We were coming back from Thanksgiving vacation - got into Ohio (I-71) and traffic was creeping along. We got off at exit 151 and asked the woman at the gas station whether it would be better to take OH-95 east or west. We were headed to Tennessee and wanted back on I-71 eventually.
Just from looking at the map I saw OH-95 to OH-13 to I-70 to I-71 if we went east, but she suggested OH-95 west to US-23 to I-270 to I-71. We took her advice - but took OH-95 to US-42 to US-23. US-42 wasn't too bad, but US-23 didn't seem to be worthy of the thick line it had in the map. Although it was very smooth road, there were quite a few stoplights and I wonder if we shouldn't have taken OH-95 to OH-13.
Any of you familiar with the area? Did we make the right choice?
What's your traffic jam strategy in unfamiliar territory?
Quote from: woodpusher on December 03, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
What's your traffic jam strategy in unfamiliar territory?
Almost always - just stick with the main roadway. More or less, the main roadway will be a straight line. The alternate routes will zig-zag me around the area. And even while we move slowly in congestion, we're still going 30 - 40 mph on average usually. Sure, sometimes we may be stopped, but other times traffic will pick up. Compare that with the alternate routes which will have lower speed limits, traffic lights, etc. The time savings is nill to negative!
But its not just about time - I'll often bail out of a traffic jam just because I don't feel like sitting in it, even if the alternate route ends up taking longer. Not all of us plan our trip schedules down to the minute. In fact I'd wager most people would rather get home a few minutes later if it meant a more enjoyable, lower-stress drive.
What I do really depends on what I see on the map in terms of where the alternate route goes. In general, I prefer to feel like we're moving even if it winds up taking right around the same amount of time. Same reason why in New York I generally ride the express subway rather than the local even if we'll later wind up changing back to the same local. It just feels faster. Plus I tend to get rather fed up with the stupeys you encounter in any traffic jam–you know, rubberneckers, people who don't move when the people ahead of them move, people who feel you should merge a mile in advance of the lane ending and then try to prevent anyone from merging after that point, people who think the shoulder is there to use to rocket past stopped traffic, etc.....going a different way bypasses all that crap and is better for my blood pressure.
But if the alternate route is particularly convoluted or goes particularly far out of the way, I usually don't bother with it unless the backup is unusually severe or unless I know of a particularly good place to stop (say, for lunch) on the alternate route.
I suppose this is one place where some of the smartphone apps, such as Waze, can be useful. Last year on our way south for Christmas we hit a backup in South Carolina, so I had Ms1995hoo look at Waze on her phone and she found an extended backup, so we went a different way. It's a lot easier than just rolling the dice.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 03, 2013, 08:48:19 AM
Quote from: woodpusher on December 03, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
What's your traffic jam strategy in unfamiliar territory?
Almost always - just stick with the main roadway. More or less, the main roadway will be a straight line. The alternate routes will zig-zag me around the area. And even while we move slowly in congestion, we're still going 30 - 40 mph on average usually. Sure, sometimes we may be stopped, but other times traffic will pick up. Compare that with the alternate routes which will have lower speed limits, traffic lights, etc. The time savings is nill to negative!
That's assuming that the average speed on the main road is indeed going 30-40 mph; but there have been numerous times where the average speed along the main road is significantly
lower (and no, I'm not referring to small isolated areas). When that has indeed happened (along the GSP, NJTP, I-84, the Mass Pike), that's when I've usually bailed.
Plus, not all alternate routes zig-zag. In the case of I-90/Mass Pike vs. US 20 between Sturbridge (Exit 9) & Auburn (Exit 10); there have been many times where I've used US 20 instead of the Pike and I arrived at my destination
earlier than I did if I stayed on the Pike (which can become a 10-mile parking lot between those 2 interchanges at times).
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 03, 2013, 09:04:22 AM
But its not just about time - I'll often bail out of a traffic jam just because I don't feel like sitting in it, even if the alternate route ends up taking longer. Not all of us plan our trip schedules down to the minute. In fact I'd wager most people would rather get home a few minutes later if it meant a more enjoyable, lower-stress drive.
Agree 100%.
Well, when you live in Texas you can opt for the frontage roads, but then about half of the traffic chooses that, too. I've had it work on occasion living in North Dallas.
I will use an alternate route for roadgeeking purposes though. Once last year, the wife and I were coming to visit family in central Louisiana from Dallas and there was a wreck on I-20 near Marshall. I took FM 31 southeast across the TX/LA border to get to a portion of US 84 I hadn't clinched yet. It ended up adding a good bit of time only because of a stalled train in Mansfield.
I look at the map and build an alternate route from there, occasionally crossing or passing close to the jammed roadway if I don't know where the jam ends, or only getting back to it where I know it won't be jammed
I try not to lose too much time, but I still work pretty much in the same way as deathtopumpkins.
If traffic is creeping along or at a standstill, I usually bail, unless my intent is to clinch that route. I, like others, want to feel like I'm moving, even if it's on a secondary road that's a bit out of the way.
If traffic's completely stopped I usually bail onto the sidewalk.
Dilbert has a missile in his car for traffic jams.
He even let Dogbert fire it once.
:-D
Quote from: Jardine on December 03, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Dilbert has a missile in his car for traffic jams.
He even let Dogbert fire it once.
:-D
When my best friend lived in Boston, and had to commute from Brighton to Andover, he often commented to me that he wished Ford had made photon torpedos a factory option on the Escort.
Quote from: woodpusher on December 03, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
What's your traffic jam strategy in unfamiliar territory?
Inrix or TomTom.
I don't drive yet (I'm 14), but let's say I was on I-81, and I saw signs for US 11 everywhere. If there was a traffic jam, I would move to US 11.
Quote from: 1 on December 03, 2013, 05:35:47 PM
I don't drive yet (I'm 14), but let's say I was on I-81, and I saw signs for US 11 everywhere. If there was a traffic jam, I would move to US 11.
That strategy may work in some places, but remember that much of U.S. 11 has a lot of signalized intersections, which means
much lower traffic moving capacity than a freeway (very nearly all Interstates, including I-81, have full access control with no signalized intersections).
Consider this.
On the day before Thanksgiving, a lot of motorists tried to bail-out from horrendously congested I-95 southbound in Fairfax, Prince William and Stafford Counties in Virginia. I-95 is as many as 6 lanes southbound (4 or 3 local lanes and 2 barrier-separated HOV lanes) until Va. 234 at Dumfries, then 3 lanes from there to I-295 north of Richmond.
U.S. 1 is mostly 2 lanes for southbound traffic (and 2 lanes northbound) with no median, with many driverways; plus frequent signalized and un-signalized intersections, which became gridlocked because U.S. 1 could not handle the increased traffic volumes.
in LA, drive the surface streets. today I cut off a big segment of wedged I-710 by taking Garfield for a little while. except for the Garfield/Manchester interchange, all the lights were timed very well and I didn't stop for any.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 03, 2013, 06:40:04 PM
in LA, drive the surface streets. today I cut off a big segment of wedged I-710 by taking Garfield for a little while. except for the Garfield/Manchester interchange, all the lights were timed very well and I didn't stop for any.
I agree with that strategy - in L.A. The grid of arterials and collector roads (or, as Southern California seems to call them, "surface streets") is sufficiently large that there are almost an infinite number of "bail" routes if there's a severe freeway problem.
Between I-710 in Long Beach and I-10 in Santa Monica, Ca. 1 (PCH/Sepulveda Boulevard/Lincoln Boulevard) is a pretty good "bail" route if I-405 has a melt-down. It works in part because there are several alternates to I-405.
Example, in my area I-95 and US-1 run parallel. Sometimes, I will not get on 95 because on US 1 there will be no trucks and its less stressful than the interstate.
I dunno. Speaking from experience, if there's nasty traffic on I-95 in CT, US 1 is often just as bad and not worth the detour.
The maps app on my phone can display live traffic data. I often consult it before driving away if I expect traffic, and may adjust my route accordingly. And when you become familiar with an area, there are things you learn not to do without even checking (e.g., do not take The Hutch north out of The Bronx on a weekend unless it's early in the morning or late in the evening).
But yes, I won't bail on a road I've never been on before unless I absolutely have to. For clinching, you put up with the traffic!
In unfamiliar territory? I try to look at time of day- intuitively, would it be worse on the beltway? (e.g. commuters out to the suburbs would have likely reached the beltway by now)- so if I hit congestion at like 3:30 or 4:00, I'll go out to the beltway. If it's peak time, I'll take whatever route is shortest. If it's after peak but still congested, I'll stick with the mainline. That may or may not have any basis in reality, but it seems logical to me so it feels better.
On whatever road I'm on, if I'm in unfamiliar territory in a traffic jam I'll pick the second lane from the right and stay in it, since that seems to work best in many of the metro areas I've driven extensively in. Again no idea if that actually works or if it's just superstition, but in my mind it seems to be the best lane. The worst was the first and only time I've driven through Toronto on the 401- stayed in the express lanes and those were just jammed while the "local" lanes moved quite well.
But yeah, obviously if I'm clinching that's the priority.
Depends on the location. If I need the clinch, I suffer through it. If not, I'll generally get off the highway, and try to cross it as often as possible to afford myself chances to get back on. The last time I did this was in PA, and I picked up some nice clinch mileage on a parallel state highway as a result. I tend to carry maps of wherever I'm going, or at least an emergency macro-scale atlas.
The freeways zig-zag a lot more than the surface streets in Metro Detroit. Here's a map that shows how direct the surface streets are that connect Detroit to the suburbs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi478.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr144%2Ftradephoric%2FTransportation%2520Pictures%2FMajor%2520Metro%2520Arterials%2FDetroit_zpsea03e835.jpg&hash=cb4e27b8ccdd90d4b515180aa5fd16004f75fce4)
During the 1920's, major thoroughfares throughout Detroit were designated as "super-highways" including Woodward Avenue, Stephenson Highway, Northwestern Highway, Southfield Road, Grand River, Sunset Boulevard, Eight Mile Road and Wyoming Highway. These roads were designed using a 204 foot right-of-way, wide enough for two strips of concrete each 44 feet wide, with a boulevard between them to allow space for 2 rails of inter-urban transit. The trolly's in Detroit are long gone but the extra wide boulevards have allowed for some innovative intersection designs to flourish throughout the region. Detroit is home to the Michigan left which eliminates left-turn phases at the main intersection. In addition, the large medians have made superstreets commonplace throughout metro Detroit which is great for signal progression (especially for closely spaced intersections that are difficult to coordinate).
Getting onto the surface streets to avoid a jam in Detroit doesn't necessarily mean you'll get stuck at a lot of red lights. Some people hate Michigan lefts and i kinda have a love/hate relationship with them myself (you find yourself planning routes to avoid left turns). That being said, I've never driven a road quite like Telegraph.
Quote from: Jardine on December 03, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Dilbert has a missile in his car for traffic jams.
He even let Dogbert fire it once.
:-D
Quote from: tradephoric on December 03, 2013, 11:35:37 PM
Some people hate Michigan lefts and i kinda have a love/hate relationship with them myself (you find yourself planning routes to avoid left turns).
Avoiding left turns is good route planning practice in general. When running errands I will generally plan my stops in whatever sequence will avoid lefts. UPS famously avoids lefts as much as possible in its driver itineraries, and this is credited with making the operation much more efficient.
Quote from: 1 on December 03, 2013, 05:35:47 PM
I don't drive yet (I'm 14), but let's say I was on I-81, and I saw signs for US 11 everywhere. If there was a traffic jam, I would move to US 11.
On my family's annual Florida trips we'd sometimes bail from I-95 onto US 301. Traffic was likely to be just as stop-and-go.
Much of driving is physcological.
Two parallel routes - an Interstate & a state route
The Interstate is congested. Traffic is moving, on average, 30 mph in a 65 mph zone. Sometimes, traffic comes to a complete standstill for 45 seconds. Motorists are going ballistic, wondering why so much traffic is on the road.
The State Route has less traffic. Traffic is moving, on average, 30 mph in a 45 mph zone. Soemtimes, we hit a red light, and traffic comes to a complete standstill for 45 seconds. Motorists are calm.
The biggest difference - we are accustomed to stopping at red lights. They have a calming effect. And when there's cross traffic, we just sit there, look around, talk, listen to the radio.
To further prove the point - at a busy intersection controlled by a stop sign, motorists will patiently wait at the stop sign upwards of about 10 or 15 seconds. After that, they get fidgety, start pulling up, trying to find a gap to enter or cross the road. They get anxious, wondering if that gap will come (the gap will occur, like it does every day when they cross the intersection). Eventually, they gun it, even though they really didn't need to. They probably waited at that stop sign no more than 30 seconds.
The residents complain they want a traffic light. A traffic light is installed. Now, a motorist may need to wait upwards of 60 seconds for the light to turn green. But they don't get upset, because the light is controlling traffic. They are more patient, and when that light turns green, they go. Nevermind the fact that they waited LONGER than when they were waiting at the stop sign - they remained calm, because of the traffic light!
Quote from: woodpusher on December 03, 2013, 07:36:39 AMWhat's your traffic jam strategy in unfamiliar territory?
I should have mentioned this earlier. If I know that I will be ventering out to an unfamiliar area, I make it a point to obtain some roadmaps (mostly from AAA) for that area. If I wind up
stopped in traffic, I take one out and quickly scan the map for the nearest exit and possible alternate route(s) to get around such.
If the congested area in question is located nowhere near my origin/destination area; an alternate route that isn't necessarily parallel to the primary route doesn't bother me too much... especially if traffic on the highway is crawling at 10-20 mph.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 04, 2013, 09:09:51 AMIf the congested area in question is located nowhere near my origin/destination area; an alternate route that isn't necessarily parallel to the primary route doesn't bother me too much... especially if traffic on the highway is crawling at 10-20 mph.
This.
I once bailed out of the Capital Beltway in Maryland and went all the way across the Chesapeake to reach Delaware via U.S. 301.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 04, 2013, 04:30:17 AM
Quote from: tradephoric on December 03, 2013, 11:35:37 PM
Some people hate Michigan lefts and i kinda have a love/hate relationship with them myself (you find yourself planning routes to avoid left turns).
Avoiding left turns is good route planning practice in general. When running errands I will generally plan my stops in whatever sequence will avoid lefts. UPS famously avoids lefts as much as possible in its driver itineraries, and this is credited with making the operation much more efficient.
Supposedly the late J. Edgar Hoover, longtime director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, forbade his drivers from making left turns.
JFK was killed right after turning left. Coincidence?
In my experience, when the expressways are jammed, I look at the side roads via Inrix but there is always that one traffic light or intersection that backs up and ruins the side road detour.
Then, I look for a side road of the side road.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 04, 2013, 09:06:49 AM
The biggest difference - we are accustomed to stopping at red lights. They have a calming effect. And when there's cross traffic, we just sit there, look around, talk, listen to the radio.
only up to about the 3rd or 4th one. if I'm on an arterial with poorly timed lights and I get 16 reds in a row, you bet I'm not gonna be happy with that.
the worst one I've ever encountered is US-441 through Orlando: 120 reds out of 126 in the interval I decided to count.
(and no brown shields either.)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 04, 2013, 11:39:56 AM
Supposedly the late J. Edgar Hoover, longtime director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, forbade his drivers from making left turns.
that doesn't seem like a particularly viable strategy when following another car during an investigation.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on December 03, 2013, 09:04:22 AM
But its not just about time - I'll often bail out of a traffic jam just because I don't feel like sitting in it, even if the alternate route ends up taking longer. Not all of us plan our trip schedules down to the minute. In fact I'd wager most people would rather get home a few minutes later if it meant a more enjoyable, lower-stress drive.
I'm with you on that. I hate, hate, hate sitting in traffic in rural areas. There is almost always an alternative that's less stressful. And usually more interesting. Unless of course I'm trying to clinch something, but even then the prospect of lower stress driving can be mighty appealing.
In the city it depends. Time of day can make the situation six of one, half a dozen of the other. Suburban driving on surface roads is frequently worse than the tollway. Gobs of poorly timed lights, lower speed limits, even slower drivers, and so on.
I try to avoid suburbs the best I can. most of them were built sufficiently recently that there isn't anything interesting there.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 04, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
the worst one I've ever encountered is US-441 through Orlando: 120 reds out of 126 in the interval I decided to count.
Try driving across the District of Columbia sometime (and not using I-95, I-395, I-695, D.C. 295 or I-295).
Likely not big enough to have as many as 100 signalized intersections (if you choose a somewhat "straight" path, like U.S. 29 or U.S. 1), but you
will be stopping at most signalized intersections, even at 3:00 A.M.
One of my recently traffic jam is that I stuck in the California I-80 freeways, the road was clear almost in one hour.
The second one is that I drove along Hana Highway to Kahului in a terrible day, stuck in traffic for at least 2 hours.
I don't have a solutions at moment . :no:
Quote
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 03, 2013, 06:40:04 PM
in LA, drive the surface streets. today I cut off a big segment of wedged I-710 by taking Garfield for a little while. except for the Garfield/Manchester interchange, all the lights were timed very well and I didn't stop for any.
I agree with that strategy - in L.A. The grid of arterials and collector roads (or, as Southern California seems to call them, "surface streets") is sufficiently large that there are almost an infinite number of "bail" routes if there's a severe freeway problem.
Between I-710 in Long Beach and I-10 in Santa Monica, Ca. 1 (PCH/Sepulveda Boulevard/Lincoln Boulevard) is a pretty good "bail" route if I-405 has a melt-down. It works in part because there are several alternates to I-405.
I agree with this in Orange Co. as well. I'll often opt for surface streets if the freeways are at a standstill, the exception being streets near attractions like Disneyland, where you have too many confused tourists.
I may not make better time, but I just prefer to stay moving, and that's often the case if I exit onto a surface street.
I know this answer is considered heretical here but on long road trips I usually have my GPS on because I like the ETA and POI features. Usually it knows about the traffic and reroutes me before the jam (or warns me that there is a traffic jam but that it's quicker to stay the course), but if I encounter traffic it doesn't know about, it has a handy button that will reroute me without me having to try to look at maps while I'm driving.
My jam is always I-294 at the I-88 ramp. This along with the I-290 on-ramps and the Bensenville curve makes traffic creep from Willow Road all the way to I-55 on some occasions.
Usually my strategies are to take parallel routes mainly (Wolf Road, LaGrange/Mannheim US 12/20/45, IL-83 on a good day, comes to mind in the area)
Quote from: woodpusher on December 03, 2013, 07:36:39 AMWe took her advice - but took OH-95 to US-42 to US-23. US-42 wasn't too bad, but US-23 didn't seem to be worthy of the thick line it had in the map. Although it was very smooth road, there were quite a few stoplights and I wonder if we shouldn't have taken OH-95 to OH-13.
Well, you did end up on the busiest and most developed section of US-23. North of Delaware it's a pretty good road for a non-freeway.
Once when coming home from FL years ago, we got into a tremendous traffic jam just north of Atlanta. I-75 was not yet complete at Marietta, and you had to take a ramp with a sharp curve to get off. A semi had tipped, and it was blocked. People in motor homes had pulled off on to the shoulder and were cooking out. My dad got off the freeway when he could, and we found an old route through towns. I don't know if it was US-41 or an Old-41, but we made better time than on the freeway (that we could see several times). And we got to stop for ice cream.
It is entirely dependent on familiarity. When unfamiliar, I assess the way I would with any gamble, then exit because I'd rather have options than be stuck.
Familiar is a different story, and I'll try and refine some very convoluted routes until I know how to skip certain jams. Each involves an assessment and a choice at various points, taking into account things like rush-hour turn prohibitions (spreading like a disease here), one-ways, bottlenecks that seem bad but turn free-flowing, etc.
If I'm hopping off on a gamble, I try to pick a couple of distinctive vehicles and remember them. It can be a useful gauge if the main road remains in sight, or if I can see them ahead or behind when re-entering. This way I at least have some little bit to distinguish between simply feeling good and getting a worthwhile result. After a while, I've even used this feedback to gauge how bad the traffic has to be for me to take the alternate, with pretty reliable results (for guessing traffic jams, that is).
Quote from Agentsteel:
Quotethe worst one I've ever encountered is US-441 through Orlando: 120 reds out of 126 in the interval I decided to count.
(and no brown shields either.)
No brown shields? Just ask NE2 to poo on one for you.
QuoteWell, when you live in Texas you can opt for the frontage roads, but then about half of the traffic chooses that, too. I've had it work on occasion living in North Dallas.
I remember being in a traffic jam in Houston years ago, on the Katy Freeway, and seeing people off-road across the grassy median to use the frontage road vs. the actual freeway.