On a road where both sides are 2 or more lanes, and there is a traffic light that is there because of only one side of the road, here is an idea:
The side that doesn't have the street or business can have the right lane continue, ignoring the traffic light. If someone on the street wants to turn left, he can go onto the left lane of the road.
Example where this could happen (with business) here (http://goo.gl/maps/GsoXy). The business is on the left, so the right side would have the right lane continue freely.
This isn't exactly a new idea. Most important roads do it to minimize stopping.
Example (http://goo.gl/maps/rEMPZ)
Notice the entire northbound side doesn't have to stop at all, just left turning traffic.
Quote from: kj3400 on September 13, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
Most
I've never seen this before in my life, and I've been at several intersections.
It happens.
They also tried a straight on red experiment in Illinois. Apparently it failed. (Searching turns up a recent law allowing you to go straight if the detector loop is borked, which is not what was in the report I read.)
Quote from: corco on September 13, 2013, 08:47:31 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on September 13, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
Most
I've never seen this before in my life, and I've been at several intersections.
Ok, some. Maryland must just be one of those states. Also seen it in Virginia and Colorado.
I've seen those in a couple intersections in WI and GA.
Also seen in KY, OH and WV.
New Jersey has at least one that comes to mind.
We visited one of these at the Richmond meet last year (where the white-border VA 197 shields are).
Florida has/had several intersections like this.
Here's something similar, though it breaks full movement: http://goo.gl/maps/o5Xqu
Actually, isn't this idea similar to a superstreet?
Quote from: akotchi on September 13, 2013, 10:06:00 PM
New Jersey has at least one that comes to mind.
Several here, but used to be more. Chestnut St. in Union used to do it between the Parkway and 22, but was modified into a standard signal. Walker Rd. at CR 508/Northfield Rd. in West Orange was also modified to a standard signal. For a current example, US 1 south of I-278 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.636395,-74.233825&spn=0.002141,0.004517&t=k&z=18). Note that of these three examples, both Chestnut and US 1 still have a traffic light there, to allow pedestrians to cross if there's any demand (unlikely in the latter, plausible in the former).
QuoteActually, isn't this idea similar to a superstreet?
The superstreet, as NCDOT envisioned it, would have the median closed at the side street intersection, with all left/cross turns being done at a median crossing downstream. The superstreet is closer in concept to a streamlined Michigan Left than it is to this.
Your "innovation" is actually pretty old and has been applied already to multiple areas.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6020%2F5992209883_3f647fe150_z.jpg&hash=adf3ab85e12aae1076afe3a83a5a8879a4300565)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2Fsignal.png&hash=2d94b80d98ea4134c93566e7f0fcef0571fefa0b)
http://goo.gl/maps/qOFCm
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 14, 2013, 03:24:57 AM
Your "innovation" is actually pretty old and has been applied already to multiple areas.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6020%2F5992209883_3f647fe150_z.jpg&hash=adf3ab85e12aae1076afe3a83a5a8879a4300565)
False, you have to stop on the far side for entering traffic.
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2013, 08:33:19 PM
On a road where both sides are 2 or more lanes, and there is a traffic light that is there because of only one side of the road, here is an idea:
The side that doesn't have the street or business can have the right lane continue, ignoring the traffic light. If someone on the street wants to turn left, he can go onto the left lane of the road.
As has been mentioned, this is not a new concept. There are few of these types on intersections in Nevada.
I've heard these referred to as "High-T Intersections".
Here's one in Springfield, Virginia. The two signals for thru traffic consist solely of permanent green arrows. This seems like a place where a flashing yellow arrow might be ideal for the left turn.
http://goo.gl/maps/hhoOG
Can't say that I've seen many examples in PA. In fact, the only one coming to mind at the moment is US-220 @ PA-287 near Jersey Shore
http://goo.gl/maps/CHk1b (http://goo.gl/maps/CHk1b)
I think the first place I consciously noticed this set up is just outside of Morgantown on US-19/WV-7
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Star+City,+WV&hl=en&ll=39.647113,-79.977502&spn=0.003709,0.005681&sll=41.218767,-77.221978&sspn=0.001281,0.00284&t=h&hnear=Star+City,+Monongalia,+West+Virginia&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.647274,-79.977726&panoid=dxkaS0T8Ng3wMrcd9IN9gA&cbp=12,146.88,,0,11.47 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Star+City,+WV&hl=en&ll=39.647113,-79.977502&spn=0.003709,0.005681&sll=41.218767,-77.221978&sspn=0.001281,0.00284&t=h&hnear=Star+City,+Monongalia,+West+Virginia&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.647274,-79.977726&panoid=dxkaS0T8Ng3wMrcd9IN9gA&cbp=12,146.88,,0,11.47)
I think this one most closely exemplifies (though maybe not entirely) the OP's idea, as this case has one of two "straight ahead" lanes subject to a possible RED signal, while the other is free-flowing. (Note: I'm not really sure why the signal over the Straight-Only lane has dual-top-signal heads)
The difference between several examples posted in this thread (1995hoo's, for example), and what I think the OP was getting at is that these examples involve onramps or one way roads, where traffic is only turning left off the main artery, rather than both turning off of and onto it.
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2013, 08:33:19 PM
On a road where both sides are 2 or more lanes, and there is a traffic light that is there because of only one side of the road, here is an idea:
The side that doesn't have the street or business can have the right lane continue, ignoring the traffic light. If someone on the street wants to turn left, he can go onto the left lane of the road.
Some Nevada examples that I think fit with what you're describing:
- Lake Mead Blvd & Best in the West shopping center driveway in Las Vegas. (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=36.195979,-115.240153&spn=0.000365,0.00142&sll=36.189193,-115.30423&sspn=0.006434,0.011362&mra=mr&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=36.195918,-115.240779&panoid=SX9ynRkRnQ3SFhjustM_RA&cbp=11,102.06,,0,0.08) Lake Mead has three through lanes eastbound. The right two lanes are separated from the left turn lane and a left through lane by a small median. The right two lanes receive a constant green (louvered, so not visible from other lanes) and do not stop.
- Cheyenne Ave & Hualapai Way in Las Vegas. (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=36.21825,-115.315904&spn=0.000729,0.00284&sll=36.189193,-115.30423&sspn=0.006434,0.011362&mra=mr&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=36.218255,-115.316241&panoid=oCHkM7M5OdZsa74dbNxxaQ&cbp=11,82.39,,0,-2.21) Cheyenne eastbound has three through lanes. The right lane is separated by a really narrow median and receives a constant green. The left two through lanes are subject to stopped traffic, as there are two left turn lanes coming in from Hualapai. This warning sign assembly (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=36.218265,-115.318358&spn=0.000729,0.00284&sll=36.189193,-115.30423&sspn=0.006434,0.011362&mra=mr&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=36.218264,-115.318359&panoid=qFiDDaFYqROcFtiq15B7Gw&cbp=12,143.15,,2,-3.14) informs drivers of the lane layout. This is one of the four intersections out of five total signalized intersections along this segment of Cheyenne Avenue with this arrangement--this makes it so eastbound drivers may only stop at a red light maybe once in about 2.5 miles if they are in the right lane.
- US 395 at Johnson Lane, between Carson City & Minden. (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.026635,-119.7801&spn=0.001404,0.005681&sll=36.189193,-115.30423&sspn=0.006434,0.011362&mra=mr&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.027194,-119.779958&panoid=kLnIHLSdeWL8SdK01-icng&cbp=11,176.23,,0,-3.23) This is a more rural example on a divided highway. US 395 is divided in this stretch with two lanes each way and a high speed limit (I *think* it's either 55 or 70), but Johnson Lane is a simple two-laner. At this intersection, a left turn pocket opens up for SB turns to Johnson Lane, and an island separates the turning traffic from the through traffic so that SB traffic doesn't stop (no signals indications over these lanes). Traffic turning onto SB US 395 from Johnson Lane has an acceleration lane that allow vehicles to attain highway speeds before merging into the highway traffic. There are a couple other similar intersections along this stretch of US 395.
I think the thing that makes these examples work is that there is a clear divider between lanes that are signal controlled and lanes that do not stop at the signal. If this were not present, there would be confusion between the lanes and the concept wouldn't be as effective.
They've done this to the slight reconfiguration of WI-794 and Oklahoma Ave http://goo.gl/maps/so2j4 (look at 45 degree mode to see it, turn that off to see the previous configuration).
Also where WI-145 turns into a freeway http://goo.gl/maps/rpzox
Quote from: Steve on September 14, 2013, 03:43:40 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 14, 2013, 03:24:57 AM
Your "innovation" is actually pretty old and has been applied already to multiple areas.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6020%2F5992209883_3f647fe150_z.jpg&hash=adf3ab85e12aae1076afe3a83a5a8879a4300565)
False, you have to stop on the far side for entering traffic.
No, you don't...
top light on thru signals is a yellow ball for flash mode. Other than that, they are always green. Entering traffic can only turn right.
These are very common in VA and MD. There are too many examples to list, just of ones I've seen.
Here's the other side. Doesn't look "always green" to me.
http://goo.gl/maps/HNUFq
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on September 14, 2013, 11:51:40 PM
The difference between several examples posted in this thread (1995hoo's, for example), and what I think the OP was getting at is that these examples involve onramps or one way roads, where traffic is only turning left off the main artery, rather than both turning off of and onto it.
Maybe, but that's not what he said, no matter how many times I re-read it.
There are no one-way streets involved. The side road is ending at the main road, though.
Not exactly what the OP was referring to, but somewhat similar. It's a good design, but idiot drivers make it fail on occasion though: http://goo.gl/maps/zyDVG
The main road is Quakerbridge Rd. The lane to the right is the end of the ramp from US 1 South to Quakerbridge Rd. Designed so that traffic doesn't have to stop at the intersection. But yet, there's the occasional motorist on the ramp that'll strain to look at the light and will stop on the ramp anyway, even though there's clearly no reason to stop.
Quote from: 1 on September 15, 2013, 06:38:30 PM
There are no one-way streets involved. The side road is ending at the main road, though.
Please don't change the topic line to something inane. It messes with the topic.
Quote from: Steve on September 15, 2013, 07:58:00 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 15, 2013, 06:38:30 PM
There are no one-way streets involved. The side road is ending at the main road, though.
Please don't change the topic line to something inane. It messes with the topic.
If he wants to keep cars moving at a penguin, just put #87 out there and people will floor it to rid the league of that scourge!
Not a penguin, but maybe a seagull: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_intersection
Quote from: vdeane on September 15, 2013, 12:04:33 PM
Here's the other side. Doesn't look "always green" to me.
http://goo.gl/maps/HNUFq
The "other side" is a separate intersection a 1/4 mile away...not a good comparison...
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 14, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Star+City,+WV&hl=en&ll=39.647113,-79.977502&spn=0.003709,0.005681&sll=41.218767,-77.221978&sspn=0.001281,0.00284&t=h&hnear=Star+City,+Monongalia,+West+Virginia&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.647274,-79.977726&panoid=dxkaS0T8Ng3wMrcd9IN9gA&cbp=12,146.88,,0,11.47 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Star+City,+WV&hl=en&ll=39.647113,-79.977502&spn=0.003709,0.005681&sll=41.218767,-77.221978&sspn=0.001281,0.00284&t=h&hnear=Star+City,+Monongalia,+West+Virginia&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.647274,-79.977726&panoid=dxkaS0T8Ng3wMrcd9IN9gA&cbp=12,146.88,,0,11.47)
I think this one most closely exemplifies (though maybe not entirely) the OP's idea, as this case has one of two "straight ahead" lanes subject to a possible RED signal, while the other is free-flowing. (Note: I'm not really sure why the signal over the Straight-Only lane has dual-top-signal heads)
Yes, this is the first one posted that actually fits.
Here's a sign that shows even more clearly what's going on: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.721416,-81.319111&spn=0.003618,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=28.721483,-81.318924&panoid=ryCbZ9DCVKPErr-TtLamXQ&cbp=12,108.6,,2,2.6&z=18
Why limit it to traffic lights? (http://goo.gl/maps/qt2Qm)
Quote from: NE2 on September 16, 2013, 03:33:39 AM
Yes, this is the first one posted that actually fits.
Here's a sign that shows even more clearly what's going on: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.721416,-81.319111&spn=0.003618,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=28.721483,-81.318924&panoid=ryCbZ9DCVKPErr-TtLamXQ&cbp=12,108.6,,2,2.6&z=18
I'm pretty sure mine fit too, and it was the first one.
Quote from: kj3400 on September 16, 2013, 11:31:27 PM
I'm pretty sure mine fit too, and it was the first one.
Nope. Yours doesn't have either northbound lane stopping.
Then I suppose I don't know of any in my state. That was my only ace.
Near Burlington, WA on WA-20. This is an expressway, and not an urban arterial, but it still applies: https://maps.google.com/?ll=48.446145,-122.431576&spn=0.003156,0.008106&t=h&z=18
Same highway, a little farther west: https://maps.google.com/?ll=48.463457,-122.581088&spn=0.003155,0.008106&t=h&z=18
Not quite the same, but similar, at Eagle Rd. and I-84 in Meridian, ID. The freeway ramp, which is still on the same pavement as the through route, passes the stoplight. Turning left off the other ramp onto Eagle Rd. and seeing cars zooming by in that lane at 50 MPH can feel a bit weird (first time, my dad thought someone was running the red), but it works well: https://maps.google.com/?ll=43.592735,-116.354047&spn=0.002437,0.004053&t=h&z=19
You guys. He's talking about where the left straight lane does have to stop, but the right straight lane can bypass the light.
If that's really what he's talking about, there's one on-base on Naval Station Mayport, FL.
Quote from: NE2 on September 18, 2013, 02:33:40 AM
You guys. He's talking about where the left straight lane does have to stop, but the right straight lane can bypass the light.
That seems to be the correct interpretation of the OP, but that's a pretty poor innovation, as I don't see any advantage to still requiring one (but only one) of the thru lanes to stop.
It's not an operational advantage, but there is one small advantage: this could be used in scenarios where right-of-way is limited enough to preclude building separate decel/accel lanes for the turning movements. It can also be retrofitted onto intersections on existing multilane streets/roads without significant construction. But again, as you imply, there isn't really an operational advantage to this.
That I thought of, and it's a valid point. But I'm curious if that design is significantly advantageous as opposed to simply converting the thru lane subject to stopping to a left turn only lane. That is, if there's no room for an added accel/decel lane, then just convert one.
It's not quite the same, but this intersection near Fort Myers Beach regulates the two "beach-bound" lanes separately. They both do get red lights, though.
Quote from: realjd on July 11, 2013, 12:41:59 PM
....
If you really want to talk about unusual signal uses, check out this intersection from Fort Myers that has a separate pair of signal heads for each lane:
http://goo.gl/maps/90TYk
EDIT: Fixed link for Fort Myers signal. The old link pointed in the wrong direction.
The point of the design is to control the traffic on the approach to the bridge up ahead, where it narrows to a single lane.
(I am the OP.)
Even if the left lane doesn't have to stop, it's okay. I didn't realize that was possible.
10 minutes later
This picture (http://goo.gl/maps/B4z8y) has the left lane stopping (to turn) and only the left lane.
Yay, my example is valid again.
Quote from: kj3400 on September 19, 2013, 08:16:35 AM
Yay, my example is valid again.
Mine as well. I find it amusing that other posters felt the need to tell us what the OP supposedly meant and that our examples were wrong.
Your examples were wrong.
We didn't see this on the Ashland meet tour, but I think here is an example of what the OP is talking about on northbound US 23 in Russell.
http://goo.gl/maps/abB1H
When the side-street is a 2-way street, the signal would most likely require 3-phases:
-phase for drivers turning left from major arterial onto the side-street.
-phase for drivers turning left from side-street onto the major arterial.
-phase for thru arterial traffic (for the direction that is required to stop).
A superstreet design would cut it down to a simple 2-phase signal. However, with a superstreet the side-street traffic would no longer be allowed to make a direct left onto the arterial so pick your poison. Neither design is perfect. The OP's design makes a lot more sense when the side-street is only one direction. This leads to the best of both worlds.... a simple and efficient 2-phase traffic signal and all movements are made directly at the intersection (no traffic movements rerouted).
Here's one that does fit the criterion: US-1 and Nova Road (FL-5A) (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.298844,-81.082385&spn=0.006222,0.011362&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=29.298958,-81.08464&panoid=Ey30mI2Px-lCo2HaT0PosA&cbp=12,282.96,,0,3.19) north of Ormond Beach, Florida.
Here's one on US 1 South @ I-95/MA-128, Peabody.
http://goo.gl/maps/z3bga
Locally known as the "jughandle lights" due to the jughandle turn on the NB side.
Quote from: mass_citizen on October 02, 2013, 01:30:12 AM
Here's one on US 1 South @ I-95/MA-128, Peabody.
http://goo.gl/maps/z3bga
Locally known as the "jughandle lights" due to the jughandle turn on the NB side.
The real reason that permanent arrow exists on US 1 southbound is because, from 1974 to 1989, when the I-95/128 "Task A" interchange at Centennial Drive was finally completed, the section of US 1 through the jughandle also carried Interstate 95 traffic and, thus, was considered a "temporary" part of I-95 at the time. Providing a "full time" green right arrow for the movement to I-95 SB not only improved traffic flow, but it also elimnated the confilct with the commonly accepted design standard against providing traffic signals on Interstate highways.
source - personal conservation with now long-retired MassDPW engineer in the late 1980s
Quote from: kj3400 on September 13, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
This isn't exactly a new idea. Most important roads do it to minimize stopping.
Example (http://goo.gl/maps/rEMPZ)
Notice the entire northbound side doesn't have to stop at all, just left turning traffic.
Though your example has been the scene of more than a few wrecks on the southbound (signaled) side, not because of the design, but largely because it is the only signal left on U.S. 29 (functional class expressway) between I-70 and Blackburn Road in Montgomery County.
Quote from: mass_citizen on October 02, 2013, 01:30:12 AM
Here's one on US 1 South @ I-95/MA-128, Peabody.
http://goo.gl/maps/z3bga
Locally known as the "jughandle lights" due to the jughandle turn on the NB side.
I went to the main view to see the layout there...and then zoomed out...and moved south...and I think my head exploded looking at the entirety of that interchange.
Dear lord.
It's a double trumpet. With braiding. And local access. And more local access.
Quote from: NE2 on October 03, 2013, 10:06:07 AM
It's a double trumpet. With braiding. And local access. And more local access.
Let's not forget the traffic circle!
some of that local access seems iffy. it seems that, to take the jughandle and go slightly right of straight, i.e. to access that business just barely upstream of being immediately opposite of the light, is doable but not recommended.
Guess this is the most appropriate place for this.
Look what I stumbled upon in Streetview: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.526076,-80.671642&spn=0.011104,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.526199,-80.676052&panoid=tWRL7B1BlIenwRHbf5WuOg&cbp=12,317.32,,1,1.5
A signal ahead sign for a case where the right lane does not have to stop, but the left lane and turn lane do. It's on a federally-maintained road at Kennedy Space Center in FL - NASA Pkwy westbound at the turn for the Visitor Center. Anyone seen this before?
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 21, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
Guess this is the most appropriate place for this.
Look what I stumbled upon in Streetview: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.526076,-80.671642&spn=0.011104,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.526199,-80.676052&panoid=tWRL7B1BlIenwRHbf5WuOg&cbp=12,317.32,,1,1.5
A signal ahead sign for a case where the right lane does not have to stop, but the left lane and turn lane do. It's on a federally-maintained road at Kennedy Space Center in FL - NASA Pkwy westbound at the turn for the Visitor Center. Anyone seen this before?
Hey, anyone ever seen that when you drop the little man on that road, he turns into an astronaut?! WHEEE!
...or a skier on/near the right bits of VT108.
And now, ME9 "west" at the I-295 Exit 3 offramp. (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=04106&aq=&sll=42.571575,-71.109744&sspn=0.002311,0.004823&vpsrc=6&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=South+Portland,+Maine+04106&ll=43.632309,-70.3128&spn=0.00205,0.009645&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.632311,-70.312798&panoid=UTZnwhXRvRSKTgCXT5Vm9Q&cbp=11,166.23,,0,0)
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 21, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
Guess this is the most appropriate place for this.
Look what I stumbled upon in Streetview: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.526076,-80.671642&spn=0.011104,0.021136&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.526199,-80.676052&panoid=tWRL7B1BlIenwRHbf5WuOg&cbp=12,317.32,,1,1.5
A signal ahead sign for a case where the right lane does not have to stop, but the left lane and turn lane do. It's on a federally-maintained road at Kennedy Space Center in FL - NASA Pkwy westbound at the turn for the Visitor Center. Anyone seen this before?
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's FL-405; anyway, this is a farily...I wouldn't say "common", but when this sort of arrangement is used in Florida, this is the standard arrangement for it, as in the US-1/Nova Road in Ormond Beach example I posted earlier.
Quote from: Aerobird on October 31, 2013, 01:06:06 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's FL-405
Nope. SR 405 begins just before the US 1 interchange, near the adopt a highway sign and the pavement change.
Anyway, I've never seen a signal ahead sign like that, and I've been through about 8 of these intersections all around central Florida.
Ah, The More You Know!
I want to say I've seen "Signal Ahead" signs like that somewhere before, but I can't quite place it in my memory. It is a pretty nifty sign though.
With regard to the intersection at NASA, or similarly situated intersections.
Is there any reason why anyone would drive in the left thru lane? Just keep right and merge back after the intersection.
Quote from: mrsman on November 03, 2013, 07:43:18 AM
With regard to the intersection at NASA, or similarly situated intersections.
Is there any reason why anyone would drive in the left thru lane? Just keep right and merge back after the intersection.
Because the right lane is in use? This intersection probably has heavy directional traffic during rush hours.
Going by what the OP stated and NOT the examples that most people have posted, how would you prevent traffic that is bypassing then light headed straight from crossing into one of the lanes that traffic from the side street would be turning into and vice versa. I don't understand how this could exist without being a large safety risk. The only solution that I can think of would be to place a barrier between the bypassing lanes and the turning traffic and in that case you would be better off having turning traffic turn into dedicated lane that merges in and letting all lanes of the main street continue.
Quote from: mrsman on November 03, 2013, 07:43:18 AM
With regard to the intersection at NASA, or similarly situated intersections.
Is there any reason why anyone would drive in the left thru lane? Just keep right and merge back after the intersection.
Probably the same reason why some people will use EZ Pass in a traditional toll booth lane, slowing down to 15 mph, rather than using the Express EZ Pass lanes where they can continue at their normal highway speed.
I don't know what the specific reasons are, other than they don't pay attention to the signs. Maybe some simply don't get it, and they sit there at the red light and while why all the cars using the bypass lane aren't stopping. Maybe these are the people that scored the minimum on their drivers test, failing questions like "What does a red, 8 sided sign with the letters "S", "T", "O", & "P" mean?"
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on November 04, 2013, 03:20:48 PM
Going by what the OP stated and NOT the examples that most people have posted, how would you prevent traffic that is bypassing then light headed straight from crossing into one of the lanes that traffic from the side street would be turning into and vice versa. I don't understand how this could exist without being a large safety risk. The only solution that I can think of would be to place a barrier between the bypassing lanes and the turning traffic
That's exactly what is done in the real world examples given. For example: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.721416,-81.319111&spn=0.003618,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=28.721483,-81.318924&panoid=ryCbZ9DCVKPErr-TtLamXQ&cbp=12,108.6,,2,2.6&z=18
^^^ There's no physical barrier preventing a driver turning left from General Hutchinson Pkwy from crossing into the right most lane of US 17 when making their turn (US 17 is posted at 50 MPH). I can picture how a driver unfamiliar with the area may cross into the right most lane assuming ALL lanes of traffic on US 17 has a red light (a median sign and a hatched out lane line isn't enough to prevent this potentially dangerous maneuver, IMO).
I'm all about keeping cars moving, but that intersection looks dangerous.
I found a safety analysis: http://www.trforum.org/journal/downloads/2011v50n1_01_SafetyAnalysis.pdf
Maybe someone who cares more can extract the relevant information.
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 03:38:15 PM
That's exactly what is done in the real world examples given. For example: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.721416,-81.319111&spn=0.003618,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=28.721483,-81.318924&panoid=ryCbZ9DCVKPErr-TtLamXQ&cbp=12,108.6,,2,2.6&z=18
That looks like it could be extremely dangerous from an outsiders POV. As someone above stated, there's nothing keeping turning traffic out of the far right lane. Honestly, what is the point in even having the left lane there if it's not going to bypass the intersection with its counterpart. If that was where I live you would have a crapload of people changing lanes and jumping over as soon as the light hits yellow. Another thing that I found confusing, probably because of how it's done where I'm from, was having 5 signals hanging over 3 lanes on the same post.
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on November 04, 2013, 06:07:23 PM
As someone above stated, there's nothing keeping turning traffic out of the far right lane.
There's a double white line with 1-2 feet between, and a dashed line to the right of the left turn movement indicating which lane you must turn into.
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 06:20:35 PM
There's a double white line with 1-2 feet between, and a dashed line to the right of the left turn movement indicating which lane you must turn into.
I'm well aware of that. My question is, what keeps me from crossing that double white line by accident or just because...? It would be different if people actually followed rules.
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on November 04, 2013, 06:26:56 PM
I'm well aware of that. My question is, what keeps me from crossing that double white line by accident or just because...? It would be different if people actually followed rules.
What keeps you from running a red? Freemasons, I think.
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 08:23:50 PM
What keeps you from running a red? Freemasons, I think.
...probably, combined with the fact that I don't want to die or see a camera flash in my rearview.
Lmao, I'm done. :clap:
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on November 04, 2013, 06:07:23 PM
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 03:38:15 PM
That's exactly what is done in the real world examples given. For example: http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.721416,-81.319111&spn=0.003618,0.007086&t=h&layer=c&cbll=28.721483,-81.318924&panoid=ryCbZ9DCVKPErr-TtLamXQ&cbp=12,108.6,,2,2.6&z=18
That looks like it could be extremely dangerous from an outsiders POV. As someone above stated, there's nothing keeping turning traffic out of the far right lane. Honestly, what is the point in even having the left lane there if it's not going to bypass the intersection with its counterpart. If that was where I live you would have a crapload of people changing lanes and jumping over as soon as the light hits yellow. Another thing that I found confusing, probably because of how it's done where I'm from, was having 5 signals hanging over 3 lanes on the same post.
For a long time the intersection at Cahuenga and Odin near the Hollywood Bowl had a similar configuation. 2 lanes of northbound Cahuenga were continuous, the left lane from Odin became a left lane for Cahuenga (3 lanes north of the intersection). THe right lane from Odin became the right lane of Cahuenga. And only southbound Cauhenga saw a stop sign. A fast but dangerous intersection. Fortunately, the city changed this light to a more traditional signaled intersection.
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2013, 08:33:19 PM
On a road where both sides are 2 or more lanes, and there is a traffic light that is there because of only one side of the road, here is an idea:
The side that doesn't have the street or business can have the right lane continue, ignoring the traffic light. If someone on the street wants to turn left, he can go onto the left lane of the road.
Example where this could happen (with business) here (http://goo.gl/maps/GsoXy). The business is on the left, so the right side would have the right lane continue freely.
I encountered two configurations like the one seen in this video last Friday on US-1 just north of central Melbourne in Florida (the one seen here is the second of the two). They seem to fit what the OP had in mind. Note the white sign on the right side of the road saying the two right lanes have a continuous green. The road runs pretty much right along the Indian River through this area, so there's not much on the right side of the road.
Click thumbnail to play video.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FDashcam%2520videos%2Fth_Continuousgreenlight_zpscf5ce4dc.jpg&hash=ddb8d5096d562fe16efc00ee952574c9fc1e4c1e) (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/1995hoo/Dashcam%20videos/Continuousgreenlight_zpscf5ce4dc.mp4)
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 05, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2013, 08:33:19 PM
On a road where both sides are 2 or more lanes, and there is a traffic light that is there because of only one side of the road, here is an idea:
The side that doesn't have the street or business can have the right lane continue, ignoring the traffic light. If someone on the street wants to turn left, he can go onto the left lane of the road.
Example where this could happen (with business) here (http://goo.gl/maps/GsoXy). The business is on the left, so the right side would have the right lane continue freely.
I encountered two configurations like the one seen in this video last Friday on US-1 just north of central Melbourne in Florida (the one seen here is the second of the two). They seem to fit what the OP had in mind. Note the white sign on the right side of the road saying the two right lanes have a continuous green. The road runs pretty much right along the Indian River through this area, so there's not much on the right side of the road.
Click thumbnail to play video.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FDashcam%2520videos%2Fth_Continuousgreenlight_zpscf5ce4dc.jpg&hash=ddb8d5096d562fe16efc00ee952574c9fc1e4c1e) (http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/1995hoo/Dashcam%20videos/Continuousgreenlight_zpscf5ce4dc.mp4)
The Indian River is the only reason the right lanes have a continuous green. We have a number of them here in Brevard County:
* US1 at NASA Blvd (SR518)
* US1 at Cherry Lane
* US1 at Port Malabar Blvd
* US1 at Malabar Road (SR514)
* SRA1A at Pineda Cswy (SR404)
There are a few locations that otherwise seem like great candidates for the continuous green lights but aren't configured that way due to crosswalks. US1 at Palm Bay Road comes to mind.
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: UptownRoadGeek on November 04, 2013, 06:07:23 PM
As someone above stated, there's nothing keeping turning traffic out of the far right lane.
There's a double white line with 1-2 feet between, and a dashed line to the right of the left turn movement indicating which lane you must turn into.
Here's a streetview image of a continuous green through lane (CGTL) intersection in Jacksonville, Florida. The grey SUV could easily overlook the faded double white line and cross into the continuous green lanes.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi478.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr144%2Ftradephoric%2FTransportation%2520Pictures%2FRandom%2FFloridaCGTLs_zps09c6e1e3.jpg&hash=051ccb582ff96b5dc63cfdde304cfecd0cb26024) (http://s478.photobucket.com/user/tradephoric/media/Transportation%20Pictures/Random/FloridaCGTLs_zps09c6e1e3.jpg.html)
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 05:38:57 PM
I found a safety analysis: http://www.trforum.org/journal/downloads/2011v50n1_01_SafetyAnalysis.pdf
Maybe someone who cares more can extract the relevant information.
According to the study, public opposition in Jacksonville has resulted in the removal of several CGTLs as "citizens feel the intersections are not safe, especially for motorists unfamiliar with their design." The results of the study found a "significant difference between the proportions of sideswipe crashes in the CGTL direction compared with the opposite direction." To improve safety, the researchers suggest adding "highly visible raised separators, in lieu of double white lines and raised rounded domes [to] create a distinct separation between the continuous through traffic and the adjacent lanes" .
Adding raised separators could significantly improve safety and public perception of the design. Here's an example of raised separators at a CGTL intersection:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6470711,-79.9773931,3a,90y,102.49h,74.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDDbMKPCXK3ZQnced-4PrWQ!2e0
Quote from: tradephoric on September 28, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Here's a streetview image of a continuous green through lane (CGTL) intersection in Jacksonville, Florida. The grey SUV could easily overlook the faded double white line and cross into the continuous green lanes.
<snipped image>
Quote from: NE2 on November 04, 2013, 05:38:57 PM
I found a safety analysis: http://www.trforum.org/journal/downloads/2011v50n1_01_SafetyAnalysis.pdf
Maybe someone who cares more can extract the relevant information.
According to the study, public opposition in Jacksonville has resulted in the removal of several CGTLs as "citizens feel the intersections are not safe, especially for motorists unfamiliar with their design." The results of the study found a "significant difference between the proportions of sideswipe crashes in the CGTL direction compared with the opposite direction." To improve safety, the researchers suggest adding "highly visible raised separators, in lieu of double white lines and raised rounded domes [to] create a distinct separation between the continuous through traffic and the adjacent lanes" .
Adding raised separators could significantly improve safety and public perception of the design. Here's an example of raised separators at a CGTL intersection:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6470711,-79.9773931,3a,90y,102.49h,74.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDDbMKPCXK3ZQnced-4PrWQ!2e0
I would have to agree on the public perception of the CGTL if there is not a physical barrier. From a driver expectation viewpoint, if you're unfamiliar with the intersection and coming from the side road with a green light, you will likely be confused why cars are still going through on the main road--especially if you can't see the double white lines.
Nevada has a few of these intersections (we call them "Hi-T" intersections). Where implemented, there is typically a narrow concrete median and raised delineators separating the continuous through lanes. (See my post on page 1 of this thread for examples)
Here's a streetview image of US1 & Cherry Street near Melbourne, Florida. It looks like a conventional T-intersection. How are drivers on the side-street suppose to know there are continuous green lanes on the main street?
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.099863,-80.61306,3a,75y,83.05h,81.85t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snpEm_i1XgJ0izBW98p6LzA!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1959152,-115.2402639,3a,75y,65.18h,69.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHD1P_wnMOqTYBFxlyXJbBw!2e0?hl=en
Hey roadfro. In this example, the continuous green lanes have a standard 3-section signal head. Do the two right most lanes rest in green unless if a pedestrian actuates the pusbhutton?
The Nevada examples, that include a physical barrier, look a lot safer than the Florida examples with no barrier.
Quote from: tradephoric on September 30, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1959152,-115.2402639,3a,75y,65.18h,69.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHD1P_wnMOqTYBFxlyXJbBw!2e0?hl=en
Hey roadfro. In this example, the continuous green lanes have a standard 3-section signal head. Do the two right most lanes rest in green unless if a pedestrian actuates the pusbhutton?
The Nevada examples, that include a physical barrier, look a lot safer than the Florida examples with no barrier.
Although that example is near the house I grew up in, I've never seen a pedestrian cross there. I would make the assumption that the right two lanes do rest in green unless a pedestrian presses the button.
This is a continuous green-t (i.e. seagull intersection) near where I grew up in South Hill, Washington (near Puyallup, south of Seattle). There's a POI directly after the traffic merges into the mainline so lots of people have to rush over to the right immediately. I suppose the intersection seems then, poorly designed. But I can assure you, it flows very well (all things considered).
(pardon my unnecessary expletives)