AARoads Forum

Somewhat apropos to my plans for next year's National Meet (that's right, they're coming back!), I'm curious how people feel about tolls on meets. We've had a few meets go through rather low-order tolls of a dollar or less, but when you're talking about the New York (city) area, tolls are quite a bit more than that. It's possible to rack up $20 in tolls just checking out two or three of the historic bridges around the city.

So... how much is too much? Especially for people who regularly attend meets, would you be turned off by a $5 toll, or $10, or... what is your tipping point? Better to ask now before I start firming up what to see over the course of two days.

I think most people would probably be more open to paying tolls at a road meet if you split the cost between everyone in the car. People usually carpool for the actual meet tour, so if you've got 4 people in your car, a $10 toll becomes only $2.50 each. Much more palatable than paying that toll by yourself.

Right, I voted $4 or $5, with the idea that with four people in the car that allows for quite a bit of toll money. If we all chip in $5, that covers $20.

Depends on the purpose. If it's just for clinching a route and turning back, I wouldn't want to pay shit.

if the purpose is a road meet - I won't give a shit - Let's do this.

If it were everyday driving? In NYC - let the train operator drive :P

Since the tolls and parking on the meet I hosted totaled about $5 per car, that's what I voted for.

Don't matter to me, as long as it's EZPass compatbile. The last time I remember paying a toll for a road meet was probably the Joilet, IL meet last spring.

Amount wouldn't matter to me, since it's a road meet and I'm already buying gas and possibly paying tolls to get there, but I never drive on the tours because there is always so much stuff piled in my car. But I would be more than willing to help chip in for the tolls in whatever vehicle I'm in -- or register it on my EZPass account if it doesn't already have an EZPass. Since WV allows you to add a vehicle online, I could register the driver's vehicle on my account via iPad or iPhone while we were eating or getting ready to depart on the tour.

If you're doing this in the NYC area, we need to get Suffolk and Nassau counties while on the tour or I will be paying a couple of bridge tolls anyway to visit those counties and clinch NY while I'm in the area.

I said about $4-$5 as that's about what you'd spend with an I-Pass on the ISTHA tollways around here.

Quote from: Steve on September 10, 2013, 08:09:37 PM
Somewhat apropos to my plans for next year's National Meet (that's right, they're coming back!), I'm curious how people feel about tolls on meets. We've had a few meets go through rather low-order tolls of a dollar or less, but when you're talking about the New York (city) area, tolls are quite a bit more than that. It's possible to rack up $20 in tolls just checking out two or three of the historic bridges around the city.

So... how much is too much? Especially for people who regularly attend meets, would you be turned off by a $5 toll, or $10, or... what is your tipping point? Better to ask now before I start firming up what to see over the course of two days.

Just wondering, which historic bridges were you thinking of?  The oldest bridges in NYC are all free--Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, Queensboro, and all the little ones between Manhattan and the Bronx.

That said, I'd have no problem paying tolls for a road meet.

Depending on my various activities, I'm paying upwards of $60 a month in tolls, so another few tolls isn't a big deal.

With fair advance warning, I'm willing to pay up to $50. Worst case, you can put the cheaper people in one car and give them an alternate itinerary.

Quote from: dgolub on September 10, 2013, 10:54:14 PM

Quote from: Steve on September 10, 2013, 08:09:37 PM
Somewhat apropos to my plans for next year's National Meet (that's right, they're coming back!), I'm curious how people feel about tolls on meets. We've had a few meets go through rather low-order tolls of a dollar or less, but when you're talking about the New York (city) area, tolls are quite a bit more than that. It's possible to rack up $20 in tolls just checking out two or three of the historic bridges around the city.

So... how much is too much? Especially for people who regularly attend meets, would you be turned off by a $5 toll, or $10, or... what is your tipping point? Better to ask now before I start firming up what to see over the course of two days.

Just wondering, which historic bridges were you thinking of?  The oldest bridges in NYC are all free--Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, Queensboro, and all the little ones between Manhattan and the Bronx.

That said, I'd have no problem paying tolls for a road meet.

While not the oldest bridges, the George Washington, Bayonne, Goethals, Outerbridge, Verrazano, Triboro, Henry Hudson, and Whitestone are all historic in their own right, and tolled. (I'm ambivalent about the Throgs Neck, and the bridges to the Rockaways are forgettable.)

Quote from: Steve on September 11, 2013, 01:09:44 AM
While not the oldest bridges, the George Washington, Bayonne, Goethals, Outerbridge, Verrazano, Triboro, Henry Hudson, and Whitestone are all historic in their own right, and tolled. (I'm ambivalent about the Throgs Neck, and the bridges to the Rockaways are forgettable.)

Sounds like fun, although having grown up in the New York area I've been over all of them at one point or another.  We'd have to cover a lot of distance to get all those bridges in one meet.  I'm definitely interested.

IMHO, given NYC's limited amount of parking; carpooling (which allows the sharing of tolls and gas costs among passengers) would be strongly encouraged more so than at other meet locations.

Given my various trips to Massachusetts I do on holiday weekends (paying tolls on the NJTP, GSP, TZBridge, Mass Pike & PA Turnpike (for one exit)), I put my maximum toll threshold at $10-$12.

For potential carpooling alone, I would use my 6-passenger '97 Crown Vic to an NYC meet rather than my Mustang ragtop.

E-ZPass would also help lower the overall toll, so if I knew we had enough E-ZPass/compatible tag holders, I could calculate the total cost beforehand (probably about $14-$15), have a tag in every car, and collect enough from the non-tag holders to give back. (Or we could all pitch in and buy the tagholders lunch.)

Steve - given which agency the E-Z Pass was obtained from with MTA being one to push NY agency passes.

Regarding New York EZ-Passes, the only way to get an actual New York (mainly Thruway) EZPass is to use a New York address (if you have one) when one registers.  When I got my first EZPass at a Thruway service center, even though it was in New York, I received a PANYNJ tag because I used an out-of-state address (like a fool, I didn't use Meaghan's address).

I wonder if my PO Box address in Champlain would work...

Quote from: froggie on September 11, 2013, 11:48:59 PM
Regarding New York EZ-Passes, the only way to get an actual New York (mainly Thruway) EZPass is to use a New York address (if you have one) when one registers.  When I got my first EZPass at a Thruway service center, even though it was in New York, I received a PANYNJ tag because I used an out-of-state address (like a fool, I didn't use Meaghan's address).

...which would have been Vermont. Wonder if you still would have gotten a Port Authority tag with that out-of-state address?

And wonder what they would send me, as a Kentucky resident, if I tried to get one?

I had no trouble getting Peace Bridge tags a few years ago -- except for the longer-than-advertised delay in delivery, which prompted me to drive to Charleston to get a WV tag a couple of days before my wife was heading out on a trip to an E-ZPass state so she could use it. Peace Bridge was very tardy in mailing the tags. They've never been used and I still have them at home somewhere. Guess I ought to turn them in and get my money back.

Pennsylvania actually has a vending machine at Sideling Hill that captures your information on the touch screen and spits out an E-ZPass on the spot.

Not Vermont.  At the time, Meaghan lived in Syracuse and I was in Norfolk the first time.

Quote from: hbelkins on September 12, 2013, 10:51:00 AM
...which would have been Vermont. Wonder if you still would have gotten a Port Authority tag with that out-of-state address?

Quite possibly; it's illegal for agencies in NY to charge a fee for E-ZPass, but the Port Authority is allowed to have one because NJ law doesn't prohibit the fee.  So they're considered NY for the purposes of distributing tags but NJ for the purposes of fees.

Quote from: SSOWorld on September 11, 2013, 10:10:49 PM
Steve - given which agency the E-Z Pass was obtained from with MTA being one to push NY agency passes.

That seems to be a question framed as a statement, but I don't think the discounts are limited to NYC area users when you're talking about weekends as opposed to rush hour. I'm not familiar with such things, though.

I think for me amount is far less important than purpose. If avoiding the toll takes more time than it's worth, paying the toll is preferable.

If you are going to do something like this in New York City though, every driver should have an EZPass. Waiting to pay cash can take a while and will make you fall behind on the tour.

As for obtaining a fee-free NY EZPass from out of state, apparently you can do that by purchasing one in the cash toll lanes at an MTA crossing. And yes, it does matter: non-NY EZPasses are charged the cash rate on MTA facilities 24/7

New York Thruway rest areas and a few selected vendors also sell E-ZPass transponders.

NYSTA has indeed charged me the discounted toll rate for the Tappan Zee Bridge on my PA Turnpike-issued EZ-Pass.  Does the PANYNJ and/or MTA offer discounted tolls rates for EZ-Pass users from other states (outside of NJ)?

MTA definitely does not. Not sure about PANYNJ.

If a toll were in play for a meet I was attending as a guest, I said $10-12 (and this is presuming I'm just chipping in), but really, I doubt you're going to see many places where that much money is spent on tolls. That's like $48 per car. 

Hosting? That depends on the expected toll amount and other factors. Let's say for the sake of the question that the expected toll is $10 for each car, and there are 3 carloads. I can cover that for my carload and even help the other vehicles in the fleet, no problem and I wouldn't quibble either way. If I hosted one in a city where there were a LOT of tolls and they were pretty significant, then it becomes a case of "I need help to do this effectively". For now at least, there are no mandated tolls in Cincinnati. Replacing the Brent Spence Bridge is expected to change this, as the current plans call for tolls. The studies are in progress at this time to determine how this will best be done.

Quote from: Duke87 on September 13, 2013, 12:05:20 AM
I think for me amount is far less important than purpose. If avoiding the toll takes more time than it's worth, paying the toll is preferable.

Yeah, don't try to get back into New York from New Jersey without paying any tolls--you'll have to 300-mile detour through Albany, a good part of it on local roads.  On the other hand, if you're going from Manhattan to the Bronx, the Willis Avenue Bridge is great.

Quote from: Duke87 on September 19, 2013, 09:23:08 PM
MTA definitely does not. Not sure about PANYNJ.

That sucks regarding MTA; that means one has to pay the extortion toll rate of $15 if using the Verrazano to Staten Island; the EZ-Pass toll is $10.66. 

Man, times have changed.  Back in 2000, the toll on the VZ was $7 w/an EZ-Pass rate of $3.50.  Seeing that toll rate difference was what prompted me to sign up for EZ-Pass; this was before agencies started imposing an annual fee even if one applied for automatic replenishment most discounts applied to all EZ-Pass users regardless of which agency their accounts were from.

MTA car toll rate info:

http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.html#cars (http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.html#cars)

PANYNJ tolls rates for cars:

http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/tolls.html (http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/tolls.html)

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 20, 2013, 01:27:03 AM
If a toll were in play for a meet I was attending as a guest, I said $10-12 (and this is presuming I'm just chipping in), but really, I doubt you're going to see many places where that much money is spent on tolls. That's like $48 per car.

With all due respect, you've clearly never been to the northeast if not NYC.  See further up this post and web-links for current toll rates.

If a meet itinerary involves using several of the river crossings all in one day; a $48 per car rate is not completely out of line.

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 20, 2013, 01:27:03 AM
If a toll were in play for a meet I was attending as a guest, I said $10-12 (and this is presuming I'm just chipping in), but really, I doubt you're going to see many places where that much money is spent on tolls. That's like $48 per car. 

Actually, $48 per car could easily be on the low end.  I'd wager that tolls on the NYC bridges/tunnels are the second highest in North America, right after the Confederation Bridge in Canada.  The Verrazano alone is $15.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 20, 2013, 08:54:50 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on September 19, 2013, 09:23:08 PM
MTA definitely does not. Not sure about PANYNJ.

That sucks regarding MTA; that means one has to pay the extortion toll rate of $15 if using the Verrazano to Staten Island; the EZ-Pass toll is $10.66. 

Man, times have changed.  Back in 2000, the toll on the VZ was $7 w/an EZ-Pass rate of $3.50.  Seeing that toll rate difference was what prompted me to sign up for EZ-Pass; this was before agencies started imposing an annual fee even if one applied for automatic replenishment most discoutns applied to all EZ-Pass users regardless of which agency their accounts were from.

MTA car toll rate info:

http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.html#cars (http://web.mta.info/bandt/traffic/btmain.html#cars)

PANYNJ tolls rates for cars:

http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/tolls.html (http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/tolls.html)

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 20, 2013, 01:27:03 AM
If a toll were in play for a meet I was attending as a guest, I said $10-12 (and this is presuming I'm just chipping in), but really, I doubt you're going to see many places where that much money is spent on tolls. That's like $48 per car.

With all due respect, you've clearly never been to the northeast if not NYC.  See further up this post and web-links for current toll rates.

If a meet itinerary involves using several of the river crossings all in one day; a $48 per car rate is not completely out of line.

I didn't say there were no places like that. I DID say "I doubt you'll see many". NYC is certainly one, and Chicago could qualify, but I struggle to think of others.

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 23, 2013, 09:06:43 AM
I didn't say there were no places like that. I DID say "I doubt you'll see many". NYC is certainly one, and Chicago could qualify, but I struggle to think of others.

Well, this thread was started concerning the NYC meet next year.  We've had meets before in places with the typical toll amount, and the solution at these times was to either have drivers eat the cost (happened in NJ meets where the turnpike/parkway was part of the tour) or to avoid the toll road altogether.  Shunpiking is a tradition in NJ meets (unless the toll road itself is part of the tour), for example.

Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2013, 01:03:47 PM

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 23, 2013, 09:06:43 AM
I didn't say there were no places like that. I DID say "I doubt you'll see many". NYC is certainly one, and Chicago could qualify, but I struggle to think of others.

Well, this thread was started concerning the NYC meet next year.  We've had meets before in places with the typical toll amount, and the solution at these times was to either have drivers eat the cost (happened in NJ meets where the turnpike/parkway was part of the tour) or to avoid the toll road altogether.  Shunpiking is a tradition in NJ meets (unless the toll road itself is part of the tour), for example.

I dispute the latter part of your statement. We had one exit on the Parkway at my Central NJ meet, and though I gave a shunpike alternate route, I don't think anyone followed it. Hardly a tradition, especially given the lack of NJ meets so far, and I don't know of a second one. (Keep in mind that the Delaware River meets are exploring the interesting bridges, which happen to be untolled.)

Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2013, 01:03:47 PM

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 23, 2013, 09:06:43 AM
I didn't say there were no places like that. I DID say "I doubt you'll see many". NYC is certainly one, and Chicago could qualify, but I struggle to think of others.

Well, this thread was started concerning the NYC meet next year.  We've had meets before in places with the typical toll amount, and the solution at these times was to either have drivers eat the cost (happened in NJ meets where the turnpike/parkway was part of the tour) or to avoid the toll road altogether.  Shunpiking is a tradition in NJ meets (unless the toll road itself is part of the tour), for example.

Right. My point is, I can't come up with MANY areas where tolls might amount to that $48/car total. NYC and Chicago are the two that come to mind with all the toll roads in and near those cities. By the way, I have actually been to NYC, though it was in 2002, we didn't cross the Verrazano but the Lincoln Tunnel, and then we exited via (if I recall correctly) the Manhattan Bridge to I-278 to I-87 North to the Thruway so we could get to Niagara Falls. 

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 24, 2013, 12:31:30 AM

Quote from: vdeane on September 23, 2013, 01:03:47 PM

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 23, 2013, 09:06:43 AM
I didn't say there were no places like that. I DID say "I doubt you'll see many". NYC is certainly one, and Chicago could qualify, but I struggle to think of others.

Well, this thread was started concerning the NYC meet next year.  We've had meets before in places with the typical toll amount, and the solution at these times was to either have drivers eat the cost (happened in NJ meets where the turnpike/parkway was part of the tour) or to avoid the toll road altogether.  Shunpiking is a tradition in NJ meets (unless the toll road itself is part of the tour), for example.

Right. My point is, I can't come up with MANY areas where tolls might amount to that $48/car total. NYC and Chicago are the two that come to mind with all the toll roads in and near those cities. By the way, I have actually been to NYC, though it was in 2002, we didn't cross the Verrazano but the Lincoln Tunnel, and then we exited via (if I recall correctly) the Manhattan Bridge to I-278 to I-87 North to the Thruway so we could get to Niagara Falls. 

You'll never really get close to a $48/car total around Chicago for tolls unless you go really nuts driving every tollway and the Skyway without an I-Pass (EZ-Pass).  And that would be way too much driving for a road meet.

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 24, 2013, 12:31:30 AMBy the way, I have actually been to NYC, though it was in 2002

And the tolls back then were about/at least half of what they are now.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 24, 2013, 09:20:15 AM

Quote from: JMoses24 on September 24, 2013, 12:31:30 AMBy the way, I have actually been to NYC, though it was in 2002

And the tolls back then were about/at least half of what they are now.

When I started driving, it had gone up from $6 to $8. We're at $13 now.

I remember the PANYNJ tolls being $4 back in the 1990s.
Of course, that was before they needed money to cover the massive cost overruns for rebuilding the World Trade Center.

I remember the MTA tolls being $2 each way.
And likewise, that was before they needed money to pay service on all the debt they took on back in the 90s, cover labor and construction costs which have risen faster than inflation, and all the while face shrinking revenue from the state because Albany keeps raiding their funds.

I remember shelling out $7 for the one-way cash toll (Staten Island-bound) on the Verrazano (an MTA facility) in early Nov. 2000.

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 25, 2013, 08:09:30 AM
I remember shelling out $7 for the one-way cash toll (Staten Island-bound) on the Verrazano (an MTA facility) in early Nov. 2000.

And it's more than double that now.

I would be willing to request a couple more MTA transponders from my NY account if needed for the meet (I purchased an MTA tag from a cash toll lane on an MTA crossing, and once your account is registered to MTA, all future tags issued will be MTA ones).