News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

New York State Thruway

Started by Zeffy, September 22, 2014, 12:00:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

machias

Quote from: webny99 on April 01, 2021, 04:46:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 01, 2021, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 01, 2021, 12:55:49 PM
Looks like the Thruway has finally put the schedule of toll booth removals/reconstructions on their website.
http://thruway.ny.gov/cashless/demo-schedule.html
Ramp from Thruway EB to I-690 is in sore need of reconstruction.

Agreed, and really all of Exit 39.

They just built in the late 1980s, how on earth can it need work already? /s


crispy93

There's still a Construction Ahead - Stay Alert! sign on I-84 w/b approaching the Thruway, along with an old No Shoulder sign afterward. They were put up when the 84/87 interchange was being built maybe 15 years ago? Can't believe they haven't been taken down. NYSTA maintained I-84, which was the style at the time. You can even roll GSV back to 2007 and see when it was still orange https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5137846,-74.0491554,3a,48.9y,277.07h,88.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM1muMp0ZWwJF1TWGoqXGVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Not every speed limit in NY needs to be 30

seicer

Quote from: machias on April 02, 2021, 08:44:54 PM
They just built in the late 1980s, how on earth can it need work already? /s

Salt. Plus, that's 30+ years.

vdeane

Quote from: seicer on April 16, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
Quote from: machias on April 02, 2021, 08:44:54 PM
They just built in the late 1980s, how on earth can it need work already? /s

Salt. Plus, that's 30+ years.
/s means sarcasm.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Jim

Activity has started at Exit 27's toll booths.  At least one booth is completely gutted and it looks like some parts have been removed from a couple more.

I've been in contact with some local officials to see if they can help save some piece of the toll booths to put on display in one of our local parks, but I don't think anything's going to come of it.  I was thinking a whole booth would be nice but if not that maybe the old blue Thruway sign on the top.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

SignBridge

That would be an interesting display for a public park. So people can show their grand children how tolls were paid for a hundred years by actually stopping and handing money to an attendant. Kind of like telling children (and young adults) today about dial telephones. And phone booths..........

Roadgeek Adam

49 is down save for parts of the mounting supports.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

cl94

All of the Berkshire Spur's toll plazas have been removed with relatively unimpeded traffic. The mainline barrier at Canaan is in the final stages of paving with a lane closure. B1 went from mostly up to completely down and paved over in the span of 2 weeks.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

empirestate

Quote from: cl94 on April 17, 2021, 11:58:31 PM
All of the Berkshire Spur's toll plazas have been removed with relatively unimpeded traffic. The mainline barrier at Canaan is in the final stages of paving with a lane closure. B1 went from mostly up to completely down and paved over in the span of 2 weeks.

Yes, B2 was also removed when I went through two weeks ago. However (perhaps apropos to the above), the little building with the "B2" on top of it still stands. I'm guessing it will stay as some kind of little maintenance depot.

Jim

At Exit 27 this morning: 2 booths in process of being demolished (unfortunately, it doesn't look like they're trying to save anything) and 2 booths still standing with traffic passing through, one in each direction.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

cl94

Toll plaza at 25A is completely down. A permanent concrete median barrier has been installed and the EB exit ramp at I-88 Exit 25 has been modified to allow for WB exiting traffic to reenter and access the tandem lot. If not for the new asphalt at the former booths themselves, it would be hard to tell where exactly they were.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Jim

Also 26 was completely down and the area paved over when I went through on Thursday.

27 was still half up half down on Friday afternoon.  The area of roadway near the booths that were removed was dug down somewhat below the road surface.

I did get word from a couple of local officials that they were able to acquire one of the 27 toll booths intact and have possession of it for a future exhibit, hopefully at Riverlink Park.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

vdeane

Quote from: Jim on April 24, 2021, 08:21:39 PM
I did get word from a couple of local officials that they were able to acquire one of the 27 toll booths intact and have possession of it for a future exhibit, hopefully at Riverlink Park.
Still, it will be less impressive than the whole barrier preserved from the Merritt.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Roadgeek Adam

Would you rather have nothing? Because that's always an option too.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

vdeane

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on April 24, 2021, 10:47:54 PM
Would you rather have nothing? Because that's always an option too.
Do you presume that preserving a full barrier is somehow impossible or something?  There are plenty still around if they want to try going for the full experience.  IMO individual booths don't exactly evoke the full experience of going through a barrier, especially since the differences between the various toll agencies is largely in canopy design; the Thruway booths and the Delaware Turnpike booth that used to be on display at the rest area are very similar, for example, even though the full barriers look nothing alike.

(although honestly, it never even occurred to me to make a Merritt experience until it had already been brought up here)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Roadgeek Adam

My point is the Thruway Authority/contractor didn't have to give the local officials anything. They were nice enough to give them one. One is better than none. We don't need the full thing.
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

Jim

When I suggested it, I really expected a response that it would be nice but that it would cost too much, or that there would be no way to get anything worth saving from without damaging it too much in the removal process.  I was happy to get a "I love this idea, let's try to make it happen" response.  I figured at best the city could get the old "New York Thruway" blue sign from on top, or some artifacts from inside the toll booths.  I'm just glad that a small piece of local history has a chance to be preserved.  For placement in the park, I'm thinking one booth is about right.  As I understand it, the Historic Amsterdam League will be taking the lead on what to do with the toll booth.

If someone wanted to preserve a few complete lanes, it seems it would have been best to keep them in-place.  I don't think you'd reconstruct the big concrete barriers and all that.  In-place preservation is not feasible at most of the regular exits without rerouting the ramps around the old booths.  Too late now, but maybe something like the two lanes on the right when exiting at 24 could have been preserved with enough space remaining to have the 8 travel lanes.  Though the 24 tolls were built much more recently than what you have/had at most other exits, so the historic interest might be lower.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

astralentity

Now that the Thruway is completely converted to electronic tolling only, my position still stands that the exit numbers and mileage need to be reset to match that of I-90 and I-87 separately.  No more B prefixed mile markers and exits.  Please for the love of God.

vdeane

Quote from: Jim on April 25, 2021, 07:32:46 AM
When I suggested it, I really expected a response that it would be nice but that it would cost too much, or that there would be no way to get anything worth saving from without damaging it too much in the removal process.  I was happy to get a "I love this idea, let's try to make it happen" response.  I figured at best the city could get the old "New York Thruway" blue sign from on top, or some artifacts from inside the toll booths.  I'm just glad that a small piece of local history has a chance to be preserved.  For placement in the park, I'm thinking one booth is about right.  As I understand it, the Historic Amsterdam League will be taking the lead on what to do with the toll booth.

If someone wanted to preserve a few complete lanes, it seems it would have been best to keep them in-place.  I don't think you'd reconstruct the big concrete barriers and all that.  In-place preservation is not feasible at most of the regular exits without rerouting the ramps around the old booths.  Too late now, but maybe something like the two lanes on the right when exiting at 24 could have been preserved with enough space remaining to have the 8 travel lanes.  Though the 24 tolls were built much more recently than what you have/had at most other exits, so the historic interest might be lower.
The Merritt one seems to have, but then, they have the Conservancy.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

empirestate

Quote from: astralentity on April 25, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Now that the Thruway is completely converted to electronic tolling only, my position still stands that the exit numbers and mileage need to be reset to match that of I-90 and I-87 separately.  No more B prefixed mile markers and exits.  Please for the love of God.

What's the correlation between the numbering and the mode of toll collection?

astralentity

Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:47:57 PM
Quote from: astralentity on April 25, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Now that the Thruway is completely converted to electronic tolling only, my position still stands that the exit numbers and mileage need to be reset to match that of I-90 and I-87 separately.  No more B prefixed mile markers and exits.  Please for the love of God.

What's the correlation between the numbering and the mode of toll collection?

IIRC it had a lot to do with the old ticket system, but then again that could've just been cover for the politics of it all.

MASTERNC

Quote from: SignBridge on April 17, 2021, 07:58:28 PM
That would be an interesting display for a public park. So people can show their grand children how tolls were paid for a hundred years by actually stopping and handing money to an attendant. Kind of like telling children (and young adults) today about dial telephones. And phone booths..........

More like a children's museum item

empirestate

Quote from: astralentity on April 26, 2021, 07:11:32 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:47:57 PM
What's the correlation between the numbering and the mode of toll collection?

IIRC it had a lot to do with the old ticket system, but then again that could've just been cover for the politics of it all.

Right, but what was it about the old ticket system, that you recall? (I'm asking because I don't know, not because I doubt you.)

I'm not sure it was ever about anything but that it's the Thruway, it was there first, it's a self-contained system under a separate authority, and it just generally takes precedence, so why shouldn't everybody else adjust to it instead of the other way around?...and so forth and so on. Maybe they did put forth some more persuasive argument, but my hunch is that most of the persuasion has remained within our own little community here. :)

SignBridge

I thought the issue was that if you renumbered the exits on the separate numerical routes you might have duplicate exit numbers on the Thruway toll system which would have caused confusion re: toll computation. In fact you could enter and leave the T'way at two exits with the same number, right?

shadyjay

If you look at other toll roads with ticket systems (or former ticket systems), the route number doesn't mean anything... it's all about the authority road itself, as it was built before the interstates.  The Ohio Turnpike changes from I-80 to I-76 near its east end, yet its exit numbers are basically I-80's (as I-80 exists on the road entirely to the west)... I-76 gets ignored, as it was added on later.  Same thing with the PA Turnpike.... I-76 leaves at Valley Forge and I-276 begin, but yet the mileage and exit numbers continue from the start of the turnpike at the OH state line.  When I-95's interchange was built, those few miles that got signed I-95 received I-95 exit numbers/mileage to keep that road continuous.  There's no ticket system to worry about at that point, it having been moved back to the west.  Mass Pike didn't matter, since its I-90 from end to end. 

The Maine Turnpike was under a ticket system and I-95 exited and reentered twice, changing exit numbers and causing much confusion.  The solution there was just to reroute I-95.  Unfortunately, you can't just reroute I-90 or I-87 in New York as you're dealing with roads with two different orientations (E/W and N/S). 

Now one has to wonder if the Thruway is under its own authority and funding source, is it required by federal law to switch to mile-based exit numbers?  Many other turnpikes held onto sequential numbering even as other interstates had mile-based exits.  I have a RMcN atlas from the 80s which shows sequential exits on the Ohio Turnpike, but mile-based exits on the free interstates.  They converted later probably as a courtesy to motorists to be on par with the rest of the state. 

Perhaps if the New York Thruway was divided into two ticket systems on the mainline, then the switch may have occured years ago... such as one ticket for Harriman-to-Selkirk and another from Schenectady-to-Buffalo.  Then the exits could have changed and there'd be no confusion.  You'd need two more booths but you could have had free travel Selkirk to Schenectady on the mainline, and retained the Int. 24/Northway and the Berkshire spur "Exit" B3 plaza as straight-up fixed barrier tolls. 



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.