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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Lyon Wonder on November 22, 2013, 05:40:46 PM

Title: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Lyon Wonder on November 22, 2013, 05:40:46 PM
I've heard that Chicago's Midway airport has a short runway, and an accident occurred there in 2005 when a 737 slid off the runway.

The Toncontin International Airport in Honduras has one of the shortest airstrips for major passenger jet airports with a length of 6,112 feet.  The Honduras airport and it's runway were built in the 1940s, when prop passenger planes didn't require as long a runway as modern jet airliners.  The runway is so short that jet airline pilots have to land their planes manually without the aid of automated controls.

Several runway-related crashes occurred at the Honduras airport over the last several decades, including the fatal crash of Boeing 727 in 1989 and a Airbus 320 in 2008, which run out of runway and killed 5, including the pilot. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-honduras-democracy-crashed-at-a-dangerous-airport/2013/11/22/1cc311d6-5382-11e3-9ee6-2580086d8254_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-honduras-democracy-crashed-at-a-dangerous-airport/2013/11/22/1cc311d6-5382-11e3-9ee6-2580086d8254_story.html)
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: formulanone on November 22, 2013, 06:08:19 PM
LaGuardia has two 7000' runways, which are on the short side for a major airport. It's plenty for most medium-sized aircraft, but supposedly challenging for fully-loaded widebody aircraft.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: oscar on November 22, 2013, 06:20:31 PM
Washington D.C.'s Reagan National airport.  The main runway length is only 6869 ft.  Nothing larger than a 737 is allowed, for security reasons (too close to the Pentagon), but the runway length would be an additional challenge for wide-bodies.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: TheStranger on November 22, 2013, 06:52:56 PM
Bob Hope Airport in Burbank (about 20 minutes from downtown Los Angeles) has a 6885 ft and a 5802 ft runway, and mostly sees service from Southwest 737s.

Most notable overrun there was 13 years ago...

http://www.airdisaster.com/eyewitness/1455-3.jpg
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Brandon on November 22, 2013, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on November 22, 2013, 05:40:46 PM
I've heard that Chicago's Midway airport has a short runway, and an accident occurred there in 2005 when a 737 slid off the runway.

Yes, Midway's are short.  It's quite an experience taking off from there as the pilot revs the engines and gets up to speed as fast as he possibly can.  Landing is rather fun as well, especially from the southeast.  You pass over blocks of houses as a low altitude, see Cicero Avenue, and then all of a sudden, bump - screech onto the runway.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Alps on November 22, 2013, 07:44:54 PM
When my plane landed at Hobart, it used nearly the entire runway to get down. I looked it up - length is around 7,300 feet. While not terribly major, it's the capital of the state/island after all. That said, Launceston's longest runway is only 6,500 feet.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Lyon Wonder on November 22, 2013, 08:38:06 PM
Another Southwest 737 skidded off Midway's runway again in 2011.  Fortunately this time the plane didn't end up in the street and there were no fatalities.

http://www.nycaviation.com/2011/04/southwest-airlines-jet-skids-off-runway-in-chicago/#.UpAEphCFe8E
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: JREwing78 on November 22, 2013, 10:13:19 PM
Topical....

Boeing's Massive Dreamlifter Lands at the Wrong Airport, Gets Stuck
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/11/dreamlifter-wrong-airport/

Pilots flying a 747 "Dreamlifter" jumbo jet ferrying 787 parts landed at Col. Jabara Airport in Wichita, instead of McConnell Air Force Base. Problem: the runway at Jabara was only 6,101 feet long, a bit shorter than this 747's normal takeoff requirements (9,199 feet).
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: roadman65 on November 22, 2013, 11:05:58 PM
St. Thomas used to have only a 4000 feet runway.  It now is 7000 feet, but when it was that short only 727's could land there.  Back when I landed on it in 76, it was just a few days after a plane had crashed there when the pilot tried to abort a landing, but never got enough speed to lift himself off the ground.  It crashed into a nearby fuel station, and I saw the charred remains of the station where it landed.

In addition all aboard our plane applauded the Captain after we landed safely after he literally dropped the plane on the pavement as the landing was a hard bounce more than the typical rough landing.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on November 24, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
Quote from: oscar on November 22, 2013, 06:20:31 PM
Washington D.C.'s Reagan National airport.  The main runway length is only 6869 ft.  Nothing larger than a 737 is allowed, for security reasons (too close to the Pentagon), but the runway length would be an additional challenge for wide-bodies.

I've flown plenty of 757s in and out of DCA. If that was a rule, it was lifted years ago.

DCA does have perimeter restrictions where flights over so many miles are forbidden, with airlines being granted only a few exceptions each day for longer flights.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: NJRoadfan on November 24, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
Trenton-Mercer Airport's (TTN) main runway is only 6006 ft and has routinely handled 737s in the past. Frontier flys out of there now, but I don't know what aircraft they normally use.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on November 24, 2013, 10:46:46 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 24, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
Trenton-Mercer Airport's (TTN) main runway is only 6006 ft and has routinely handled 737s in the past. Frontier flys out of there now, but I don't know what aircraft they normally use.

Frontier flies A319/A320s.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: formulanone on November 25, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
...and a couple of A318s.

On the other hand, some regional airports I've been to have some very long runways. Columbus, Georgia (CSG) has an extremely long runway for transport into nearby Fort Benning. Otherwise, they're serviced by a single commercial carrier.

Huntsville, Alabama (HSV) has a 10,000 ft runway, but my guess is that the nearby Boeing facility wanted it to test supersonic aircraft, which requires longer runways. While HSV isn't a regional, it's likely not in the top 100 airports in America for total passenger counts.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on November 25, 2013, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 25, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
...and a couple of A318s.

On the other hand, some regional airports I've been to have some very long runways. Columbus, Georgia (CSG) has an extremely long runway for transport into nearby Fort Benning. Otherwise, they're serviced by a single commercial carrier.

Huntsville, Alabama (HSV) has a 10,000 ft runway, but my guess is that the nearby Boeing facility wanted it to test supersonic aircraft, which requires longer runways. While HSV isn't a regional, it's likely not in the top 100 airports in America for total passenger counts.


Most small airports with unnecessarily long runways are former military airfields or support commercial cargo operations. In HSV's case, they have a huge cargo business. They recently expanded one of their runways to support multiple weekly flights from new 747-8 cargo planes.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: PHLBOS on November 25, 2013, 03:45:52 PM
Quote from: realjd on November 24, 2013, 10:46:46 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 24, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
Trenton-Mercer Airport's (TTN) main runway is only 6006 ft and has routinely handled 737s in the past. Frontier flys out of there now, but I don't know what aircraft they normally use.

Frontier flies A319/A320s.
The A319/320s are similar-sized competitors to the Boeing 737-700 & 737-800 respectively.

Quote from: formulanone on November 25, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
...and a couple of A318s.
IIRC, Frontier retired their A318s a few years ago.  The A318 had the same issue that the 737-600 had; too heavy a plane for its small size.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Alps on November 25, 2013, 06:21:05 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 25, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
...and a couple of A318s.

On the other hand, some regional airports I've been to have some very long runways. Columbus, Georgia (CSG) has an extremely long runway for transport into nearby Fort Benning. Otherwise, they're serviced by a single commercial carrier.

Huntsville, Alabama (HSV) has a 10,000 ft runway, but my guess is that the nearby Boeing facility wanted it to test supersonic aircraft, which requires longer runways. While HSV isn't a regional, it's likely not in the top 100 airports in America for total passenger counts.

Sure the HSV runway isn't for emergency/alternate space shuttle landings?
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on November 25, 2013, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: Steve on November 25, 2013, 06:21:05 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 25, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
...and a couple of A318s.

On the other hand, some regional airports I've been to have some very long runways. Columbus, Georgia (CSG) has an extremely long runway for transport into nearby Fort Benning. Otherwise, they're serviced by a single commercial carrier.

Huntsville, Alabama (HSV) has a 10,000 ft runway, but my guess is that the nearby Boeing facility wanted it to test supersonic aircraft, which requires longer runways. While HSV isn't a regional, it's likely not in the top 100 airports in America for total passenger counts.

Sure the HSV runway isn't for emergency/alternate space shuttle landings?

Yep. HSV wasn't a shuttle emergency site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_abort_modes#Emergency_landing_sites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_shuttle_landing_sites

It's because of cargo flights:
http://www.aircargoworld.com/Air-Cargo-News/2013/06/huntsville-to-open-expanded-runway-for-747-800/1314102
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: DAL764 on December 01, 2013, 07:24:52 AM
Quote from: realjd on November 24, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
Quote from: oscar on November 22, 2013, 06:20:31 PM
Washington D.C.'s Reagan National airport.  The main runway length is only 6869 ft.  Nothing larger than a 737 is allowed, for security reasons (too close to the Pentagon), but the runway length would be an additional challenge for wide-bodies.

I've flown plenty of 757s in and out of DCA. If that was a rule, it was lifted years ago.
There is no rule like that. If it was, both Delta and United would be violating it on a daily basis.

Quote from: formulanone on November 22, 2013, 06:08:19 PM
LaGuardia has two 7000' runways, which are on the short side for a major airport. It's plenty for most medium-sized aircraft, but supposedly challenging for fully-loaded widebody aircraft.
Well, thanks to perimeter restrictions at LGA most widebodies never had to go out at max weight anyway, and the runways were still plenty long enough for Delta's L-1011s to Atlanta or AA/UA DC-10s to O'Hare.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: hbelkins on December 02, 2013, 01:56:35 PM
The Flight 5191 crash at Lexington, Ky. was caused by a plane using the wrong runway; one that was too short for it.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2013, 04:17:08 PM
The thing about LGA, it doesn't need a long runway since JFK and Newark exist
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on December 02, 2013, 11:30:48 PM
LGA is my #2 most hated airport. It is overcrowded, has embarrassingly poor transit connections, and has way too many 3rd world style remote stands.

#1 is ORD because fuck that place and their 12 hour delays for snow flurries when MDW is on time. #3 is LAX because LAX.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: Crazy Volvo Guy on December 13, 2013, 01:55:17 PM
"USS John Wayne" - i.e. John Wayne/Orange County Airport in Santa Ana, CA comes to mind.

It's nicknamed "USS John Wayne" because of the shape of the airport's property, that loosely resembles the deck of an aircraft carrier, and its short (around 5,500' iirc) runway.  http://goo.gl/maps/gW5cc

To think they used to fly 757s out of there...don't know if they still do.  Then again, the 757, -200 variants at least, are decently overpowered.  Don't know about the -300 variants.  Likely not as much so.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 13, 2013, 04:27:15 PM
Juancho E. Yrausquin Airport in Saba, Netherlands (Actually near St Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean). If you wanted a short runway, there you are. And with both ends at cliffs down to the sea :sombrero:.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: PHLBOS on December 13, 2013, 04:37:31 PM
Logan Airport's  (BOS) Runway 15L-33R is only 2557 feet.  Cape Air Cessnas are likely the only aircraft that can use it.

http://goo.gl/maps/z6c0J (http://goo.gl/maps/z6c0J)
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: realjd on December 13, 2013, 10:37:53 PM
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on December 13, 2013, 01:55:17 PM
"USS John Wayne" - i.e. John Wayne/Orange County Airport in Santa Ana, CA comes to mind.

It's nicknamed "USS John Wayne" because of the shape of the airport's property, that loosely resembles the deck of an aircraft carrier, and its short (around 5,500' iirc) runway.  http://goo.gl/maps/gW5cc

To think they used to fly 757s out of there...don't know if they still do.  Then again, the 757, -200 variants at least, are decently overpowered.  Don't know about the -300 variants.  Likely not as much so.

Delta flies 752s, CRJ-900s, and A319s out of SNA. The 752s fly to ATL.
Title: Re: major airports with substandard, short runways
Post by: DAL764 on December 22, 2013, 07:28:00 AM
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on December 13, 2013, 01:55:17 PM
"USS John Wayne" - i.e. John Wayne/Orange County Airport in Santa Ana, CA comes to mind.

It's nicknamed "USS John Wayne" because of the shape of the airport's property, that loosely resembles the deck of an aircraft carrier, and its short (around 5,500' iirc) runway.  http://goo.gl/maps/gW5cc

To think they used to fly 757s out of there...don't know if they still do.  Then again, the 757, -200 variants at least, are decently overpowered.  Don't know about the -300 variants.  Likely not as much so.
FedEx still flies A300Fs into SNA on a regular basis. Also, many moons ago, I believe some airline (either DL or AA) operated 767-200s into SNA for a short time as well.