This may explain some of the decline in miles driven.
Study: Teens can't afford to drive (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131024/AUTO01/310240049/Study-Teens-can-t-afford-drive?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs)
QuoteA new study blames high teenage unemployment and the rising costs of driving for the decline in younger people getting driver licenses – not texting, cellphones and lack of interest.
Quote"It looks like teens just can't afford to drive," said Matt Moore, vice president of the insurance industry-funded group. "Paying for their own cars, gas and insurance is hard if they can't find a job. At the same time, kids who count on Mom and Dad to help them also may be out of luck if their parents have been affected by the recession."
The study showed states with higher teen unemployment rates had fewer insured young drivers, Moore said.
good. keep the "don't enjoy driving for its own sake" crowd off the roads.
This is extremely true to me. I didn't get a job until a week ago, and it's only part time. I'm currently saving up for a car because not having my own sucks. I think it's just cruel irony that I enjoy driving more than all my other friends and they have cars. Fuck them. :banghead:
How about waiting until your 18 in California because there are less strings and restrictions in getting your license then when you are 16 and 17?
Was true for me, but rare in the 80s. No family car and had to earn up to buy the car/insurance/upkeep myself unlike most teen. Was taught a lot more responsibility that way too when i got my license at 21.
Part of the problem is that additional cell phone bill. If I'm a teenager and I have to outlay $100/month plus just to be able to practically communicate with my friends, it becomes mighty difficult to save up for that beater pickup.
This is another example of that urban/rural split. In urban America, you've got access to alternate transportation facilities and a need to have a smartphone since all your friends do and they expect to communicate over that medium, so it's clear where monetary priorities should be. In rural America, the car becomes more important since it's basically required to survive, and the phone becomes secondary since that's just fancy new technology.
Where I live right now a lot of the kids don't have cell phones at all, let alone smartphones. Those kids have a limited amount of money and a choice between waking up at 4:30 AM for the 30 mile school bus ride with a smartphone that only sometimes works and not having the smartphone but having an old pickup they can use to get to school and up into the mountains to drink on weekends. In an urban surrounding, the opposite would hold.
$100/month to be able to practically communicate with your friends? that seems ... excessive.
I suppose you just have to figure out what your priorities are. I'll bet if you had a car, your peers would not consider you to be some kind of "lame-o" because, instead of being instantly responsive on the facebooks, you're likely to say "hey let's fucking go somewhere and do something".
and if your friends would rather be stuck behind their cell phones, then you need higher-quality friends. wait 'til college, I suppose.
Is it typical for teens to have to pay for their own cellphones? I didn't start picking up that bill until after I finished college and got a full time job. Before that it was paid by my parents. Same for everyone else in my generation in my family.
And yeah, $100/month is a lot. You can easily find a plan for half that.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2013, 08:50:44 PM
Is it typical for teens to have to pay for their own cellphones? I didn't start picking up that bill until after I finished college and got a full time job. Before that it was paid by my parents. Same for everyone else in my generation in my family.
And yeah, $100/month is a lot. You can easily find a plan for half that.
From prior conversations it sounds like you come from some money, though. Didn't your parents pay for your car too? I know a lot of folks that are entirely on the hook for both- I've been mostly fortunate on the car front (when I went to college I did have to give my parents car I used in high school to my sister and bought my own shiny 1990 Dodge Colt for $600, but my uncle died a year later and willed his car to me) but I've always had to pay my cell phone bill.
I also, and i haven't joined the smartphone generation yet, feel like it's a lot pricier than it was when we were in high school. Back then it was $30 for the basic cellphone bill and at the end I had to spring for unlimited texting for another $10 because people kept texting me. I feel like high school kids these days with smartphones need to have a really good data plan in order to instafacetwitterchat all day, but I admit I could be wrong on that.
My plan is a orders of magnitude less than $100/month, but then again, my plan is to pay Mom the amount it costs her and Dad to keep me on the family phone plan. It's a LOT cheaper to add a phone to a family plan to get your own even for the exact same service.
Man, times have certainly changed from when I was a teenager. I bought my first car (a 1969 Ford LTD w/a different colored hood & left front fender) for $300 in 1982. For insurance cost reasons, the car was registered under my father's name but I was listed as the primary driver.
I basically paid for the gas and maintenance and my father helped out w/the insurance; back then it was below $500/annually in MA. Thankfully, gas prices started leveling off and even began dropping during those years. Side bar: Many in 1979-1980 thought that gas would be anywhere from $3 to $5 per gallon by 1985 or 1990 at the latest.
To make phone calls away from home; we either just carried some extra change for pay phones or used our parents calling card number (usually it was the home/land line number plus 4-digits).
While I'm aware that it's a completely different era now, I still have to ask the following questions to the younger generation out there:
1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
2. For a car, do they really need to have the newest vehicle around with every little nick-nack feature in it? I viewed my first 3 vehicles that I paided only 3-digits for, even then, as simply transportation. It may not have been the newest, shiniest around nor have all the optional gadgets (my first 3 cars had no A/C nor power windows) but it got me to points A and B; although I did some of my early highway clinching in those vehicles. Older, put well-maintained, vehicles are likely cheaper to insure as well. Note: one of my active vehicles today is about 16 years old and just passed the PA safety & emissions inspection last week.
Doing the above can help alleviate some of those costs but I think the biggest money issues today that didn't exist as much when I grew up are the insurance rates/policies towards younger drivers and the still-p*ss-poor, real-world economy that's impacting their chances of getting a part-time job to finance the above-expenses.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.
I'd actually go the other way around on that, but I generally hate talking on the phone. "see you at 430" is a perfectly valid text.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
Man, times have certainly changed from when I was a teenager. I bought my first car (a 1969 Ford LTD w/a different colored hood & left front fender) for $300 in 1982. For insurance cost reasons, the car was registered under my father's name but I was listed as the primary driver.
....
Same here. My parents were adamant that I had to buy a car myself because they felt if I were financially invested in it I'd be more motivated to maintain it properly and I'd learn to care for cars for when I was out on my own without them to bail me out. My first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car. I later sold the Granada to my brother for $400 when he turned 16; at the same time, our father bought a new car for himself and sold me (yes, he required me to pay him for it, which I did in a lump-sum cash payment) his 1982 Accord to take with me to college.
My parents were also adamant that I had to maintain my grades in school at a minimum of a "B" average if I were to be allowed to drive because that was the threshold State Farm required to maintain the "Good Student Discount" on the insurance.
I was probably one of the exceptions at my high school in terms of having to buy my own car, though. There were a lot of newer-model Japanese cars there. Funny thing is, though, kids will make fun of each other about almost anything and you'd think driving a clunker would get you made fun of, but almost nobody made fun of me for having that lousy Granada except when the fan belts started squealing periodically. Kind of surprises me when I look back 20 years later that I was not made fun of, but then I wonder if there was a grudging respect in that almost none of the other kids could have handled that car's hideous four-on-the-floor because it was a very difficult transmission to shift properly (even the mechanic who did the state inspections couldn't shift it into reverse correctly and had to ask me to do it for him).
Regarding text messages–one reason I jealously guard my mobile phone number is because of people who think it's OK to send text messages without asking first. I don't have an unlimited text-message thing on my mobile plan because I don't use them. Verizon charges me something like 20¢ per message sent or received. They tried to get me to sign up for 250 messages per month for $5.00, but that's a waste of money because I've only topped $5.00 on a per-message basis one time. In a pinch it can be fine–last year during the derecho I was OK with my father sending me text messages to save his battery when their power was out (that was the month when I topped $5.00), and if I'm at a noisy place like a Caps game I agree it can be easier to communicate that way than by phone. But on the other hand, if I know the other person has a smartphone, I'd rather they just send me e-mail. It's free. Plus text-message users often write in cryptic gibberish fashion and I'm not willing to take the time to decipher their weird abbreviations. If you expect me to read something, you owe me the courtesy of making it legible. The big thing is, I don't appreciate the idea that someone else should feel entitled to run up my bill by sending me messages in a form I do not like and do not wish to use. My father started sending me text messages when he first got a smartphone and I had to tell him I'd block him if he didn't quit it (he did quit, at least, except in emergencies, and now he uses e-mail instead). Then you have the idiots who think they're entitled to some kind of timely response to a text message and they get pushy if you don't reply and send you three or four. I don't care what the idiot kids do these days–there is no excuse whatsoever for reading or writing text messages when you're driving, so if someone sends me any kind of message (text or e-mail) when I'm in the car, that person will be left waiting for a reply.
Teenage me got my first car in June 1973, a 1964 Rambler Classic, for $100. Title transfer was $2. Insurance through Farmer's was $90 for 6 months. A few dollars made for a full tank. There went my first paycheck of $200 from my summer job when I graduated! That was fun and it was cheap for a kid to get a car, keep it legal and filled up with gas.
Now if a kid wanted a decent beater that passes inspection, I'm figuring $2500. Title/tax/registration fees are all going to be higher than I had to deal with in Oregon so let's say an outlay of another $300. Then let's see what the insurance agent says. OMG! We're getting in the high 3 figure range! Tack on another $800 for half a year. Then fill that puppy up for another $50 or so. Total cost: $3650.
Now show me how many kids make $3650 in one month on a summer job? Oh sure, you might save a bit from those numbers but it is still going to be a whole lot more than kids make and even more than many adults make for take home pay in a month just to get that first car.
Computers, cellphones and video games are much cheaper and they're lots of fun. Where's the incentive for a kid to own a car? Besides, so many rigs are buttugly appliancemobiles. When I grew up we had tons of cool cars to make us drool! Not the case today...
It makes me sad.
Rick
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.
I'd actually go the other way around on that, but I generally hate talking on the phone. "see you at 430" is a perfectly valid text.
But
not while one's driving. Talking on a phone
usually doesn't involve taking one's eyes off the road while doing so while texting
does. I realize some will disagree w/me on the former but truckers have been doing so on their CB mikes for decades.
Quote from: nexus73 on October 25, 2013, 11:46:51 AMNow show me how many kids make $3650 in one month on a summer job?
You might want to make your last word
plural (jobs). Additionally, prior to getting a summer job, don't most teenagers either have a part-time job during the school year and/or get an allowance (of sorts) from their parents? While they may not be able to earn enough money in one month to buy a car; they can start setting (read
saving) money aside for it beforehand. Maybe
sacrifice getting that computer, Smartphone and/or video game and use the money saved towards a car.
Quote from: nexus73 on October 25, 2013, 11:46:51 AMWhere's the incentive for a kid to own a car?
Mobility & ubiquity. Not all regions have adequate mass transit systems covers where
and when people want to go.
Quote from: nexus73 on October 25, 2013, 11:46:51 AMBesides, so many rigs are buttugly appliancemobiles. When I grew up we had tons of cool cars to make us drool! Not the case today...
I agree with you on that one; but that's another topic for another day. But, again, what rule out there exists that
require a teenager to own a car younger than 5 to 10 years old?
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:49:14 AM
I'd actually go the other way around on that, but I generally hate talking on the phone. "see you at 430" is a perfectly valid text.
But
not while one's driving. Talking on a phone
usually doesn't involve taking one's eyes off the road while doing so while texting
does. I realize some will disagree w/me on the former but truckers have been doing so on their CB mikes for decades.
[/quote]
that's two completely different discussions wrapped into one.
actually, with my iphone, I don't trust myself to make a phone call, or even answer one, without having to look at the screen; the tactile feedback on touchscreen phones is pure shit. that's the main reason I gave up phone use while driving - I realized I just could never, ever get the hang of fiddling with it blind, as with the radio or the A/C controls or the whatever else that is actually a physical knob.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 11:53:19 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:49:14 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical.
I'd actually go the other way around on that, but I generally hate talking on the phone. "see you at 430" is a perfectly valid text.
But not while one's driving. Talking on a phone usually doesn't involve taking one's eyes off the road while doing so while texting does. I realize some will disagree w/me on the former but truckers have been doing so on their CB mikes for decades.
that's two completely different discussions wrapped into one.
actually, with my iphone, I don't trust myself to make a phone call, or even answer one, without having to look at the screen; the tactile feedback on touchscreen phones is pure shit. that's the main reason I gave up phone use while driving - I realized I just could never, ever get the hang of fiddling with it blind, as with the radio or the A/C controls or the whatever else that is actually a physical knob.
This is a major reason for handsfree devices. My Acura has a built-in Bluetooth system (trademarked name is HandsFree Link) that lets you voice-control a Bluetooth phone using buttons on the steering wheel; the call comes over the stereo speakers. My wife and I have noise-cancelling earpieces for use when we drive the other cars. I really see no excuse for someone who talks on a phone when driving not to have an earpiece, or at a bare minimum not to turn on the speakerphone and set the phone down somewhere. There are plenty of earpieces that give decent enough performance for relatively little cost (less expensive than our noise-cancelling units, which are outstanding earpieces but are from Bang & Olufsen, so they weren't cheap).
I really don't understand the people who drive along holding the phone out some distance away above the steering wheel with it on speaker. Just makes no sense to me to do that. If you have the speaker on, set the phone down. I also don't understand the people who are barely out of the driveway in the morning and are already yakking on the phone. If the call is that important, stay home and make the call there.
None of that is to suggest, though, that a handsfree device is the panacea some people portray it as being. It's not. Talking on the phone is still distracting if it's anything more than the most trivial and perfunctory of calls. I've long thought the reason is that, unlike the passenger in the car, the other person on the call can't see what you're seeing and react to it. When you're talking to a passenger, anyone will understand why you might break off if you're paying attention to something in particular on the road. The person on the phone may not and will likely start talking if you break off what you're saying. It's totally different from talking to a passenger.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 11:53:19 AMactually, with my iphone, I don't trust myself to make a phone call, or even answer one, without having to look at the screen; the tactile feedback on touchscreen phones is pure shit. that's the main reason I gave up phone use while driving - I realized I just could never, ever get the hang of fiddling with it blind, as with the radio or the A/C controls or the whatever else that is actually a physical knob.
No offense, but the above sounds more of a
personal issue here.
Let's be perfectly honest, do you
really need to have an iPhone or can you get by w/a standard cell phone w/a regular telephone keypad? IMHO, that would eliminate any touch-screen issues you have while calling right there; which is why I personally abhor these new touch-screen controls on cars but that's another topic for another thread.
While it's your decision and personal preference to have the phone that you have, which is fine, but one needs to take the advantages with the disadvantages here.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 12:08:46 PMThis is a major reason for handsfree devices. My Acura has a built-in Bluetooth system (trademarked name is HandsFree Link) that lets you voice-control a Bluetooth phone using buttons on the steering wheel; the call comes over the stereo speakers.
Do keep in mind that not all cars, especially older ones that teens will likely get as their first car, are equipped w/built-in Bluetooth systems.
Second & IIRC, some states don't even want/allow teenage drivers talking on
any phone device, handsfree or not while in motion.
My daughter, who is now a sophomore at UCLA, has a 1997 Chevy Cavalier, and she is on my policy. I make sure she does not use her phone while she's driving, and since she loves to talk and text, driving is what she does little of anyway.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
Let's be perfectly honest, do you really need to have an iPhone or can you get by w/a standard cell phone w/a regular telephone keypad? IMHO, that would eliminate any touch-screen issues you have while calling right there; which is why I personally abhor these new touch-screen controls on cars but that's another topic for another thread.
1) I make like 4 phone calls a month. "talking on the phone while driving" is, in my world, about as frequent as "identifying species of rare jellyfish while driving".
2) I do use the additional "smart" phone features all the time.
3) if I still had a phone with a keyboard, I'd very likely quit using it while driving, just with a 2-3 month lag.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
....
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 12:08:46 PMThis is a major reason for handsfree devices. My Acura has a built-in Bluetooth system (trademarked name is HandsFree Link) that lets you voice-control a Bluetooth phone using buttons on the steering wheel; the call comes over the stereo speakers.
Do keep in mind that not all cars, especially older ones that teens will likely get as their first car, are equipped w/built-in Bluetooth systems.
Second & IIRC, some states don't even want/allow teenage drivers talking on any phone device, handsfree or not while in motion.
No offense, but you engaged in a really selective quotation of what I said. Notice the rest of that paragraph talked about earpieces and speakerphones. Obviously I know most cars don't have built-in systems: Two of ours don't and that's why we have earpieces! I think my point stands: If you want to talk on a mobile phone in the car, there is no excuse for not using some sort of handsfree device.
Your comment about states banning kids from using any sort of mobile device, handsfree or not, is valid, although since we don't have kids I don't generally pay a lot of attention to those laws. I do notice that the kids I see driving seem to think those laws don't apply to them, as they all CONSTANTLY have a phone in one hand pretty much all the time (they're also prime culprits in the latest stupid fad of leaving three or four car lengths when stopped at a red light because they're so eager to start playing with their dopey phones....I'm always tempted to cut into one of those gaps).
Quote from: corco on October 24, 2013, 08:20:24 PM
This is another example of that urban/rural split. In urban America, you've got access to alternate transportation facilities and a need to have a smartphone since all your friends do and they expect to communicate over that medium, so it's clear where monetary priorities should be. In rural America, the car becomes more important since it's basically required to survive, and the phone becomes secondary since that's just fancy new technology.
It's not necessarily an urban/rural split. Here in Tulsa, a car is basically required to get around town. The bus system is terrible, and basically unusable.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 12:34:51 PM
My apologies. The primary purpose of my earlier comment where I quoted just your first sentence was an attempt (a poor one in retrospect) to keep the thread focused on teens & driving rather than car phone equipment in general (which most cars teens purchase won't have).
Side bar & this can qualify for the
"You're too old if your remember..." thread: early car phones were all of the handheld variety:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electronicfrog.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2Fcarphone.jpg&hash=a73675ec341c83f00ae6f6b339cc8d73ed5cbd9b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Felizabethatkinson.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2Fct1000.jpg&hash=f8525b32c56b320c12a2d600c1c96efa4013b148)
So handhelds were once the only way to go for decades for car phones; though the first pic clearly shows that the driver is stopped or parked. I've not yet seen hands-free CB mikes as of yet.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 12:34:51 PMYour comment about states banning kids from using any sort of mobile device, handsfree or not, is valid,
It's worth noting that there are some groups out there that want to extend such no phone use bans while driving to
all drivers not just teens. I know, another topic for another thread.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 12:34:51 PMI do notice that the kids I see driving seem to think those laws don't apply to them, as they all CONSTANTLY have a phone in one hand pretty much all the time (they're also prime culprits in the latest stupid fad of leaving three or four car lengths when stopped at a red light because they're so eager to start playing with their dopey phones....I'm always tempted to cut into one of those gaps).
Personally, I've not yet seen nor heard of that fad. Interesting.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
I'd actually go the other way around on that, but I generally hate talking on the phone. "see you at 430" is a perfectly valid text.
I don't like talking on the phone. I'd much rather text. There are no awkward silences during texting.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 11:40:51 AM
Same here. My parents were adamant that I had to buy a car myself because they felt if I were financially invested in it I'd be more motivated to maintain it properly and I'd learn to care for cars for when I was out on my own without them to bail me out. My first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car. I later sold the Granada to my brother for $400 when he turned 16; at the same time, our father bought a new car for himself and sold me (yes, he required me to pay him for it, which I did in a lump-sum cash payment) his 1982 Accord to take with me to college.
The Granada a "boat"? It was based on the compact Maverick, which was based on the compact Falcon. My mom had a '75 and while it would be considered a larger car today, it didn't feel big at all to me.
Quote1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
Quote from: bugo on October 25, 2013, 02:48:15 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 11:40:51 AMMy first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car.
The Granada a "boat"? It was based on the compact Maverick, which was based on the compact Falcon. My mom had a '75 and while it would be considered a larger car today, it didn't feel big at all to me.
I was tempted to make a similar comment earlier but held back. To me a
boat or
land yacht would be something like the full-size Ford LTD and maybe the mid-size Torino or the era... at least among Fords.
Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly. Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.
BTW, the wheelbase of the current Ford Fusion and Taurus are actually 2 and 2.5 inches
longer than the '75-'80 Granada.
Quote from: bugo on October 25, 2013, 02:48:15 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 11:40:51 AM
Same here. My parents were adamant that I had to buy a car myself because they felt if I were financially invested in it I'd be more motivated to maintain it properly and I'd learn to care for cars for when I was out on my own without them to bail me out. My first car was a 1977 Ford Granada I bought for $325 from a guy at my father's office I'd known since I was a kid. The car was a boat, but it (usually) ran, and in some ways it was a very good car for a 16-year-old because it didn't handle nearly as well as the Honda and Volvo sedans my parents drove and on which I'd learned to drive, and it was heavier and the brakes weren't as good. All that meant I had to drive a lot more carefully than I might have in a more modern car. I later sold the Granada to my brother for $400 when he turned 16; at the same time, our father bought a new car for himself and sold me (yes, he required me to pay him for it, which I did in a lump-sum cash payment) his 1982 Accord to take with me to college.
The Granada a "boat"? It was based on the compact Maverick, which was based on the compact Falcon. My mom had a '75 and while it would be considered a larger car today, it didn't feel big at all to me.
But as I said, I learned to drive in my parents' cars, a Honda and a Volvo. The Granada was a boat compared to either of those. It's all a case of what you're used to driving.
Heck, when the 1982 Accord met its demise in 1995 due to undercarriage rust, the car with which I replaced it was a 1986 Acura Legend and it felt really big to me after driving the Accord for several years, although it was probably smaller than the Granada.
I drove in high school, but not in college. Seattle is just not a good place for cars, and it takes less time to get to class and work via bike than car.
Besides, you can smoke a joint of weed (before it was legal) in front of a police precinct while stealing a homeless guy's pizza and Seattle PD probably wouldn't react, but if you park there past the 2 hour limit, you're fucked.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly. Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.
'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches
the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F002%2F110%2Flongcat.jpg%3F1241726484&hash=c42f9bc5208d392a325cac544b0b676dc6ef4aee)
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 03:15:19 PMHeck, when the 1982 Accord met its demise in 1995 due to undercarriage rust, the car with which I replaced it was a 1986 Acura Legend and it felt really big to me after driving the Accord for several years, although it was probably smaller than the Granada.
It was. For comparison purposes, the wheelbases of both the current Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are about 1/2" shorter than that of a '77 Granada.
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PMUnfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there.
I guess the question to be asked here is
how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch. Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need. But everything else is just fluff IMHO.
Having grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and
being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having. In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the
kids of plenty's parents but I digress.
Key words in below-quote shown in
Bold:
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PMIf a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?
It's a 2-way street.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 03:30:15 PM'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches
the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.
Not so fast. The 70s Lincoln I saw last night was a
4-door model (see photo below for example).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.cargurus.com%2Fimages%2Fsite%2F2008%2F05%2F29%2F23%2F32%2F1977_lincoln_continental-pic-53990.jpeg&hash=27d4832f7f475708d4641e68d61592df7d60666f)
And your listed dimensions are off.
The newer model I saw was the
standard length Town Car which is about 215". You posted the overall length of the extended-length L-series model (which featured wider rear doors).
The overall length of the '75-'79 Lincoln Continentals/Town Cars/Town Coupes is about 233". You posted the length of the '77-'79 Continental
Mark V coupe.
The listed dimensions are from actual Lincoln literature.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
Key words in below-quote shown in Bold:
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 03:15:19 PMIf a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions.
It's a 2-way street.
For what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 04:35:11 PMFor what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.
Accidental copy/paste error. It's been since corrected.
My apologies for that.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:38:06 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 04:35:11 PMFor what it's worth, the quotation there about choosing between the car and the phone is from corco, not from me.
Accidental copy/paste error. It's been since corrected.
No worries. The quoting can be tricky to manage, especially if you use a mobile device.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2013, 04:43:29 PMNo worries. The quoting can be tricky to manage, especially if you use a mobile device.
Nope, my boo-boo was made from either a Western Electric Princess phone w/rotary dial or a party line. :)
Seriously, the error was done on a PC and I was adding quotes from other users and forgot that the title containing your username was still being stored.
QuoteHaving grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having. In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the kids of plenty's parents but I digress.
Right, you realize that
now, but put yourself back in the shoes of a high schooler. Their brains often have very different priorities- they may be bad priorities, but that won't change how they choose to spend their money.
QuoteIf they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions.
It's a 2-way street.
Yeah that one boggles my mind, but they seem to figure it out. Once again, it's a situation where we can sit here as adults and try to analyze it, but we won't understand it- I'm only seven years out of high school and even I went to school in a very different time- kids these days just have different perspectives on life.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?
It's a 2-way street.
These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
Quote1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.
No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).
I didn't even have my driver's license until after I'd finished a year of college. My parents or my friends' parents gave me a ride to everywhere at home in Connecticut and at school I was in New York City so I just walked or took public transit everywhere. My parents did pay for my car (to answer corco's previous question), but that wasn't until I finished college. It was a college graduation present. Prior to that, no car.
As for my phone, while I consider it a necessity now as an adult, when I was younger I was much more of an antisocial stick in the mud, and if told I had to pay for my own phone I would have opted not to have one, and my parents would not have been OK with that since then they'd have no reliable way of contacting me - mind you, when I was in college I did not use facebook and did not regularly check my email. I also kept my phone off most of the time. I intentionally made myself difficult to contact, much to my parents' consternation. When I got my first cellphone, I never asked for it. It was my mother's idea to give me one and it was kind of forced upon me.
...of course, my teenage experience was atypical in so many ways.
Based on observation, I would say that a cell phone is essential these days. Not that I have much of any experience there. I'm incapable of being in any way typical. Many aspects of my identity are in direct conflict if you go by what is typical.
Quote from: vdeane on October 26, 2013, 03:54:26 PM
Based on observation, I would say that a cell phone is essential these days.
Cell phone, yes (given the disappearing pay phones over the last decade); Smartphones/iPhones, not necessarily.
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 25, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?
It's a 2-way street.
These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
Quote1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.
No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).
No offense, but had you included the previous paragraph in my earlier quote (reposted below):
QuoteI guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch. Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need. But everything else is just fluff IMHO.
you would have better seen the point I was trying to make regarding a teen's decision to by a Smartphone vs. a more economical cell phone. I'm not sure you're aware of it but you did a complete 180 and proved/supported my earlier point in your rebuttal to corco's post (which contained one of my earlier post that corco was responding to).
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 07:55:04 PM
QuoteHaving grown up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and being on the outside looking in w/the various cliques; I eventually realized that if someone judges you by what you have or posses, then they're not really your friends nor are they worth seeking/having. In many instances, a sizeable chunk of the blame for the above goes towards the kids of plenty's parents but I digress.
Right, you realize that now, but put yourself back in the shoes of a high schooler. Their brains often have very different priorities- they may be bad priorities, but that won't change how they choose to spend their money.
Yes and no. While their priorities may be more temporal/short-term than those of an adult; history has proven time and time again, if it's an item of interest that they
want, they're more likley to pursue such.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 28, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 25, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?
It's a 2-way street.
These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
Quote1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
I know plenty of kids who went for the car instead of the smartphone. It was far from impossible for them to stay in the loop. They have a phone and they have a laptop. No one "needs" to check facebook every 30 minutes. Most other apps are also covered by their laptop/they can get by without using.
No one where I went to high school ever got picked on/had repercussions from not being connected 24/7 (or being "poor" for that matter).
No offense, but had you included the previous paragraph in my earlier quote (reposted below):
QuoteI guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch. Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need. But everything else is just fluff IMHO.
you would have better seen the point I was trying to make regarding a teen's decision to by a Smartphone vs. a more economical cell phone. I'm not sure you're aware of it but you did a complete 180 and proved/supported my earlier point in your rebuttal to corco's post (which contained one of my earlier post that corco was responding to).
Those actually would have worked better as two separate posts. In the first post, I was stating a common practice that teens without a car do, from my perspective as a teen myself. If it works for them, it works for them. On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy with my car, and I do believe it's just as important (if not, more important) as being able to make calls. Or text if you're into that.
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 28, 2013, 09:19:23 AMIn the first post, I was stating a common practice that teens without a car do, from my perspective as a teen myself. If it works for them, it works for them.
Similar was the case even when I was a teen; I was usually one of that got asked for a lift/ride from time-to-time, even though my car was one of the oldest cars parked near the school and had a different colored hood & left front fender. Note: during my senior year, some of that was reduced because other students started getting cars of their own.
As far as biking around is concerend; growing up in New England, biking only made sense if the destination wasn't too far away, in the daytime and/or decent weather. Nobody biked anywhere during the wintertime.
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 28, 2013, 09:19:23 AMOn the other hand, I'm perfectly happy with my car, and I do believe it's just as important (if not, more important) as being able to make calls. Or text if you're into that.
No disagreement from me on that point.
Quote from: Molandfreak on October 25, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
If they need a vehicle because their parents' and/or older siblings' vehicles aren't available and they're not located in a major metropolitan region where mass transit is frequent & available (example: NYC); they'll rethink their decision IMHO. What good is being social-able if one can't get to any of the functions?
It's a 2-way street.
These kids get rides from someone else. Or they bike.
Yep. I came from rural suburbia, where in order to get almost anywhere in the first 16 years of your life, you had to be driven by someone else. I remember knowing people (teens and parents) with the attitude of "after 16 years, what's another 2 of being carted around by mom and dad?" I bought my car (with money in my savings - some actively saved up by me, some saved from birthday/christmas money gifts deposited by my parents when i was young) and paid for my gas, but my parents paid for my insurance. I had friends who were responsible for the whole bill, and they didn't drive because they couldn't afford it on a high school part time pay.
I got my license as soon as I could when I was 16 because I've always been incredibly wanderlusty. When I got my license 10 years ago, graduated licensing was just getting started. Now, there are a lot of restrictions where teens can't drive their friends in the car or past certain hours, which is pretty lame, imo. Half the fun of having my license was going places with my friends! I loved driving people around and going places. If I were a "typical" 16 year old today and I had a choice between car vs. smartphone, and I couldn't drive my friends around, it would make me reconsider getting a car. At least with the smartphone I could still keep up socially with friends with facebook/twitter/etc.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2013, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 25, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
Last night I saw a late model Lincoln Town Car (standard length) parked behind a '77-'79 Lincoln Continental along 5th Street in Philly. Talk about a major shock in terms of the size difference.
'77-'79 Continental: 230.3 inches
2011 Town Car: 221.4 inches
the '77 looks so much longer because it's a 2-door, so the trunk and hood get exaggerated length.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F002%2F110%2Flongcat.jpg%3F1241726484&hash=c42f9bc5208d392a325cac544b0b676dc6ef4aee)
Screw all that, I'm only just realizing those are 1990s DTM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Tourenwagen_Meisterschaft) cars in the Longcat photo. :)
Wow, when my generation were teenagers, a few kids had beepers. Nobody really had a cell phone, and it's not as if many adults had them either (a couple of car phones here and there, but that's it). Most kids I knew saved up for a car, but a few had everything they could ever need paid for, and there were others that just saved up for college instead, figuring a car would come later. I guess a bunch of us always wondered what was at the end of that road and the next one, and what it really looked like...so going places and having fun - really doing next to nothing for the hell of it - was part of being a teenager, but we also didn't want to waste our time hanging out at some shopping mall or a parking lot, bitching about nothing to do. Gas was cheap, and some of us actually had cars with decent fuel economy for our $1.05/gallon.
It's so much more expensive now, kids can't just get as many jobs as before, insurance is expensive in most urban/suburban places, for even a $500 car. Many states even increased the legal driving age by a year in the past two decades. I don't really think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, it's just the way things are going; my parents couldn't really afford nor need a car until they were about 20, they just borrowed their families' and friends' vehicles, because it was legal then.
Quote from: formulanone on October 29, 2013, 11:53:45 PMIt's so much more expensive now, kids can't just get as many jobs as before, insurance is expensive in most urban/suburban places, for even a $500 car. Many states even increased the legal driving age by a year in the past two decades. I don't really think it's necessarily a Bad Thing, it's just the way things are going;
Add to that the perpetual brainwashing (i.e.
the car is evil) that's molded/created an anti-car mindset among many (but certainly not all) of the younger generation (especially those in more urbanized areas) for roughly the last decade, possibly longer.
Key phrases in the below-quote are shown in
Bold for emphasis:
Quote from: formulanone on October 29, 2013, 11:53:45 PMmy parents couldn't really afford nor need a car until they were about 20, they just borrowed their families' and friends' vehicles, because it was legal then.
If it's not legal today; the above is not considered to be a viable option/alternative.
The car is evil.
I'm Goat.
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
Quote1. Do teenagers really need a smartphone that does everything in the book? IMHO, one that just does calls and, maybe, text messages would be more affordable & practical. Heck, I only got a cell phone 7 years ago because pay phones were just getting too scarce and my cell today is just a standard unit for calls and texts (no Smartphone).
Unfortunately, yes, I think so, at least for kids in middle class neighborhoods. It's more a societal pressure thing- if all their friends have a smartphone and expect to communicate by text/app, they're going to need to be able to do that to in order to maintain a healthy social life. That's really shitty and I hate that we're to that point, but I think we're there. If a kid as a limited amount of money and the choice between a car and a good phone to stay socially in the loop, I can see where they'd be inclined to pick the latter if they have alternate transportation options.
I resisted to the social pressure of getting a cell phone at all in high school. Then in college, smartphones became the trend and I had this old prepaid Samsung flip phone that I got used. I made it a point to not get a smartphone until I got a secure job. I got my current iPhone 3GS used for $20 about 1 year into my current job after graduating.
That didn't make me an outcast. A few friends were a little annoyed because they couldn't share cat videos with me
right now, but that's a non-issue.
Growing up in a small farm town (population 790), it was highly impractical not having a car while in college, so I got one about one year into college, after a lot of carpooling headaches. Moving to a dorm would have been more expensive than my excellent condition 1992 Honda Civic which I bought for $1,200 + the surprisingly small amount of gas and maintenance it required. A big chunk of my extended family lives in Montreal and kept telling me I didn't need a car. I think that they failed to realize that the closest bus stop was 9 km (5.5 mi) from home.
My mother refused to let me get my driver's license because she would have to insure me on her vehicle (at the time a '72 Coupe DeVille, this was in '75); at the time I understood that, I wanted the license so that if I did have the chance to get a car I'd be able to drive, but she wasn't hearing any of it.
Of course, this came back to bite me in the ass when I enlisted and got to my first duty station; when I was told that I would have to drive a government vehicle in order to perform my job and where was my license, I had to admit I didn't have one. You could have heard a pin drop in my section office that day, followed by a chorus of "YOU DON'T HAVE A LICENSE?" I remind my mother of that decision every time I see her in person. Thanks, Mom...you embarrassed me two years later!
So, needless to say, my first driver's license was a government driver's license (issued to me after I went to a class at Fort Bragg to drive their vehicles, including a 6x6 Gamma Goat [which I thought was neat]) and my first state driver's license was from North Carolina, upon which I bought my first beater ('72 Chevy Vega) for $600. Even then, the insurance rate for males under the age of 25 was ugly, even for beaters; when I bought my first new car years later ('87 Mustang GT 5.0, fresh off the lot) I was paying close to $1600/year for full coverage.
Which brings me to this remembrance: I was at a local insurance place to pay my monthly bill on the Mustang (this was about '88 or '89) and this woman comes in with her 14-year old daughter, she wants to put the kid on her insurance so that she could drive Mom's car. When she told the agent that she drove a Dodge Dynasty with all the trimmings, I knew what was coming; when the agent quoted her a price of $2200 the woman's jaw hit the floor. Meanwhile, I'm shaking my head and saying to myself fourteen year old driving a Dodge Dynasty? Oh, hell no! What was this woman thinking?
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 28, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
QuoteI guess the question to be asked here is how much or how many of those smartphone features are actually needed to accomplish/stay in touch. Phone & texting abilities, again I can see as a need. But everything else is just fluff IMHO.
you would have better seen the point I was trying to make regarding a teen's decision to by a Smartphone vs. a more economical cell phone.
Social status. I was a relatively late adopter of smartphones for someone my age - got my first Droid in August of 2011 at age 23, after having held onto my previous flip phone (which still worked!) for over five years. Before I went and did that, people would give me shit for having such an old beat-up phone. As nutty as it is, young people treat cellphones like fashion accessories and if you want to look sharp you need to always have the newest and most expensive model. Most of why I switched was so I could have the features of a smartphone (which I like having) and send text messages a lot more easily by having a keyboard instead of just a dialpad (which, I'm not kidding, noticeably opened up my social horizons). But simply looking more respectable was also noted as a benefit.
Anyways, point being, I can see where a 15 year old today might not consider an "economical phone" to be an acceptable option.
Quote from: DeaconG on November 01, 2013, 11:11:19 PMthis woman comes in with her 14-year old daughter, she wants to put the kid on her insurance so that she could drive Mom's car. When she told the agent that she drove a Dodge Dynasty with all the trimmings, I knew what was coming; when the agent quoted her a price of $2200 the woman's jaw hit the floor. Meanwhile, I'm shaking my head and saying to myself fourteen year old driving a Dodge Dynasty? Oh, hell no! What was this woman thinking?
I'm surprised that there are states that
still issue licenses to 14-year olds even then. Even when I got mine at 16-1/2 back in 1982; the youngest age elligible in some states (not MA where I got mine) was 15 (ME at the time).
With regards to insuring certain types of cars; insurance companies do indeed
profile vehicle types as well as the age of the driver. I knew of one agency in Rhode Island that only insured X number of pony cars like Mustangs and Camaros (regardless of which engine) per yer and that's it. A friend of mine's sister almost missed getting her '82 or '83 Camaro Berlinetta insured by said-company (that's how I know).
Had you went w/a new sedan like a Taurus or Crown Vic. rather than a Mustang; your insurance rate would've likely been lower. At the age of 22, the annual insurance rate (full coverage due to an auto loan) of my '85 Grand Marquis (bought in mid-1988) sedan was about $900/year in
Massachusetts. Only $300 more than basic coverage on my old '76 Ford LTD.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 02, 2013, 03:20:30 PMSocial status. I was a relatively late adopter of smartphones for someone my age - got my first Droid in August of 2011 at age 23, after having held onto my previous flip phone (which still worked!) for over five years. Before I went and did that, people would give me shit for having such an old beat-up phone. As nutty as it is, young people treat cellphones like fashion accessories and if you want to look sharp you need to always have the newest and most expensive model. Most of why I switched was so I could have the features of a smartphone (which I like having) and send text messages a lot more easily by having a keyboard instead of just a dialpad (which, I'm not kidding, noticeably opened up my social horizons). But simply looking more respectable was also noted as a benefit.
A few things here:
1. I'm well aware of the
fashion statement issue as such. That doesn't necessarily make it right. Back when I was in high school the same issue was regarding wearing certain type of sneakers even if one wasn't playing a particular sport; so the fashion statement
complex has existed for quite sometime and spanned through the generations. Again,
some of the blame can be placed on the parents; especially if it's their money shelling out the expenses... at least initially.
2. You bought your first smartphone at the age of 23 per your comment; well after you were out of high school and I'm assuming w/
your own money. Nothing wrong with that at all. Was your primary reasoning for not getting a smartphone sooner basically because your old cell phone worked fine or due to cost?
3. You mentioned this in past threads that you current car was a gift your parents. Again, nothing wrong with that, mind you; but that certainly eliminated the vehicle purchase cost out of your personal budget equation. The subject of debate in this thread for a current teen (who's old enough to drive) is to get a smartphone or a car (or even adriver's license); that is the question (a Shakespeare rip-off, I know).
In last Sunday's
Philadelphia Inquirer, there was a similar article on this subject. It also listed smartphones and being able to stay linked to social networking as a more economical means of staying in conctact vs. actual face-to-face contact that involves driving on at least one person's part. That's all well and good; but at a certain point (which was not mentioned in either this Sunday's article nor the OP's linked-article), there will be a
need for true face-to-face contact w/someone and being able to drive to meet up with that person or group may be the only way to conduct such. Again, not every city in the U.S. has as extensive of a transit system as NYC.
Additionally, per DeaconG's earlier example, one will
still need to at least
learn how to drive in order to get a job even if purchasing one's own car is a few years down the road. While one may not need to commute by car to one's job, that's doesn't mean that a portion of one's job duties won't involve driving a vehicle owned by the company. Plus, not every company out there allows for telecommuting and/or
continuous internet conferencing as a means to perform one's job duties.
I did farm work to buy my first car (a 74 Gremlin, LOL) and as soon as I went off to college with it, my parents bought my younger sister a car (a 76 Camaro!!!!!!!) because they really liked having 2 cars around.
And yes, after almost 40 years, I am still pissed.
I think all teens that want a car need to do something to earn it.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2013, 10:56:17 AM
You bought your first smartphone at the age of 23 per your comment; well after you were out of high school and I'm assuming w/your own money. Nothing wrong with that at all. Was your primary reasoning for not getting a smartphone sooner basically because your old cell phone worked fine or due to cost?
You assume correctly about who paid for it.
As for why I didn't get a smartphone sooner... yes, cost was certainly a factor. As was the fact that my old phone worked fine. And the fact that it's simply in my nature to be a late adapter of things, since it takes a lot to convince me that the change is worth making. To this day I do not own an iPod or any form of mp3 player and never have - I just use my computer to store and play music when I'm at home, and keep a box of CDs in my car. I expect my hand will be forced on this matter within the next few years, though, as they aren't making cars with CD players anymore.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 07, 2013, 10:37:06 PMI expect my hand will be forced on this matter within the next few years, though, as they aren't making cars with CD players anymore.
I experienced similar regarding cassette players in cars. The last car I bought prior to my '07 Mustang (w/a 6-CD player) was a new '97 Crown Vic. equipped w/a cassette player back in Nov. of '96; the dual-media (cassette & CD player) option didn't become available as on option until a couple of years later. Had it existed then, I certainly would've ordered it.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 07, 2013, 10:37:06 PM
I expect my hand will be forced on this matter within the next few years, though, as they aren't making cars with CD players anymore.
They're still quite commonplace in nearly every rental car I get each week. In fact, it wasn't until the 2012 Chevy Spark that the CD player became a non-option (barring vehicle models that are over 20 years old). In 5-10 years, they will be completely phased out, but they still sell those disks. Probably the last vehicles with CD slots will be those which an older population prefer.
Still, if I buy an album in a store, I don't want to wait until I get home to listen to it...
Quote from: formulanone on November 08, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
Probably the last vehicles with CD slots will be those which an older population prefer.
Indeed, the last car sold with a cassette player was the Lexus SC430, which ended production in 2010.
As a teenager I broke the curve. Drove about 25-30k miles a year when I was 17 and 18, driving from home to my apartment working on the construction of I-55 in McLean County IL, driving home or to friends at the end of the week, and going places on the weekends. After a relatively low mileage past few decades, I am up to that kind of annual mileage with my work. Back in my youth, a lot of my driving was necessary but some of it wasn't, but I was paying for the gas and insurance out of my paycheck. My parents would let me drive one of their beaters rather than trade it in back in those days so I did get somewhat of a break, but I went ahead and bought a new truck when I was 18.
Quote from: formulanone on November 08, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 07, 2013, 10:37:06 PM
I expect my hand will be forced on this matter within the next few years, though, as they aren't making cars with CD players anymore.
They're still quite commonplace in nearly every rental car I get each week. In fact, it wasn't until the 2012 Chevy Spark that the CD player became a non-option (barring vehicle models that are over 20 years old). In 5-10 years, they will be completely phased out, but they still sell those disks. Probably the last vehicles with CD slots will be those which an older population prefer.
I see this as a recent thing. My father's 2011 Nissan Sentra has a CD player. My sister's 2013 Nissan Sentra does not.
The really scary thing is that CD drives are starting to be no longer standard equipment
for computers. That's a real game changer since if your computer doesn't have a CD drive you can't even rip CDs to mp3s anymore, which seems to be my preferred method of obtaining music these days (I have no objections to digitally downloading music but Amazon MP3 and iTunes can both suck it and most major artists don't sell mp3s through any other retailers).
Just rented a Mitsubishi Outlander, and it had a USB reader and Bluetooth. But it had no AUX port, which is how 99% of current vehicles also (or only) allow it. The head unit was apparently not designed for an iPod with 8000 songs, as it was very sluggish. Still, the USB connection is also nice enough to charge your smartphone.
I've copied all my software to a backup USB hard drive, since I saw those days coming...actually, most of what I use on a regular basis would fit on a current 16GB thumb drive, not counting an operating system.
There's two map CDs (USA 98.) I own which refuse to work unless they always have a disc spinning in the tray, but with the advent of online maps, I haven't used them in years.
I feel a bit off-topic here. This shouldn't be about me, getting old. Or technology just doing what it's always been doing, except at an increasingly faster rate of obsolescence.
Quote from: Takumi on November 08, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 08, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
Probably the last vehicles with CD slots will be those which an older population prefer.
Indeed, the last car sold with a cassette player was the Lexus SC430, which ended production in 2010.
On the domestic side, the last sedan equipped w/a cassette player was the 2010 Mercury Grand Marquis.
While I don't believe that Ford has phased out CD players
yet on their cars; they have indeed reverted back to offering only single-CD players rather than CD players that can hold (& play) 5 or 6 within the last 2 model years.
I would be quite vexed not to have a CD player in the car. I'm kind of spoiled in that my Acura TL's stereo plays DVD-Audio discs. That format was a commercial failure, but what I like about it is that I can burn my own DVD-Audio discs using Cirlinca's software. The discs can handle either very high-resolution music (such as 24/96 downloads from HDTracks.com) or very large quantities of CD-quality music. I rip the CDs to .WAV and then use the Cirlinca software to arrange it on the DVD and burn the disc (the codec is not the same as a DVD-Video disc). It makes it easy to carry far more music than I'd ever need in the car without carrying more CDs than will easily fit–for example, I have a single DVD-Audio disc that contains the Beatles' first ten albums (the equivalent of 11 CDs because the White Album is a double-set). With a six-disc in-dash changer, I can feed it six discs and drive all the way to Miami without making it all the way through all six of them. The LightScribe drive helps a lot when burning the discs because I can use it to list what albums are on a given disc and how they're arranged in the different "groups" (similar to directories; it helps in terms of arranging albums, but it's also good because you can only have up to 99 tracks in a group–so for that Beatles disc, for example, using multiple groups was necessary, and I put the first four albums in one group, the next three in another, Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour in a third, and the White Album in a fourth).
My previous car had a trunk-mounted aftermarket CD changer put there by the person who had leased it before I bought it. I like the in-dash unit a whole lot better!
My RX-7 has both a cassette player and a CD player, but the CD player currently doesn't work.
Jumping in a little late -- I got my driver's license, and car, as soon as legally possible in the early '70s, which IIRC was before my 16th birthday. When I was growing up in southern California, my family was without wheels and relied heavily on public transit (not bad for a suburban community, but still not a great way to get around), so there was a big push for me to get my DL ASAP so I could drive them around.
My sisters and I brought a car (before they were eligible for their own DLs, but they got the car when I went off to college), with a small inheritance from our grandmother. It was a little Datsun 1200 that could maybe do 90mph downhill, but the gas mileage was terrific which came in handy when 1973 oil embargo hit.