OK, all those who didn't know this, raise your hands. :pan: And, since it's not road related, but more driving related, it ends up in Off Topic.
From ABC News:
My Credit Card Charges Me an Extra $50 Whenever I Buy Gas. What Gives?QuoteMy problem is with credit or debit cards holding money beyond the purchase price for gas.
My friends and I have been discussing this practice. If you use a credit card or debit card at a gas station, the card holds an extra $50 until it clears. It's not on the gas receipt, but if you check your account online it shows, for two or three days.
Is this practice legal? Can they do it without notifying the consumer that it is happening?
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/7v)
Hmmm...my cards only "charge" me $1 when I swipe for fuel - then they remove it a few hours later. I guess it's to check if the card is not over the limit.
The problem occurs when you try to pump gas more than twice a day on the same card. You basically have to call and tell them it's okay; but I just use my other card, instead of waiting for 10 minutes until it clears.
I quit going to Exxon locations in my area because of the over-authorizations. I had a couple of subsequent purchases decline because of it. No one else I've been to since does it.
Now my hotel, on the other hand, will try for $20 extra authorization from guests for each night of stay, and I *always* get calls, "why is my bill so much?", "how much did y'all charge me??", that kind of thing. The $20 extra/night at our hotel is for possible incidental charges (local/long-distance phone calls, Market purchases, meals in the Bistro). Usually, it's those who use debit that have the most issue with it. We get fussed at by some who think a sign should be available at the desk to explain the difference between what happens to their debit vs. their credit cards during/after check-ins; but, management won't let us have one at the desk.
I had the same problem when I worked at a hotel with $25 a day holds. I always told people at check in what the policy was when they tried to use a debit card, and oftentimes they'd switch to a credit card.
With online banking, there's really no reason to ever swipe a debit card, and it should be avoided just so you aren't tying up actual money with holds (also if there is a charge dispute/whatever, it's a lot better to have it tied up on a credit card you don't have to pay until the dispute is settled, unlike a debit where the merchant actually takes your money in the erroneous charge and then you have to fight to get it back). Get a credit card, use it as if it were your debit card, and pay your balance in full every month. Especially if your credit card is through the same bank as your checking account it's so easy to pay the bill- the four minutes a month or so I spend pushing three buttons is absolutely worth the insurance of knowing that my money isn't going to get tied up in things I didn't buy.
Plus, good for your credit score and if you do that for a while and you're paying off in full every month, your limit should pretty quickly reach the point where pre-authorizations aren't a concern at all. I usually use about 20% of my available credit on my highest limit card in any given month, so I don't need to worry about it. I was in Canada a couple weeks ago and noticed that up there they pre-authed my card $100 every time I went to buy gas, so I had like $800 in authorizations that eventually fell off, but since it was a credit card and not my actual money and my limit is high enough because I pay in full every month and don't use much of the credit I have, it was a non concern.
QuoteThe problem occurs when you try to pump gas more than twice a day on the same card. You basically have to call and tell them it's okay; but I just use my other card, instead of waiting for 10 minutes until it clears.
Weird, I've never had that problem.
At most gas stations, there's a sticker on the pump that states exactly the holding procedures for the credit/debit cards....even in NJ, where technically the driver would never approach the gas pump. And of course it's not on the gas receipt - it's a 'hold', not a purchase.
Quote
QuoteThe problem occurs when you try to pump gas more than twice a day on the same card. You basically have to call and tell them it's okay; but I just use my other card, instead of waiting for 10 minutes until it clears.
Weird, I've never had that problem.
I did...and that probably explains what happened. It was on my last road trip. I had used the card the entire trip without incident. At one station, I realized I was fueling up with the wrong grade (after purchasing the mid-grade 87 octane gas in the higher elevations, I accidently started pumping mid-grade 89 gas, rather than going back down to the regular 87 octane). I stopped the pump and went to restart the pump using the same credit card. Since that was going to be the 3rd or so time I was purchasing gas in the same day, it must've declined the card for that reason.
I didn't know that at the time though. I called the CC company to see if there was any issues on the card, and the rep said there wasn't anything noted.
Quote from: corco on September 11, 2013, 02:20:22 PMGet a credit card, use it as if it were your debit card, and pay your balance in full every month.
indeed. using a debit card is silly.
but not nearly one-fiftieth as silly as carrying a credit card balance. if you put the purchase on the card,
you've spent the money.
I wouldn't go as far as 1/50th...at least with a credit card, you have certain protections not offered on a debit card. At the very least, if something goes wrong, at least you aren't out the money until the bank puts it back.
But yeah...unless there's some emergency, no reason to carry a balance.
Quote from: corco on September 11, 2013, 02:20:22 PM
Weird, I've never had that problem.
Must be my credit card's protection policy: It catches me out if I fuel up both my car, the wife's car, and one of our cars a second time that day. So, maybe once/twice a year; we'd check the balance online or by phone, and that's how we discovered the mystery $1 charges - they'd never appear on the bill, and the receipts would match upon reconciliation.
I've kept a credit card balance exactly once in the past twelve years; I think the interest was around $22. Otherwise, all zeros each month.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 11, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
I wouldn't go as far as 1/50th...at least with a credit card, you have certain protections not offered on a debit card. At the very least, if something goes wrong, at least you aren't out the money until the bank puts it back.
But yeah...unless there's some emergency, no reason to carry a balance.
I think you misparsed what I wrote. a credit card is a better option universally - except it gives foolish people the room to abuse it, at which point the credit card companies make their money and eat you alive with interest.
I use a debit card instead of a credit card. My problem is that I don't have an extensive credit history, so the only credit card my bank would offer me requires a security payment, has a stupidly low limit, an annual fee, and a ludicrously high interest rate. Considering I'd be paying it off in full every month, I don't care about the interest rate, but for the rest of it, they can shove that card up their ass as far as I'm concerned. I'll just stick with my debit card.
Quote from: algorerhythms on September 11, 2013, 07:36:39 PM
I use a debit card instead of a credit card. My problem is that I don't have an extensive credit history, so the only credit card my bank would offer me requires a security payment, has a stupidly low limit, an annual fee, and a ludicrously high interest rate. Considering I'd be paying it off in full every month, I don't care about the interest rate, but for the rest of it, they can shove that card up their ass as far as I'm concerned. I'll just stick with my debit card.
You might consider a pre-paid credit card.
Quote from: algorerhythms on September 11, 2013, 07:36:39 PM
I use a debit card instead of a credit card. My problem is that I don't have an extensive credit history, so the only credit card my bank would offer me requires a security payment, has a stupidly low limit, an annual fee, and a ludicrously high interest rate. Considering I'd be paying it off in full every month, I don't care about the interest rate, but for the rest of it, they can shove that card up their ass as far as I'm concerned. I'll just stick with my debit card.
gotta start somewhere. my first credit limit was $300. I think I put about $250 on it every month - not the greatest from a percentage-of-available-debt perspective, but the consistent repayment allowed me to bump it up gradually. I was at $3300 by the time I graduated college.
You may also consider using a third party credit card vendor like CapitalOne, which issued my girlfriend with a card when she was 18 and had zero credit history.
There is one reason that running a credit card balance would be a sound decision, albeit not one that most people would need to make–if you are purchasing product for a business and your profit will cover the interest, it might be a good decision to purchase it on credit and pay it off once you have sold it. Of course there is the risk that you will not find a buyer. For larger purchases a bank loan would be a better way to do that, though.
I worked for a credit card company for 5 years... much of that as not a manager... i worked on the escalation team. Gas charges are very risky. The companies have programs and logarithms that look for fraud. a thief will check to see if a card is valid by swiping a card and then go on a spending spree. There are anaylists that review reports and if they see that you buy a tank of gas in Jacksonville fl and then in Florence, SC and then Fredericksburg VA with a charge at a Holiday Inn it would be obvious you are on a trip. But 2 or 3 full tanks of gas in the same city is odd. Your previous history is alos taken into account. If you travel every week for business lots of hotel, restaurant and gas stations it fits your pattern. But your 85 y/o grandma who only has QVC charges may get a hold if there are suddenly gas stations and strip clubs. Going into the store and presenting the card will not set off the security systems as quickly. In theory the clerk has seen the card and checked your ID. Clone cards can be used in pay at the pumps too
An authorization is just a check to make sure the account is open and it reserves the funds on the card. With most charges the autorization matches the charge. The charge will "post" to your account usually the next business day. in most cases we dont notice because the amount is the same. When you charge a meal at a restauarant the autoization is for the amount before tip. The charge that posts if for the total after tip( of course if you leave cash they match). You notitce things like this when you rent a car or pay for a hotel. They put a hold on your account just in case you make a charge. Even if you pay cash at the end. Rental cars usually hold 250 even if you get the 19.99 dal for a one day rental. If you have a big credit line or multiple cards not an issue but if you are near your limit or living paycheck to paycheck it can fuck things up
One trick that you can use to your advantage. If you have $2/avaiable and need a tank of gas. Most issuers only authorize a dollar. So if you have at least $1 available you can turn on the pump and put in a full tank. the charge will post later for the full amount. You will probably get an overlimit fee so it will cost at least $29.. so make the most of it
Debit cards if you do not use the PIN go through the credit card authorization system. They are just like any other visa or MC, most banks will treat it just like another credit card charge(you can dispute etc). If you use the PIN it is an electronic transfer more or less. You dont have the dispute rights. Merchants would rather you use your PIN because they have to pay a 3%-7% fee for each credit card transaction. When the PIN is used there is not a fee ( or less of one). That is why govt agencys charge a "convenience fee" but really we all pay it in increased costs. But the merchant doent have to wait for checks to clear, worry about bounced checks, have lots of cash on hand and customer service
My old boss did something similar once for a down payment on a house. He took out a cash advance, used a cash advance from another card to pay the first before it left the no-interest grace period, and then paid the second cash advance off when the old house finally sold.
Quote from: algorerhythms on September 11, 2013, 07:36:39 PM
I use a debit card instead of a credit card. My problem is that I don't have an extensive credit history, so the only credit card my bank would offer me requires a security payment, has a stupidly low limit, an annual fee, and a ludicrously high interest rate. Considering I'd be paying it off in full every month, I don't care about the interest rate, but for the rest of it, they can shove that card up their ass as far as I'm concerned. I'll just stick with my debit card.
When I got my HSBC credit card (since transferred to First Niagara when HSBC left NY), they had no problem giving me a no annual fee, $1000 limit card. This was back in 2009, though. They didn't care as much about credit history back then. Neither HSBC or First Niagara has ever offered a limit increase though, and the limit I got on my Discover card back in June isn't much higher, and I've paid both in full every month. I don't know what gives.
Yeah, in 2006 I got my first card when I turned 18- US Bank (my regular bank) gave me a no annual fee card with a $500 credit limit. I still have the card, but the credit limit is a heck of a lot higher. I don't use it very often because the rewards aren't very good.
My parents didn't have to cosign it, but my mom was a secondary on my checking account at the time so maybe that helped.
Quote from: corco on September 11, 2013, 02:20:22 PM
Get a credit card, use it as if it were your debit card, and pay your balance in full every month.
This. Not only is it safer, smart use of cashback and point programs can result in 1-5% of your spending coming back to you. Credit card companies actually pay you to use their cards!
Pay off the balance each month, or at least be smart about carrying a balance.
Quote from: jwolfer on September 11, 2013, 09:58:44 PM
One trick that you can use to your advantage. If you have $2/avaiable and need a tank of gas. Most issuers only authorize a dollar. So if you have at least $1 available you can turn on the pump and put in a full tank. the charge will post later for the full amount. You will probably get an overlimit fee so it will cost at least $29.. so make the most of it
Unfortunately, not all gas stations will only preauth for $1. I've discovered a few (including Wawa) will preauth for much more... in the case of Wawa, I've found them to preauth for $125. It doesn't affect me because I have more than enough credit, but for someone with a low credit line, it would mean they're not getting gas, even if they only needed $20 worth of fuel.
If you can at all manage to get a credit card, get one. Treat it like cash... but use it instead of your debit card. It's gotten better over the last few years, but you still are way better protected using a credit card than you are a debit card.
Quote from: realjd on September 12, 2013, 04:26:08 PM
This. Not only is it safer, smart use of cashback and point programs can result in 1-5% of your spending coming back to you. Credit card companies actually pay you to use their cards!
Although, it should be noted that some credit cards are bringing back annual fees; especially the airline-sponsored cards (although some of the perks "pay for themselves", depending on how you view the value of their fees).
Quote from: formulanone on September 12, 2013, 04:53:23 PM
Quote from: realjd on September 12, 2013, 04:26:08 PM
This. Not only is it safer, smart use of cashback and point programs can result in 1-5% of your spending coming back to you. Credit card companies actually pay you to use their cards!
Although, it should be noted that some credit cards are bringing back annual fees; especially the airline-sponsored cards (although some of the perks "pay for themselves", depending on how you view the value of their fees).
my 2% card is $59/year. so it pays itself back after $2950, which I spend in well less than a year.
My parents made me a cosigner on their credit card when I was 15 (with the understanding, of course, that abusing that privilege would result in it being revoked). While I was still their dependent it was a convenient way to cover my expenses without needing to give me cash or transfer money or anything. Today I am still a signer on that card but I almost never use it since now I also have my own and am supporting myself.
The amusing/awesome part is the implication this has for my credit score, since I have my parents' 30 years of flawless credit history on my record in addition to my own. If you look at my credit report it says my oldest credit account is older than I am. :sombrero:
My card has no fees and has a limit much higher than I ever need, but I do still have one gripe with it: the rewards program sucks to the point of being basically unusable. I am unable to "pay with points" for anything in full. Every deal I have access to through the rewards program is merely a large discount, I still have to pay out of pocket for at least half the cost. It's clever from a business perspective, since it's a win-win for the credit card company. If you use the rewards program, it encourages you to spend more money and they collect more in merchant fees (possibly also interest if you're a numbnut who carries a balance). If you don't use it, then they don't have to help pay for anything. The latter option has particular implications for people like me who might jump for something he wouldn't otherwise buy if it were effectively free, but not if it's only effectively half off.
They do have the option to reserve hotel rooms through the rewards program, which would be more useful than buying random junk through it... but their "discounted" prices are often basically the same as what you get from hotels.com. Furthermore, the one time I attempted to use that service I ended up getting charged for the room twice because the dumb hotel clerk didn't know how to handle the prepaid reservation from the program - I was able to fix this with a phone call to the credit card company, but I shouldn't have had to do that.
I got a Discover Card after I turned 18. I charge it up almost continually, but always make sure I have the money in my checking account so I never have to worry about carrying a balance. They still won't ever let me have a higher credit limit than $500 though.
I've gotten a fair bit in rewards from it to, which makes me happy, considering it's free.
Annoyingly, I have to be picky about where I buy gas on it though. 7-Eleven, for example, puts a $300 hold on, even though their limit for credit card purchases is $75 (per the sticker on the pump), meaning it basically has to be the only thing I have on my card at the time. After the first time I did this and got my card subsequently declined the rest of the day (was on a roadtrip), I called Discover and they instantly asked me if it was a 7-Eleven. Apparently they always do that with Discover.
You know where it ends, yo, it usually depends on where you start.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on September 13, 2013, 07:56:14 PM
I got a Discover Card
Just out of curiosity, what inspires a person to get a Discover card instead of a Visa or Mastercard?
Quote from: corco on September 13, 2013, 09:08:16 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on September 13, 2013, 07:56:14 PM
I got a Discover Card
Just out of curiosity, what inspires a person to get a Discover card instead of a Visa or Mastercard?
Cashback bonus.
If https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/cashback-bonus/cashback-calendar.html is what you're talking about then okay wow, yeah, that would do it. I want a Discover card now.
Quote from: corco on September 13, 2013, 11:26:41 PM
If https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/cashback-bonus/cashback-calendar.html is what you're talking about then okay wow, yeah, that would do it. I want a Discover card now.
That's it exactly. I actually was getting spammed with junk mail from them, and decided to actually look at it one day. Saw that I get cash back (the amount varies by what you buy - certain categories or retailers get cashback varying from 1%-20%), and there's no fee or anything, so I figured why not.
You can also (for a nominal fee), write checks from your credit card, and starting this month also set up a full free checking account.
Now I'm starting to sound like an advertisement for them...
In my case, my parents like Discover, and I was also getting lots of junk mail from them. I've since signed up for the junk mail opt out though (yes, it works).
I'm unoriginal and unadventurous. I just use the same bank and credit card company my parents have always used for no other reason than because of that familiarity. Don't mess with a formula that works, I say.
The problem with Discover is that acceptance of it is not universal. American Express also has this problem to a lesser degree (it's the "third" company while Discover is the "fourth").
Quote from: Duke87 on September 14, 2013, 01:16:14 AM
I'm unoriginal and unadventurous. I just use the same bank and credit card company my parents have always used for no other reason than because of that familiarity. Don't mess with a formula that works, I say.
The problem with Discover is that acceptance of it is not universal. American Express also has this problem to a lesser degree (it's the "third" company while Discover is the "fourth").
Discover has higher processing fees (so they afford the "cash back" bonus without hurting the CEO's bonus), as does AMEX. AMEX also charges a $5 monthly "subscription fee" for the privilege of accepting their card.
I refuse to accept AMEX at my shows, but will grudgingly accept Discover (though most of my customers have Visa or MasterCard)
Quote from: Duke87 on September 14, 2013, 01:16:14 AM
The problem with Discover is that acceptance of it is not universal. American Express also has this problem to a lesser degree (it's the "third" company while Discover is the "fourth").
It sounds like the ideal thing to do if you are going to have a Discover card is to also carry a Visa/Mastercard debit card to pick up any charges in places that do not accept Discover.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 14, 2013, 02:24:24 PM
It sounds like the ideal thing to do if you are going to have a Discover card is to also carry a Visa/Mastercard debit card to pick up any charges in places that do not accept Discover.
Or you can carry one of each... Visa, Mastercard, Discover, and Amex. Overboard, I know, but useful should you find that yourself in a situation. I remember a situation from when I was a kid. Back then my parents only had one credit card (because, why would you need more than one?). We went on vacation, rented a car, and apparently the rental place put a rather large hold on the card, so much so that we found it getting declined everywhere (restaurants, in particular). Luckily my mom had her ATM card (don't think debit cards existed back then), so we just paid cash for everything. It's a nasty surprise to get while you're on vacation, so ever since, they've always carried more than one card, and I've done the same. Free credit cards are pretty easy to get these days, even if you only have fair to average credit... so long as you're the type who can control your behavior and not spend more than you have.
Right, I have three credit cards right now-- my first US Bank Visa that I got in 06, a Wyndham Rewards Visa I got in '10, and a Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa I got this year.
At this point, I charge nearly everything to the Chase, except I still charge Wyndham hotel stays to the Wyndham and I keep my renter's insurance on the US Bank card just so it stays active. But with those three cards still being active, I can stay on top of the rewards game and I have a ton of available credit, which helps my credit score and I've got backups in case I'm traveling and something gets declined due to merchant miscommunication/suspected fraud or whatever.
The Chase one is weird, since it has an annual fee (it picks up rewards like crazy though, more than pays for itself, and no foreign transaction fee). I'll probably have to drop it to a no annual fee version when I decide to get a fresh primary card in a few years. But given the way FICO scores work, I don't see a reason to ever cancel a credit card.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 14, 2013, 01:16:14 AM
I'm unoriginal and unadventurous. I just use the same bank and credit card company my parents have always used for no other reason than because of that familiarity. Don't mess with a formula that works, I say.
The problem with Discover is that acceptance of it is not universal. American Express also has this problem to a lesser degree (it's the "third" company while Discover is the "fourth").
I can't remember ever running into a place that accepts credit cards, just not Discover. When I was a kid I remember seeing places that just had a Visa and Mastercard sticker on the door, but since I got my Discover card I've found it to be accepted essentially everywhere.
I also have my Mastercard bank card that I can use as a backup though, so it doesn't really matter.
My parents used to have trouble, but that was when I was 5. Many of the places that were an issue before aren't now.