Official web site
http://www.cottonbeltcorridor.com/?portfolio_cats=blacklands-turnpike-lando-greenville (http://www.cottonbeltcorridor.com/?portfolio_cats=blacklands-turnpike-lando-greenville)
Opposition web site
http://www.notollroad.com/ (http://www.notollroad.com/)
News Report
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/2013/10/proposed-blacklands-turnpike-would.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/2013/10/proposed-blacklands-turnpike-would.html)
The official web site has plenty of feel-good text but virtually no useful information about the project. The opposition web site does have a map of the railroad corridor. It isn't clear to me if the turnpike is envisioned to connect into the Bush Turnpike. If it just stops at Lavon, it is difficult to see how it makes sense.
The regional planning agency (NCTCOG) has just launched a study to determine if this project should be added to the long-term plan. I'm thinking that if there is no government money involved, the powers (ie TxDOT, cities) will support it because it will relieve them of responsibility for providing this infrastructure.
Holy crap propaganda. They even include a quote (http://www.cottonbeltcorridor.com/?portfolio=this-is-texas) from St. Ronnie Raygun (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan).
Here's a more useful site: http://nctcog.org/trans/corridor/blacklands.asp (including documents under "Recent Meetings")
It's just a preliminary concept, but it looks like it would run west to the Pigbutt.
No disrespect to Farmersville, but it's a turnpike to nowhere.
Amen to that!!!
2012 traffic data can be viewed here;
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html
Traffic in this area is very low, only FM 6 (which runs along the proposed alignment) carries a few thousand vehicles per day.
This plan from Lavon to Greenville will result in the turnpike terminating at SH 78, which is an urban arterial, but not with a preserved ROW for a toll road / freeway in the median like SH 114, SH 170, SH 360, etc.
The bounds of the NCTCOG study extend to the Bush Turnpike. I'm thinking that if NCTCOG endorses the Turnpike it will include a connection to the Bush Turnpike, since from a transportation perspective that's the only way it makes sense. But that will probably add greatly to the cost since the area approaching the Bush Turnpike is more urbanized.
I think the main purpose of the turnpike is to promote real estate development in the corridor. I don't know if the private firm proposing the toll road has connections to land development interests, but I'm thinking that the turnpike itself may not be the money-maker. The associated real estate development will be the money-maker. The opposition web site has a site plan for some kind of development. Of course there would be much more if the turnpike is built.
The east is the next frontier for DFW as the north gets further and further away from DFW airport. Eastern DFW isn't growing as fast as the north, but its definitely accelerating. Vastly different place than it was 5 years ago. Lots of large subudivisions planned in that corridor as well.
Good grief, another Turnpike for DFW???
It looks like the regional planning council is going to recommend the addition of this toll road to the regional plan. The western section appears to be certain for a recommendation, and the existence of the private funding makes this somewhat of a no-brainer for the council. As an added plus, it would feed more traffic into the Bush turnpike - more toll revenue for NTTA.
As the presentation link below shows, they will recommend connecting it into the Bush Turnpike and they are estimating 90,000 vehicles per day at the connection.
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committees/rtc/Item_8.rtc050814.pdf (http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committees/rtc/Item_8.rtc050814.pdf)
Video see item 8
http://nctcog.swagit.com/play/05082014-605 (http://nctcog.swagit.com/play/05082014-605)
Of course, once it is added to the regional plan, there will need to be an alignment study and the full NEPA process, and (like any project) opposition is likely. There was opposition to the Bush Turnpike in Garland in the 1980s and 1990s.
This new proposed toll road appears in the official project listing of the newly-updated version of the TxDOT Unified Transportation Plan with a project cost of $542 million. The Hunt county line is near Josephine, which is about 2/3's of the distance from the Bush Turnpike to Greenville.
This is further evidence that there is political support behind this project and it is likely to happen. The document is showing a 2019 date for construction, but that of course is preliminary. I could see it moving forward sooner if the money is available.
See page 406 (page 50 of the Dallas section) http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/utp/2015-2024-unified-transportation-plan.pdf (http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/utp/2015-2024-unified-transportation-plan.pdf)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foscarmail.net%2Fphotos%2Fblacklands_august_2014_utp.jpg&hash=c42913326345f2878a10ccf9a4e80aab865037c6)
The project has been renamed the Northeast Gateway Turnpike
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/08/22/digging-into-details-proposed-toll-road-to.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/08/22/digging-into-details-proposed-toll-road-to.html)
The article says that the most likely alignment includes a two-mile-long bridge over Lake Ray Hubbard to avoid cities which appear to be opposing the project. Nevertheless, this article below says that a 2015 construction start is desired (but highly unlikely in my opinion since a route has not even been selected yet)
http://www.sachsenews.com/articles/templates/news.asp?articleid=2816&zoneid=45 (http://www.sachsenews.com/articles/templates/news.asp?articleid=2816&zoneid=45)
I'm glad someone is talking about this. A Tollway idea that can help people that live in Greenville, TX to get to Collin Co easier sounds great. But making it a tollway, ugg. Northeast Gateway doesn't seem like a good name. Blacklands is a better name. Southwest Corridor was the old name for Chisholm Trail.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/20140922-angry-crowd-opposes-tollway-link-between-bush-turnpike-i-30.ece
Opposition is growing to the turnpike. A public meeting about the initial plans overflowed a room at a local elementary school to the point that a representative from the local fire department deemed it too dangerous to continue having the meeting. Last night a 1500-seat auditorium was nearly packed with interested parties, who were largely opposed or were at least questioning the private firm's intentions (the firm not being NTTA or TxDOT). Many are unhappy that an exact routing has not been chosen yet.
Everyone has been claiming that this toll road will connect with the Bush Turnpike, but the one question that has yet to be answered is where will it connect with I-30? Everyone is saying in the area of Greenville, but where EXACTLY in the Greenville area. I live in Greenville and we still haven't gotten a clear answer on that.
I wonder will this route help so people won't have to depend on 380 so much? I live in E. Texas and sometimes have to travel to Wichita Falls. I take I-30 to Greenville and then 380 to 287 before heading north on that. I like that route better than Hwy 82 which is 2 lane a lot of the way but traffic on 380 can be a mess, especially between Denton and McKinney.
More hearings for the NE Gateway are planned, but smaller ones:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/2014/09/ten-public-meetings-planned-for-northeast-gateway.html?page=all
Quote from: dariusb on September 24, 2014, 03:25:22 PM
I wonder will this route help so people won't have to depend on 380 so much? I live in E. Texas and sometimes have to travel to Wichita Falls. I take I-30 to Greenville and then 380 to 287 before heading north on that. I like that route better than Hwy 82 which is 2 lane a lot of the way but traffic on 380 can be a mess, especially between Denton and McKinney.
Is the 4 laning of 82 between Bells and Bonham done yet? That should really improve the busiest stretch. The upgrades (turn lanes+passing lanes) between Paris and the Lamar/Fannin County line should help too once that finishes next summer.
Quote from: dfwmapper on September 24, 2014, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: dariusb on September 24, 2014, 03:25:22 PM
I wonder will this route help so people won't have to depend on 380 so much? I live in E. Texas and sometimes have to travel to Wichita Falls. I take I-30 to Greenville and then 380 to 287 before heading north on that. I like that route better than Hwy 82 which is 2 lane a lot of the way but traffic on 380 can be a mess, especially between Denton and McKinney.
Is the 4 laning of 82 between Bells and Bonham done yet? That should really improve the busiest stretch. The upgrades (turn lanes+passing lanes) between Paris and the Lamar/Fannin County line should help too once that finishes next summer.
82 is now 4-lane from Bonham all the way to Wichita Falls. The only real slow spot is where the highway goes through towns like Gainesville, Muenster, etc. The newer part of 82 bypasses towns. There is a 2-lane bypass around Clarksville now, too.
Seems at first glance to be another pig in a poke. TXDOT also seems to have been sliding backwards for at least two decades - in terms of design and prioritization. Have noticed a lot of construction in the El Paso area, much overdue, but it comes with a lot of frills and unnecessary architectural excess. Examples including - inlays on columns, mast lighting, silly details along Interstate 10, and more.
Quote from: DJStephens on September 27, 2014, 10:44:53 PM
Seems at first glance to be another pig in a poke. TXDOT also seems to have been sliding backwards for at least two decades - in terms of design and prioritization. Have noticed a lot of construction in the El Paso area, much overdue, but it comes with a lot of frills and unnecessary architectural excess. Examples including - inlays on columns, mast lighting, silly details along Interstate 10, and more.
That's kind of like on our freeway loop here in the Texarkana area. They have state symbols of Texas etched into the concrete under overpasses. I'm like enough of the superfluous s**t just as long as the road is built is what matters.
Arkansas is starting to do that as well. If a bridge is on a state border, then imo, would be fine to do that.
Quote from: Road Hog on September 25, 2014, 01:20:38 AM
Quote from: dfwmapper on September 24, 2014, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: dariusb on September 24, 2014, 03:25:22 PM
I wonder will this route help so people won't have to depend on 380 so much? I live in E. Texas and sometimes have to travel to Wichita Falls. I take I-30 to Greenville and then 380 to 287 before heading north on that. I like that route better than Hwy 82 which is 2 lane a lot of the way but traffic on 380 can be a mess, especially between Denton and McKinney.
Is the 4 laning of 82 between Bells and Bonham done yet? That should really improve the busiest stretch. The upgrades (turn lanes+passing lanes) between Paris and the Lamar/Fannin County line should help too once that finishes next summer.
82 is now 4-lane from Bonham all the way to Wichita Falls. The only real slow spot is where the highway goes through towns like Gainesville, Muenster, etc. The newer part of 82 bypasses towns. There is a 2-lane bypass around Clarksville now, too.
Not so fast.....
82 between Henrietta and Nocona is still 2 lane.
Quote from: dariusb on September 28, 2014, 07:03:37 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on September 27, 2014, 10:44:53 PM
Seems at first glance to be another pig in a poke. TXDOT also seems to have been sliding backwards for at least two decades - in terms of design and prioritization. Have noticed a lot of construction in the El Paso area, much overdue, but it comes with a lot of frills and unnecessary architectural excess. Examples including - inlays on columns, mast lighting, silly details along Interstate 10, and more.
That's kind of like on our freeway loop here in the Texarkana area. They have state symbols of Texas etched into the concrete under overpasses. I'm like enough of the superfluous s**t just as long as the road is built is what matters.
There's a lot of regional variation with really cool artwork. I especially like those cool blue back-lit 5point stars in the Waco area; I cannot remember where the adobe-red cacti are, somewhere else is the bucking bronc silhouette, etc. That's great . . . except our road funds are scarce, and needed projects are going unfunded, so why is money being spent on art? Let the high school and college art majors or community artists volunteer their time, have fundraisers for the materials, etc.
OK, off soapbox.
Quote from: rte66man on September 30, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
Not so fast.....
82 between Henrietta and Nocona is still 2 lane.
The new lanes between Bonham and Bells aren't open yet either.
Quote from: US81There's a lot of regional variation with really cool artwork. I especially like those cool blue back-lit 5point stars in the Waco area; I cannot remember where the adobe-red cacti are, somewhere else is the bucking bronc silhouette, etc. That's great . . . except our road funds are scarce, and needed projects are going unfunded, so why is money being spent on art? Let the high school and college art majors or community artists volunteer their time, have fundraisers for the materials, etc.
The problem is there's a lot of people who look at super highways as ugly, huge eye sores. It's one of the things anti roads people seize upon. The facilities are insanely expensive to build regardless if bridge columns and sound barriers are artistically embellished or not. If a state is going to spend hundreds of millions of tax dollars on a new interchange the finished project shouldn't look like hell.
Controlled access super highways are often the main gateways into a city and add to a visitor's visual impression of the city. If the road's prominent features are designed in a clunky, function-only manner reminiscent of the 1970's the road will do more to detract rather than be a positive addition to the city's environment. An ugly, clunky looking interchange will stay ugly looking for decades. It's not something that could disappear in just a few years, like some flea bag business' home made sign with lettering made out of electrical tape.
I strongly doubt the Blue Angels F/A-18 Hornet models jets on the bridge columns of the I-110/I-10 interchange in Pensacola, FL made up a significant percentage of the cost of that interchange project. Nevertheless, it's something I was pleasantly surprised to see the first time I saw it and now it's something I look forward to seeing when on road trips to Florida. It's not just another generic looking interchange.
Controlled access super highways are often the main gateways into a city and add to a visitor's visual impression of the city. If the road's prominent features are designed in a clunky, function-only manner reminiscent of the 1970's the road will do more to detract rather than be a positive addition to the city's environment. An ugly, clunky looking interchange will stay ugly looking for decades. It's not something that could disappear in just a few years, like some flea bag business' home made sign with lettering made out of electrical tape.
Pretty much describes El Paso's first "spaghetti bowl" or the the I-10 / US 54 interchange. Built in roughly 1970-71, it was jammed between two existing interchanges,and squeezed into the existing ROW without any additional acquisition. Was given a "do over" recently, with it being painted and some architectural frills added to it. There are additional frills being added currently, which include rock facings, and some message boards. There are serious design deficiencies which exist in the area, which include lack of a fourth through lane in each direction, and shifting of the main lanes to accommodate an antiquated bridge structure, Raynolds Blvd, an original four span bridge over the interstate, circa mid sixties.
New Dallas Observer cover story this week about the proposed turnpike:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2014/10/texas_turnpike_private_toll_road_lavon.php
That was quick. The project appears to be dead. The regional planning authority (NCTCOG) withdrew its recommendation to include the project in the regional plan.
I think what killed the project was the near unanimous opposition from cities along the route. In all the controversies along the Bush Turnpike, most of the cities along the route were strong supporters of the project, including Grand Prairie where the longest litigation occurred. Even Carrollton and Rowlett eventually supported the Bush Tunrpike. But when political opposition is unanimous or near-unanimous, the project just isn't going to happen.
I think part of the project could come back to like - the west end which would connect to the Bush Turnpike and go over or around Lake Hubbard. But any resurrection is unlikely and would not extend much east of the lake.
http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/regional-planners-drop-recommendation-for-greenville-toll-road.html/ (http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/regional-planners-drop-recommendation-for-greenville-toll-road.html/)
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/10/17/tolled-highway-to-greenville-could-be-dead-after.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/10/17/tolled-highway-to-greenville-could-be-dead-after.html)
Regional planners drop recommendation for Greenville toll road
By Brandon Formby
bformby@dallasnews.com
3:27 pm on October 17, 2014 | Permalink
The North Central Texas Council of Governments is reversing its recommendation to add a controversial rural toll road to the region's long-term transportation plan. Officials weren't immediately available for comment Friday afternoon, but the move could halt the project. Projects typically have to be in that plan in order to move forward.
NCTCOG transportation director Michael Morris previously said that his agency was rethinking the recommendation it made last month after more than 1,200 residents showed up to a meeting in Rockwall to oppose the toll road from Garland to Greenville. While the recommendation preceded that raucous meeting, it followed other meetings where residents vocally opposed the road.
Since NCTCOG's recommendation, several cities along or near possible routes for the Northeast Gateway have formally opposed the project. Those cities include Fate, Josephine, Lavon, Rockwall, Rowlett, Sachse and Wylie.
The 28-mile road is being developed by private company Texas Turnpike Corp., which has the ability to use eminent domain. It was unclear Friday afternoon how the company plans to proceed. Company officials have said that the Texas Department of Transportation has final approval of their plans. Company officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment Friday afternoon.
I can't see the west end surviving on its own. Not enough traffic volume if it doesn't serve as a reliever to I-30.
Quote from: dfwmapper on October 17, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
I can't see the west end surviving on its own. Not enough traffic volume if it doesn't serve as a reliever to I-30.
In my opinion, the main source of traffic for the proposed turnpike would be generated by new development (i.e. housing) on the rural land east of Lavon. Many (maybe most) of the people living in those communities would be going jobs in Garland, Richardson and Plano. The western end of this proposed toll road would serve that traffic.
The source of traffic would not be people coming from Greenville looking to bypass I-30.
So this tollway would have its own source of traffic, mainly commuter traffic. And the area east of Lavon is probably going to urbanize with or without the toll road. So that's why I can see the western end potentially being financially feasible, or justifiable from the traffic-count perspective. But as I noted, it is unlikely to be politically feasible.
Something would have to pay the bills for the road until the development filled in. If it was NTTA building it and they could use their other roads to bootstrap it and pay down the debt, that would be one thing, but building a toll road in the hopes that it will attract development without having any other guarantees is a good way to end up in default before it ever has the chance to happen.
The Northeast Gateway aka Blacklands Toll Road is pretty much dead in the water, as of Friday afternoon, according to the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG).
According to a story posted on the website of the Greenville Herald Banner, NCTCOG has decided against recommending the addition of a toll road between Greenville and Garland.
The agency issued a press release Friday afternoon, indicating planners do not intend to include the Northeast Gateway project, which had previously been identified as the Blacklands Corridor, as part of the future transportation plans for the region.
The story can be read in its entirety at: http://www.heraldbanner.com/news/article_3cf898e2-564f-11e4-97b0-138ff8627f43.html (http://www.heraldbanner.com/news/article_3cf898e2-564f-11e4-97b0-138ff8627f43.html)
A TX state senator is filing a bill to try to take away the Texas Turnpike Corp.'s (the firm behind the proposed Blacklands Turnpike / Northeast Gateway) eminent domain powers.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2015/01/22/bill-would-strip-dallas-toll-road-builder-of-its.html
The bill would not only remove eminent domain power from the one company that has it, it would nearly prohibit private toll roads.
Transportation Code Section 362.102 currently reads
COMMISSION APPROVAL OF PRIVATE TURNPIKE OR TOLL PROJECT REQUIRED. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a private entity may not construct a privately owned turnpike or toll project that connects to a road, bridge, or highway in the state highway system unless the commission approves the private turnpike or toll project as provided by this subchapter.
This bill would change that to
PRIVATE TURNPIKE OR TOLL PROJECT PROHIBITED. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a private entity may not construct a privately owned turnpike or toll project that connects to a road, bridge, or highway in the state highway system.
This seems to leave open the possibility of a private toll road built without eminent domain that does not connect to the state highway system.