(Yes, a federal highway counts as a state highway, being state maintained and all.)
Conejos, CO (looks like it may have been served by SH 17 until 1926, but doesn't appear to have had one since then)
Kalawao County, HI
Edgartown, MA and Nantucket, MA (have state-maintained highways but nothing numbered)
Any others?
North Slope, Northwest Arctic, Aleutians East, Bristol Bay, Lake and Peninsula, Kodiak Island, Yakutat, Skagway, Sitka, Wrangell, (others?) boroughs in Alaska. I didn't include any unorganized.
Belvidere, NJ
Quote from: Steve on August 15, 2013, 12:26:45 AM
Belvidere, NJ
SR 1004 goes up to the city limits :bigass:
But yeah, I'd count it.
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 14, 2013, 12:23:55 PM
North Slope, Northwest Arctic, Aleutians East, Bristol Bay, Lake and Peninsula, Kodiak Island, Yakutat, Skagway, Sitka, Wrangell, (others?) boroughs in Alaska. I didn't include any unorganized.
Skagway has AK 98. Ketchikan Gateway, Juneau, Petersburg (newly-established borough), and Haines all have segments of AK 7 serving their borough seats.
North Slope is served by AK 11, but that highway is hundreds of miles from the borough seat of Barrow, which also has no other numbered state highway access (it has unnumbered state-maintained roads -- Alaska DOT maintains roads in even the most isolated communities, they just aren't assigned route numbers, only six-digit internal inventory numbers). The borough seats of Aleutians East, Kodiak, Yakutat, Sitka, and Wrangell boroughs have only Alaska Marine Highway System ferry service, in addition to unnumbered state-maintained local roads. Northwest Arctic and Bristol Bay boroughs have no state highway access of any kind, except unnumbered state-maintained local roads. Lake and Peninsula borough has occasional AMHS ferry service (at Chignik), but its borough seat is in Bristol Bay borough, and has no state highway access of any kind except unnumbered state-maintained local roads.
Of the census areas, Prince of Wales-Hyder, Dillingham, Bethel, Wade Hampton, and Nome have no state highway access of any kind except unnumbered state-maintained local roads, and Hoonah-Angoon and Aleutians West have only AMHS ferry service and unnumbered state-maintained local roads. Valdez-Cordova has AK 4 and AK 10; Southeast Fairbanks has AK 1, AK 2, AK 4, and AK 5; Yukon-Koyukuk has AK 2, AK 3, AK 6, and AK 11 (but no obvious "seat" for that census area, and if there were it might not be on either highway).
Fort Yates, North Dakota, has no state highway running to it now, and I don't think it ever has.
Pointe a la Hache, LA really isn't a town or village of any sort anymore with limits, but LA 39 serves it. Otherwise that'd be the closest match for a Louisiana seat.
Friday Harbor, San Juan County, WA, has never had a state numbered highway. However, officially, the Washington State Ferry routes are designated as an unsigned segment of WA 20 Spur.
Closest you get for New York would be St. George (Richmond County), but it used to have NY 439 so no go.
Quote from: TCN7JM on October 18, 2013, 08:14:51 AM
Fort Yates, North Dakota, has no state highway running to it now, and I don't think it ever has.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~33754~1171470:Rand-McNally-junior-auto-road-map-N appears to show ND 37 passing through (leaving to the south on Standing Rock Avenue), but it could be full of it.
Quote from: empirestate on October 18, 2013, 11:49:30 AM
Closest you get for New York would be St. George (Richmond County), but it used to have NY 439 so no go.
But does that count with all state routes in NYC other than expressways or parkways being locally maintained? It had a state route number, but the state never owned it.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on October 18, 2013, 11:31:24 AM
Pointe a la Hache, LA really isn't a town or village of any sort anymore with limits, but LA 39 serves it. Otherwise that'd be the closest match for a Louisiana seat.
That place is so remote and out of the way that it would be my first choice of shelter during a zombie apocalypse. :sombrero:
More on topic, I don't think there's a single incorporated place in Louisiana that doesn't have a state highway pass through its limits.
Quote from: NE2 on October 18, 2013, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: TCN7JM on October 18, 2013, 08:14:51 AM
Fort Yates, North Dakota, has no state highway running to it now, and I don't think it ever has.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~33754~1171470:Rand-McNally-junior-auto-road-map-N appears to show ND 37 passing through (leaving to the south on Standing Rock Avenue), but it could be full of it.
It might have been different in 1927, but the way the river is now, that isn't possible. A Citgo map I have from 1965 shows the highway skirting the western edge, but all official maps I have (a couple from the 70s, a few from the 80s, one from 1990), show it going clear west of the city like it does now.
The riverbank was different back then: http://research.archives.gov/description/5834690 (second page, last image; note that ND 24 did bypass Fort Yates then)
Whoa. Is there another town surrounding Fort Yates? Why did the city never annex it's urban surrounding?
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 18, 2013, 09:23:57 PM
Whoa. Is there another town surrounding Fort Yates?
Sort of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Rock
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on October 18, 2013, 07:50:24 PMMore on topic, I don't think there's a single incorporated place in Louisiana that doesn't have a state highway pass through its limits.
If we made a topic on all incorporated places in the US without state highways, we'd be here all day... so I'm tempted to start one. :bigass:
Since we're using city/village limits as criteria here, it raises the question of how you'd count unincorporated county seats. Would the state highway have to go through the business district or the "main" intersection?
Louisiana has 2 unincorporated parish seats, Pointe a la Hache and Convent. I would say where the courthouse is. St. James Parish courthouse is right on LA 44 (Convent really doesn't have a conventional 4 way intersection or crossroads). Plaquemines Parish is an oddity. I don't think there is a working courthouse at all anymore in Pointe a la Hache, although the old one is on an old road facing the river, which may have been LA 39 at one point. I'm guessing the working courthouse these days is in Belle Chasse? Why the seat hasn't changed I'll never know...
Quote from: bassoon1986 on October 21, 2013, 10:53:20 AM
Louisiana has 2 unincorporated parish seats, Pointe a la Hache and Convent. I would say where the courthouse is. St. James Parish courthouse is right on LA 44 (Convent really doesn't have a conventional 4 way intersection or crossroads). Plaquemines Parish is an oddity. I don't think there is a working courthouse at all anymore in Pointe a la Hache, although the old one is on an old road facing the river, which may have been LA 39 at one point. I'm guessing the working courthouse these days is in Belle Chasse? Why the seat hasn't changed I'll never know...
The old courthouse in Pointe a la Hache burned down in 2002 and has been sitting as a ruin ever since. (Katrina would have flooded/destroyed the structure in any case a few years later.) The seat of government has been temporarily located in Belle Chasse since that time. There have been a couple of proposals to move the parish seat to someplace more central on the west side of the river - I believe Port Sulphur and West Pointe a la Hache have been proposed as sites, but folks in lower Plaquemines and on the east bank have so far resisted any such moves.
(Not that there are too many folks left out there nowadays...) This article from 2010 gives some background:
http://www.nola.com/katrina/index.ssf/2010/08/plaquemines_parish_population.html
Though I agree the parish seat needs to move (definitely somewhere closer to Belle Chasse - maybe Myrtle Grove or Jesuit Bend?) I would hate to see the old courthouse entirely removed, as my great-grandmother was born in Pointe a la Hache around the time that old courthouse was brand spanking new (!).
Also, other unincorporated parish seats in Louisiana include Chalmette, Hahnville, Cameron, and Edgard.
Quote from: dgolub on October 18, 2013, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 18, 2013, 11:49:30 AM
Closest you get for New York would be St. George (Richmond County), but it used to have NY 439 so no go.
But does that count with all state routes in NYC other than expressways or parkways being locally maintained? It had a state route number, but the state never owned it.
But at the point when this was St. George and not City of New York, there were no state highways anyway.
Quote from: Steve on October 21, 2013, 09:19:47 PM
But at the point when this was St. George and not City of New York, there were no state highways anyway.
Yeah, the state started improving (and numbering for internal use) state highways less than a year after NYC consolidated. Only Queens County had one in the early days (SH 9104 to Rockaway Point, taken over in accordance with a special law).
Quote from: Steve on October 21, 2013, 09:19:47 PM
Quote from: dgolub on October 18, 2013, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 18, 2013, 11:49:30 AM
Closest you get for New York would be St. George (Richmond County), but it used to have NY 439 so no go.
But does that count with all state routes in NYC other than expressways or parkways being locally maintained? It had a state route number, but the state never owned it.
But at the point when this was St. George and not City of New York, there were no state highways anyway.
It's still St. George, though, and still the county seat, it's just now a neighborhood of a borough of the city. So if non-state-owned touring routes don't count as "state highways", then yeah, we have a winner here.
Quote from: empirestate on October 21, 2013, 10:59:08 PM
It's still St. George, though, and still the county seat,
[citation needed]
When the seat of government is in an unincorporated community, the boundaries of the county seat are usually not well-defined. There doesn't seem to be any authority that defines county seats; it's simply the common term for where the county offices are located. So who's to say that St. George is the county seat, and not Staten Island, or NYC as a whole?
Quote from: NE2 on October 21, 2013, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 21, 2013, 10:59:08 PM
It's still St. George, though, and still the county seat,
[citation needed]
New York State Gazetteer, published in 1995 by NYSDOT as a companion to its official state map, and reprinted in 1998 as part of its official state atlas.
QuoteWhen the seat of government is in an unincorporated community, the boundaries of the county seat are usually not well-defined. There doesn't seem to be any authority that defines county seats; it's simply the common term for where the county offices are located. So who's to say that St. George is the county seat, and not Staten Island, or NYC as a whole?
Who, indeed. Do you mean that you take a different location to be the Richmond County seat? Which? The courthouse is located in St. George, across from the ferry terminal, so that's definitely the seat, by as official a definition as there may or may not be. The seat is also in the borough of Staten Island, but since that's coextensive with the county, it's rather like saying that the county is its own seat, which is not helpful information for finding where the government offices might be located. The specific location of St. George is a better particularization of where the seat is.
Here's one for you: Kaskaskia, Illinois was the county seat of Randolph County, Illinois, until 1844, when it was moved to Chester (where it still is today). In 1881, flooding destroyed most of the town of Kaskaskia and (perhaps more interestingly) caused the diversion of the Mississippi River to a new channel, isolating the town from the rest of Illinois on the new west bank of the river. To this day, Kaskaskia is not served by an Illinois state highway. US 61 in Missouri comes within a few yards of the residual Kaskaskia Island (of which the remaining village is a small part) but never crosses into Illinois.
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2013, 12:32:49 AM
The specific location of St. George is a better particularization of where the seat is.
Applying this argument to other large cities, you'll probably find that many supposed county seat neighborhoods are not actually served by any state highways. For example, does New York County's seat have one? What's the county seat - Manhattan? Lower Manhattan? Or the "Civic Center" neighborhood?
And what's the county seat of a consolidated city-county, if not the city?
Quote from: NE2 on October 22, 2013, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2013, 12:32:49 AM
The specific location of St. George is a better particularization of where the seat is.
Applying this argument to other large cities, you'll probably find that many supposed county seat neighborhoods are not actually served by any state highways. For example, does New York County's seat have one? What's the county seat - Manhattan? Lower Manhattan? Or the "Civic Center" neighborhood?
The seat of New York County is given as Manhattan, probably because the Gazetteer doesn't register any placenames at a finer resolution than that.
You could indeed apply the argument to other large cities, but in most cases you'll find the city itself to have been designated as the county seat in a more formal manner than we have here; the seats of NYC's borough/counties aren't set down legislatively, as far as I'm aware.
I'll leave it to you as the OP to make the judgement on Richmond County; as I say, I've already discounted because it used to have NY 439. I am curious to know what you decide though, since the only official source I've seen says its seat is at St. George, and I'm interested to know if you've deduced it to be elsewhere.
(For others' edification, by the way, the other NYC county seats are:
Queens Co. - Jamaica (unincorporated)
Kings Co. - Brooklyn (borough)
Bronx Co. - Bronx (borough)
New York Co. - Manhattan (borough).
Quote from: NE2 on October 22, 2013, 01:32:39 AM
And what's the county seat of a consolidated city-county, if not the city?
This.
Second.
Bump.
Quote from: Steve on October 22, 2013, 07:51:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on October 22, 2013, 01:32:39 AM
And what's the county seat of a consolidated city-county, if not the city?
This.
Second.
Bump.
I don't know, as I would also say it's the city. But we were talking about New York, which isn't a consolidated city-county (it's a city consolidated into 5 counties), so I didn't mention those. As for each borough/county acting as a consolidated entity in itself, indeed there are the three whose seats are themselves. But the seats of the other two are unincorporated areas
within these consolidated areas. That's according to the only state source I have at my disposal; the only other source I could think of would be NACo, but they don't recognize the counties of NYC, presumably because they are actually branches of the city government and not functioning counties in their own right.
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2013, 08:41:03 PM
I don't know, as I would also say it's the city. But we were talking about New York, which isn't a consolidated city-county (it's a city consolidated into 5 counties), so I didn't mention those. As for each borough/county acting as a consolidated entity in itself, indeed there are the three whose seats are themselves. But the seats of the other two are unincorporated areas within these consolidated areas. That's according to the only state source I have at my disposal; the only other source I could think of would be NACo, but they don't recognize the counties of NYC, presumably because they are actually branches of the city government and not functioning counties in their own right.
Eh? There's no such thing as an unincorporated area within the boundaries of an incorporated municipality (in New York, cities or villages are examples of municipal corporations). Jamaica and St. George are neighborhoods of the city of New York (specifically neighborhoods of the boroughs of Queens and Staten Island), not unincorporated areas.
Quote from: lordsutch on October 22, 2013, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2013, 08:41:03 PM
I don't know, as I would also say it's the city. But we were talking about New York, which isn't a consolidated city-county (it's a city consolidated into 5 counties), so I didn't mention those. As for each borough/county acting as a consolidated entity in itself, indeed there are the three whose seats are themselves. But the seats of the other two are unincorporated areas within these consolidated areas. That's according to the only state source I have at my disposal; the only other source I could think of would be NACo, but they don't recognize the counties of NYC, presumably because they are actually branches of the city government and not functioning counties in their own right.
Eh? There's no such thing as an unincorporated area within the boundaries of an incorporated municipality (in New York, cities or villages are examples of municipal corporations). Jamaica and St. George are neighborhoods of the city of New York (specifically neighborhoods of the boroughs of Queens and Staten Island), not unincorporated areas.
They are within incorporated territory, but are not themselves incorporated. (There is no "Village of St. George" or "Town of Jamaica", in other words–at least not anymore.) It might help you to think of the term "non-incorporated" rather than "unincorporated".