I have been a member of this forum for a few years now, I enjoy it. Most of all I learned a lot here about roads and found out places of resources I can go to learn about things related to roads. Plus I have met many interesting people here and made a few friends along the way as well. I probably would make more if I was able to travel more to the various road meets that are advertised, but conditions permit me from traveling as much as I like to. However, those are the breaks as they say, but life goes on.
Nonetheless, it has been an interesting experience to be able to share your knowledge of roads and pick up some at the same time. Also to see many photographs of many places I have not yet clinched. It is always interesting to see other states signing practices as well as roads you have never charted yourself. In all glory its a great place to be!
Sadly to say, we have a few people on here who get out of line and have short fuses. Usually it does not bother me as much now as it did when I first joined as I had a few people on here that became obsessed with my posts because I did not take the time to read the guidelines when I first joined. As a newbe I saw many topics started long before I joined and thought to myself that they were indeed interesting and just wanted to participate in the discussion. However, did I know that people become weary when a topic is continued or worse yet brought up for discussion again months later. I can now see why as many newcomers to this here forum occasionally start threads that were already discussed years ago and seeing it again makes you think " that is old, tell us something new," but now I have to remember what I have done when I was a novice and grin it as well as bear it.
Well, to be getting to what I would like now is at one point in time, just weeks after joining, I thought that I would bring up a new toll plaza being constructed in a very rural area that was in such an area where a previous plaza was removed to make it easier on motorists by paying a higher toll at one plaza over two smaller toll plazas. Now, apparently the reverse situation is happening and the road agency who maintains our toll roads (or at least this one road) is going back to the old way once again. I stated how corrupt a move it was as my personal belief (as is many who live in Central Florida believe also) that the agency is not on the level. I even quoted one radio commentator saying that tolls in Orlando should be abolished which was a bad move. I mean really a move that hit a nerve on this forum. The announcer was Bud Heddinger, who is a local conservative here in Orlando, who does what Rush and Sean do on the national level, but here regionally, so it got one user here all fired up and began attacking me over my ideals of the post.
First of all, it got me mad as the toll saga in Orlando is not a public political issue! In fact both Liberals and Conservatives both hate the toll system in our area. For instance back in the 1990's when the FL 408 was simply called the East-West Expressway many Orlando residents, Democrat or Republican, both nicknamed the road as the "East- West Ripoff" and many long time citizens remember how it was before the SR 528 Airport Toll Plaza was erected as SR 528 was toll free in that location. It was nothing of the sort in the war between talk radio and the rest of the world, yet this one user acted as it was. He simply classified me as a Republican in the stereotypical sense, and was trying to make it look that it is part of the political platform of the Democratic Party in Orlando to keep the tolls alive and from there on in he began his bully quest on me.
Now I do not expect all of my posts to be liked, as there are many other users here who once in a while post something boring, old, or off the wall. Bottom line is we are all different and we have different tastes and different likes, so we are going to post things that others may not be interested in. In fact there was a post about stolen road signs that was made a few days ago. I thought the thread was a waste, but I respected the poster as I said nothing even though I felt as an individual he did far too much research to make just one simple little post that turned out many characters in length. I moved on as it is "to each his own" and he has the right to delegate his time the way he wants, so I let him. However, I made one post today, and the one particular user who holds the grudge on me because I hate the idea of the Dallas Boulevard toll plaza started in to share his opinion that he thinks my post is boring of the sort.
Regardless, he too has the right to his opinion as well as I do to mine, but he really does not need to go out of his way to type in a few words. In essence he can move on as well, plus this is not the first time since the Great Toll Road Debate he has made comments toward me. He once lashed out because I made a comment that many non road geeks have made is the fact Florida Legislature seems to allocate more funds for highways to the Tampa Bay Region than the Central Florida region. He responded in rage: "That is because US 19 has no relief route like SR 50 does stupid!" where in my original concern I did not compare US 19 to SR 50 specifically. Although he made a good point and it did answer my concerns as I seemed to overlook the obvious that all grade separations made in the Bay Area were along US 19, a road that has no freeway bypass as I was looking at the big picture of the two metro areas when I made my assessment. However, the way he said it was uncalled for especially many folks out there think that way too, not realizing the grade separations of St. Pete are directed at US 19 as supposed to just intersections in general.
Now, back to the subject at hand, how much of this do we have to take? I have held my cool pretty good and being Christian it is easy to ignore as it is one of our values we hold dearly, but he seems to be pushing it so much. I mean one day he will be fine, but another day he will not be. Then he can go weeks without saying anything. In fact there were times I had a friendly discussion with this individual in the between, but out of nowhere he just erupts at times with either a "holy crap" or a "yawn" and even a "whoopie" if he is not lashing out at another user for complaining about the left handed cloverleaf near New Castle, DE because the I-295 split from I-95 is nearby. Then I have even seen him bash new members who are making their first posts with his sarcasm or off beat jokes when they post something that he thinks is not good.
Do we need people on this forum who insult others, or over make snide remarks? Just where is the line that we have to take from bullies like this who troll the internet just to start trouble, which I think he does on purpose for lack of home life? I too am not the only one who thinks of this one individual as a bully too, as many others have fought with him over the course of time as well. Should we not have something done to trolls like this who like to prove how smart they really are for lack of insecurity in their own personal lives or in this case the lack of one?
Often, these types of really short and meaningless posts happen because it is too long for the person to read, in his opinion.
Also, if a new person has a question, it should be answered, not made fun of. I agree.
I for one enjoy a little sarcasm and snideness in my reading. Keeps things interesting. The trick is to not get offended- why do you care so much about what some guy on the internet says?
I know of this individual of which you speak, and the jerk really does lack a lot of people skills. I favor just insulting him back with something he cannot reply to.
What can I say, the individual in question is simply an asshole. He needs a good dose of Preparation H around his mouth and keyboard. Treat him as an asshole and keep a supply of wipes handy when he spews his shit like an asshole.
Don't let him get to you. If he does, then he wins.
That's all I have to say on this.
Quote from: SD Mapman on January 03, 2014, 12:49:16 PM
Don't let him get to you. If he does, then he wins.
That's all I have to say on this.
I haven't cared what people have said to/about me in the past 16 years. Real life, or on the Internet. If some people want to be assholes, then let them be assholes. Generally, one does it for the sheer enjoyment of seeing the victim in a rage or to see them emotionally hurt. Don't give them that satisfaction, and they (should) stop. At all times I try to avoid calling anyone out, no matter what I think of the post they made. Granted, people are different; This doesn't give them a valid reason to go and pick on them however.
If you post stupid things, expect to be called out on your shit. That happens in Fictional (despite people saying "but it's fictional! you can't argue about it!), and it happens in the rest of the forum as well. If you dredge up a bunch of old threads for no good reason, you get called on it. 99% of the users on this forum don't stick out like a sore thumb. The few who do are either under the watchful eyes of the admin staff, or we're already on it. ;)
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*
*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*
*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
Consider the source.
So to sum it up, the moderators don't care that your feelings might get hurt, because they find it funny. But god help you if you post twice in succession on the same thread.
If you ask what we think about something, expect us to not care.
How about we use this thread to report any such nitpicking?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2995.msg269077#msg269077
There is a report feature.
Quote from: 1 on January 04, 2014, 11:06:42 AM
There is a report feature.
Not for me. I supposedly abused it.
I can't tell you how many times bullies have gotten me on several different websites. Being young and autistic isn't easy, even to the point where I've been bullied online and in real life. I've even left this forum because I've been somewhat picked on. These days, I've grown to want to fight it rather than running away from it all.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on January 04, 2014, 12:05:17 AM
So to sum it up, the moderators don't care that your feelings might get hurt, because they find it funny. But god help you if you post twice in succession on the same thread.
Moderating format is not the same as moderating content.
So basically, don't be an idiot either with your content and your formatting and you won't get picked on or moderated, right?
Also, back to the OP, there's one little line in there that really, really bothers me:
Quoteeven though I felt as an individual he did far too much research to make just one simple little post that turned out many characters in length.
We shouldn't be discouraging people from doing "too much research"- that's what brings up the quality of conversation, even if it's on a subject you have no interest in. Doing far too much research shows that the poster thought about what they were posting before posting it, which is far more contributory to a forum discussion than an offbeat rant. I'm not saying we all need to spend hours researching before we post because that would be ridiculous, but man, when that does happen it should be appreciated and we should be encouraging that sort of behavior.
If you feel that people doing what you interpret as far too much research before posting on any topic is a negative thing, wow. It really depresses me to think that somebody taking time to gather facts on anything- no matter how trivial, and then presenting those facts would be something that others would look at in a negative light. If that's really how you feel, you may want to ask yourself who the bully actually is- NE2 might be outward about his comments, but you're thinking far more damaging thoughts than he's saying, and that's scary. One of you actively calls out posts that may not be well thought out, while the other sees a well thought out post on something uninteresting, scoffs, and says to himself "he did way too much research." Both reactions are bad, but one at least strives for a higher quality of posts, even if it's done in sometimes brash way.
Quote from: Steve on January 04, 2014, 01:22:31 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on January 04, 2014, 12:05:17 AM
So to sum it up, the moderators don't care that your feelings might get hurt, because they find it funny. But god help you if you post twice in succession on the same thread.
Moderating format is not the same as moderating content.
Keep in mind that "The Staff" is not all one entity. Many of us have areas that they tend to focus on. (I am usually the one editing posts or fixing malformed quote codes, whereas rickmastfan keeps the board software running and checks new user accounts to make sure they're not spammers, etc.) We also have different opinions on how the board should be managed, and sometimes we have to have a lengthy debate to make sure everyone's on the same page before we do something.
That being said, it is helpful to know where the board membership stands on certain things. If we have twenty users complaining about something, you can be sure we'll notice, and it will make us more likely to take action. Remember, our PM boxes are always open, and we will share your concerns with the rest of the staff so as to make sure everyone's aware of what's going on.
Each person's words are motivated and formulated in different ways. What they write or say is usually different from what you read or hear. That isn't to say that words can't show ill will, but I wouldn't be eager to conclude that any particular words do.
If instead of concluding that words are meant to be hurtful you look at the thought patterns driving those words, you may figure out how those words are meant to be interpreted. It's a useful skill to have, especially online, where you can't hear vocal tones and inflections.
If the words are meant to be hurtful, then dealing with them is a part of life. It may be an unfortunate part, but I don't think so. I believe that dealing with adversity teaches much about finding context and understanding the meaning of things. Most importantly, it teaches lessons on finding peace; I believe the truest form of peace is that experienced in the midst of turmoil. [Sorry to get all philosophical, but I hope it's helpful.]
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2014, 07:07:25 AM
Keep in mind that "The Staff" is not all one entity. Many of us have areas that they tend to focus on. (I am usually the one editing posts or fixing malformed quote codes, whereas rickmastfan keeps the board software running and checks new user accounts to make sure they're not spammers, etc.) We also have different opinions on how the board should be managed, and sometimes we have to have a lengthy debate to make sure everyone's on the same page before we do something.
I like the fact that you always put your initial after your edits.
I always thought −S. stood for Steve. :confused: I guess I never really looked.
Quote from: sammi on January 06, 2014, 04:40:09 PM
I always thought −S. stood for Steve. :confused: I guess I never really looked.
Mine are ~S
And when I tweak a post, I sign it this way and add a reason:
-rmf67
Quote from: 707 on January 04, 2014, 01:20:59 PM
I can't tell you how many times bullies have gotten me on several different websites. Being young and autistic isn't easy, even to the point where I've been bullied online and in real life. I've even left this forum because I've been somewhat picked on. These days, I've grown to want to fight it rather than running away from it all.
I'd second that comment. lets face it, as a forum of "geeks" I think its understandable that many people would be sensitive to any sort of "bullying". obviously many of us have been bullied at one point in our life and its ridiculous for a fellow geek to bully on this site. people can disagree without being snide or sarcastic. if the tone of the thread is obviously to be funny or there is a running joke, then that's fine. but to insult an honest opinion or statement is out of line.
I'm necroposting, time for people to get upset at me. :clap:
Quote from: authenticroadgeek on March 19, 2016, 11:24:34 PM
I'm necroposting, time for people to get upset at me. :clap:
Ѡ🎩
Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*
*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:
Since this thread has already been exhumed, I might as well state my opinion.
I've only ever been active in three online forums, and in only two of them has my membership been active enough to have a real feel for how moderation is handled. There's this one, and one other that I am currently active in.
In the other forum, there are high standards for gentlemanly conduct, and posts are deleted if they are more than the slightest bit vulgar in content. Newbies are encouraged, and coming across as superior or the final authority is actively discouraged. Many, many members have made specific mention that this gentlemanly atmosphere is a breath of fresh air in a world of forums filled with negativity, snarkiness, and bickering. I too have felt it, and have spent considerable time away from aaroads in favor of a forum with less hostility.
Now, I have gotten into arguments on here in the past, but they were almost always non-roadgeek-related topics that reasonably should not have been allowed to develop, and I hold myself to blame for that at least as much as the moderators; after all, I am a responsible adult. More to the point, though, the arguments I've found myself in have all for the most part been intelligent and reasonable, with other members legitimately expressing their opinions and keeping their personal attacks against me to a clear minimum. I have not often been subjected to quick verbal slaps like "yawn", vulgarity, and the like.
If a member takes offense at a clearly presented, thought-out reply from someone of a contrary opinion, then maybe that member is not cut out to be part of an online forum. But I should also say that cutting, personal attacks using coarse language are both intended to and should be expected to upset the other party. Allowing that sort of behavior without censure is tacitly promoting an atmosphere of unwelcome and discord. New members will feel like leaving, veteran members will feel like disappearing, and the amicable exchange of experience and ideas that aaroads should be devolves into a clique.
Should there be more active censure my the moderators when it comes to incisive language and content? That is something the leadership has to decide on their own, and on this site the decision is generally to allow as slack of a leash as reasonable. But they also need to understand that a hostile environment both hinders people from becoming active contributors and discourages people from remaining so.
Quote from: kphoger on April 10, 2016, 02:38:30 PM
I've only ever been active in three online forums, and in only two of them has my membership been active enough to have a real feel for how moderation is handled. There's this one, and one other that I am currently active in.
In the other forum, there are high standards for gentlemanly conduct, and posts are deleted if they are more than the slightest bit vulgar in content. Newbies are encouraged, and coming across as superior or the final authority is actively discouraged. Many, many members have made specific mention that this gentlemanly atmosphere is a breath of fresh air in a world of forums filled with negativity, snarkiness, and bickering. I too have felt it, and have spent considerable time away from aaroads in favor of a forum with less hostility.
Just making sure: the other forum is not the one that split off from this one, right?
The other forum is not road-related at all, and I didn't know until right now that there was a forum that split off.
Quote from: 1 on April 10, 2016, 02:46:58 PM
Just making sure: the other forum is not the one that split off from this one, right?
No, that forum is even less-moderated than this one. It's also very inactive. I guess they never got the traction they wanted.
As for moderation where language is concerned, I'm not offended by cursing, although I don't think it really adds anything of value to a discussion. I think some people just like to drop f-bombs for shock value. I've used coarse language in the past, although it's something I'm trying to get away from as I rediscover my faith, but when I did, it was always in private conversation and not somewhere that's I'd be ashamed if my parents or grandparents or former schoolteachers saw what I had written.
I make no bones about the fact that I prefer an unmoderated forum, but let's face it, MTR is dead. Last time I went over there, a couple of weeks ago, some idiot spammer had taken over and there were only a couple of legitimate conversations going on, plus a couple that had been necro-ed from years ago. But if there is one aspect of moderation I wish would be more active, it's for foul language. Like I said, it doesn't offend me, but I don't think it add anything of value to the conversation.
Quote from: Katavia on April 10, 2016, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*
*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:
Usenet used to have what was called a "killfile", basically blocking the offending user's posts from being seen (and consequently annoying) the person using the killfile. Typically you'd see an argument and then one of them would say *PLONK!* as the announcement that the offender had gone into the killfile.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
No, that forum is even less-moderated than this one. It's also very inactive. I guess they never got the traction they wanted.
That's because someone hacked it and knocked it offline, and a lot of people stopped using it then. But it's still around.
Quote from: Brandon on April 12, 2016, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: Katavia on April 10, 2016, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*
*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:
Usenet used to have what was called a "killfile", basically blocking the offending user's posts from being seen (and consequently annoying) the person using the killfile. Typically you'd see an argument and then one of them would say *PLONK!* as the announcement that the offender had gone into the killfile.
Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others. One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine. I finally got a newsreader that could block based on content and axed his crap from my posts based on his signature.
Don't participate in forums where people treat people badly. Don't participate with someone with enough misery in their head to start fights online (or anywhere else). Misery has tremendous endurance. Don't sweat any of this because you'll be a lot happier letting it go.
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 13, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others. One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine.
Sounds like the guy who kept following me around on Usenet and attacking me in every newsgroup.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 13, 2016, 06:20:35 PM
Don't participate in forums where people treat people badly. Don't participate with someone with enough misery in their head to start fights online (or anywhere else). Misery has tremendous endurance. Don't sweat any of this because you'll be a lot happier letting it go.
Just want to do a QFT and restate this so that everyone reads it. This is so true; everyone should take note of this! Excellently said.
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 13, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others. One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine. I finally got a newsreader that could block based on content and axed his crap from my posts based on his signature.
Randy Hersh did that a lot. He would change his email address or handle every so often to avoid killfiles. Back before I lost access to my Usenet provider but after he died, I went and cleaned out my killfile. I'll bet I had at least 12-15 different identities of his plonked.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
As for moderation where language is concerned, I'm not offended by cursing, although I don't think it really adds anything of value to a discussion. I think some people just like to drop f-bombs for shock value. I've used coarse language in the past, although it's something I'm trying to get away from as I rediscover my faith, but when I did, it was always in private conversation and not somewhere that's I'd be ashamed if my parents or grandparents or former schoolteachers saw what I had written.
{...}But if there is one aspect of moderation I wish would be more active, it's for foul language. Like I said, it doesn't offend me, but I don't think it add anything of value to the conversation.
The internet has played no small part in this, but there is definitely an overall trend in American society in general towards profanity being considered not a big deal. Increasingly if you try to put a lid on the use of profanity you get seen as an old-fashioned puritanical killjoy.
That's not to say there isn't something to be said for limiting its use in some contexts. It is very difficult to be eloquent when using profanity, and indeed there is an art to crafting nasty insults or emphasizing points without using any bad words - which will be lost on anyone who tries to accomplish the same by just throwing a bunch of swear words in and calling it good.
That said, use of profanity can make one appear more genuine and honest. We do after all live in a society where carefully crafted speech is how marketers and politicians tell lies.
I've gotten enough pushback from members of the community when attempting to moderate that I figure the forum we have now is the forum people want.
After dzlabe it makes me take a look at things more clearer. Here is a guy who is despised by many, but yet keeps on coming back. Yet, I was complaining at the beginning when inerstateng was bullying me, and he was because everything I said that he disliked was said by NE2, and that I-366 85 mph kid, but I never saw the guy get upset about them nor complain to the moderators about them like he did me. I should have just took it as a disagreement on certain subject and moved on, however when I first came on here and one specific someone started heavy insults of my character when I thought the then Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority placed another mainline plaza in a rural area after several years earlier removing another plaza just to consolidate and have less stopping now was really bad.
Two people chimed in and said that I was crazy and stupid for not seeing the fact that someday Avalon Park and the International Corporate Park Blvd. interchange will someday sprawl and they were taking normal measures to plan for that day. Not to mention the fact the tolls did not go up, just spread out and the reverse of consolidation was made as well as a mention as well that I was being a Republican and its the Right side of politics in Orlando that is trying to get rid of toll roads as well. However, at the time I worked at a commercial laundry in Orlando with a very Democratic Union (they gave union dues to Obama's campaign) and mostly borderline poverty line African Americans working there. They all believed the opposite of what NE2 believes that its the White Republicans who want the poor blacks to pay the tolls on the 408 or use the clogged local roadways.
It made my head spin out of control hearing on here that people want the tolls and yet all my time here in Orlando people I worked with use to call FL 408 "The East-West Rip Off" because no one liked paying the tolls especially when the OOECA threatened us all by planning to raise the tolls by a quarter because no one was using the extensions of FL 408 at that specific time. Most people I worked with were ignorant too and thought that volume selling is the key, therefore keep the tolls at 50 cents and you will get more riders on it, or even lower it to 25 cents a plaza and you will therefore have your money made. Yes, folks it was not the usual GOP verses Liberal talk in those conversations either. In fact both Democrat thinkers and Republican thinkers alike hated the Orlando toll rates all along. NE2 was the first to say that its the local issues between the GOP and the Dems and that historically through implication of his posts, that the Orlando Republican Party has always wanted the tolls out and the Democrats wanted them in just to take the burden off the tax payers. Of course that was after I mentioned the fact that radio personality Bud Hedinger mentioned that he thinks toll roads should be abolished and for those of you who do not live in Central Florida, Hedinger is a small Rush Limbaugh and bases his show in the same format at El Rushbo!
Then it was said my posts were dumb because I called the NJ 35 and Laurence Parkway intersection dumb. I only made a few posts, but one person thought he knew me so well to come to a conclusion so fast based on just a couple of posts as I was only on here for a couple of weeks when he made it and very few posts. Then I was told by some other road geek friend I knew before I joined here that he knew some of the users here and e the one specific one I mentioned here. It was that he had a disorder that prevented him from graduating school and forced him to be the ward of his parents and I should just let his bullying slide. Later on I told him that I would not as I felt the guy was using his health to be obnoxious and steal us workers SS so he could sit at home. He defriended my on Facebook and told me to F Off and never talk to him again, and afterwards became a bully himself to me and demand I give him proof for all the things I remembered as a child from NJ Roads and not post based on my memory if I got into discussions here about the past. Not too mention he was not too fond of my FB rants on politics and religion, and he told the owner of this forum that he also did not like me because he disliked my choice of party (which I belong to none anyway, but he thinks I am a GOP member) and that he is very Liberal, so he also holds that against me as well.
Now I have learned some. Since the ignore feature on here was found, I use it and I block some of these over opinionated trolls. I learned that we can disagree and even though many on here feel that we should all agree, Jeff brought up something interesting, that even when we argue with someone we do not like, we still are doing the very purpose of this board and that is discussing.
So keep in mind with dzlabe, you argue back with him when he calls you out, you are engaging in that discussion that you dislike and complain about. If we all stopped trying to make him understand or even ignore him, then he most likely would go away.