https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10690.0
The obvious answer is at http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/CountySeats.aspx but it's not clear that's correct.
I used to live in Jefferson Parish, LA - certain East Bank business had to be conducted at the parish offices in Jefferson - you couldn't go to Gretna even if it was easier to get the ferry.
Also it appears Ascension Parish is in a similar situation with Donaldsonville (West Bank) and Gonzales (East Bank).
I haven't been back since before Katrina but I see a lot of Plaquemines business is conducted at Belle Chasse rather than Pointe a la Hache.
Virginia has a number of oddball cases too...Augusta County has Verona for county business....maybe it uses Staunton's courthouses though. So far as I can figure Henrico hasn't used Richmond's courthouses in years....county seat should be Henrico.
Parishes may be slightly different. I'm not sure.
Quote from: woodpusher on January 01, 2014, 06:06:51 PM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10690.0
The obvious answer is at http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/CountySeats.aspx but it's not clear that's correct.
[snip]
Virginia has a number of oddball cases too...Augusta County has Verona for county business....maybe it uses Staunton's courthouses though. So far as I can figure Henrico hasn't used Richmond's courthouses in years....county seat should be Henrico.
The NACO site seems to be using postal addresses for its county seat names. For example, Fairfax County and Fairfax City are for now separate jurisdictions (latter is an independent city, though there's some talk about folding it into the county). Fairfax County's central government offices are located in the Fair Oaks part of the county (postally Fairfax), outside and west of the Fairfax City limits. I suspect something like that applies to Henrico County, and James City County (county seat is postally Williamsburg, but that city is independent of the county).
The one instance I know of where the county seat is officially in another county (equivalent) is Lake and Peninsula Borough in Alaska, whose county seat is King Salmon in adjacent Bristol Bay Borough (whose own county seat is Naknek). There are no road connections between any Lake and Peninsula communities, and the air connections all go through King Salmon, making that the logical central location for the Lake and Peninsula borough government.
Usually: the incorporated place in which county offices are located. If there is no such place, or it's a huge city-county (e.g. Virginia Beach), things get squirrely.
Quote from: NE2 on January 01, 2014, 09:05:41 PM
Usually: the incorporated place in which county offices are located. If there is no such place, or it's a huge city-county (e.g. Virginia Beach), things get squirrely.
Sometimes the place is unincorporated. Eagle River, Michigan, county seat for Keweenaw County is a prime example.
A number of counties have two official county seats. This seems most common in the South.
To my knowledge, only one Kentucky county has no incorporated cities, that being McCreary County.
Kentucky counties officially have only one county seat, but some larger counties have satellite offices spread throughout the county. Pike is a prime example.
And it surprises a lot of people to learn that Covington and Newport are not county seats. They are located in Kenton and Campbell counties respectively and the county seats are Independence and Alexandria.
Quote from: Brandon on January 01, 2014, 09:13:14 PM
Sometimes the place is unincorporated. Eagle River, Michigan, county seat for Keweenaw County is a prime example.
Yes, which can be squirrely if that unincorporated place has no defined boundaries and the county offices are somewhere out of the obvious center.
Or in New England. Which is the county seat, the large incorporated town of the smaller unincorporated village within the town?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haverhill,_New_Hampshire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Haverhill,_New_Hampshire
Dalhart, Texas straddles Dallam and Hartley Counties (hence its name), but is the county seat only of Dallam County. The Hartley County seat is in Channing, about 30 miles south.
in new jersey the county seat is the location of the county government, the board of chosen freeholders, normally it is a large or central town. my county seat is Mount Holly, but it used to be Burlington (same name as the county) but was moved to be more central in in pre revolutionary war colony era
In New Jersey, Ocean County uses Toms River as its seat and that for years was an unincorporated section of Dover Township. Now Dover Township is renamed to Toms River Township, so really you cannot say the name Toms River is unincorporated any longer, but in essence still is.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 01, 2014, 11:48:52 PM
In New Jersey, Ocean County uses Toms River as its seat and that for years was an unincorporated section of Dover Township. Now Dover Township is renamed to Toms River Township, so really you cannot say the name Toms River is unincorporated any longer, but in essence still is.
There is no such thing as "unincorporated" in New Jersey.
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 10:34:14 PM
There is no such thing as "unincorporated" in New Jersey.
Buttzville is unincorporated.
And a bunch more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unincorporated_communities_in_New_Jersey
There's no land that is not part of an incorporated place, but some places that overlap these are unincorporated. Most obviously, any city neighborhood is unincorporated. But there are unincorporated rural communities too.
Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2014, 10:44:09 PM
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 10:34:14 PM
There is no such thing as "unincorporated" in New Jersey.
Buttzville is unincorporated.
And a bunch more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unincorporated_communities_in_New_Jersey
There's no land that is not part of an incorporated place, but some places that overlap these are unincorporated. Most obviously, any city neighborhood is unincorporated. But there are unincorporated rural communities too.
There are place names. There are localities that have not specifically incorporated as separate places. But they are not unincorporated. Unincorporated has no definition in this state.
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
There are place names. There are localities that have not specifically incorporated as separate places. But they are not unincorporated. Unincorporated has no definition in this state.
Unincorporated = not incorporated. Buttzville has not incorporated, and is a defined place. Therefore it is an unincorporated place.
Examples of this use:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/news/news/2013/approved/20131122.html
Quote"This project is an excellent infusion of quality affordable housing in Lyons, a wealthy unincorporated suburb in Bernards Township," said HMFA Executive Director Anthony L. Marchetta.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/lgbr/munpdf/buenavista.pdf
QuoteThe Township of Buena Vista is located approximately 28 miles west of Atlantic City. Routes 40 and 54 intersect the community, providing high-speed access to the township. This rural township of 42 square miles contains numerous unincorporated communities and considerable vacant land.
http://www.state.nj.us/bpu/pdf/boardmin/9-18-13%20MINUTES.pdf
QuotePaul Goldman Associates, in Fords, NJ which is an unincorporated community within Woodbridge also submitted a Clean Energy Program commercial and industrial (C&I) application that was approved in August for a rebate amount over $500,000.
Quote from: NE2 on January 02, 2014, 10:59:35 PM
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
There are place names. There are localities that have not specifically incorporated as separate places. But they are not unincorporated. Unincorporated has no definition in this state.
Unincorporated = not incorporated. Buttzville has not incorporated, and is a defined place. Therefore it is an unincorporated place.
Examples of this use:
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/news/news/2013/approved/20131122.html
Quote"This project is an excellent infusion of quality affordable housing in Lyons, a wealthy unincorporated suburb in Bernards Township," said HMFA Executive Director Anthony L. Marchetta.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/lgbr/munpdf/buenavista.pdf
QuoteThe Township of Buena Vista is located approximately 28 miles west of Atlantic City. Routes 40 and 54 intersect the community, providing high-speed access to the township. This rural township of 42 square miles contains numerous unincorporated communities and considerable vacant land.
http://www.state.nj.us/bpu/pdf/boardmin/9-18-13%20MINUTES.pdf
QuotePaul Goldman Associates, in Fords, NJ which is an unincorporated community within Woodbridge also submitted a Clean Energy Program commercial and industrial (C&I) application that was approved in August for a rebate amount over $500,000.
Based on the above, it appears that while a township is a form of incorporation, it does not incorporate the localities within. I think semantics are getting in the way at this point. It does solidify my concept of what a township is.
Clark and Winfield are two townships that do not have communities within them. Therefore it has nothing to do with size as Winfield is smaller than many boroughs. Clark is small too, but still average in size of most NJ municipalities.
Quote from: Brandon on January 01, 2014, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 01, 2014, 09:05:41 PM
Usually: the incorporated place in which county offices are located. If there is no such place, or it's a huge city-county (e.g. Virginia Beach), things get squirrely.
Sometimes the place is unincorporated. Eagle River, Michigan, county seat for Keweenaw County is a prime example.
In Wisconsin, two counties have no incorporated cities or villages (Florence and Menominee), their seats are unincorporated Florence and Keshena, respectively. IMHO, both places have all of the statutory attributes needed to incorporate as villages, but they have never taken the steps to do so.
There is, in my mind, a special situation in Burnett County, WI regarding its county seat, as in their recent past their county buildings were moved from incorporated Siren to a nearby unincorporated township location.
Mike
Quote from: Brandon on January 01, 2014, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 01, 2014, 09:05:41 PM
Usually: the incorporated place in which county offices are located. If there is no such place, or it's a huge city-county (e.g. Virginia Beach), things get squirrely.
Sometimes the place is unincorporated. Eagle River, Michigan, county seat for Keweenaw County is a prime example.
An even better example are the tiny uninc county seats in the Dakotas. Gann Valley is only 14 people.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 01, 2014, 10:20:09 PM
And it surprises a lot of people to learn that Covington and Newport are not county seats.
Actually they are. There was a court ruling in 2010 that established this, based on an earlier law.
Well, NACO's definition is basically correct. Where it gets complicated is when you differences between de facto and de jure county seats, and the jure isn't always consistent or clear.
Nassau County, NY has a great example of this: its seat is nominally at Mineola, which was an unincorporated settlement at the time it was selected by voters as the county seat. It subsequently incorporated as a village, but the boundaries did not include the county courthouse or offices. Later, the adjacent village of Garden City was incorporated and its boundaries did include the county buildings (a street within Garden City is even called County Seat Drive)–but of course, Garden City was never named the county seat in any official way (to my knowledge). Making things more complicated still, the post office drew its own boundaries around Mineola that do include the county offices, and of course most people are far more familiar with postal boundaries than with political ones.
So, since the state of NY doesn't define county seats (again, to my knowledge), that leaves it to the counties to do so, and it seems Mineola is the only seat to have been officially designated by the county: the de jure county seat. But the actual offices are located in Garden City, a distinct and discrete political entity, so that's the de facto seat.
New Jersey has A LOT of "unincorporated towns", but they are simply sections within the townships/boroughs/cities in which they reside. The township I grew up in has 4 sections to it: All 4 had their own fire station; 2 of the 4 had their own post office. To make it more confusing, 1 of those 4 post offices also served a section of the township next door that had the same name, but in a different township (bonus points if you can figure out the town I'm talking about/times up it's Sewell). Even though some of the fire stations have merged, the smaller towns within the township still retain much of their own identity.
Some other places though, the identity has been lost thru time. Jefferson is a part of Harrison Township, South Jersey, that only had a few houses and a business. It even had it's own NJDOT sign off of State Route 45. But good luck trying to find it anymore.
And while on the topic of Harrison Township, most people in Harrison Township don't even call it that - nearly the entire township goes by the name Mullica Hill, including the police station & post office, both of which serves the entire township.
There are similiar examples all over the state of smaller towns within the townships they reside in. Most of them have a volunteer fire company, post office, or something that gave them an identity. But while they may not have their own form of government, they are indeed part of an incorporated area of the state.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 09, 2014, 12:17:40 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 01, 2014, 10:20:09 PM
And it surprises a lot of people to learn that Covington and Newport are not county seats.
Actually they are. There was a court ruling in 2010 that established this, based on an earlier law.
Got a cite for this? They may have auxiliary courthouses (like Belfry and Phelps in Pike County) but they are not listed as the official county seats. Burlington and Alexandria are.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 09, 2014, 12:04:32 PM
Got a cite for this? They may have auxiliary courthouses (like Belfry and Phelps in Pike County) but they are not listed as the official county seats.
An article about the 2010 court ruling:
http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20101124/NEWS010704/11250342
I've lived in Campbell County for 41 years, and one of the first things I learned growing up was that the county has 2 county seats.
Quote from: woodpusher on January 01, 2014, 06:06:51 PM
Virginia has a number of oddball cases too...Augusta County has Verona for county business....maybe it uses Staunton's courthouses though. So far as I can figure Henrico hasn't used Richmond's courthouses in years....county seat should be Henrico.
Virginia has county seats that are
outside of the county, thanks to the Commonwealth's system of independent cities. The county seat is defined not by where the Board of Supervisors meets, but by where the county courthouse is located.
Two examples are Fairfax County (courthouse in the City of Fairfax) and Prince William County (courthouse in the City of Manassas). Note that some judicial functions are shared between the county and the city, such as Commonwealth's Attorney, Sheriff's Office and the "county" jail.
May also hold true for Frederick County (Va.) and the City of Winchester.
Arlington County, Va. has a county seat in Arlington (no municipalities in that small county).
On the other side of the creek, most county seats in Maryland are within incorporated municipalities. Two exceptions are Howard County (county seat is in unincorporated Ellicott City) and Baltimore County (county seat in unincorporated Towson). Baltimore City is not part of any county and has its own "county" court and "county" jail (Baltimore City's "county" jail is officially part of the state corrections system and was where many corrupt corrections officers were recently arrested by the FBI and prosecuted for doing "business" (including sex) with members of a prison gang).
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Based on the above, it appears that while a township is a form of incorporation, it does not incorporate the localities within. I think semantics are getting in the way at this point. It does solidify my concept of what a township is.
I have always found townships to be curious entities, since they do not exist in Maryland and Virginia.
A friend explained to me that every square centimeter of Pennsylvania is within a municipality of some sort, either a township, borough, city or town (and thus (as I understand it)
everything is incorporated).
As an aside, the City of Philadelphia is the only municipality in Penn's Woods that covers exactly the same land area as a county.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 09, 2014, 06:10:17 PM
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Based on the above, it appears that while a township is a form of incorporation, it does not incorporate the localities within. I think semantics are getting in the way at this point. It does solidify my concept of what a township is.
I have always found townships to be curious entities, since they do not exist in Maryland and Virginia.
A friend explained to me that every square centimeter of Pennsylvania is within a municipality of some sort, either a township, borough, city or town (and thus (as I understand it) everything is incorporated).
As an aside, the City of Philadelphia is the only municipality in Penn's Woods that covers exactly the same land area as a county.
The same holds for Michigan. The seat of Leelanau County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leelanau_County,_Michigan) was moved to a rural section of Suttons Bay Township from the unincorporated community of Leland. The move centralized the county offices between Leland and the village of Suttons Bay.
Quote from: woodpusher on January 01, 2014, 06:06:51 PM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10690.0
The obvious answer is at http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/CountySeats.aspx but it's not clear that's correct.
I used to live in Jefferson Parish, LA - certain East Bank business had to be conducted at the parish offices in Jefferson - you couldn't go to Gretna even if it was easier to get the ferry.
Also it appears Ascension Parish is in a similar situation with Donaldsonville (West Bank) and Gonzales (East Bank).
I haven't been back since before Katrina but I see a lot of Plaquemines business is conducted at Belle Chasse rather than Pointe a la Hache.
Virginia has a number of oddball cases too...Augusta County has Verona for county business....maybe it uses Staunton's courthouses though. So far as I can figure Henrico hasn't used Richmond's courthouses in years....county seat should be Henrico.
Technically speaking, the definition of parish/county seat can be either is where the county or parish legislative body has its meeting chambers, or where the district courthouse sits. Parish/county governmental offices can be anywhere within the jurisdiction. In Jefferson and Ascension, the parish councils actually have meeting chambers in places on both sides of the river, but the courts (the state courts, not parish courts) are still located in the official parish seat. In Plaquemines, the official seat has been de facto abandoned due to a combination of a courthouse fire (2002), natural disaster (2005), and population shifts to the west side of the river.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 09, 2014, 06:10:17 PM
Quote from: Steve on January 02, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Based on the above, it appears that while a township is a form of incorporation, it does not incorporate the localities within. I think semantics are getting in the way at this point. It does solidify my concept of what a township is.
I have always found townships to be curious entities, since they do not exist in Maryland and Virginia.
Townships, as they are in the Midwest, are not incorporated places. In some states such as Wisconsin and Michigan, they can become somewhat incorporated (Wisconsin Towns and Michigan Charter Townships). Usually, they are at the mercy of both counties (which oversee them) and municipalities.
For example, in Illinois, a municipality (city or village) can annex parts of townships without any consent from either the township or the county (some cases require consent from the state - state trails, state property). They only need the consent of the property owner in most cases. In some cases, they can forcibly annex an unincorporated area. They can also annex through a forest preserve without annexing the forest preserve, as well as strip parcels such as utility ROWs and railroad ROWs.
This link: http://law.justia.com/codes/illinois/2005/chapter14/13164.html has the statutes for annexation, but pay very close attention to the population level limits for the county or municipality in question.
In Arkansas, counties are subdivided into townships, but they are little more than voting precincts or boundaries of rural fire department districts. They also allow for the election of constables, but few do run.
In Texas, county seats are set by election. Under the constitution, county seats near the center of the county are favored. A seat within 5 miles of the center of the county can be removed only by a two-thirds vote, while a county seat farther than 5 miles from the center can be replaced by a county seat within 5 miles of the center by a majority vote. Moving a county seat farther than 5 miles from the center to another place more than 5 miles from the center is not addressed.
Incorporation is not a factor. Kenedy, Loving, and Terrell Counties, as well as others, have no incorporated cities, but have county seats. Some counties have an incorporated city but the county seat is unincorporated; these include Palo Pinto, Jeff Davis, and Hudspeth. I suspect that Valentine and Dell City incorporated because of feeling neglected by the county government centered far away (as an [un]interesting fact, I have the 1984 State Department of Highways and Public Transportation atlas, and the Jeff Davis County map shows Valentine as a city, but with the label "inactive;" I don't know what that means). Bowie County has an interesting county seat. The seat was once Texarkana, but it was moved to an unincorporated place near the center of the county, by a majority vote. That's how we got Old Boston. When the county seat was moved, the nearby town of Boston mostly moved there, taking the name, and those left behind called the town Old Boston. The incorporated city of New Boston annexed the town of Boston, but since county seats can be moved only by elections, the seat is still Boston, a town which no longer exists, except as a legal technicality. The Bowie County courthouse is now located near I-30, in New Boston about 2 miles away from the neighborhood that was once Boston.
Quote from: Road Hog on January 11, 2014, 03:19:07 AM
In Arkansas, counties are subdivided into townships, but they are little more than voting precincts or boundaries of rural fire department districts. They also allow for the election of constables, but few do run.
Arkansas is also one of those states where there can be two county seats.
For those who don't consider a county visited for county-counting purposes unless they visit the county seat, does either city count in a county with more than one county seat? Or do you have to visit both towns?