does this exist? even unofficially?
I know the official FHWA 1945 font set added lowercase officially only in 2002 to widths other than EM, and A was deprecated in the US in 1966, but I know other places still may use A (New Zealand? Netherlands?), so did they add a lowercase?
furthermore, do any of the unofficial lowercase alphabets (Florida 1960s, etc) come with an A?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 03, 2013, 08:59:16 PMdoes this exist? even unofficially?
I am not aware that it does.
QuoteI know the official FHWA 1945 font set added lowercase officially only in 2002 to widths other than EM, and A was deprecated in the US in 1966, but I know other places still may use A (New Zealand? Netherlands?), so did they add a lowercase?
Australia and New Zealand repackaged the FHWA alphabet series as an Australian Standard (AS 1742, if memory serves). It does include Series A. It also includes three levels of intercharacter spacing (narrow, medium, wide)--if memory serves, the default spacing (which corresponds to the normal spacing of the FHWA series) is "medium" for all alphabet series other than E Modified, for which it is "wide." Series A-F are all-uppercase while E Modified is the only one with lowercase letters, and AFAIK the standard has never been updated to add lowercase letters for the other series.
New Zealand is the only jurisdiction I am aware of that has had standard signs with Series A on the books in the recent past, and its use there is limited to special truck-related signs that identify roads by weight class. That was one
MOTSAM revision cycle ago, however, and I suspect those signs may be gone now (indeed, it makes sense to find some way to dump them).
thanks for the info!
I'd love to find an A-width lowercase.
that said, it may make sense to analyze where (uppercase) A was used in the US. I don't know of any destination or other guide signs with A on them; offhand, all I can think of is route shields with particularly long state names (PENNSYLVANIA, WASHINGTON) and some parking signs. so these would not ever receive lowercase. guide signs with mixed case have C and D, for the most part.
I seem to be heading to the right place at the right time to search for Series A. I'll let you know what turns up Down Under.
Why not design one yourself? It might be interesting...
Steve, this is just by the by, but if you find any old-style warning signs with black background and reflectorized yellow or silver graphics, photograph them--authorization for them was removed in 1976, when New Zealand adopted modern reflectorized-background warning and regulatory signs in a major traffic regulations change, and they are therefore very rare.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 04, 2013, 10:53:53 AM
Steve, this is just by the by, but if you find any old-style warning signs with black background and reflectorized yellow or silver graphics, photograph them--authorization for them was removed in 1976, when New Zealand adopted modern reflectorized-background warning and regulatory signs in a major traffic regulations change, and they are therefore very rare.
A hint as to what I'm looking for?
Quote from: Steve on September 05, 2013, 12:20:33 AMQuote from: J N Winkler on September 04, 2013, 10:53:53 AMSteve, this is just by the by, but if you find any old-style warning signs with black background and reflectorized yellow or silver graphics, photograph them--authorization for them was removed in 1976, when New Zealand adopted modern reflectorized-background warning and regulatory signs in a major traffic regulations change, and they are therefore very rare.
A hint as to what I'm looking for?
In a short phrase, reversed colors. Modern New Zealand warning signs look more or less identical to their Australian and North American counterparts--black graphic on reflectorized yellow background. With the pre-1976 signs it was the other way around.
There used to be pictures of the old signs online, but they are not turning up for me in a casual Google image search.
By the way, here's an example of Series A in use:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/sign-specifications/sign-display-page.html?CatID=12&ID=248
(The design of this sign has changed--in the last edition of
MOTSAM, the colors were reversed inside the red roundel: i.e., white letters, black background.)
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 05, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/sign-specifications/sign-display-page.html?CatID=12&ID=248
can you help me find guide sign and route marker specs on that site? clicking on "guide" yields "no results found".
also, any older versions of that reference manual out there? I'd love to see how things were signed in the past.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 05, 2013, 01:28:59 PMcan you help me find guide sign and route marker specs on that site? clicking on "guide" yields "no results found".
I think they just haven't gotten around to drawing them yet.
The
Manual of Traffic Signs and Markings (which has been around since the 1980's at least) is available for chapter-by-chapter download. It comes in three parts (1--traffic signs, 2--pavement markings, 3--motorway signs and markings). The part that is available online is similar to an earlier (1998) edition which, as far as I know, has appeared in print only, and has not been scanned or archived online.
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/motsam/part-1/motsam-1.html
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/motsam/part-2/motsam-2.html
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/motsam/part-3/motsam-3.html
MOTSAM is in the process of being replaced by a
Traffic Control Devices Manual.
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/index.html
Parts of it are not written yet, and others incorporate
MOTSAM parts by reference, so it is a confusing mess.
The traditional format of
MOTSAM is a color image of each sign accompanied by a keyline dimensioned drawing, similar to what we would have if the
SHS book had been combined with the
MUTCD. In the edition currently available for download, the keyline drawings seem to have been dropped in favor of a collection of Sign Specifications which seems to exist only as a group of HTML pages and is treated as a self-contained volume of the
Traffic Control Devices Manual.
very nice! good to have some shield patterns.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 05, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
By the way, here's an example of Series A in use:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/traffic-control-devices-manual/sign-specifications/sign-display-page.html?CatID=12&ID=248
(The design of this sign has changed--in the last edition of MOTSAM, the colors were reversed inside the red roundel: i.e., white letters, black background.)
I did not see a single example of this sign. found two older black guide signs, and some regulatory with black background - none with black background and yellow border, though.
I don't know much about the inverted warning signs, but this is the pre-1991 yield sign used in New Zealand. I imagine there must be a few left, given that it only went out of style two decades ago. Like above, I don't have any photos, but there is this SVG of what it (apparently) looked like:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/New_Zealand_RG-6_%28old%29.svg/150px-New_Zealand_RG-6_%28old%29.svg.png)
NB 101/199 interchange just north of Crescent City CA has Oregon Coast as the destination for 101. On the 199 destination sign is a To I-5 Grants Pass and that freeway is about 90 miles away!
Rick
I too, would be very curious to see a lower-case Series A. All I can offer is a CROSS sign from Auckland, NZ in 2003. This was the only textual one I saw, all the others were symbolic. And I'm sure this one is gone now too. (I believe the sign was WAIT/CROSS, which seems like it might have been a better choice than the WAIT/WALK that was used in the US.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmunicipalwaterboard.com%2F85%2F85.jpg&hash=d0a8abce49319db409076a0307402a075f8c2ad0)