[Topic split from The Best of Road Signs (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3528.msg236026#msg236026).]
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: WichitaRoads on July 29, 2013, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 12:11:51 PM
Looks pretty darn close to Series D. Except for the Catholic-style lowercase a.
Catholic-style?
ICTRds
By that I mean typography that looks like block print handwriting style, like this: http://www.k12reader.com/handwriting-practice-worksheets-block-style-print/ (http://www.k12reader.com/handwriting-practice-worksheets-block-style-print/). I've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
That style of handwriting was taught in the Fairfax County Public Schools, at least in the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s, as that's the style I remember learning.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: WichitaRoads on July 29, 2013, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 12:11:51 PM
Looks pretty darn close to Series D. Except for the Catholic-style lowercase a.
Catholic-style?
ICTRds
By that I mean typography that looks like block print handwriting style, like this: http://www.k12reader.com/handwriting-practice-worksheets-block-style-print/ (http://www.k12reader.com/handwriting-practice-worksheets-block-style-print/). I've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
That style of handwriting was taught in the Fairfax County Public Schools, at least in the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s, as that's the style I remember learning.
Yes but it's when those letterforms are used in
a typeface which I generally call Catholic-style type. When it's actual handwriting, I consider it to be rather ordinary.
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PMI've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
Quote from: Steve on July 30, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
The three-storey version? I've done so, but usually when trying to imitate a highway sign. There are probably a few oddballs out there who do that regularly.
Quote from: vtk on July 30, 2013, 08:26:46 PM
The three-storey version? I've done so, but usually when trying to imitate a highway sign. There are probably a few oddballs out there who do that regularly.
my boss. likely the result of his school system: he grew up in India.
I write the letter a like that. For no good reason, certainly not because I was originally taught that way.
Quote from: vtk on July 30, 2013, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: Steve on July 30, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
The three-storey version? I've done so, but usually when trying to imitate a highway sign. There are probably a few oddballs out there who do that regularly.
I knew someone who did that just for the sake of being different.
I used to write the number "4" as seen in this sentence, not with the open top most people use. I broke myself of the habit because as my handwriting got worse over the years, the triangular part of the "4" looked too much like a "9."
Going back to signs, I still rather like Georgia's modified Series D, but I can't really put my finger on why. I think it's probably just because it's different.
Quote from: Steve on July 30, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PMI've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
I have for linguistics classics, because in the phonetic alphabet there is an actual difference between two sounds represented by the different ways to write it.
http://www.nuspel.org/phonics-alphabet.html
The three-story a represents the sound as in the word "at", whereas the rounded a represents the sound like "ahhh". At least I hope that makes sense.
I used to do the two-story "a" but dropped it because it was rather awkward.
I still have a lot of weird things in my handwriting. I do my 4s like the 4 found in the German DIN road sign font (open top but left line slanted). I also write 9s unusually, starting at the base of the tail and going up, since that allows me to make a 9 with a curved tail, rather than the version most people write with a loop, then a line down. Probably the most usual letterform I use is an A with a slanted crossbar.
Example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPvrU2H0.png&hash=09003c5d8da5744e60259afd1864130ad7025da3)
do you do your 5 with a vertical stroke, then a lid?
I do my 5 starting from upper right. my 4s are slanted and closed. my 9s are identical to yours.
...the Hell happened to your post, Scott?
Caught me just as I was splitting the new topic off...sorry about that! -S.
Yes, I do the 5s in the manner that you described.
Looking at the sample I uploaded reminds me that I also leave the tittles off the lowercase i, j, etc. unless there is some reason that not having them would be ambiguous.
I also tend to get kind of swashy on uppercase D, P, R, etc.
I wonder how many of us include features of FHWA Series in our handwriting? I certainly remember when I was trying to learn to write as a kid I tried to emulate that, rather than the Palmer and D'Nealian forms given as the ideal examples.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 09:48:50 PM
do you do your 5 with a vertical stroke, then a lid?
I do my 5 starting from upper right.
I always made the 5 the way you did, much to the dismay of some teachers. Having to form a character that is one continuous movement by breaking it up into 2 parts never made since to me even as a young child.
Quote from: Big John on July 31, 2013, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 09:48:50 PM
do you do your 5 with a vertical stroke, then a lid?
I do my 5 starting from upper right.
I always made the 5 the way you did, much to the dismay of some teachers. Having to form a character that is one continuous movement by breaking it up into 2 parts never made since to me even as a young child.
This. I do my 5's like that as well, for the same reason, so when I'm in a hurry they might look like an S or a normal person's 9. Except I start my 9 at the bottom and then go around the loop counterclockwise.
I used to do my 1s with a hook and a bottom slab, but I got out of that habit when I has to learn standard technical drawing letterforms. Now they're just a single vertical stroke. My Is are also just a single vertical stroke, unless they're capitalized, though I'm not completely consistent in either case. (I tend to write in small-caps unless there's a specific need to be legible or literal.)
I write a 5 in one stroke when I write upside-down, and it looks like an S. It's the same as crossing and dotting the letters, I just run with it.
I do my 1s that way because I prefer distinguishing a 1 from an I as much as possible. I was doing just the hook at the top, but got occasional "is that a 1 or a 4" comments somehow (because apparently, some people make 4s the same way most people make 9s, they just don't connect the top all the way!). Thus, the bottom stroke.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 07:50:38 AM
I used to write the number "4" as seen in this sentence, not with the open top most people use. I broke myself of the habit because as my handwriting got worse over the years, the triangular part of the "4" looked too much like a "9."
I still do this, in spite of being taught the other way, because it's one stroke. Open 4s look unfinished to me.
anybody else cross their 7's or z's?
Me! I always cross Z and 7. I also do 9 with a straight line down, and I was forced to do a very open 4 due to that. It looks more like an open box with the right line extending below.
I used to cross my 'z's when I joined up every letter and the zeds looked like ʒ (it was how I was taught) - the loop crossed back over. My 'f's looked like descended 8s with a line through them. Looking, I was taught cursive aged 4.
When I 'relearnt' how to write, starting secondary school, I stopped joining every letter, and went to z and f. I still used cursive 'z' (with full bottom loop to distinguish from Zeta) as a variable in algebra when I'd run out of letters in a block (eg u, v, w, x, y, z, ʒ).
4s have to be open, and ones 1 typically with the bottom bar if I've given it a hat. No 7s crossed, as the 1 is either hatless, has a very small hat, or has a small hat and a bottom bar. Also the top line is always vertical, unlike several European countries (which is why they cross the 7s).
I only cross a 7 if it appears next to a T, and cross a Z if if appears next to a 2.
(Part numbers and VINs, for example.)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 01, 2013, 03:37:40 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 07:50:38 AM
I used to write the number "4" as seen in this sentence, not with the open top most people use. I broke myself of the habit because as my handwriting got worse over the years, the triangular part of the "4" looked too much like a "9."
I still do this, in spite of being taught the other way, because it's one stroke. Open 4s look unfinished to me.
I feel the same way, but I forced myself to write them the other way because mine were getting to the point where they were indistinguishable from a "9."
I've never crossed a "7," but in junior high and high school math classes I crossed the "z" when used as a variable because the teachers wanted us to do that to distinguish from a "2" (and I've never looped the bottom left corner of a "2").
Quote from: Steve on July 30, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PMI've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
I do. Although if I right it next to a number, my version can be confused as a 2.
As my handwriting is generally pitiful, many of my letters and numbers can be confusing to read.
And yes, I fully admit, my typing isn't much better! :-)
I frequently cross 7's and zeroes in alphanumeric settings, but never Z's. Guess I sort of forgot that was an option. I also typically put the hat on the 1 but not usually the base, and serifs on a capital I only when needed to distinguish it from a 1 or lowercase L. (I also apparently type a capital L even when referring to a lowercase one, for clarity.)
I still get a little thrown by European-style 1's that resemble lambdas; i.e., the hook goes all the way back down to the floor. As for my 4's, they're closed, and I start drawing them from the right end of the horizontal stroke. (I'm left-handed; I assume that makes a difference in several instances.) My 5's are single strokes, but I pause enough to get the hard angle between the top and the vertical. I draw 6's from the top down, but 9's I start from the junction of the loop and the vertical–in other words, the reverse of how I do a 6–and my 9's are fully curved.
I cross double letters such as "tt" or "ff" with a single stroke, not separate ones. I draw lowercase f from the bottom up, but I draw the musical symbol for "forte" (which resembles an f) from the top down because it has a descending tail with a little curve. I used to draw treble clefs with separate strokes for the vertical and the curvy bit, both from the top down, but now I do them in one stroke from the bottom up and back down, the same way I do &'s (but the results are distinct from each other, as treble clefs aren't slanted and have a little ball on the bottom).
the only time I dot an "i" or "j" is when referring to the imaginary unit, and write those i's and j's in a cursive font. I also happen to write "log" and "lim" in cursive, for whatever reason.
"sin", "cos", etc, however - always printed.
I cross my 7's but not my Z's. I do my 5's in one stroke. My 1's are straight bars but my I's have top and bottom bars. I don't ever remember seeing anyone do three-story a's.
Quote from: Steve on July 30, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2013, 08:15:19 PMI've always associated these letter forms with Catholicism, probably because I saw them in Catholic school materials and other Catholic publications, while the public elementary school I attended taught D'Nealian handwriting (with the little tails) and otherwise generally used more traditional typography.
You mean someone out there handwrites "a"?
I do... and yes it was imitating signs ( you know you're a roadgeek if...) same with "9". I remember starting out making a upside down "6" t get the curve right when I was in 3rd grade. I wanted it to look like the I-95 or US9 signs. If I write quickly the "a" comes out like a "z"
My handwriting is generally on the "chicken scratch" side of the ledger.
I always write in small caps and make my capitalized letters larger. My I's also have top and bottom bars to be distinguished from my 1's which are vertical strokes. I too make my 5's with one stroke, staring at the top right. My 4's are also closed and the tails on my 9's curved. My 2's are always flat on the bottom; no loop in the lower left corner. I also make flat top 3's, anyone else?
I do flat top 3s, but only when filling out forms like my tax returns.
My 2's and z's looked identical before I started putting a line through my z. Now it's just habit.
At one time, I wrote the lowercase l, the capital I, and the number 1 all with a vertical line. Now they all look different, similar to what is used in this forum.
I never write in cursive (although I connect letters to speed up the writing process, especially with the letter t) except when using the imaginary unit (i) in calculus. That's also the only time I add a "tail" to my letters, even though I was originally taught D'Nealian handwriting
I bounce back and forth on 3s. Currently I use a rounded 3, but I have done flat-top 3s as recently as a few months ago.
What about writing the letter "s"? Do you begin from the top and move down, or begin from the bottom and go up? I've always written "s" from the bottom up, but have seen many who do the opposite.
To me, it makes sense to write "s" from the bottom up, as the pen stroke moves from lower left to upper right, and the pen is now to the right of the finished letter, rather than having the pen stroke move from upper right to lower left, where you then have to lift the pen up and over the now finished letter "s", in order to continue the writing sequence.
I start at the top right, just like my 5's. Only difference is the 5 has a right angle at the top, the s is curved.
Quote from: andrewkbrown on August 01, 2013, 11:54:49 PM
To me, it makes sense to write "s" from the bottom up, as the pen stroke moves from lower left to upper right, and the pen is now to the right of the finished letter, rather than having the pen stroke move from upper right to lower left, where you then have to lift the pen up and over the now finished letter "s", in order to continue the writing sequence.
Doing it from top down, yes the pen starts and ends on the "wrong" side of the letter, but that only has the occasional side effect of some extra loops / swashes / flourishes as byproducts, which can look nice.
My handwriting is a bit odd because I taught myself how to write when I was 3 years old based on copying printed text. This means there are methods I use for forming some characters which are downright odd, and some characters I render in ways which are weird for handwriting but somewhat typical for printed fonts.
For example, my lowercase as, bs, ds, and ps are all drawn as a circle plus a vertical line, with the line tangent to the circle and extending both above and below its tangent point. I form my lowercase es starting at the point on the left where the lines meet, drawing the curve up top, going straight across the middle, and then drawing the tail. I have never met anyone else who writes es this way and everyone I've shown it to has looked at me funny.
For years I would write 1s with both bottom and top bar, driving teachers and professors mad because when I wrote them quickly they looked very similar to my 2s, which I write the exact way this font renders them. When I started working I retrained myself to write 1s as simply a vertical line in order to solve this legibility problem. But my 5s still look like Ss and my 2s still look like Zs unless I write nice and slowly.
The most amusing thing that came out of all this though, was when I was in kindergarten and they were teaching us how to write. I, being my self-centered autistic self, assumed that since I already knew how to write, everyone else in the class did as well, and that all our assignments were merely intended as practice. So when the teacher saw some of the weird ways I was forming letters and tried to correct me, I got all stubborn and defensive, thinking she was being mean and obnoxious by demanding I write the letters her way rather than just letting me do it my way. :sombrero:
Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 08:41:22 PM
My handwriting is a bit odd because I taught myself how to write when I was 3 years old based on copying printed text. This means there are methods I use for forming some characters which are downright odd, and some characters I render in ways which are weird for handwriting but somewhat typical for printed fonts.
I drew print letters (all caps) long before being taught to write. I still do my Es and some others different than taught because of this.
My handwriting has been sucky ever since 3rd grade. :) Sometimes it was so bad, my teachers asked me to redo my assignments so they could read it.
Oh yeah, and my cursive is pretty much unreadable. But in this day and age, handwriting is becoming extinct, so I'm not too worried. :bigass:
I used to get terrible grades in handwriting; as a lefty, the cursive method I was taught didn't really lend itself to legibility. I switched to printing early on, and I'd draw the ire of my teachers on one hand for not using the required cursive, and on the other for illegibility. At the time I was frustrated that they couldn't see the obvious paradox in what they were asking for, but looking back now as an adult with academic experience, they most certainly did, but had to do it anyway.
I continue to print exclusively, following my usual philosophy that whichever method gives the desired result is the correct one.
Yeah, mine is bad. I'm right-handed, but I hold the pencil funny so I get the same splotchiness that lefties do- my pinky knuckle drags on the above line on the paper.
I'm pretty sure I should have been left handed. The only things I do with my right hand are throw, swing a golf club/baseball bat, and write, which are taught behaviors. Everything that I naturally picked up I do left handed.
If I need to be legible, I print. Otherwise I write in a weird print/cursive hybrid that's pretty much only decipherable to me.
Quote from: Zeffy on August 03, 2013, 12:58:11 AM
My handwriting has been sucky ever since 3rd grade. :) Sometimes it was so bad, my teachers asked me to redo my assignments so they could read it.
Oh yeah, and my cursive is pretty much unreadable. But in this day and age, handwriting is becoming extinct, so I'm not too worried. :bigass:
When I took the bar exam I was paranoid about my answers being illegible, so I printed everything in all capital letters and used an erasable pen (this also because Virginia's bar examiners are known for disliking cross-outs because it allegedly shows you didn't think your answer through well enough). Must have worked since I passed on the first try.
Wait, wait... you WRITE on a bar exam? I thought all certification tests like that were all multiple choice. The FE/PE and CEM exams are, at least.
Mine is a living nightmare if you ever want to imitate me.
Half the letters are in cursive, half the letters are in print, but despite that, I still connect the letters. My signature s's and my regular writing s's are significantly different. You can't even realize its an s at the end of my signature.
Numbers: I cross my 7s and like the 7s on the old clocks, bend the bottom upwards. I write my 1s exactly as this board writes them. I also have a habit of writing in bubble text for whatever reason.
Quote from: jwolfer on August 01, 2013, 02:17:52 PM
I do... and yes it was imitating signs ( you know you're a roadgeek if...) same with "9".
for me, it was the serial number on paper currency which made me realize that a 9 was the same as an upside-down 6.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on August 03, 2013, 09:13:42 PM
exactly as this board writes them
Technically, you can't depend on the text of this forum displaying in a specific font on all devices. I don't know what font I'm seeing right now on my smartphone, but there's a good chance it's not quite the same as on your computer screen.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 03, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Wait, wait... you WRITE on a bar exam? I thought all certification tests like that were all multiple choice. The FE/PE and CEM exams are, at least.
The NJ PE exam only went to all-multiple choice a couple of years ago, and had written portions before then.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 03, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Wait, wait... you WRITE on a bar exam? I thought all certification tests like that were all multiple choice. The FE/PE and CEM exams are, at least.
Two-day exam. In most states, day one is the state-specific portion and consists of essay and short-answer questions (in Virginia in 1998 when I took it there were nine essays and 20 short-answers). Day two is the Multistate Bar Exam, a 200-question multiple-choice exam on six topics, that's administered by an outside group. In some states, the MBE is day one and the state part is day two–New Jersey does that, I believe, because so many people take both the New York and New Jersey exams that New Jersey will let you take the New York exam on Tuesday and Wednesday, then take the NJ-specific state portion on Thursday and count the MBE score you got on the New York exam. Not all states permit that: Virginia won't accept an MBE score unless you got it at a Virginia bar exam sitting.
I think a couple of states have three-day bar exams, but I'm not motivated to find out which ones.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 04, 2013, 08:38:13 AM
I think a couple of states have three-day bar exams, but I'm not motivated to find out which ones.
DE and CA.
source: someone who just took the NJ/PA combo in 3 days
Quote from: empirestate on August 03, 2013, 04:45:50 PMI used to get terrible grades in handwriting;
You got grades in that?
QuoteI'd draw the ire of my teachers on one hand for not using the required cursive, and on the other for illegibility.
As a righty who holds the pen nib too close and while writing clearly, it also is messy (people copying notes I wrote said that I was clearer than most 'neat' writers, with big and obvious letters - one friend of mine had a bit of work handed back with the message, "neat and beautiful writing, but I can't read it without a magnifying glass", but that it was messy with ink spots, and blotches, and crossings out and corrections).
At secondary school we were required to write with fountain pens, not roller-balls or similar (and certainly not biros). Oddly, despite not using one (used a rollerball), only one teacher complained. I explained that it would make my writing a total mess. "but it's the rules" "we're over halfway through the year and you are the first person to complain about what pen I use". Next lesson with her, I borrowed a fountain pen off a friend, and by the end of the third lesson, having tried to mark my homework, the teacher had decided not to enforce the rule - the bottom of my hand, fingertips, and the page, were a big splodge of ink. Even before I smudged/covered in ink the writing I had already done, it was very hard to read due to the thickness of the the line that such pens write with. No teacher ever complained about my not using a fountain pen during my 6 years there, other than that one time. They asked me to double-space, write in blue (ie not black), not use both sides of the paper if cheap paper and other complaints about messiness, but never that I needed to use a fountain pen.
I now just use pencils as much as possible, and computers to write essays and stuff.
I had a teacher in elementary school who I greatly disliked that wrote her J's not as the normal 'J' (with the bottom looking like a smile) but as a J with a frown on the bottom. I always hated that.
I now write my J's like that too.
I also use all caps, small caps, and regular small letters, and generally I'll use one or the other without thinking about it. Sometimes I'll switch mid-form. Don't know why I do this.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2013, 12:39:11 PM
the only time I dot an "i" or "j" is when referring to the imaginary unit, and write those i's and j's in a cursive font. I also happen to write "log" and "lim" in cursive, for whatever reason.
"sin", "cos", etc, however - always printed.
I put the hat on i's, j's, and k's when referring to vectors.
I do my 4's with a closed top, and my 9's have the bottom curled like it is in this sentence.
I cross my z's but not my 7's.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 03, 2013, 09:01:16 PM
Wait, wait... you WRITE on a bar exam? I thought all certification tests like that were all multiple choice. The FE/PE and CEM exams are, at least.
The new Structural Engineering certification exam (a 16 hour, two day exam) has a written portion on it.
Quote from: english si on August 05, 2013, 07:07:12 AM
Quote from: empirestate on August 03, 2013, 04:45:50 PMI used to get terrible grades in handwriting;
You got grades in that?
Back in primary school there were a good number of essays that I got Fs on simply because the teacher could not read my handwriting or would not put in the effort to decipher it. Early on, some of my teachers would not accept typed homework, insisting I needed to practice my penmanship. Later, as home computers became more ubiquitous, it started being accepted and even expected. Of course, typing an assignment I had to do
in class was never an option, and when I was younger I hated typing because I was so slow at it that it took forever (as I got older and started spending more time on the computer and on the internet, my typing speed improved greatly).
Even without that, I have also had teachers and professors take points off of assignments that were legible but still perceived as sloppy. This was much to my ire in college because I had to do a lot of assignments on engineering pad paper, with a pencil, and with a straight edge, compass, and french curve to make diagrams. The amount of time and effort I spent on making the assignment neat easily equaled and sometimes exceeded the amount of time and effort I spent actually solving the problems. It was ridiculous. Especially considering that in over three years of working I have had to present to someone calculations that I wrote out by hand... exactly
once, and that was an odd case. I do all of my calculations at work in Excel.
QuoteAt secondary school we were required to write with fountain pens, not roller-balls or similar (and certainly not biros).
I have never in my life used a fountain pen and without Googling it I wouldn't have any idea where to even obtain one. They are completely unheard of in the US these days, if you had one people would look at it as an odd relic rather than something anyone would ever use.
I have very neat printed handwriting, and can make elegant cursive but it's about as tough and deliberate for me as any other calligraphic font...
I cannot for the life of me use a fountain pen.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 05, 2013, 07:40:27 PM
This was much to my ire in college because I had to do a lot of assignments on engineering pad paper, with a pencil, and with a straight edge, compass, and french curve to make diagrams. The amount of time and effort I spent on making the assignment neat easily equaled and sometimes exceeded the amount of time and effort I spent actually solving the problems. It was ridiculous. Especially considering that in over three years of working I have had to present to someone calculations that I wrote out by hand... exactly once, and that was an odd case. I do all of my calculations at work in Excel.
how old are you? I'm 32; went to college 1999-2004, and I definitely was allowed - in fact, encouraged! - to use a computer to facilitate my work as much as possible. the professors generally knew what was out there; so using google wasn't considered cheating, and in fact
not using google was viewed as wasting one's own time. we were just asked to cite our sources. fortunately, so many of my classes had cooperative projects that "Joe derived this formula; see his problem set" was a perfectly valid citation.
furthermore, in the electrical engineering department we all had to take a programming course as a prerequisite to the rest of the curriculum, so something like "write a short program to brute force through N000 cases" was not viewed as an unusually demanding task, and an elegant Matlab diagram was the logical time-saving choice over straight-edge, compass, etc etc.
I can't use a fountain pen, but my father loves them, especially Mont Blanc. Most decent pen stores carry some kind of fountain pen, even if they don't sell as many these days. But you pretty much have to go to a pen shop or a place like Levenger if you want to find one.
BTW, the comments about getting graded on handwriting in school makes me remember how my fourth grade teacher gave me an "A" in handwriting and then the next year a different teacher gave me a "C" for exactly the same cursive writing. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Duke87 on August 05, 2013, 07:40:27 PM
I have never in my life used a fountain pen and without Googling it I wouldn't have any idea where to even obtain one. They are completely unheard of in the US these days, if you had one people would look at it as an odd relic rather than something anyone would ever use.
Completely unheard of? I have a fountain pen, and I'm in the U.S. Most art supply stores have them.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2013, 08:29:53 PM
BTW, the comments about getting graded on handwriting in school makes me remember how my fourth grade teacher gave me an "A" in handwriting and then the next year a different teacher gave me a "C" for exactly the same cursive writing. :rolleyes:
Heh, been there too. Funny, because for years, people usually commented on how legible and precise my writing appeared (usually when sharing college notes or lists).
Took a few computing courses several years after graduation, one of which required actual writing, and I found my wrists couldn't handle multiple paragraphs. After years of just writing a sentence or two at a time, relying on typing on keyboards likely weakened them. To this day, its appearance shows if I don't take my time.
The handwriting I use to write down notes is halfway between print and cursive. When I write something that I intend someone else to read, I print. If I really put myself into it, it can look elegant. Otherwise, it just looks average, or slightly worse.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 05, 2013, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 05, 2013, 07:40:27 PM
This was much to my ire in college because I had to do a lot of assignments on engineering pad paper, with a pencil, and with a straight edge, compass, and french curve to make diagrams. The amount of time and effort I spent on making the assignment neat easily equaled and sometimes exceeded the amount of time and effort I spent actually solving the problems. It was ridiculous. Especially considering that in over three years of working I have had to present to someone calculations that I wrote out by hand... exactly once, and that was an odd case. I do all of my calculations at work in Excel.
how old are you? I'm 32; went to college 1999-2004, and I definitely was allowed - in fact, encouraged! - to use a computer to facilitate my work as much as possible.
25 and in college 2005-2009. We used computers plenty but when it came to solving problems for homework assignments in engineering classes we were generally expected to write all the work out by hand and show all the steps, on engineering paper. We were allowed to use fancy calculators to do the necessary math but this was how we were required to present our work. Why? Well, because that's what we were told is proper and professional.
To be fair, there are plenty of jobs you could end up in where doing work on engineering paper is still normal - any job where you might need to calculate things in the field without access to a computer, for example. And plenty of older people still use engineering paper to run through problems in the office when it would be just as easy to type everything purely out of habit - an older gentleman I share an office with frequently uses engineering paper, a pen, and a calculator to do stuff that I would just do entirely in Excel.
I think the issue, then, is that I was taught with a philosophy of doing things the traditional way except using modern technology, rather than with a philosophy that takes the full implications of modern technology into account.
I write down music much more quickly by hand than in the computer. Even in college (through 2000) I wrote out a lot of orchestra parts by hand, as notation and printing technology was not yet quite reliable except at the professional level. Today the systems are reliable but still not quick, so I scratch out ideas on blank paper, then when it's all worked out it's a simple extra step to input into software for printing and distribution. At that point it's essentially data entry, whereas while I'm creating my brain is much better wired to a pencil than a keyboard, but there are many people who compose more easily in software too.
20-some years ago during my junior year of high school my calculus teacher was perfectly fine with our using a computer to do the problems as long as we attached a printout showing what we did. I wrote a BASIC program once to solve a problem, so I simply attached a printout showing the program I wrote and my answer. I would have gotten full credit....except I made a typo entering one of the exponents (I think I squared something I meant to cube or something like that–details are foggy many years later). I rather appreciated him allowing that kind of thing because I'd had other math teachers who insisted you write everything out in pencil.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 07, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
[...] I'd had other math teachers who insisted you write everything out in pencil.
All my math teachers had students write in pencil, but I was always different and always wrote with a fountain pen. It was on every test: "Use a pencil!" Just having graduated from high school, I don't think I'll ever have to deal with that again. :)
Quote from: sammi on August 07, 2013, 04:32:02 PM
All my math teachers had students write in pencil, but I was always different and always wrote with a fountain pen. It was on every test: "Use a pencil!" Just having graduated from high school, I don't think I'll ever have to deal with that again. :)
for me, that's just asking for trouble. I make enough mistakes that I need a pencil!
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on August 01, 2013, 05:39:19 AM
anybody else cross their 7's or z's?
Me here, although except for my signature I always print rather than write cursive. I do do one rather unusual thing: To punch up a word or phrase, I will write in italics. Anybody else know how to write italics with pencil or pen?
Quote from: hm insulators on August 07, 2013, 05:28:00 PM
Me here, although except for my signature I always print rather than write cursive. I do do one rather unusual thing: To punch up a word or phrase, I will write in italics. Anybody else know how to write italics with pencil or pen?
I tend to write in italics to emphasize, or when writing scientific names or titles of books (everyone else usually underlines). But it just doesn't work as well in cursive.
I tend to write my lower case K's with a loop for the top diagonal stroke, capital J's with a hook at the top, cross strokes on my I's and capital E's which look like a backward 3.
Does anyone use the classic cursive S or do they just make a regular S? I do the latter because I always had trouble making the cursive S (And my first name being Scott, you'd think I'd get that down). I showed someone why I don't do a cursive S a couple of years ago and they told me it looked more like an ampersand. Now that's bad.
I also don't do the cursive Q. I haven't met that many people who do. I'm inconsistent with the use of a cursive capital A. Sometimes the loop, sometimes not. Same with cursive G. My cursive T's are really just regular T's with a slanted bar going "southwest to northeast" versus a true vertical one.
My 1's have a cap. My 4's are closed. My 6's and 9's look similar to those in this typeface. I put slashes through zeroes when I need to make sure it's not the letter 0, such as in a serial number. And someone noticed in high school that I make my 5's from the bottom up. I still do that sometimes and I notice that if I'm hurrying, I occasionally make an S from the bottom up.
I don't put bars on my I's, but I notice I do occasionally put one on my J's.
I was once told I had nice handwriting "for a guy" but as my right hand has become more arthritic from all the writing and notetaking I do when I'm covering games, it's gotten sloppier. I have to concentrate now in order to maintain a neat stroke but if my hand starts to ache, I can't maintain it. The 4's, 6's and 9's will also get sloppier looking but I make a 1 with a cap no matter what. I'm so compulsive about that that I'll go back and add the stroke at the top if I notice I didn't make it while I was hurrying to get something down.
Also, because I drew cartoons in middle school and high school and signed the strips with just my last name, my first name and last name (Nuzum) in my signature evolved differently. It's a decent-looking "Scott" followed by a poor-looking N, a curl, then a line that's supposed to be the "um" (which is not connected to the curl that's allegedly the "Z").
And if you think that would be fun to read, you ought to hear me trying to spell my last name to someone over the phone. :bigass:
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 16, 2013, 02:38:49 AM
I tend to write my lower case K's with a loop for the top diagonal stroke
Interesting, I've always thought of that as something girls do more than guys. But it looks weird to me either way.
I draw both my upper and lower case ks as three straight line segments - first the vertical from bottom to top, then the top diagonal from the intersection up and to the right, then the bottom diagonal from the intersection down and to the right. Yes, this means I pick my pen up three times every time I write the letter. Inefficient in traditional schools of thought but it works for me. And again, this was a methodology I devised myself, so it differs from any way it's typically taught.
Quoteand capital E's which look like a backward 3.
In a science or engineering class this might become problematic as that is what a lowercase Greek letter epsilon (ε) looks like.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 18, 2013, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 16, 2013, 02:38:49 AM
I tend to write my lower case K's with a loop for the top diagonal stroke
Interesting, I've always thought of that as something girls do more than guys. But it looks weird to me either way.
I had an ex once who used to use miniature capital R's where you'd normally expect lowercase ones. I wonder if this is because her name begins with R?
Quote from: Duke87 on August 18, 2013, 06:35:30 PM
I draw both my upper and lower case ks as three straight line segments - first the vertical from bottom to top, then the top diagonal from the intersection up and to the right, then the bottom diagonal from the intersection down and to the right. Yes, this means I pick my pen up three times every time I write the letter. Inefficient in traditional schools of thought but it works for me. And again, this was a methodology I devised myself, so it differs from any way it's typically taught.
Hmm, I do the vertical from top to bottom, then the two angled strokes as a sideways V (a single, two-part stroke).
In fact, I do all verticals from top to bottom except capital F, M, N, and P.
Quote from: Duke87 on August 18, 2013, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 16, 2013, 02:38:49 AM
I tend to write my lower case K's with a loop for the top diagonal stroke
Interesting, I've always thought of that as something girls do more than guys. But it looks weird to me either way.
....
Funny, I've always (going back to the second grade when we learned cursive writing) thought of cursive writing in general as looking effeminate with all the stupid little curlicues and loops we were required to make (we were graded on whether we complied with the exemplar letters hanging above the blackboard).
This thread is ancient, but I wanted to talk about handwriting. I find that the way I write certain characters is based on Highway Gothic (or FHWA), a font chosen because it is designed to be easily decipherable from afar. All of the digits I write are based on how they look in FHWA, other than my 1's and 8's (I like to make an S before closing it up--it's hard to make 8's look like FHWA when you write them this way). Does anyone else get inspiration on how to write letters, numbers, or symbols from the way they appear on road signs?
There are two numerals for which I think I have an uncommon way of writing them.
(https://i.imgur.com/jaZlDKN.jpg)
For the 8, I start off almost like a 2. The beginning and ending points meet at the middle (approximately). I started doing this years ago, based on something handwritten I saw in a museum once.
For the 5, the curve and downward line are separate strokes. I write the bottom curve first, then I write the other part by going up and to the right.
Quote from: formulanone on August 06, 2013, 07:17:42 AMAfter years of just writing a sentence or two at a time, relying on typing on keyboards likely weakened them.
In the past two years, I've kept an "analog backup" of work performed and travel notes to maintain my writing. It's helped a bit.