AARoads Forum

One feature of the current Pennsylvania Turnpike guide signing is that they include the interchange name (i.e. HARRISBURG EAST) in a separate banner at the top of the guide signs for a given exit.  AFAIK, this is currently the only toll road that provides this information on their BGS panels.  See an example panel at

https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania075/i-076_wb_exit_247_01.jpg

Do folks out there in AARoadsLand think this is a good idea that other toll roads should adopt when they next update their guide signs?  Or is it just one of those PTC "quirks" that should never be repeated anywhere else?

It's a PTC quirk as some other toll highway authorities do use the name of the interchange on the sign, but it is incorporated as a destination or road name, not separate from the rest of the sign.  For example:

ISTHA uses the road name or destination as the name of the exit, i.e. Exit 13, Boughton Road on I-355 is just that for its name, "Boughton Road"; or US-20 Hampshire Marengo on I-90 is named "Hampshire-Marengo".

The Indiana Toll Road does likewise, i.e. Exit 83, Mishawaka is named "Mishawaka", and Exit 77, South Bend Notre Dame is named "South Bend Notre Dame" and Exit 90 is just "Elkhart" with Exit 96 is named "Elkhart East", both as on the signs.  The only Indiana Toll Road exit with a different name than destination is Exit 72, US-31.  That's named "South Bend West".

Quote from: roadman on December 10, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
Do folks out there in AARoadsLand think this is a good idea that other toll roads should adopt when they next update their guide signs?  Or is it just one of those PTC "quirks" that should never be repeated anywhere else?

I think my answer would be neither.... I don't see any reason other toll roads should feel compelled to follow suit, though I wouldn't say it should never be repeated anywhere else either. 
I'll note that none of the Western PA PTC "expansion" highways have named interchanges.

In PA, people really do navigate by interchange names. Businesses are located off the Bedford, Breezewood, Bensalem, etc. exits. Most toll roads don't even have names for all of their exits. NY Thruway is about the only other one that does, off the top of my head. Maine might.

Quote from: Steve on December 10, 2013, 08:33:17 PM
Most toll roads don't even have names for all of their exits. NY Thruway is about the only other one that does, off the top of my head. Maine might.

The following have exit names on toll tickets:
Kansas (some disambiguated by route number)
Massachusetts
New Jersey (most have multiple names, so it's more of an exit list)
New York (some disambiguated by route number)

Ohio does not, putting only route numbers except where there is none.

I kind of like the named interchanges since it frees up space on signs for other control cities beyond the immediate interchange.  Take I-80 at IL 47:  (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.385406,-88.427968&spn=0.028753,0.066047&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.385338,-88.42807&panoid=_PJXmtJrQ8bmdZ5j3vWKiA&cbp=12,84.8,,0,-5.5 (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.385406,-88.427968&spn=0.028753,0.066047&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.385338,-88.42807&panoid=_PJXmtJrQ8bmdZ5j3vWKiA&cbp=12,84.8,,0,-5.5)

If Morris was listed as the interchange name (or maybe Morris West given the new interchange at Brisbin Road), Dwight could be used to better aid navigation.

(Or IDOT could just have three control cities)

---

There's also the Nebraska way of having the interchange/exit name for the next exit on the distance sign after the previous exit:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.822059,-97.479801&spn=0.029001,0.066047&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.822049,-97.480076&panoid=4xCKB0B3yciZCnUk4OCErQ&cbp=12,294.88,,1,3.59 (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.822059,-97.479801&spn=0.029001,0.066047&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.822049,-97.480076&panoid=4xCKB0B3yciZCnUk4OCErQ&cbp=12,294.88,,1,3.59)

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 10, 2013, 09:26:36 PM
I kind of like the named interchanges since it frees up space on signs for other control cities beyond the immediate interchange.

(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania200/i-276_wb_exit_326_03.jpg)
Not quite :bigass:

Florida's Turnpike used to have names on all of their interchanges.  It was not signed like PTC does, but Exit 254 for Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando used to be "Orlando South" and signed as such, but as a control point and not in uppercase like PTC uses on top the sign.

Though, PTC does have a good idea,  the current Exit 254 could have the Orlando South banner in caps on top with its current route shields as no control points are used anymore except for maybe one NB sign, but it may be the OBT street name.  Florida's Turnpike seemed to go more for urban type of signing since they converted to coin drop in the 1990's north of Three Lakes in Osceola County, especially in Orange County.

It could be as follows:
Exit 254- Universal
Exit 265- Holland East- West Expwy.
Exit 267A- Western Beltway
Exit 267B- Ocoee (before the SR 408 extension west of Pine Hills this was called Orlando West & Ocoee)
Exit 272- Oakland (the traffic reports on radio call it the Oakland Exchange)
Exit 285- Groveland
Exit 289- Clermont
Exit 296- Leesburg
Exit 304- Wildwood

This anyway is Central Florida.

Quote from: roadman65 on December 10, 2013, 09:56:25 PM

It could be as follows:
Exit 254- Universal
Exit 265- Holland East- West Expwy.
Exit 267A- Western Beltway
Exit 267B- Ocoee (before the SR 408 extension west of Pine Hills this was called Orlando West & Ocoee)
Exit 272- Oakland (the traffic reports on radio call it the Oakland Exchange)
Exit 285- Groveland
Exit 289- Clermont
Exit 296- Leesburg
Exit 304- Wildwood

This anyway is Central Florida.

Those go here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9277.0).

Quote from: NE2 on December 10, 2013, 09:39:07 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 10, 2013, 09:26:36 PM
I kind of like the named interchanges since it frees up space on signs for other control cities beyond the immediate interchange.

(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania200/i-276_wb_exit_326_03.jpg)
Not quite :bigass:

http://goo.gl/maps/1TDLR

This is interesting because the US 220 Bedford Exit used to have Bedford mentioned twice going WB before PTC converted all of their button copy signs to reflective back in the late 1980's.  Now it is only listed on top and only Johnstown & Altoona are used for US 220 and Buddy Schuster's highway. 

I also believe that Willow Hill at the PA 75 Willow Hill Exit were listed twice on the EB guides and were changed to include Mercerburg instead.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on December 10, 2013, 08:02:29 PMI'll note that none of the Western PA PTC "expansion" highways have named interchanges.

Neither do the newer, EZ-Pass-Only interchanges (Exit 320/PA 29, Exit 340/Virginia Dr. & Exit 352/PA 132) along the mainline East-West Turnpike.  Only the older interchanges along the mainline PA Turnpike & NE Extension have named interchanges and corresponding signage.  Such convention obviously dates back to a bygone era.

OTOH, it's my understanding that the new I-95 interchange was going to be named Philadelphia; which is the reason why the old Philadelphia interchange (Exit 351/US 1) was renamed Bensalem several years ago.  So the PTC may not have ruled out naming new interchanges completely.

The most redundant interchange name/control city exit BGS off the PA Turnpike has to be this one.
http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9 (http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9)
Note: a newer Clearview variant is now there but contains the same exact message.

Quote from: PHLBOS on December 11, 2013, 11:17:26 AM

Quote from: Mr_Northside on December 10, 2013, 08:02:29 PMI'll note that none of the Western PA PTC "expansion" highways have named interchanges.

Neither do the newer, EZ-Pass-Only interchanges (Exit 320/PA 29, Exit 340/Virginia Dr. & Exit 352/PA 132) along the mainline East-West Turnpike.  Only the older interchanges along the mainline PA Turnpike & NE Extension have named interchanges and corresponding signage.  Such convention obviously dates back to a bygone era.

OTOH, it's my understanding that the new I-95 interchange was going to be named Philadelphia; which is the reason why the old Philadelphia interchange (Exit 351/US 1) was renamed Bensalem several years ago.  So the PTC may not have ruled out naming new interchanges completely.

I suspect that it's "on the toll tickets"/"not on the toll tickets" rather than old/new.

QuoteThe most redundant interchange name/control city exit BGS off the PA Turnpike has to be this one.
http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9 (http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9)
Note: a newer Clearview variant is now there but contains the same exact message.

Pretty sure the Norristown one I posted has it beat.

Quote from: vdeane on December 11, 2013, 11:24:22 AM

QuoteThe most redundant interchange name/control city exit BGS off the PA Turnpike has to be this one.
http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9 (http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9)
Note: a newer Clearview variant is now there but contains the same exact message.

Pretty sure the Norristown one I posted has it beat.

Look again, the name for Exit 266 contains both the listed control cities for that interchange whereas the Norristown interchange is a one-for-one redundancy. 
Side note: back when Germantown Pike was part of US 422, Philadelphia used to be listed as a destination along w/Norristown.  One older BGS that contained both along I-276 Eastbound remained until the late 90s/early 2000s.

Quote from: roadman on December 10, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
One feature of the current Pennsylvania Turnpike guide signing is that they include the interchange name (i.e. HARRISBURG EAST) in a separate banner at the top of the guide signs for a given exit.  AFAIK, this is currently the only toll road that provides this information on their BGS panels.  See an example panel at

https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania075/i-076_wb_exit_247_01.jpg

Do folks out there in AARoadsLand think this is a good idea that other toll roads should adopt when they next update their guide signs?  Or is it just one of those PTC "quirks" that should never be repeated anywhere else?

What I actually like even more is when you're going entering the PA Turnpike via ramp, the BGSs state the range of exits one will encounter if you go one direction, and the range of exits one encounters going the other direction.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 11, 2013, 11:44:07 AMWhat I actually like even more is when you're going entering the PA Turnpike via ramp, the BGSs state the range of exits one will encounter if you go one direction, and the range of exits one encounters going the other direction.

NY does similar at the northern end of the GSP at the NYS Thruway/I-87/287.  Although, they place the exit range via exit tabs mounted on top of the BGS'.
http://goo.gl/maps/uzxgO (http://goo.gl/maps/uzxgO)

I've never seen all that much need for interchange names, but if they're already there and they've become well-known, I don't see any reason to remove them–sort of like the Smoots on that bridge in Boston or the road names for the "expressways" in New York City.

I suppose one potential benefit to interchange names in the Pennsylvania Turnpike context is that they provide an additional form of guidance for people who have trouble remembering the new exit numbers, especially if said people are the ones giving directions.

The point about interchange names being on toll tickets is likely one of declining relevance as electronic toll collection becomes ever more popular (although it still surprises me how many regular users of some tolled facilities refuse to go electronic).

Quote from: PHLBOS on December 11, 2013, 11:42:35 AM

Quote from: vdeane on December 11, 2013, 11:24:22 AM

QuoteThe most redundant interchange name/control city exit BGS off the PA Turnpike has to be this one.
http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9 (http://goo.gl/maps/jLGH9)
Note: a newer Clearview variant is now there but contains the same exact message.

Pretty sure the Norristown one I posted has it beat.

Look again, the name for Exit 266 contains both the listed control cities for that interchange whereas the Norristown interchange is a one-for-one redundancy. 
Side note: back when Germantown Pike was part of US 422, Philadelphia used to be listed as a destination along w/Norristown.  One older BGS that contained both along I-276 Eastbound remained until the late 90s/early 2000s.

The BGS you linked to aslo includes a state highway shield.  Last I checked, THAT is not redundant with the interchange name!  The Norristown one is interesting because the sign literally contains no information aside from the name and number of the exit.

Quote from: vdeane on December 11, 2013, 12:01:11 PMThe Norristown one is interesting because the sign literally contains no information aside from the name and number of the exit.

Fair enough; but as I mentioned earlier, older BGS' for that interchange did contain a route shield (US 422) and an additional city (Philadelphia) at one time.  So it wasn't always 100% redundant as it is today.

Theoretically, all the exit BGS along eastbound I-276 should contain (TO) 476 SOUTH above the Norristown destination (per the advance-BGS 2 miles away does) due to the interchange having a direct connection to I-476 South itself.  Yes, I'm aware of I-476 shields on the preceeding BGS' for the Valley Forge interchange; but some motorists might use the Turnpike (I-276) to Norristown (to pick up I-476 South) if the traffic along I-76 eastbound between King of Prussia and Conshocken is a parking lot.

Fore-mentioned 2-mile advance BGS in question http://goo.gl/maps/8H5bW (http://goo.gl/maps/8H5bW)
Note: this BGS replaced the last remaining 70s-era BGS that listed Philadelphia along w/Norristown and once had a US 422 shield; an I-476 shield was sloppily slapped on in the early 90s when the Mid-County/Blue Route connection was completed.

I do like that unique feature on the PA Turnpike, even with some redundancies.

I remember that Rand McNally would list the interchange names for the NY Thruway in a separate box on the New York page.  These were in the late 1960's/early 1970's issues.  I believe that the PA Turnpike interchanges were listed also on the Pennsylvania page.  I cannot remember if the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, or any New Jersey Turnpike/Garden State Parkway interchanges were listed.

Rand McNally did list all interchange names for all state toll roads such as NJ, NY, PA, OH, IN, MD, DE, and even KS.  All had sequential numbering back then.

The PA Turnpike originally (prior to 1982) had the 2 mile guide sign as well as the at exit guide say the route number and interchange name on them.  The 1 mile guide and the 1/4 mile (signed NEXT EXIT) had the two control cities plus via the route number.  It was not like it is now with the box on top and the route number/ control cities below.

The Willow Hill Exit was as follows:

2 Mile- Route 75 Willow Hill  (yes the PTC used "Route for State Routes)
1 Mile -  Fort Loudon- Mercerberg via Route 75 (WB)
1 Mile-  Chambersburg- Hagerstown, MD  via Route 75(EB)
1/4 Mile- Fort Loudon- Mercerberg via Route 75 (WB)
1/4 Mile- Chambersburg- Hagerstown, MD via Route 75
At exit- Route 75- Willow Hill

This was standard for all state routes.  Hagerstown was used EB for the PA Turnpike because prior to I-70 there was no road leading south to Hancock, MD to reach US 40.  It was removed in 1984 when PTC realized that I-70 goes there from Breezewood.

For Bedford "US 220" was used up until 1984 on all of the guide signs there.  The 2 and at exit read Bedford as control point.  The others at 1 and one quarter mile used "Johnstown- Altoona via US 220" on them.

You needed one more option on the poll:
"Yes, it's great for historical reasons on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, but unnecessary elsewhere."

The Pennsy is the grandfather of all American turnpikes, and the exit names hearken back to an era where drivers expected to be able to enter and exit a road pretty much anywhere they expected. Exits were a novel idea, and naming them was a good way to emphasize the point.

Quote from: roadman65 on December 11, 2013, 11:35:34 PM
Rand McNally did list all interchange names for all state toll roads such as NJ, NY, PA, OH, IN, MD, DE, and even KS.  All had sequential numbering back then.

Rand McNally did similar for the Mass Pike (including the Boston Extension) as well.

Quote from: amroad17 on December 11, 2013, 11:21:01 PMI remember that Rand McNally would list the interchange names for the NY Thruway in a separate box on the New York page.  These were in the late 1960's/early 1970's issues.

By separate box, do you mean a boxed label next to the interchange number (black circle w/the number in white) or a separate box off the side that listed all the numbered/named interchanges or both?  Rand McNally did both until they changed their map graphics in the early-to-mid 1980s; the large altas changed first (1980) and the smaller atlas & fold-out maps changed later.

Quote from: amroad17 on December 11, 2013, 11:21:01 PM
I do like that unique feature on the PA Turnpike, even with some redundancies.

I remember that Rand McNally would list the interchange names for the NY Thruway in a separate box on the New York page.  These were in the late 1960's/early 1970's issues.  I believe that the PA Turnpike interchanges were listed also on the Pennsylvania page.  I cannot remember if the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, or any New Jersey Turnpike/Garden State Parkway interchanges were listed.

IIRC, Rand McNally used to do the same for the Massachusetts Turnpike on the Massachusetts page.

Quote from: theline on December 12, 2013, 01:53:09 AM
You needed one more option on the poll:
"Yes, it's great for historical reasons on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, but unnecessary elsewhere."

The Pennsy is the grandfather of all American turnpikes, and the exit names hearken back to an era where drivers expected to be able to enter and exit a road pretty much anywhere they expected. Exits were a novel idea, and naming them was a good way to emphasize the point.

Good idea - I've modified the poll accordingly.  People can revise their voting if they so desire.

Quote from: roadman on December 12, 2013, 01:25:21 PM

Quote from: theline on December 12, 2013, 01:53:09 AM
You needed one more option on the poll:
"Yes, it's great for historical reasons on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, but unnecessary elsewhere."

The Pennsy is the grandfather of all American turnpikes, and the exit names hearken back to an era where drivers expected to be able to enter and exit a road pretty much anywhere they expected. Exits were a novel idea, and naming them was a good way to emphasize the point.

Good idea - I've modified the poll accordingly.  People can revise their voting if they so desire.

Not sure if it's a web-site glitch or not; but I am not able to revise my vote.

Interesting.  I had checked off the "allow people to revise vote" (or whatever it's called) option when I created the poll, but that option is now not showing up since I added the additional choice.

Quote from: PHLBOS on December 12, 2013, 08:53:45 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 11, 2013, 11:35:34 PM
Rand McNally did list all interchange names for all state toll roads such as NJ, NY, PA, OH, IN, MD, DE, and even KS.  All had sequential numbering back then.

Rand McNally did similar for the Mass Pike (including the Boston Extension) as well.

Quote from: amroad17 on December 11, 2013, 11:21:01 PMI remember that Rand McNally would list the interchange names for the NY Thruway in a separate box on the New York page.  These were in the late 1960's/early 1970's issues.

By separate box, do you mean a boxed label next to the interchange number (black circle w/the number in white) or a separate box off the side that listed all the numbered/named interchanges or both?  Rand McNally did both until they changed their map graphics in the early-to-mid 1980s; the large altas changed first (1980) and the smaller atlas & fold-out maps changed later.

It was a separate box to the side of the page.  The interchanges were marked with the small black circle w/ the white number w/out the interchange name, except on the individual city maps I believe.

I remember those boxes.  The ones you talk about feature the number and name in bold font, and the road name or route number in normal font next to it.

With NJ Turnpike only one interchange name appeared in bold while the other was fine print except for former Exit 15 (now 15E) had both Newark and Jersey City in bold with only US 1 & 9 in regular print.  Other such as former Exit 11 (that only served US 9 at the time) had  it with Exit 11- Woodbridge- The Amboys- US 9.  Only Woodbridge got bolded instead of both like on Exit 15.  Exit 8 was also Exit 8- Hightstown- Trenton- NJ 33 and many other were one bold and one regular too.

If "Appropriate for Pennsylvania Turnpike" had not been added as an option, I would have chosen "Unnecessary," but not because it leads to larger signs.  In the special case of turnpikes which operate a closed-ticket system, interchange names have the special benefit of relatability with interchange labels on paper tickets.  However, this benefit will vanish sooner or later when even older public-authority turnpikes switch to ETC-only operation.  Many existing closed-ticket turnpikes, like the Kansas Turnpike, still use paper tickets but have transitioned from implied interchange labels on guide signs (e.g. "El Dorado North" for US 77 even though there is no city called El Dorado North, "Admire" for US 56 even though Admire has fewer than 160 people and almost nobody actually exits at US 56 to go to it) to a more vanilla-MUTCD approach, without any pain (US 77 is now just "El Dorado," US 56 is now "Council Grove/Osage City").

I'd argue also that use of interchange names is actually more troublesome on the Pennsylvania Turnpike than it would be elsewhere since it adds to the message loading on the length between Pittsburgh and Carlisle, where traffic is heavy and curve design is grossly beneath current standards.

I think the interchange name should be shown, but incorporated in the destinations on the main sign. Additional destinations can be shown on a supplemental sign. The poll needs another category for that preference. And all the text should be the regulation size as per the MUTCD.

Perhaps, the interchange name could change to reflect what is currently on the sign.

For example, exit 343 on the Penn Turnpike is the Willow Grove Interchange.  The sign says PA-611, Doylestown Jenkintown.

Maybe instead of retaining "Willow Grove Interchange", we simply call this "Doylestown Jenkintown Interchange"

Now let me get this straight mrsman. You say the interchange should be named for where it actually is as shown by the destinations on the exit signs? What a concept!

Well, ditto Exit-358. Instead of calling it Delaware Valley, they could call it "Levittown-Bristol". At least they got Exit-351 right when they renamed it "Bensalem".

I know.  It's so sensible it will never happen.  Maybe a topic for Fictional Highways.

Quote from: SignBridge on January 03, 2014, 09:12:08 PMAt least they got Exit-351 right when they renamed it "Bensalem".

Come again?  PTC actually went backwards with that one.  That interchange was originally called Philadelphia, which actually matched at least one control destination on the BGS' (the other destination being Trenton). 

Outside of the new name, which was done in anticipation of the new I-95 interchange possibly being named Philadelphia when completed, Bensalem does not appear anywhere else on those exit BGS'.

I believe that the Maine Turnpike also historically used interchange names - at least until when the turnpike was resigned and widened over the last 10 years.