and will need to upgrade.  Between Cambridge and Elkhorn, the two lanes are completely manageable. 

The section between Elkhorn and Whitewater, particularly the multiplex with Hwy 67 south of Hwy 20, is horrifically busy during the summer (AADT of about 12,000, but I'd be shocked if it didn't touch 20,000 in summer). Making a 2-lane direct connection between the two cities (at least to start) would pull off that unnecessary traffic north of Elkhorn.

Other than that, converting the three stoplights around Whitewater to interchanges would solve most of the traffic problems for probably another 20 years, until other changes finally demand 4-laning outright. Current AADT of between 5,000 and 7,500 is solid for a 2-lane, but not excessive. Past County N, it drops below 4,000 vpd, hardly worth 4-laning - at least until WisDOT 4-lanes US-12 west of Fort Atkinson.

Long term, if I was in charge of highway planning for Rock County (or, for that matter, WisDOT), I would be pushing for WisDOT take over County N between Newville and Whitewater as an extension of Hwy 20. It carries a large amount of inter-regional traffic (AADT of 5,000 to 7,500, thanks to UW-Whitewater). AADT of 8,500 on Hwy 59 just east of Newville drops to 3,500 at the intersection with County N. By comparison, parallel Hwy 59 only carries about 4,500-5,000 vpd.

The only real deficiency on County N (besides passing lanes) is right where it meets former (now Business) Hwy 26. There are tight curves there and poor visibility at the intersection, making the current 4-way stop an appropriate band-aid. But the traffic on Bus Hwy 26 doesn't justify having the 4-way stop there, and re-configuring the intersection appropriately will be costly.

The Ghostbuster

The Department of Transportation had initiated a study on US 12 between Whitewater and Elkhorn, as seen on page 32 of this document: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/6yr-hwy-impr/maj-hwy/status.pdf. However, that study was suspended, and I expect the DOT to remove that project from consideration, just like they removed the US 12 Fort Atkinson Bypass from consideration (saying it wouldn't be needed until at least 2035).

SEWIGuy

I just don't see the corner cut from Elkhorn to Whitewater happening. Yeah it can be busy on Summer weekends, but normally it's fine.

I-39

Quote from: mgk920 on August 29, 2020, 01:54:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 28, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
I believe when this new exit opens, it will be numbered Exit 269. Eventually, all of US 12/18 from Interstate 39/90 to CTH-N (Exit 272) will be completely up to freeway standards. I wouldn't hold my breath on the freeway upgrades on the opposite end of the corridor happening for quite a while.

Also, and I have mentioned this before, I firmly believe that WisDOT made a major and ultimately EXPENSIVE mistake in not designing the I-90/94/US 12 interchange in Lake Delton (Wisconsin Dells area) to have the freeways being completly separate from the local surface traffic, like they are now doing at I-39/90/I-43/WI 81 in Beloit.  As that major tourist area grows and develops, the wisdom of having a separate 'system' interchange there for the overhead through traffic between I-90/94 to/from the northwest and US 12 to/from the south will become more and more apparent.

--------

That could also be a good long-term endpoint for downgrading existing US 12 towards Minneapolis - "[US 12] follow [I-94]".

:nod:

Mike

That is not needed until US 12 becomes a full four lane corridor between the Dells and Madison. The next biggest priority needs to be a Sauk City bypass.

US 12 between Cambridge and Illinois is fine. It does not need any further four lane upgrades as most of the traffic is local.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: JREwing78 on August 30, 2020, 12:42:14 PM
Long term, if I was in charge of highway planning for Rock County (or, for that matter, WisDOT), I would be pushing for WisDOT take over County N between Newville and Whitewater as an extension of Hwy 20. It carries a large amount of inter-regional traffic (AADT of 5,000 to 7,500, thanks to UW-Whitewater). AADT of 8,500 on Hwy 59 just east of Newville drops to 3,500 at the intersection with County N. By comparison, parallel Hwy 59 only carries about 4,500-5,000 vpd.

Or switch 59 and CTH N.
59 goes straight to Whitewater and N drops down through Milton
"That's just like... your opinion, man."



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