PA Turnpike News

[briantroutman]

That longitudinal space above the ceiling (in tunnels that have one) is called a ventilation plenum.

Thanks; I was grasping at straws for proper terminology.

1. Are there fans to replace the plenum's ventilation function (as in the southbound Lehigh Tunnel)?

When I saw that the ceiling had been removed, I immediately began looking for those large, jet engine-looking fans (as in SB Lehigh) but did not see any.

Then again, having been spending quite a lot of time in Pittsburgh over the last month, I've been wondering about the ventilation setup at the "de-ceilinged"  Fort Pitt and Squirrel Hill Tunnels, too. I didn't see any of those large fans in the Pittsburgh tunnels either. Are the existing portal mounted fans being used to pull air out of the plenum-less tunnels? Or because of vehicles cleaner exhaust and the larger cross section of the revised tunnel, is traffic movement alone enough to keep the tunnel air circulating?

For what it's worth: The EB Tuscarora Mountain Tunnel's ventilation grilles are currently boarded up with plywood.

2. Could you tell if the overhead wires visible in your photograph are similar radio repeaters or did they just look like utility wires?

They looked like utility wires to me, but of course, I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell the difference.

[Bitmapped]

Also in this general area, another pinch point is a fairly new (at least it still seems fairly new) 4-lane overpass over US-30 - where they dualized US-30 between Bedford and Everett ( https://goo.gl/maps/tk19ddK8k6LnoQAX6 ) - Not being an engineer, I don't know if that structure can be modified for a 6 lane Turnpike - if it can't, I don't see it getting replaced with an even newer structure for many years.  (Also, if you look at the PTC websites future projects, the one around Everett stops just east of here, shortly after the Turnpike crosses the Juniata).

I don't know why they wouldn't be able to extend the abutments and center pier, drop in a couple new beams and tie in the deck. If push came to shove, the bridge appears to have full-width shoulders they could restripe for a third lane.

[seicer]

Even the modern underpasses could be restriped to accomodate six lanes with no problem. You may not have full 12' shoulders but it'll be fine. The PTC does this further east around Philly.

[SignBridge]

I believe Interstate highways are required to have continuous shoulders. In any case it would be unsafe not to have them.

[J N Winkler]

I believe Interstate highways are required to have continuous shoulders. In any case it would be unsafe not to have them.

I think the continuous-shoulder requirement applies to the whole system except tunnels.  Bridges over a certain length used to be excepted too, but this is no longer true.

[jeffandnicole]

Some people are too quick to say, hey, there's 1 or 2 exceptions that exist already, so let's just add another 40 exceptions to the list.

[Alps]

I believe Interstate highways are required to have continuous shoulders. In any case it would be unsafe not to have them.

I think the continuous-shoulder requirement applies to the whole system except tunnels.  Bridges over a certain length used to be excepted too, but this is no longer true.

I thought they still are excepted, but more agencies aren't taking advantage.

[Bitmapped]

I believe Interstate highways are required to have continuous shoulders. In any case it would be unsafe not to have them.

I think the continuous-shoulder requirement applies to the whole system except tunnels.  Bridges over a certain length used to be excepted too, but this is no longer true.

I thought they still are excepted, but more agencies aren't taking advantage.

Even if full-width shoulders are technically required now, I suspect an agency could get a design exception based on the cost of reconstructing the bridge. There are plenty of bridges along the I-376 extension that lack full shoulders and haven't been addressed even though PennDOT was required to make other upgrades as part of Interstate designation. In recent years, PennDOT also converted shoulders to travel lanes on I-376's bridge at Carnegie, and when the I-70/US 19 interchange at Washington, PA was converted from a cloverleaf to a DDI, they changed the existing weave lane to a through lane without having full shoulders.

[J N Winkler]

I thought they still are excepted, but more agencies aren't taking advantage.

This inspired me to do a little checking.

AIUI, current standards do require provision of shoulders on bridges, but if they are 200 ft or longer, shoulder width on both sides can be reduced to 4 ft.  Older bridges that do not meet this standard are grandfathered in as long as shoulders are at least 3.5 ft wide with 12 ft lanes.  Tunnels are similar with the added requirement that a raised pedestrian walkway be provided for emergency evacuation that is at least 4 ft wide.

I'm not sure how common it was to build bridges completely without shoulders during the period of peak Interstate construction.  I'm aware of a few bridges (such as I-80 over the Meander Creek Reservoir in Mahoning County, Ohio) that didn't have any shoulders until they were replaced after 2000, at which point the full cross-section width was carried over even though they were well over the 200 ft length at which relaxed standards apply.  Near to me, the I-235 Arkansas River bridges, built circa 1961 as chargeable Interstate to standards then prevailing (no grandfathering of obsolescent features), had shoulders of about 2 ft on both sides until they were completely replaced after 2010, at which point the overground cross-section of 4 ft left shoulder, two 12 ft lanes, and 10 ft right shoulder was carried over onto the deck.

[seicer]

I was doing some checking on the bridges that were built to contemporary four-lane standards near Bedford. While the crossings over water or roadways can be widened with generally no issue, the underpasses may be an issue. They have four 12' lanes, one 12' shoulder, and a 4' shoulder. Fitting three 12' lanes underneath them gives only 1.5' shoulders. You could, I guess, have three 11' lanes with 3.5' shoulders but that's below the acceptable standards.

[Alps]

I thought they still are excepted, but more agencies aren't taking advantage.

This inspired me to do a little checking.

AIUI, current standards do require provision of shoulders on bridges, but if they are 200 ft or longer, shoulder width on both sides can be reduced to 4 ft.  Older bridges that do not meet this standard are grandfathered in as long as shoulders are at least 3.5 ft wide with 12 ft lanes.  Tunnels are similar with the added requirement that a raised pedestrian walkway be provided for emergency evacuation that is at least 4 ft wide.

I'm not sure how common it was to build bridges completely without shoulders during the period of peak Interstate construction.  I'm aware of a few bridges (such as I-80 over the Meander Creek Reservoir in Mahoning County, Ohio) that didn't have any shoulders until they were replaced after 2000, at which point the full cross-section width was carried over even though they were well over the 200 ft length at which relaxed standards apply.  Near to me, the I-235 Arkansas River bridges, built circa 1961 as chargeable Interstate to standards then prevailing (no grandfathering of obsolescent features), had shoulders of about 2 ft on both sides until they were completely replaced after 2010, at which point the overground cross-section of 4 ft left shoulder, two 12 ft lanes, and 10 ft right shoulder was carried over onto the deck.

Yes, the 4' width is what I was referring to. Those aren't shoulders, those are safety margins.

[Crown Victoria]

A Rendell era idea resurfaces:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/08/26/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-Reason-Foundation-privatization-PennDOT-Gov-Tom-Wolf/stories/202008250138

[MASTERNC]

One unclear effect of AET has been whether E-ZPass slip ramps and express lanes are now open to all customers.  This page seems to indicate that there are no longer "E-ZPass Only" exits or lanes.

https://www.paturnpike.com/rampup/on_our_roadway.aspx

[storm2k]

A Rendell era idea resurfaces:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/08/26/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-Reason-Foundation-privatization-PennDOT-Gov-Tom-Wolf/stories/202008250138

Eh, it's the Reason Foundation. They're an arch-fiscal conservative think tank that thinks the government should not have a hand in anything. They released one about the NJTA today as well.

[jeffandnicole]

A Rendell era idea resurfaces:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/08/26/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-Reason-Foundation-privatization-PennDOT-Gov-Tom-Wolf/stories/202008250138

Eh, it's the Reason Foundation. They're an arch-fiscal conservative think tank that thinks the government should not have a hand in anything. They released one about the NJTA today as well.

The actual report referenced the NJ Turnpike, rather than the NJ Turnpike Authority. It was a bit off in saying most of the Turnpike is I-95. So consider this as to how accurate the report was, or the knowledge the author has about various toll rosd systems in the country.

And the "study" looked at 9 toll agencies in total, using Covid-19 as a reason for leasing the roadways. I doubt such a comprehensive study could have been done in only 5 months or so when the economy was truly affected.

It also ties in leasing the toll roads in order to help the states with their unfunded pension liabilities. Yet it also criticized the PANYNJ for spending money on a project not in their jurisdiction.

[Bitmapped]

A Rendell era idea resurfaces:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/08/26/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-Reason-Foundation-privatization-PennDOT-Gov-Tom-Wolf/stories/202008250138

Eh, it's the Reason Foundation. They're an arch-fiscal conservative think tank that thinks the government should not have a hand in anything. They released one about the NJTA today as well.

The actual report referenced the NJ Turnpike, rather than the NJ Turnpike Authority. It was a bit off in saying most of the Turnpike is I-95. So consider this as to how accurate the report was, or the knowledge the author has about various toll rosd systems in the country.

It also refers to PTC as the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority. It's a slipshod piece of work designed basically as clickbait.

[Crown Victoria]

A Rendell era idea resurfaces:

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/08/26/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-Reason-Foundation-privatization-PennDOT-Gov-Tom-Wolf/stories/202008250138

Eh, it's the Reason Foundation. They're an arch-fiscal conservative think tank that thinks the government should not have a hand in anything. They released one about the NJTA today as well.

The actual report referenced the NJ Turnpike, rather than the NJ Turnpike Authority. It was a bit off in saying most of the Turnpike is I-95. So consider this as to how accurate the report was, or the knowledge the author has about various toll rosd systems in the country.

It also refers to PTC as the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority. It's a slipshod piece of work designed basically as clickbait.

If they can't even get the names correct, then what else did they get wrong? Still though, it's a topic worthy of discussion, even if I personally think that leasing the Turnpike will remain an idea.

[Rothman]

An idiotic idea.  Fun how much crossposting is happening with this Reason garbage.

[Bitmapped]

I was on the Mon-Fayette Expressway yesterday. PTC hasn't changed the signage to remove references to cash, but they have have removed the overhead signage at mainline and ramp toll plazas that designated which lane took which type of payment. The payment confirmation signals in each toll lane were gone, and I'm not 100% certain but I think the gates and automated payment machines were also removed.

At the Fairchance mainline plaza, they still have the center (of three) lanes in each direction blocked, with a VMS parked in it announcing pay-by-plate and to keep moving. I was only on the WV-to-Uniontown segment, so I didn't get a chance to see what they did at the other plazas that have high speed lanes with cash payment was handled in a side plaza.

[MASTERNC]

I was on the Mon-Fayette Expressway yesterday. PTC hasn't changed the signage to remove references to cash, but they have have removed the overhead signage about each lane at mainline and ramp toll plazas that designated which lane took which type of payment. The payment confirmation signals in each toll lane were gone, and I'm not 100% certain but I think the gates and automated payment machines were also removed.

At the Fairchance mainline plaza, they still have the center (of three) lanes in each direction blocked, with a VMS parked in it announcing pay-by-plate and to keep moving. I was only on the WV-to-Uniontown segment, so I didn't get a chance to see what they did at the other plazas that have high speed lanes with cash payment was handled in a side plaza.

All the mainline Turnpike plazas have the same thing with VMS in one toll lane.  The plazas that had the non-digital signage now almost all read E-ZPass Only over every lane.

[cpzilliacus]

CDL Life:  Trucking company says that $27,000 in owed tolls was a 'misunderstanding' not a 'ripoff'

A Pennsylvania trucking company is under fire for $27,000 worth of unpaid tolls, officials say.

Forrsmith Logistics Services in Yeadon owned by 41-year-old Darnell Smith has been accused of 'ripping off' the Pennsylvania Turnpike between May 2012 and July of this year, reported CBS Philly.

According to prosecutors, trucks registered to Forrsmith Logistics Services were caught on camera rolling through the Valley Forge Interchange on the PA Turnpike without an E-Z Pass hundreds of times in the last eight years — $27,000 worth of trips.

[tylert120]

I posted this in traffic control, but notice this newer BGS at the Monroeville exit shows an exit speed that differs from the posted exit speed just after the BGS.

I wonder why the turnpike decided to go with a ground mounted BGS instead of a new overhead sign? The sign for "Ohio and West"  was not replaced.

[MASTERNC]

I posted this in traffic control, but notice this newer BGS at the Monroeville exit shows an exit speed that differs from the posted exit speed just after the BGS.

I wonder why the turnpike decided to go with a ground mounted BGS instead of a new overhead sign? The sign for "Ohio and West"  was not replaced.

Think they forgot to change the other signage.  The PTC seems to be lowering ramp speeds where there are sharp curves.  Case in point, they lowered the speed on the EB ramp to Harrisburg West (I-83) to 15 MPH and put flashing beacons inside the same BGS you posted.

Of course, this brings up a personal gripe that the PTC can't or won't design ramps with an advisory speed over 30 MPH (except for the Mid-County flyover).  The NYS Thruway posts a lot of their off-ramps at 45 MPH.

[tylert120]

Check out the mileage numerals on these new attraction signs at the Donegal interchange on the PA Turnpike. Yikes.

https://imgur.com/a/cikE26n

I also posted this in traffic control (good, bad, ugly thread).

[roadman65]

Check out the mileage numerals on these new attraction signs at the Donegal interchange on the PA Turnpike. Yikes.

https://imgur.com/a/cikE26n

I also posted this in traffic control (good, bad, ugly thread).


Looks like a child in kindergarden drew them.