Francis Scott Key Bridge (I-695) complete collapse after large ship hits it

[Beltway]

How about a temporary ferry across the gap? Wouldn't that be feasible to handle cross river traffic and commerce?

Dear heavens, no.  There are no docks for a ferry.  There are no readily available ferry ships that can handle the mixed passenger/freight traffic.  The volume on I-695 was overwhelming for a ferry.  Then, you have the harbor traffic to deal with.

Here is what a high capacity ferry with large boats can handle.

The Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT) for the Jamestown-Scotland Ferry is approximately 2,500 vehicles per day, based on information from the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT). It connects VA-31 on both sides of the James River.

AADT on the Key Bridge was about 31,000.

[Max Rockatansky]

Are we on some grand tour of overnight replies to everyone who made a comment during late March?

[WillWeaverRVA]

Hm, this thread really took off all of a sudden. I wonder...oh dear lord no

The sentiment has been shared by others.

I would have posted the same thing if she hadn't done it first. 

[PColumbus73]

Hm, this thread really took off all of a sudden. I wonder...oh dear lord no

The sentiment has been shared by others.

I would have posted the same thing if she hadn't done it first. 

The Key Bridge has more structural integrity than this thread

[Beltway]

Here's an extract from the relevant nautical chart:

The shipping channel has a nominal width of 1100 feet and, per the legend (not included in this extract), a nominal depth of 50 feet.  The chart does not otherwise specify the cross-section of the channel at the bridge.
The channel ran essentially from one inside face of one main pier to the inside face of the other.  Increasing main span length would buy more margin for error by allowing the new piers and their defenses to be positioned well outside the area used for navigation.  At Tampa Bay, the piers for the Sunshine Skyway are positioned on artificial islands that just border the channel (which is only 43 feet deep) on their inside edges.

JN Winkler has excellent analysis of the underwater topography in the outer harbor, several posts before this one as well.

That is excerpt from NOAA Chart 12281 Baltimore Harbor and the chart can be found online.

NOAA Chart 11412 Tampa Bay and St. Joseph Sound includes the Skyway area. That can be found online.

MDTA claims to be using a 100 year design horizon.

Channels are going to get deeper and wider over time.

Hampton Roads has just increased theirs to 55 feet deep from the former 50 feet.

Quote:
The Hampton Roads channel deepening plan aims to dredge the shipping channels in the Port of Virginia to a depth of 55 feet, widen them to 1,400 feet in certain areas, and create deeper ocean approaches, essentially making it one of the deepest and widest shipping channels on the East Coast of the United States by late 2024; this project also includes deepening the Chesapeake Bay's Thimble Shoal Channel to 56 feet and the Atlantic Ocean Channel to 59 feet.
. . . .

There have been discussions going back at least 20 years about making the Hampton Roads channels as deep as 68 feet and as wide as 1,800 feet. That could also include maritime interests paying for the replacement of the original Thimble Shoal Channel Tunnel with a deeper tunnel if that is needed. This is only a future plan at this time with no schedule.

The important thing to keep in mind is that a 1,400 foot span (or 1,600 as some assert) is going constrain a future plan of that type and could result in 50+ foot channel depths right up to the main piers themselves.

I doubt that the port of Baltimore is going to want to be left behind when other ports are enlarging their channels.  This isn't thousands of miles away -- it is the other end of Chesapeake Bay.

This bridge scheme is not a 100 year solution. Probably not even 20 years.

[Max Rockatansky]

Now we are digging up shit to quote from May 2024?

Are you trying to get this thread locked or is this just an unhealthy fixation? 

[Beltway]

Now we are digging up shit to quote from May 2024?
Are you trying to get this thread locked or is this just an unhealthy fixation? 

I wanted to take the time to read thru the entire thread.

I just finished that. Nothing else stood out.

[NE2]

Why doesn't I-495, the widest beltway, simply eat the others?

[Takumi]

Why doesn't I-495, the widest beltway, simply eat the others?

Perhaps they're saving that for midterms.

[Rothman]

Now we are digging up shit to quote from May 2024?

Are you trying to get this thread locked or is this just an unhealthy fixation? 

See my previous statement about someone having more time on their hands than they care to admit...

[kalvado]

Now we are digging up shit to quote from May 2024?

Are you trying to get this thread locked or is this just an unhealthy fixation? 

I am not sure what is going on in this thread (it looks like a cybertruck on fire) - but bringing up factual information from the earlier post should be totally fine, and should be pretty simple if there are keywords like "nautical chart" to use.
Chart itself is probably dated pre-2010, but as long as it is up to date...

[Beltway]

Now we are digging up shit to quote from May 2024?
Are you trying to get this thread locked or is this just an unhealthy fixation? 

I am not sure what is going on in this thread (it looks like a cybertruck on fire) - but bringing up factual information from the earlier post should be totally fine, and should be pretty simple if there are keywords like "nautical chart" to use.
Chart itself is probably dated pre-2010, but as long as it is up to date...

I have the entire NOAA Chart 12281 Baltimore Harbor in PDF. Mine has a last update date of 2024.

[Strider]

 

[kphoger]

The show is pretty much over by now.

[Plutonic Panda]

The show is pretty much over by now.

Has the investigation been concluded?

[Max Rockatansky]

The show is pretty much over by now.

Has the investigation been concluded?

I'm still trying to find a sample of hard boiled detective noir music to give this thread proper ambiance. 

[jeffandnicole]

The show is pretty much over by now.

But I'm still stopping by the snack bar to get my free popcorn refill before I leave.

[Beltway]

What was MDTA thinking when they created this image and posted it on their website??

An almost total lack of the "protections" you hear bandied about, for the main piers. And Maryland is loaded with pleasure boaters (like my parents) who can read a nautical chart and know how deep the waters are there.


This one (I-664 MMMBT) never will block a shipping channel, and will be good to go in 2090 and maybe beyond.
The original HRBT is 68 years old and in no danger of ever becoming nautically obsolete.


This one spans the entire water body, with 4,619 foot long main span, no piers in the waters.
Yavuz Sultan Selim Bridge (Third Bosphorus Bridge), hybrid cable-stayed suspension bridge, 210 feet of vertical navigational clearance.

[NE2]

Clown emoji

[Max Rockatansky]

How dare the MDTA not give full effort into producing high end concept images.

[GaryV]

Somebody forgot to tell their AI image creator, "With protective islands around the pylons."

[Plutonic Panda]

I can't figure out how to directly link images anymore from Flickr for some reason. I used to be able to select things like the size and what format but now it's just giving me a generic link which when I try and enter a photo nothing shows up so I'll just provide the hyperlink here:

https://flic.kr/p/2qYLHpf

PS, if anyone could give me some tips on how to upload photos to Flickr and then format it so the photo post directly on my post that would be helpful.

But it's just a photo I took from one of the renderings and inserted it into Grok and said put protective islands around the pylons and that's the photo it gave me.

[Beltway]

I can't figure out how to directly link images anymore from Flickr for some reason. I used to be able to select things like the size and what format but now it's just giving me a generic link which when I try and enter a photo nothing shows up so I'll just provide the hyperlink here:
https://flic.kr/p/2qYLHpf
PS, if anyone could give me some tips on how to upload photos to Flickr and then format it so the photo post directly on my post that would be helpful.
But it's just a photo I took from one of the renderings and inserted it into Grok and said put protective islands around the pylons and that's the photo it gave me.

I once asked Grok to provide a rendering of a Long Island Sound bridge between Rye and Oyster Bay NY.

The gave me a bridge less than a mile long with a funny looking arch over a small river.

How dare the MDTA not give full effort into producing high end concept images.

A blunder on their part given the context of all this.

[NE2]

How's this for a bridge protected by dolphins?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/420031102731086540/

[PColumbus73]

How dare they post a conceptual image of the bridge design instead of full construction plans.