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Author Topic: New Jersey Turnpike  (Read 1046407 times)

vdeane

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4450 on: April 03, 2022, 07:59:48 PM »

If the NJTA cared, they would've whined to the Feds back in the 1950's when they were designating future corridors and slapping Interstate numbers on existing highways.  I-95 was due to be on the Turnpike from Interchange 10 on north already, so that would've been the time to designate Exits 1 - 10 as I-295. Or I-195. Or I-895. Or whatever.  Designating I-95 down the Turnpike to Interchange 6 would've simply shortened the 3 digit I-number the Turnpike could've had from the start, if they cared.

It's not like the Turnpike was opposed 100% no way no how to Interstate numbering.  After all, it was given I-95 and I-78. 

Why would the NJ Turnpike suddenly in 2022 want an Interstate designation if they didn't want it back in the 1950's?  If they really were concerned about traffic following just solely interstate designations, they wouldn't have spent hundreds of millions to significantly improve Interchange 6 to help traffic get routed into PA, and wouldn't be interested in building a new, wider bridge over the Delaware, and could've told the feds in the earlier 2000's now is the time to declare Exits 1 - 6 an interstate highway. 
Your first statement isn't quite true. Original 95 at some point was conceived as a completely separate roadway.
Interesting.  I know of the originally planned route south of I-287 but north of there the only routings I know of is what's now I-287 to exit 10 and the way it is now.  Where was it supposed to go?
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4451 on: April 03, 2022, 08:26:23 PM »

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SignBridge

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4452 on: April 03, 2022, 10:02:19 PM »

It was going to blast right thru the City of Newark and its adjacent urban communities the same way I-280 did? What a mess that would have been..........
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4453 on: April 04, 2022, 12:05:03 AM »

Looks like it would have went through Clark if originally proposed.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4454 on: April 04, 2022, 08:32:41 AM »

My guess is that NJ 21 would have been utilized from Newark to Passaic if the Turnpike had been routed that way. But even trying to connect I-78 to I-280 would have displaced people if that were done.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4455 on: April 04, 2022, 08:42:38 AM »

My guess is that NJ 21 would have been utilized from Newark to Passaic if the Turnpike had been routed that way. But even trying to connect I-78 to I-280 would have displaced people if that were done.

NJ 75 (unbuilt) was also a corridor that would've been utilized, most likely, but the reason that never happened is exactly what you just said.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4456 on: April 04, 2022, 11:40:11 PM »

My guess is that NJ 21 would have been utilized from Newark to Passaic if the Turnpike had been routed that way. But even trying to connect I-78 to I-280 would have displaced people if that were done.

NJ 75 (unbuilt) was also a corridor that would've been utilized, most likely, but the reason that never happened is exactly what you just said.
Hard to tell, because AFAIK the Turnpike routing was only ever conceptual in nature, whereas NJ 75 was fully designed.

bluecountry

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4457 on: April 10, 2022, 11:22:56 PM »

I always felt IF the Feds were involved from the start with the planning on highways in NJ, we would never have gotten I-295 and the NJTP.  They would have made it one road.
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storm2k

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4458 on: May 02, 2022, 01:18:23 AM »

Drove on the PHMTE on my way to PA today, and I've noticed some interesting things.

1. They reconfigured the Exit 6 toll plaza to finally have two E-ZPass express lanes, which is a nice change.
2. As a result of this, they've put up that frustrating new style of signage that calls it a toll plaza bypass, which is confusing. It still makes it sound like a driver can avoid paying a toll by going that way, even though that is clearly not the case. Honestly, I don't know why the NJTA has gotten wordy with these. Their older signage for express E-ZPass lanes was very much more in line with the accepted MUTCD way of signing such things. Hell, it probably was influential in developing the standards.
3. All the WB signs for the 130 exit now have "Via Toll Plaza" banners atop them. NJTA wants motorists to use the standard toll lanes rather than try to merge over after the express E-ZPass lanes to take the ramp.
4. This stretch of roadway has been repaved, and the lane markers are standard issue MUTCD lane markers, not the Turnpike's usual thicker and longer lane markers. Makes me wonder if this was a contractor error, or if they may start to retire the longer/thicker skip lines as they move forward with paving projects in the future.
5. This sign, which is clearly done by the PTC has a very badly peeling 13 shield.
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SignBridge

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4459 on: May 02, 2022, 07:36:31 PM »

Storm2k, in your item #2 above, you say the term Toll Plaza Bypass makes it sound like you don't have to pay a toll. I strongly disagree. Because it also says E-Z Pass Only. So if the E-Z Pass is required to use those lanes, obviously you are going to be paying a toll because the sign wouldn't say that if there was no toll.

Re: your item #4 about the lane marking stripes. I share your concern and I hope the NJTA will not be phasing out their traditional longer/wider lane lines. 
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4460 on: May 02, 2022, 10:34:47 PM »

Storm2k, in your item #2 above, you say the term Toll Plaza Bypass makes it sound like you don't have to pay a toll. I strongly disagree. Because it also says E-Z Pass Only. So if the E-Z Pass is required to use those lanes, obviously you are going to be paying a toll because the sign wouldn't say that if there was no toll.

Re: your item #4 about the lane marking stripes. I share your concern and I hope the NJTA will not be phasing out their traditional longer/wider lane lines. 
I would still prefer a term that made it clear it's not a toll plaza bypass, it's the express lanes where you can maintain speed. Garden State Parkway doesn't say bypass! IT... oh, wait, it does. Oh well.

famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4461 on: May 02, 2022, 11:02:09 PM »

Storm2k, in your item #2 above, you say the term Toll Plaza Bypass makes it sound like you don't have to pay a toll. I strongly disagree. Because it also says E-Z Pass Only. So if the E-Z Pass is required to use those lanes, obviously you are going to be paying a toll because the sign wouldn't say that if there was no toll.

Re: your item #4 about the lane marking stripes. I share your concern and I hope the NJTA will not be phasing out their traditional longer/wider lane lines. 
I would still prefer a term that made it clear it's not a toll plaza bypass, it's the express lanes where you can maintain speed. Garden State Parkway doesn't say bypass! IT... oh, wait, it does. Oh well.

So odd that they did it that way even though its a new thing for both roads since the merger.
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Flyer78

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4462 on: May 02, 2022, 11:28:30 PM »


5. This sign, which is clearly done by the PTC has a very badly peeling 13 shield.

Other than Clearview, and the pealing shield, it has fully rounded corners and NJTP mounts; maybe it was done as an homage to PA Tpk signage... but I would argue the recent installs (even Clearview) look (and have held-up) better than that.
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theroadwayone

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4463 on: May 03, 2022, 03:44:34 AM »

Storm2k, in your item #2 above, you say the term Toll Plaza Bypass makes it sound like you don't have to pay a toll. I strongly disagree. Because it also says E-Z Pass Only. So if the E-Z Pass is required to use those lanes, obviously you are going to be paying a toll because the sign wouldn't say that if there was no toll.

Re: your item #4 about the lane marking stripes. I share your concern and I hope the NJTA will not be phasing out their traditional longer/wider lane lines. 
I would still prefer a term that made it clear it's not a toll plaza bypass, it's the express lanes where you can maintain speed. Garden State Parkway doesn't say bypass! IT... oh, wait, it does. Oh well.

So odd that they did it that way even though its a new thing for both roads since the merger.
The GSV footage from late last year shows Exits 1 and 18W as having "Express E-ZPass" lanes.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4464 on: May 03, 2022, 09:48:28 AM »

Call it a merge, or call it a confluence. Call it a crossroad or call it a junction.   

Same with Toll Bypass or Express Toll Lane.


We just had a discussion about what each part of the country calls a frontage road. Different states use different terms just as the NJTA called the c/d roadway in Brick a service road ( which many use this term to refer to a frontage road not part of the freeway) when the NJ 70 exchange got rebuilt in on line documents.

What’s the difference? Long as it’s functioning as it should and has the nature preserved, what’s in a name.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4465 on: May 03, 2022, 12:23:32 PM »

Call it a merge, or call it a confluence. Call it a crossroad or call it a junction.   

Same with Toll Bypass or Express Toll Lane.


We just had a discussion about what each part of the country calls a frontage road. Different states use different terms just as the NJTA called the c/d roadway in Brick a service road ( which many use this term to refer to a frontage road not part of the freeway) when the NJ 70 exchange got rebuilt in on line documents.

What’s the difference? Long as it’s functioning as it should and has the nature preserved, what’s in a name.

I'd argue that a service or frontage road can have local private access, which is not the case with a CD road on freeway.
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1995hoo

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4466 on: May 03, 2022, 12:42:26 PM »

Some of our radio traffic reporters here use the term "service road" to refer to a C/D road. While it's not technically correct, it's also not a big deal because it's clear what they mean and it's a shorter term—given their limited time to give their reports, I can't grouse too much about them using a shorter term, and I suspect "collector/distributor roadway" or "C/D road" would not be terms most listeners would necessarily know.

(With that said, I hate it when they refer to the tenth-of-a-mile mileposts in the form "Mile 143 over 2." It's not a fraction. It's Mile 143.2.)
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4467 on: May 03, 2022, 01:02:33 PM »

Call it a merge, or call it a confluence. Call it a crossroad or call it a junction.   

Same with Toll Bypass or Express Toll Lane.


We just had a discussion about what each part of the country calls a frontage road. Different states use different terms just as the NJTA called the c/d roadway in Brick a service road ( which many use this term to refer to a frontage road not part of the freeway) when the NJ 70 exchange got rebuilt in on line documents.

What’s the difference? Long as it’s functioning as it should and has the nature preserved, what’s in a name.

I'd argue that a service or frontage road can have local private access, which is not the case with a CD road on freeway.


Exactly. That is why when the Exit 88 project was introduced on the Parkway website, the engineers who wrote the project details used Service Road addition to the combining of Exits 88 and 89  to describe the c/d roadway to connect the two interchanges to make them one.

I initially thought the NJTA was going to have a local access road similar to Texas run on both sides of the Parkway. Then when I saw that it was a c/d roadway being built I figured out engineers at NJTA have never heard of Collector Distributor being used in vocabulary.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4468 on: May 03, 2022, 01:07:15 PM »

Some of our radio traffic reporters here use the term "service road" to refer to a C/D road. While it's not technically correct, it's also not a big deal because it's clear what they mean and it's a shorter term—given their limited time to give their reports, I can't grouse too much about them using a shorter term, and I suspect "collector/distributor roadway" or "C/D road" would not be terms most listeners would necessarily know.

(With that said, I hate it when they refer to the tenth-of-a-mile mileposts in the form "Mile 143 over 2." It's not a fraction. It's Mile 143.2.)

While I won't go as far as to say it's regional terminology like calling everything "Route (number)", there is a lot of people in the state, including official people from NJDOT, that will refer to mileposts as "number over number".
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4469 on: May 03, 2022, 01:11:03 PM »

Some of our radio traffic reporters here use the term "service road" to refer to a C/D road. While it's not technically correct, it's also not a big deal because it's clear what they mean and it's a shorter term—given their limited time to give their reports, I can't grouse too much about them using a shorter term, and I suspect "collector/distributor roadway" or "C/D road" would not be terms most listeners would necessarily know.

(With that said, I hate it when they refer to the tenth-of-a-mile mileposts in the form "Mile 143 over 2." It's not a fraction. It's Mile 143.2.)

That lingo was from cb radio days. Users of Citizen Band Radios in New Jersey would refer to 135.9 on the Parkway is one thirty five over 9 because the way the NJTA used to write the tenth mile markers with the 135 on top in one color and nine in reverse color on the bottom on their markers.

The former NJHA did so too.  That caught on nation wide on the CB and made it to the DC Area I’m sure.

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« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 01:16:05 PM by roadman65 »
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4470 on: May 03, 2022, 05:21:28 PM »

The NJSP uses number-over-number on radio call outs as well.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4471 on: May 03, 2022, 07:08:58 PM »

Back before the MM 16 on I-287 got moved back, the State Police had a speed trap at the former just south of I-78.  Everone on the CB would refer to the milepost as the “16 Yard Sticker” for some unknown reason.
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bluecountry

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4472 on: May 20, 2022, 02:39:42 PM »

Why doesn't the NJTP like doing a 4 lane design?
I think between exit 6 and 4 that would be best.
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storm2k

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4473 on: May 20, 2022, 03:06:36 PM »

Why doesn't the NJTP like doing a 4 lane design?
I think between exit 6 and 4 that would be best.

What would be gained for that? Honestly the traffic mostly flows between those two points, especially with more traffic now diverting off at Exit 6 to follow 95 into PA. The focus needs to be on widening from 1 to 4 from 2 lanes to 3 which is why that's a major focus of the current 10 year plan for the Turnpike Authority.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4474 on: May 20, 2022, 03:22:12 PM »

He asked this last year, i seem to recall.
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