How often are these Interstates? Unless otherwise specified, I'm looking at the three largest non-suburb cities in each state, plus the state capital, and how well they are connected. If all connections are Interstates, nothing is listed below.
*Alaska, Hawaii: fuck off.
*Arizona: Phoenix-Yuma includes expressway SR 85
*Delaware: Dover-anything includes freeway SR 1
*Florida: Tallahassee-Miami includes freeway Florida's Turnpike
*Indiana: Indianapolis-Evansville includes future I-69; Indianapolis-South Bend (close fourth) includes under-construction freeway US 31
*Kentucky: Frankfort-Bowling Green includes expressway US 127 and freeway BG Parkway; Frankford-Owensboro (close fourth) includes expressway US 231 (in Indiana!)
*Michigan: Lansing-Ann Arbor (close fourth) includes freeway US 23
*Minnesota: St. Paul-Rochester includes expressway US 52
*Mississippi: Jackson-Gulfport includes expressway US 49
*Missouri: Jefferson City-Kansas City includes expressway US 63; Jefferson City-St. Louis includes expressway US 54; Jefferson City-Springfield includes expressway US 54 and mostly-expressway Route 5
*Montana: Helena-Billings includes two-lane US 287; Helena-Missoula includes two-lane US 12
*Nevada: Carson City-Las Vegas includes two-lane US 50-95A-95
*New Hampshire: Concord-Nashua includes freeway Everett Turnpike
*Ohio: Columbus-Toledo (close fourth) includes mostly-expressway US 23/SR 15
*Pennsylvania: Harrisburg-Erie (close fourth) includes mostly-freeway US 322, maybe a two-lane cutoff beyond there
*Rhode Island: Providence-Woonsocket includes mostly-freeway RI 146 (treating Pawtucket as a non-suburb)
*South Dakota: Pierre-Sioux Falls includes expressway US 83; Pierre-Rapid City includes two-lane US 14; Pierre-Aberdeen includes two-lane US 83-12 (who cares about close-fourth Brookings, Watertown)
*Texas: Austin-Houston includes expressway US 290 or SH 71
*Vermont: Montpelier-Rutland includes two-lane VT 107-100/US 4 (but everything's so small in Vermont)
*Virginia: Richmond-Roanoke (fourth if you count the DC area) includes expressway US 460
*Washington: Olympia-Spokane includes mostly-freeway SR 18
*West Virginia: Charlestown-Wheeling (close fifth) includes two-lane WV 2 (or is I-77 to I-70 actually better?)
*Wisconsin: Madison-Green Bay includes expressway US 151, two-lane WI 26, future I-41
*Wyoming: Cheyenne-Gillette (close fourth) includes two-lane WY 59
Did you forget Boston - Lowell by US 3? Or did you consider Lowell a suburb?
Texas, for one thing, has one freeway that links its capital with its second and third largest cities being I-35.
Also you could form a triangle between all the dots of the states largest cities and capital. I-10, I-35, and I-45 together will link all four.
In New York, strictly speaking I-95 goes through Manhattan, but in practice you have to travel a substantial distance on NY 9A, the FDR Drive, or the local streets to get to an interstate taking you to any other city in the state if you're coming from Midtown.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*Kentucky: Frankfort-Bowling Green includes expressway US 127 and freeway BG Parkway; Frankford-Owensboro (close fourth) includes expressway US 231 (in Indiana!)
Are you deliberately omitting Lexington and Louisville because they are merged city-county governments?
I didn't realize BG had overtaken Owensboro for the state's third-largest city. And you could substitute 64-265-65 and have an all-freeway routing.
The wording looked a little confusing, but I believe he was listing connections between the capital and those 4 largest cities that were not avaliable via interstate. That's why Indy to Fort Wayne via I-69 or Gary/Hammond via I-65 isn't mentioned, those have an interstate connection. Louisville and Lexington are both connected to Frankfort via I-64, so it's not listed.
Quote from: 1 on December 22, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Did you forget Boston - Lowell by US 3? Or did you consider Lowell a suburb?
Lowell is not one of the three largest non-suburb cities in Massachusetts.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 22, 2013, 08:16:02 PM
Are you deliberately omitting Lexington and Louisville because they are merged city-county governments?
No, I'm omitting them because they're connected to Frankfort by Interstates. And don't go saying I-64 doesn't serve Frankfort or Lexington.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*South Dakota: Pierre-Sioux Falls includes expressway US 83; Pierre-Rapid City includes two-lane US 14; Pierre-Aberdeen includes two-lane US 83-12 (who cares about close-fourth Brookings, Watertown)
Pierre to anything is partially non-interstate.
And, at least with people I know, no one cares about Aberdeen and Watertown, but Brookings is home to the state's largest university...
(And if anyone ever has to stay in Aberdeen (bad idea), the Super 8 has free beer. Or at least they did this summer.)
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 10:51:27 PMAnd don't go saying I-64 doesn't serve Frankfort or Lexington.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*New Jersey: Trenton-anything includes freeway NJ 29 (but the whole state is a suburb so nerr)
And don't go saying I-95, 195, and 295 don't serve Trenton.
Sure, you get that one.
Does US 1 count for New Jersey? I mean, it's a freeway through Trenton, but after that it just becomes a regular 4-6 lane road with at-grade intersections. It leads to the concurrency of US 1 and US 9 which goes into the city limits of Newark.
Quote from: Steve on December 22, 2013, 11:53:50 PM
And don't go saying I-95, 195, and 295 don't serve Trenton.
Well, I-95 goes
around Trenton technically - the only way to get to Trenton off of I-95 in that vicinity is to take US 206 South or to take NJ 29. 195 definitely serves Trenton (195 downgrades to 29 at it's western terminus which leads traffic to the Trenton Tunnel and shortly after Downtown Trenton), 295 serves Trenton traffic since it runs through Hamilton Township which is adjacent to Trenton.
For a state capital, it sure has a fucked up transit system... but then again, it's not a huge city (with a pop. of ~80k), and y'know, it's
Trenton, which could definitely use some help before it turns into New Jersey's next Camden...
Not to mention US 1 serves Woodbridge and Edison that are also large population centers of New Jersey. then you have Jersey City, the second largest city in the state, also served by US 1.
It seems US 1 serves the top four populated cities in the Garden State. Yes, non of the interstates do enter Trenton proper, and only pass within suburbs of it.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
How often are these Interstates? Unless otherwise specified, I'm looking at the three largest non-suburb cities in each state, plus the state capital, and how well they are connected. If all connections are Interstates, nothing is listed below.
*West Virginia: Charlestown-Wheeling (close fifth) includes two-lane WV 2 (or is I-77 to I-70 actually better?)
As stated, Wheeling does not meet the defination being a "close fifth" (and probably 8th in the next Census). The largest three would be Huntington (I-64), Parkersburg (I-77) and Morganhole (I-79). In any event the get-you-lost machine (GPS, or to knitpickers, GPS based mapping devices) would say that 77 to 70 would be the prefered route. It is 42 miles further than taking the 2 lane WV 2, and its a close call either way. Actually, I-77 to OH 7 (to whatever bridge back to WV you prefer) is better than WV 2 based on road quality.
As to Virginia, again the get-you-lost machine would call for I-64, staying on I-81 after its multiplex, to I-581 is at least arguable over US 460, which, while all 4 lane, varries in quality greatly across Virginia to Roanoke.
South Carolina: Columbia-Myrtle Beach requires using non-freeway US 76/US 501.
(This is by metro area)
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 10:51:27 PM
No, I'm omitting them because they're connected to Frankfort by Interstates. And don't go saying I-64 doesn't serve Frankfort or Lexington.
I've never been one to make that claim. I think the city limits of Frankfort have been extended to include one or perhaps both I-64 exits now. And I'm pretty sure they covered the US 27/68 exit even before the city and county merged.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 23, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
As stated, Wheeling does not meet the defination being a "close fifth"
http://factfinder2.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/PEP/2012/PEPANNRES/0400000US54.16200
Failure.
Charleston 51,018
Huntington 49,160
Parkersburg 31,261
Morgantown 31,000
Wheeling 28,213
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
I'm looking at the three largest non-suburb cities in each state
What, exactly, would constitute a suburb city in WV?
Barboursville? St. Albans? South Charleston? Star City? Vienna?
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
How often are these Interstates? Unless otherwise specified, I'm looking at the three largest non-suburb cities in each state, plus the state capital, and how well they are connected. If all connections are Interstates, nothing is listed below.
*Alaska, Hawaii: fuck off.
*Arizona: Phoenix-Yuma includes expressway SR 85
*Delaware: Dover-anything includes freeway SR 1
*Florida: Tallahassee-Miami includes freeway Florida's Turnpike
*Indiana: Indianapolis-Evansville includes future I-69; Indianapolis-South Bend (close fourth) includes under-construction freeway US 31
*Kentucky: Frankfort-Bowling Green includes expressway US 127 and freeway BG Parkway; Frankford-Owensboro (close fourth) includes expressway US 231 (in Indiana!)
*Michigan: Lansing-Ann Arbor (close fourth) includes freeway US 23
*Minnesota: St. Paul-Rochester includes expressway US 52
*Mississippi: Jackson-Gulfport includes expressway US 49
*Missouri: Jefferson City-Kansas City includes expressway US 63; Jefferson City-St. Louis includes expressway US 54; Jefferson City-Springfield includes expressway US 54 and mostly-expressway Route 5
*Montana: Helena-Billings includes two-lane US 287; Helena-Missoula includes two-lane US 12
*Nevada: Carson City-Las Vegas includes two-lane US 50-95A-95
*New Hampshire: Concord-Nashua includes freeway Everett Turnpike
*Ohio: Columbus-Toledo (close fourth) includes mostly-expressway US 23/SR 15
*Pennsylvania: Harrisburg-Erie (close fourth) includes mostly-freeway US 322, maybe a two-lane cutoff beyond there
*Rhode Island: Providence-Woonsocket includes mostly-freeway RI 146 (treating Pawtucket as a non-suburb)
*South Dakota: Pierre-Sioux Falls includes expressway US 83; Pierre-Rapid City includes two-lane US 14; Pierre-Aberdeen includes two-lane US 83-12 (who cares about close-fourth Brookings, Watertown)
*Texas: Austin-Houston includes expressway US 290 or SH 71
*Vermont: Montpelier-Rutland includes two-lane VT 107-100/US 4 (but everything's so small in Vermont)
*Virginia: Richmond-Roanoke (fourth if you count the DC area) includes expressway US 460
*Washington: Olympia-Spokane includes mostly-freeway SR 18
*West Virginia: Charlestown-Wheeling (close fifth) includes two-lane WV 2 (or is I-77 to I-70 actually better?)
*Wisconsin: Madison-Green Bay includes expressway US 151, two-lane WI 26, future I-41
*Wyoming: Cheyenne-Gillette (close fourth) includes two-lane WY 59
AZ 85 Is currently a 2 to 4 lane local road between I-10 and I-8 and under reconstruction to Interstate Standards from Maricopa Rd In Gila Bend to I-10
A By-pass of Gila Bend is planned for after 2018.
Looks like via I-77 to I-70 is 13 minutes faster than via WV 2 for Charleston-Wheeling.
Quote from: SD Mapman on December 22, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
And, at least with people I know, no one cares about Watertown
But... Terry Redlin... :-(
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 24, 2013, 12:26:23 AM
Looks like via I-77 to I-70 is 13 minutes faster than via WV 2 for Charleston-Wheeling.
If you trust the Goog's time.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*New Hampshire: Concord-Nashua includes freeway Everett Turnpike
Depends on your definition of "
freeway." Two tolls on that route. And Manchester, in the middle of that route, is larger than Nashua by about 23,000 people.
Quote from: SidS1045 on December 24, 2013, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*New Hampshire: Concord-Nashua includes freeway Everett Turnpike
Depends on your definition of "freeway." Two tolls on that route. And Manchester, in the middle of that route, is larger than Nashua by about 23,000 people.
Again, the term "freeway" means free of cross traffic, free-flowing, not how the road is supported. There is no such thing as a "free" road. Either it is paid for by taxes or tolls. Hence, this is a toll-freeway instead of a tax-supported-freeway.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*Ohio: Columbus-Toledo (close fourth) includes mostly-expressway US 23/SR 15
For the record, Ohio had been trying to build an Interstate between Toledo and Columbus: I-73, with an I-75 multiplex north of Findlay. I think the governor said something about building more overpasses on the US-23/OH-15 route. Indeed, there are two relatively new 3-tiered interchanges (sort of "middle-of-nowhere" in appearance IMHO) at both ends of US-23's multiplex with US-30 around Upper Sandusky, though this could be just as much toward the freeway-ization of US-30 across the state.
The major block preventing a full freeway connection between the two cities is the stretch of US-23 between Delaware and Worthington. There is simply too much development along that corridor, and as we speak the US-23/I-270 interchange is being
downgraded (discussed on another thread) from a full cloverleaf to a signalized parclo. An underpass is being built below the first intersection north of there, though, but it's still a long way to Delaware. There was a plan at one time to build an almost-lateral connector between I-71 and US-23 just south of Alum Creek Lake, but again, with the development in the area, that ship has sailed.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
*Missouri: Jefferson City-Kansas City includes expressway US 63; Jefferson City-St. Louis includes expressway US 54; Jefferson City-Springfield includes expressway US 54 and mostly-expressway Route 5
There is no good way to get from northwestern Missouri to southeastern Missouri. All the routes are either two lanes in places or go way out of the way.
Quote from: bugo on December 26, 2013, 12:09:02 AM
There is no good reason to get from northwestern Missouri to southeastern Missouri.
Fixed for you.
The all-Interstate distance (or the mostly-four-lane distance via Springfield) is 25% greater than the straight line distance. This is better than the about 40% you'd get by taking two sides of the triangle. What do you want, a road radiating out from every city, every 10 degrees?
Quote from: NE2 on December 26, 2013, 01:04:32 AM
What do you want, a road radiating out from every city, every 10 degrees?
This happens in Boston.
1A, 107, 1, 28, 93, 38, 3, 2A, 2, 20, 90, 30, 9, VFW/1, 28, 93/3
Quote from: NE2 on December 26, 2013, 01:04:32 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 26, 2013, 12:09:02 AM
There is no good reason to get from northwestern Missouri to southeastern Missouri.
Fixed for you.
Your fix sucks–there's plenty of reason to do that. Kansas City—Memphis, for example?
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 26, 2013, 04:44:26 PM
Your fix sucks–there's plenty of reason to do that. Kansas City—Memphis, for example?
Why would you go through southeastern Missouri? 49-7-13-60-63 is much more direct.
If going by the three largest non-suburban cities in a state, then Hattiesburg would be in third place. There is no freeway that goes directly from Jackson to Hattiesburg.
Quote from: golden eagle on December 26, 2013, 07:20:21 PM
If going by the three largest non-suburban cities in a state, then Hattiesburg would be in third place. There is no freeway that goes directly from Jackson to Hattiesburg.
I listed Jackson-Gulfport, which goes right past Hattiesburg.
Richmond-Roanoke could also be done 360-460. More direct to Burkeville but probably slower given the development in Chesterfield County these days.
Quote from: Takumi on December 26, 2013, 08:17:34 PM
Richmond-Roanoke could also be done 360-460.
Yeah, that's what I meant. 460 from Petersburg is no shorter than I-64 to I-81.
Quote from: dgolub on December 22, 2013, 07:18:04 PM
In New York, strictly speaking I-95 goes through Manhattan, but in practice you have to travel a substantial distance on NY 9A, the FDR Drive, or the local streets to get to an interstate taking you to any other city in the state if you're coming from Midtown.
The City of Greater New York is the largest non-capital city in New York State and the largest city in New York State. It is connected directly to the capital via I-87, which becomes the New York State Thruway at the Yonkers/Bronx border, as well as to the other two largest (also non-capital) cities in New York, Buffalo and Rochester (the latter via I-490 or I-390). Going down the line of largest cities, you have Yonkers next (already covered) and Syracuse (which is on the freeway between Albany and Rochester).
You have to go down to the fifthteenth largest city, Rome, to find one that isn't serviced by an Interstate, and that's pushing it. Long Beach in Nassau County, the next one down, might count given the commute time (and that lame toll bridge), but really, Ithaca (#20) is the biggest.
Connections between Baton Rouge and other large cities in Louisiana:
1) New Orleans - I-10
2) Baton Rouge - natch
3) Shreveport - I-10 to I-49 (US 190 to I-49 is shorter, but time savings is marginal)
4) Metairie - I-10 (Metairie is not really a city, just a massive patch of unincorporated suburbia)
5) Lafayette - I-10
6) Lake Charles - I-10
7) Kenner - I-10 (see a pattern?)
8) Bossier City - I-10 to I-49 to I-20 (to center of city; there are shorter cutoffs leading to the Barksdale area that require departing the interstate)
9) Monroe - I-110 to US 61 to US 425 to I-20 (involves going through MS! - there are routes that stay entirely in La. [LA 15] but they are slower and less direct)
10) Alexandria - I-10 to I-49 (try LA 1 for the scenic route)
11) Houma - either LA 1 to LA 20 to LA 24 or I-10 to LA 22 to LA 70 to LA 70 Spur to LA 1 to LA 20 to LA 24 (either way takes way too long)
From there on we only have suburbs of larger cities or smaller regional centers to work with.
For Massachusetts:
1) Boston - :spin:
2) Worcester - I-90
3) Springfield - I-90
4) Lowell - US 3
5) New Bedford - MA 24 to MA 140
6) Brockton - MA 24
7) Lynn - US 1 to MA 1A or 107 (depending on location)
8) Fall River - MA 24
9) Lawrence - I-93 to I-495
10) Framingham - I-90
For New Hampshire:
1) Manchester - I-93
2) Nashua - Everett Turnpike
3) Concord - Everett Turnpike to US 3 to MA 62 jk, :spin:
4) Derry - I-93
5) Dover - US 4
6) Rochester - US 202
7) Salem - I-93
In California, Sacramento to:
Los Angeles: I-5
San Diego: I-5
San Jose: I-80, I-680
San Francisco: I-80
Fresno: CA 99
Long Beach: I-5, I-710
Oakland: I-80, I-880
Bakersfield: CA 99
Anaheim: I-5
Santa Ana: I-5
Riverside: I-5, CA 60
Stockton: I-5 or CA 99
Chula Vista: I-5
Fremont: I-80, I-680
Irvine: I-5
San Bernardino: I-5, I-10 (or I-210, CA 210)
Modesto: CA 99
Oxnard: I-5, CA 126, CA 118, CA 232
Fontana: I-5, I-210, CA 210
Moreno Valley: I-5, CA 60
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 26, 2013, 04:44:26 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 26, 2013, 01:04:32 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 26, 2013, 12:09:02 AM
There is no good reason to get from northwestern Missouri to southeastern Missouri.
Fixed for you.
Your fix sucks–there's plenty of reason to do that. Kansas City—Memphis, for example?
I would say 71/49/540 and I-40 is a pretty good choice, and getting better.
Quote from: Captain Jack on January 03, 2014, 08:54:12 AM
I would say 71/49/540 and I-40 is a pretty good choice, and getting better.
You would.
Quote from: 1 on January 02, 2014, 08:31:24 PM
For Massachusetts:
1) Boston - :spin:
2) Worcester - I-90
3) Springfield - I-90
I-90 will not get you into either Worcester or Springfield without connecting to another road. Worcester should read "I-90 to I-290, MA-12 or MA-146." Springfield is "I-90 to US-5, I-291 or I-91."
For Oregon, I'll arbitrarily choose to list all cities >= 20,000 people (according to Wikipedia), ignoring cities like Gresham, Springfield, Beaverton, etc., which are basically suburbs. If I omitted a city that you feel isn't a suburb, too bad :P
Portland: I-5
Eugene: I-5
Salem: capital
Bend: OR-22 and US-20
Medford: I-5 (TIL Bend is now larger than Medford, according to Wikipedia at least)
Corvallis: I-5 and US-20/OR-34
Albany: I-5
Grants Pass: I-5
McMinnville: OR-22 and OR-99W
Redmond: OR-22, US-20 and OR-126
Woodburn: I-5 (How the hell is Woodburn this big? I thought it was just a factory outlet mall and fast food; it's density is 4x what K-Falls is, wow...)
Newberg: I-5 and OR-219
Roseburg: I-5
Klamath Falls: I-5, OR-58 and US-97
Ashland: I-5
Notice a trend here? Yeah, it's pretty clear which highway Oregon's population is centered around. And interestingly enough, none of these involved I-84 (though not surprising).
Quote from: 1 on December 22, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Did you forget Boston - Lowell by US 3? Or did you consider Lowell a suburb?
Boston-Lowell can also be accessed by I-93/I-495. Although it's a longer distance (but could be shorter time based on time of day), that qualifies as an "all-Interstate" routing - at least until you get to the Lowell Connector.