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New rules to ensure post quality. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: New post quality restrictions  (Read 13538 times)

Scott5114

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New post quality restrictions
« on: July 30, 2021, 07:22:02 PM »

Due to some recent events, we have added a couple of new rules to the list. These rules take effect immediately.

The first is pretty simple:
Quote
What's not allowed:

Posts that have no discernible meaning, only random text, or lack sufficient context to form the basis of or contribute to a discussion.

Basically, every post on the forum should present some sort of idea that either starts a meaningful conversation or forms a part of an on-going one. Nonsense, incoherent rambling, random non-sequiturs, just restating the post above yours in different words, and posts that don't give enough context for anyone to give a meaningful response all fall under this rule. These posts will be deleted (as they already are), and you'll probably receive a warning. Simple enough; 99% of you should have no problem here.

The other may require a little bit more explanation:
Quote
What's not allowed:

Excessive posting. Users posting messages at a high frequency (such as more than 8 posts in an hour or 32 posts over a 24-hour period) may be subject to a temporary cool-down ban if the moderation team judges that a user is making a high rate of low-quality posts.

Going along with the above, we want this forum to be a place for meaningful discussion. Writing a meaningful post is a process that takes a little bit of time and thoughtfulness behind it. Therefore, we are establishing a soft posting rate limit to encourage users to take their time creating interesting posts other users want to read, and to have a way to cut off users who are filling up threads with a high number of low-effort posts.

I want to emphasize here that this is a soft rate limit and the quoted numbers are merely the point at which one of us will check up on your recent post history. Any moderator action that happens then depends on the quality of the posts you made. If, for example, you're away from the forum for a while and then have a burst of activity while you're catching up, we're not going to do anything as long as all of the posts you make are positive contributions to the forum.

If you have any questions, this thread is open for discussion. Thanks for your participation in the forum, guys; I know it sucks having more rules to keep track of, but we want to keep this a place everyone enjoys coming to.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2021, 07:55:21 PM »

Almost all of my posts are short, except when I begin a thread. Will this new rule affect me?

My other question is that is the "8 per hour, 32 per 24 hours" automated, meaning that it will automatically alert a moderator if someone passes it?
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2021, 08:09:58 PM »

My other question is that is the "8 per hour, 32 per 24 hours" automated, meaning that it will automatically alert a moderator if someone passes it?

Yeah, that bugs me too. It would not be uncommon for me to post more than eight replies in one sitting while reading the forum.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2021, 08:13:40 PM »

oh
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Scott5114

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2021, 08:44:28 PM »

Almost all of my posts are short, except when I begin a thread. Will this new rule affect me?

Probably not. Short ≠ low effort, necessarily. A brief but meaningful contribution to a discussion is always welcome.

Here's an example of a post that could theoretically be sanctioned under the rules:
oh
Can't imagine why someone would bother posting something lame like that, but I dunno, it could happen.

My other question is that is the "8 per hour, 32 per 24 hours" automated, meaning that it will automatically alert a moderator if someone passes it?

No. We don't automate moderation at all, and probably never will. This ain't Menlo Park.

This will be implemented by someone noticing "hey, X is posting a lot lately", going to their post history, and manually looking over the posts. If they are good posts, then nothing happens. The numbers there are a rule of thumb for those who are unclear on the concept of "quality over quantity" and need a more concrete guideline to follow as to what that means.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2021, 09:01:27 PM »

Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2021, 09:10:23 PM »

Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.

Reread the above, that number was just a hypothetical example.  There isn’t a black and white rule that objectively states a quantity alone would be a problem.  If the posts are quality in nature there wouldn’t be an issue.  Seemed fairly straight forward the way I read things.   
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2021, 09:11:20 PM »

Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.

Reread the above, that number was just a hypothetical example.  There isn’t a black and white rule that objectively states a quantity alone would be a problem.  If the posts are quality in nature there wouldn’t be an issue.  Seemed fairly straight forward the way I read things.
I should be fine, although some of my posts are useless so I will try to cut those out.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2021, 09:15:32 PM »

Thank you for implementing these new rules. I think we do need to hold posts to a higher quality and divert irrelevant discussion (or non-discussion) to another location.

Please do continue your policy of "no automated moderation" though. There are those days (or parts of a day) when my mind is racing along and I have lots of posts that I want to make that seem decent enough to me. I wouldn't want to be flagged and blocked from posting as a cooldown automatically.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021, 01:27:33 AM »

Thank you for implementing these new rules. I think we do need to hold posts to a higher quality and divert irrelevant discussion (or non-discussion) to another location.

Please do continue your policy of "no automated moderation" though. There are those days (or parts of a day) when my mind is racing along and I have lots of posts that I want to make that seem decent enough to me. I wouldn't want to be flagged and blocked from posting as a cooldown automatically.
Don't worry. We discussed the restrictions and we agree that this doesn't really change how we've been doing business, it's just a clearer explanation of why we make the decisions we do.

jeffandnicole

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2021, 03:52:48 PM »

Quote from: Anybody
Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.

Quote from: Anyone
I should be fine, although some of my posts are useless so I will try to cut those out.

I would think if you need to ask multiple questions regarding the posting guidelines and how you would be affected, maybe you're affected.

If you have to sit there and look at your stats to determine if you've posted 7 times in the past 56 minutes and are waiting 5 minutes to avoid getting the stink eye, maybe you should determine if any of those other 7 posts weren't really quality posts to begin with.  If they were, then you should have nothing to worry about by posting 8 times in 57 minutes.

I seriously doubt the admins are going to take a hard look at most people.  If you're having a good discussion, providing some great examples, you're fine.  If you're having one-line arguments with someone or posting rather pointless questions, give it some thought.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2021, 06:35:11 PM »

Quote from: Anybody
Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.

Quote from: Anyone
I should be fine, although some of my posts are useless so I will try to cut those out.

I would think if you need to ask multiple questions regarding the posting guidelines and how you would be affected, maybe you're affected.

If you have to sit there and look at your stats to determine if you've posted 7 times in the past 56 minutes and are waiting 5 minutes to avoid getting the stink eye, maybe you should determine if any of those other 7 posts weren't really quality posts to begin with.  If they were, then you should have nothing to worry about by posting 8 times in 57 minutes.

I seriously doubt the admins are going to take a hard look at most people.  If you're having a good discussion, providing some great examples, you're fine.  If you're having one-line arguments with someone or posting rather pointless questions, give it some thought.
Well the rules are not absolute, they seem like mostly guidelines to me.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2021, 06:37:29 PM »

Quote from: Anybody
Would I be breaking the quantity rules? I have posted more than 32 posts in a day before. And I often wake up late so I do a catchup spurt at about 1 pm that is sometimes more than 8 posts but not usually.

Quote from: Anyone
I should be fine, although some of my posts are useless so I will try to cut those out.

I would think if you need to ask multiple questions regarding the posting guidelines and how you would be affected, maybe you're affected.

If you have to sit there and look at your stats to determine if you've posted 7 times in the past 56 minutes and are waiting 5 minutes to avoid getting the stink eye, maybe you should determine if any of those other 7 posts weren't really quality posts to begin with.  If they were, then you should have nothing to worry about by posting 8 times in 57 minutes.

I seriously doubt the admins are going to take a hard look at most people.  If you're having a good discussion, providing some great examples, you're fine.  If you're having one-line arguments with someone or posting rather pointless questions, give it some thought.
Well the rules are not absolute, they seem like mostly guidelines to me.

I’m pretty sure you’ll be fine if you aren’t playing peekaboo with gross Vegans.
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Scott5114

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2021, 07:53:33 PM »

Well the rules are not absolute, they seem like mostly guidelines to me.

Yes, but if you find yourself consistently over them, or if you come close, you should perhaps make a willful effort to ration your posting. That is, think of it as a hard limit and consider "Do I really want to use one of my 32 posts today on this?"

Also, remember that just because you open and read a thread, you don't have to post in it. There are plenty of times a normal user will open a thread, read through it, and then return to the thread listing because they simply don't have anything to say that would be worth reading.

Social media sites want you to post/like/retweet as much as possible because they're all based around "engagement". If you react to things, the algorithm knows you care about them, which means it can feed you ads about them. We're not based around engagement, we're based around discussion. Sometimes the best way to contribute to a discussion is to just shut up.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2021, 08:23:20 PM »

^^^^^

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
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hbelkins

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2021, 09:17:22 PM »

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2021, 09:19:41 PM »

Well the rules are not absolute, they seem like mostly guidelines to me.

Yes, but if you find yourself consistently over them, or if you come close, you should perhaps make a willful effort to ration your posting. That is, think of it as a hard limit and consider "Do I really want to use one of my 32 posts today on this?"

Also, remember that just because you open and read a thread, you don't have to post in it. There are plenty of times a normal user will open a thread, read through it, and then return to the thread listing because they simply don't have anything to say that would be worth reading.

Social media sites want you to post/like/retweet as much as possible because they're all based around "engagement". If you react to things, the algorithm knows you care about them, which means it can feed you ads about them. We're not based around engagement, we're based around discussion. Sometimes the best way to contribute to a discussion is to just shut up.
I don't come close to 32 posts anymore, mostly 15-25 posts per day for me.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2021, 01:06:05 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2021, 01:06:57 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
We need a new rule that excessive negativity is not allowed.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2021, 01:14:26 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
We need a new rule that excessive negativity is not allowed.
This is why new guidelines are needed.  It is not necessary for you to reply to this.  Like most of my posts, it was not necessarily directed at you.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:17:30 AM by renegade »
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Scott5114

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2021, 01:26:15 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
We need a new rule that excessive negativity is not allowed.

No, fuck that. If people have concerns that are making them feel uncomfortable here, we need to know about them so they can be addressed. Forcing people to paper a smiling happy face over their concerns for the sake of being positive doesn't work at a job where people get paid to show up; it sure as hell wouldn't work on a site that's free where people can leave at any time with no consequences if they're not feeling it.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2021, 02:40:10 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
We need a new rule that excessive negativity is not allowed.
This is why new guidelines are needed.  It is not necessary for you to reply to this.  Like most of my posts, it was not necessarily directed at you.
I was being sarcastic there.
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2021, 02:42:24 AM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.
I literally did just this about five minutes ago.

It's pretty obvious that this is "special legislation" and inspired by a handful of recent prolific posters.
It's about time.  I'm not opposed to any of these new restrictions.  People are expected to behave themselves in public.  They should also behave themselves here.  I am surprised recent behaviors were permitted to recur for as long as they did.  It's been getting a little uncomfortable around here.  Maybe this new "special legislation" will allow a little more breathing room.

 :hmm:
We need a new rule that excessive negativity is not allowed.
This is why new guidelines are needed.  It is not necessary for you to reply to this.  Like most of my posts, it was not necessarily directed at you.
I was being sarcastic there.
That's two posts toward your limit. Were they necessary? (Again, we are not specifically counting posts per se, but we're aware of who posts high amounts of low quality.)

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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2021, 09:58:17 AM »

You can probably still make more than 8 posts if they're all good quality. ;-)
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Re: New post quality restrictions
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2021, 04:08:53 PM »

There’s also nothing wrong with typing a post and then deciding not to post it. Get it out of your system and then drop it.

I have done this more than a few times, especially on the more hot-button threads. But sometimes I find myself just closing the tab because my post just seems bad or I don't feel like launching a tactical nuke of a post. If you aren't doing this every so often, and you're just posting every little thing that comes into your head, you're probably doing something wrong.

Also, remember that just because you open and read a thread, you don't have to post in it. There are plenty of times a normal user will open a thread, read through it, and then return to the thread listing because they simply don't have anything to say that would be worth reading.

Cases like this are where I wonder if it's worth bringing up the upvote discussion again. Upvotes are great for things you appreciate, laughed at, agree with, etc. but also don't have anything new to say about. Back in the day, I saw a lot of "+1" posts when nothing else could be said. I know stuff like that can divulge into a popularity contest of sorts, however they're just tools at the end of the day: tools that can be abused, or tools that can make the forum a more enjoyable place.

Usually the reason people turn upvotes into a popularity contest is because they're trying to accumulate a high upvote count across the forum. If you enable upvotes, just don't have a running tally for a user. That solves the problem for the most part.

I just thought it would be worth mentioning this again.
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