There are 3 things that New Jerseyians complain about: The current Governor, Taxes, and Left Lane Richards. Guaranteed, any news stories - even opinion articles - that mention motorists that fail to keep right except when passing is sure to get the comments rolling...
http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2013/07/theres_money_to_be_made_from_l.html#incart_m-rpt-1
(Oh yeah - we complain about beach tag fees as well...)
Maybe to help curb the problem, NJDOT should start placing black-on-white signs that state "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY" and maybe "VIOLATIONS SUBJECT TO FINES" under it on major highways / freeways. The problem is that PA, NY, or any other out of state drivers don't know that rule in NJ. And without any indication that hogging the left lane is a no-no, it will probably stay that way.
Here's a concept of a sign I designed that may help alleviate this problem...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag88%2FZeffyboy%2FSigns%2FNJKeepRightSign_zpsca4ab255.png&hash=d318d0aa5234e3fc1dd4000e388eee0b4b1f97d2)
NJ already heavily utilizes the "Keep Right Except to Pass" signage. For the most part, they will be found after every interchange on the left side of the roadway. There aren't as many signs on the turnpike, but they also use the new full-color VMS boards to display "State Law - Keep Right Except To Pass".
Some of the signs are missing and haven't been replaced, but this isn't a problem that's cropped up recently either. I'm fully convinced people just don't know their right from their left.
Hey now. I resent this thread title. There are plenty of us named Richard who are religious about not cruising in the left lane if it can possibly be avoided.
As to signs, I don't know if it's still there (I have not been that way since New Year's weekend 2011), but there used to be a big sign on the westbound Pennsylvania Turnpike just west of Breezewood that said "KEEP RIGHT–PASS LEFT–IT'S THE LAW." As a general matter I kind of like that wording better than "violators subject to fines" because I don't especially like the way these days it seems like all levels of government are constantly threatening people–"do what we say or else." I resent that kind of attitude from the government. HOWEVER, I think most motorists tend to ignore signs of the sort I just described near Breezewood because they view those laws as toothless and as never being enforced (which pretty much matches my experience, as I've never seen anyone stopped for that sort of thing). I don't know whether people would take the same jaundiced view of "violators subject to fines." I kind of suspect they would unless it became known that it wasn't an idle threat.
how is it not common sense to move the fuck over?
I feel like these people also shit themselves because they can't be arsed to go to the bathroom before going to the bathroom.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 01:07:19 PM
how is it not common sense to move the fuck over?
I feel like these people also shit themselves because they can't be arsed to go to the bathroom before going to the bathroom.
I agree, and I tend to say the same thing about the "Move Over" laws that apply when you encounter an emergency vehicle or the like. Some people seem absolutely hung up on their "right" to drive in the left lane "if I'm going the speed limit," though. Then you have the people who get in the left lane because they want to use a left-side exit, never mind that the exit is another seven miles down the road.
The only time I make a general exception and use the left lane for cruising in a "drive-on-the-right" country is when the right lane is in atrocious condition and the left lane is not. Some of Quebec's autoroutes have been good examples of this the last several times I've been up that way. I'd rather preserve my alignment and suspension and I'll drive in the left lane there, but I'll move over whenever I see someone coming up behind going faster than I am. That seems like common sense too.
Going back to New Jersey, I always thought the "left lane for passing only" law was pretty common knowledge, even among out-of-staters. They might ignore that law, just as almost everyone ignores the speed limits, but they know of it.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 01:07:19 PM
how is it not common sense to move the fuck over?
Because these twits, the left lane hogs, feel entitled to use whatever fucking lane they see fit. I see it all the time here in Illinois. The bozos never seem to get the point to move over out of the left lane even though there is a law on the books for it.
I've only heard of people being pulled over for being left lane hogs in one state - Michigan.
I've seen a few people pulled over for failing to get to the right lane (but definitely not enough of them). Then again, if the fully marked cop car is behind them, and they are not moving over, or worse, slowing down and not moving over, I hope that the cop gives those people tickets and not warnings.
A state trooper that I know will tell me that he'll be speeding down the road with lights on and sirens blaring, come upon PA tagged car, and they STILL won't move over sometimes!
Couple of questions... is NJ's law unique somehow? I thought keep right except to pass was a fairly universal law in the US. Given my experience in other states, it also seems like a law which gets ignored frequently as well.
Also, I grew up in Ocean County... and I can't say I've ever heard the term "Left Lane Richard" before today. Is that a regional thing (like Sprinkles vs Jimmies or Bennies vs umm... forgot the south Jersey term for that again)?
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 01:02:35 PM
Hey now. I resent this thread title. There are plenty of us named Richard who are religious about not cruising in the left lane if it can possibly be avoided.
Maybe the thread name should be John Oliver Nestor, M.D.?
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 01:02:35 PM
As to signs, I don't know if it's still there (I have not been that way since New Year's weekend 2011), but there used to be a big sign on the westbound Pennsylvania Turnpike just west of Breezewood that said "KEEP RIGHT–PASS LEFT–IT'S THE LAW." As a general matter I kind of like that wording better than "violators subject to fines" because I don't especially like the way these days it seems like all levels of government are constantly threatening people–"do what we say or else." I resent that kind of attitude from the government. HOWEVER, I think most motorists tend to ignore signs of the sort I just described near Breezewood because they view those laws as toothless and as never being enforced (which pretty much matches my experience, as I've never seen anyone stopped for that sort of thing). I don't know whether people would take the same jaundiced view of "violators subject to fines." I kind of suspect they would unless it became known that it wasn't an idle threat.
The I-95 part of the Connecticut Turnpike between New Haven and Niantic (most of it is two lanes each way) has signs that read
NO PASSING ON THE RIGHT, though I am not sure drivers pay much attention to them. There was still plenty of Nestoring going on when I drove it in June.
Quote from: Compulov on July 31, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
....
Also, I grew up in Ocean County... and I can't say I've ever heard the term "Left Lane Richard" before today. Is that a regional thing (like Sprinkles vs Jimmies or Bennies vs umm... forgot the south Jersey term for that again)?
He's referring to "Richard" in the sense of there being a nickname some people use for "Richard" that refers to a part of the male anatomy. My father uses that nickname, but then he was born in the 1940s when it was no big deal. I don't use it. He says, "That's because your generation has sick minds." He's right!
Dicks. They mean "dicks".
Quote from: Compulov on July 31, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
Couple of questions... is NJ's law unique somehow? I thought keep right except to pass was a fairly universal law in the US. Given my experience in other states, it also seems like a law which gets ignored frequently as well.
Also, I grew up in Ocean County... and I can't say I've ever heard the term "Left Lane Richard" before today. Is that a regional thing (like Sprinkles vs Jimmies or Bennies vs umm... forgot the south Jersey term for that again)?
They are referring to left lane dicks in a nice way. They are usually easy to spot with their New York license plates *ducks*
New Jersey's "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS" signing is very explicit . Virginia uses a vague sign like "Slower Traffic Keep Right" which doesn't define what the left lane usage should be. About a month ago when the state proposed to raise the penalties for failure to keep right, it made national news.
Driving back from NC last January, I heard a news piece on the local radio on how a trooper cited someone on the Turnpike for failure to keep right even though they doing the speed limit. It was apparently a big deal to them. I couldn't find any mention of the story on the news around here.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2013, 03:44:01 PM
The I-95 part of the Connecticut Turnpike between New Haven and Niantic (most of it is two lanes each way) has signs that read NO PASSING ON THE RIGHT, though I am not sure drivers pay much attention to them. There was still plenty of Nestoring going on when I drove it in June.
I learned to drive on the Garden State Parkway. Basically, you look way down the road, figure out where the gaps are and whether they're opening or closing, and plan your next lane changes accordingly. There's no hope to staying in one lane on roads like the Parkway, I-95 in CT, pretty much any road in the greater BaltoBoston corridor. I'd also note that that corridor has the most lax speed enforcement of any - 75-80 mph is the norm.
Kentucky's black-on-white signs say "Keep Right Except To Pass."
And I knew a guy way back when whose nickname was "Richard Cranium." :-D
Quote from: Steve on August 01, 2013, 12:06:36 AM
I'd also note that that corridor has the most lax speed enforcement of any - 75-80 mph is the norm.
I feel like the rural west beats it. there are places that you can get away with doing 100 for miles on end simply because there ain't nobody there doing any enforcing.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2013, 12:47:21 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 01, 2013, 12:06:36 AM
I'd also note that that corridor has the most lax speed enforcement of any - 75-80 mph is the norm.
I feel like the rural west beats it. there are places that you can get away with doing 100 for miles on end simply because there ain't nobody there doing any enforcing.
That's not lax enforcement, that's lack of enforcement.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 01:07:19 PM
how is it not common sense to move the fuck over?
I encountered someone doing 45-50 in the left lane on I-95 yesterday (speed limit: 55, typical average speed: 70). When I passed him I noticed he was concentrating on some form of electronic device rather than the road. So that's one reason why not...
Even if an electronic device isn't involved, though, some people are just inattentive when cruising and become oblivious to the fact that they're getting in anyone's way.
And some people genuinely just don't give a shit how their behavior impacts other drivers.
Some people just don't care, too. Earlier today I had the "pleasure" of trying to pass an idiot doing 20 mph under the speed limit on NY 364. Later, I passed someone going about 30 under on the Thruway. Oh, and did I mention that the latter was at night and the vehicle in question had no tail lights?
I know I shouldn't do this, but sometimes when somebody is hogging the left lane going under the speed limit I will pass them on the left, get in front of them, and slow waaaaaay down, causing them to get to the right, then I speed up.
Quote from: bugo on August 05, 2013, 09:49:56 AM
I know I shouldn't do this, but sometimes when somebody is hogging the left lane going under the speed limit I will pass them on the left, get in front of them, and slow waaaaaay down, causing them to get to the right, then I speed up.
Do you perchance mean you pass them on the right? Or do you drive on the shoulder?
Quote from: Compulov on July 31, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
Couple of questions... is NJ's law unique somehow? I thought keep right except to pass was a fairly universal law in the US. Given my experience in other states, it also seems like a law which gets ignored frequently as well.
Also, I grew up in Ocean County... and I can't say I've ever heard the term "Left Lane Richard" before today. Is that a regional thing (like Sprinkles vs Jimmies or Bennies vs umm... forgot the south Jersey term for that again)?
Massachusetts law implies KRETP, but also considers it legal for drivers to pass on the right on Interstates and other divided highways where all travel lanes are going in the same direction.
Quote from: roadman on August 05, 2013, 06:11:27 PM
Massachusetts law implies KRETP, but also considers it legal for drivers to pass on the right on Interstates and other divided highways where all travel lanes are going in the same direction.
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when
are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Some states (IMO all states should) allow it when passing in the opposing lane.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
I believe some states may still have prima facie speed limits on some roads.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2013, 09:24:42 PMprima facie
I hate to admit it, but I still don't understand what this term means beyond "is the cop having a good day or a bad one?"
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2013, 09:24:42 PMprima facie
I hate to admit it, but I still don't understand what this term means beyond "is the cop having a good day or a bad one?"
It basically means that if you're ticketed for exceeding it, you may be able to beat the ticket but you have the burden of proving your speed was reasonable and safe. The cost of proving it may not be worth it, especially if an expert witness is needed.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2013, 10:10:31 PMproving your speed was reasonable and safe.
defendant: [long and quite valid argument]
defendant's attorney: [longer argument, just as valid]
expert witness: [argument of necessary length, so valid that court audience is reduced to tears]
judge: "yeah, that's great, get the fuck out of my court"
so basically it shifts from "is the cop having a good day or a bad day" to "is the judge having a good day or a bad day".
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2013, 10:10:31 PMproving your speed was reasonable and safe.
defendant: [long and quite valid argument]
defendant's attorney: [longer argument, just as valid]
expert witness: [argument of necessary length, so valid that court audience is reduced to tears]
judge: "yeah, that's great, get the fuck out of my court"
so basically it shifts from "is the cop having a good day or a bad day" to "is the judge having a good day or a bad day".
Or if the cop shows up at all. If you go to court and the cop is a no show... case dismisssed,, court costs is what you have to pay. Another reason to not mouth off to cops, if you piss them off they will be sure to attend. With cities and counties going bankrupt the police are being instructed to be sure to show up for court... money is needed
Quote from: Steve on August 05, 2013, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Some states (IMO all states should) allow it when passing in the opposing lane.
I agree. All states should allow this and see it as much safer than passing the other vehicle at 5 mph faster than them. It just seems like common sense to me to do your overtaking manuever and get back on the right side of the road as quickly as possible. I personally don't want to spend a second longer in the opposing lane than I have to.
As for passing on the right on a multilane carriageway, I don't hesitate for a second to do it. Whether it be in my home state of NJ or any other state.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Never, and that's why when I'm in an area (i.e. Princeton) that I know has strict enforcement of traffic laws , I will rarely exceed the speed limit except maybe 1 MPH or two, because I don't wanna be the guy that gets a ticket.
Also, this brings me to another point: If you are coming down a slope and you are over the posted speed limit by a good amount (in this case, 10 MPH), and there is a police car at the bottom of the slope, does he have the jurisdiction (and reason) to pull you over? I know that where I live, there is a lot of hills that result in that very situation happening, and since you have to gas it to make it over the hill in the first place, when you come down the hill unless you are braking every second you can easily be over the speed limit.
I think it is the driver's responsibility to be going at his intended speed even when heading down a hill.
Quote from: signalman on August 06, 2013, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 05, 2013, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Some states (IMO all states should) allow it when passing in the opposing lane.
I agree. All states should allow this and see it as much safer than passing the other vehicle at 5 mph faster than them. It just seems like common sense to me to do your overtaking manuever and get back on the right side of the road as quickly as possible. I personally don't want to spend a second longer in the opposing lane than I have to.
As for passing on the right on a multilane carriageway, I don't hesitate for a second to do it. Whether it be in my home state of NJ or any other state.
Back in 00 I got pulled over in Harley County, Texas on US 54 going 78 mph on the other side of the road while passing a truck. First the truck was doing 65 mph, so it was clear to pass him, then the SOB put his foot down on the hammer as soon as I started to pass. I do not know if he did it on purpose because I am sure he saw the cop, and thought he would have a little fun.
Nonetheless, at the time the maximum in Texas was 70 mph (day) on all highways, and clocked me at 78 in a 70 zone. I told him the truth when he had asked me what I was doing, and let me off with a written warning. What you saying maybe true, but not in Hartley County, TX.
Quote from: Zeffy on August 06, 2013, 06:29:21 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 05, 2013, 08:14:11 PM
NJ law permits passing on the right, but only if you don't have to exceed the posted speed limit to do so.
this of course implies the logical question: when are you allowed to exceed the posted speed limit?
Never, and that's why when I'm in an area (i.e. Princeton) that I know has strict enforcement of traffic laws , I will rarely exceed the speed limit except maybe 1 MPH or two, because I don't wanna be the guy that gets a ticket.
Also, this brings me to another point: If you are coming down a slope and you are over the posted speed limit by a good amount (in this case, 10 MPH), and there is a police car at the bottom of the slope, does he have the jurisdiction (and reason) to pull you over? I know that where I live, there is a lot of hills that result in that very situation happening, and since you have to gas it to make it over the hill in the first place, when you come down the hill unless you are braking every second you can easily be over the speed limit.
Why can you manage to maintain 10 mph over the limit, but can't maintain the limit itself?
In an automatic, not sure. In a stick, it depends on the gearing ratios. In my car, I can do 40 or 55 down a hill without using the brakes... anything in between, not so much.
I never had any trouble maintaining, within 2-3mph, a particular speed, on any incline, in a stick shift car.
I keep seeing this thread title and imagining there is some NJ character I'm not familiar with (real or otherwise) named, for example, Tom "Left Lane" Richards.
Stop being such a cat and write what you mean.
Quote from: Zeffy on August 06, 2013, 06:29:21 PM
Also, this brings me to another point: If you are coming down a slope and you are over the posted speed limit by a good amount (in this case, 10 MPH), and there is a police car at the bottom of the slope, does he have the jurisdiction (and reason) to pull you over? I know that where I live, there is a lot of hills that result in that very situation happening, and since you have to gas it to make it over the hill in the first place, when you come down the hill unless you are braking every second you can easily be over the speed limit.
I was pulled over for this exact thing on NY30 in the Adirondacks about a month ago. 67mph.
It was actually the strangest encounter I had with a police officer in some time...he actually took me back to his car and questioned me there, then asked the passenger in my car the same questions...I wonder if they had a lead and were looking for somebody else. Regardless, after about five minutes of this, he told me to slow down and let me go with a verbal warning.
Second time in a row I'd gotten out of a ticket, too...pulled over a year previously, doing 70 on NY37...yet, the cop didn't even question that. Having a CO in the family has it's benefits. :)
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/08/right_on_left-lane_laggards_could_see_fines_double.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Fines double for Left Lane Dicks (I didn't use that in the thread title because, well, it didn't sound appropriate there. This is a family forum, right?). It'll be nice if they display this on the VMSs throughout the state...although like most signs, they'll be ignored anyway.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 07, 2013, 09:41:15 PM
I never had any trouble maintaining, within 2-3mph, a particular speed, on any incline, in a stick shift car.
Perhaps I should rephrase... I
can do it, I just don't like running the engine above 3000 rpm for long periods of time.
Quote from: vdeane on August 08, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 07, 2013, 09:41:15 PM
I never had any trouble maintaining, within 2-3mph, a particular speed, on any incline, in a stick shift car.
Perhaps I should rephrase... I can do it, I just don't like running the engine above 3000 rpm for long periods of time.
Brakes are among the cheapest things to replace, is my philosophy on those situations. No need to rev so high to slow down.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 09, 2013, 01:08:10 AM
Brakes are among the cheapest things to replace, is my philosophy on those situations. No need to rev so high to slow down.
agreed. when I had a stick shift car, I threw it into neutral all the time, so long as I wasn't coming down an
extreme grade (say, 8% over a mile or something similar). it got me excellent gas mileage - averaging 40-44 when I think EPA estimates for an '89 Escort were 32/36 or something.
brake pads for the Escort were something like 10 bucks each, and the repair job was an afternoon jaunt with a six-pack of beer divided among two people... not a bad way to while the time.