Different people have different meanings for "expressway". Here are some types of roads that people might argue either way. This will start at the lowest level of expressway and go to the highest level.
The first level is anything with some interchanges. This shows US 4 near NH 108. However, this is not divided, and there are still at-grade intersections.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.googleapis.com%2Fmaps%2Fapi%2Fstreetview%3Fsize%3D600x300%26amp%3Blocation%3D42.741755%2C-72.097405%26amp%3Bheading%3D331.78%26amp%3Bpitch%3D-0.76%26amp%3Bsensor%3Dfalse&hash=02c9b08a743b200a84dab758deba9d4296a2410a)
The more overpasses there are, and the fewer at-grade intersections there are, the more likely it is to be considered an expressway. This is NH 101 near NH 13. Note that it is still undivided.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.googleapis.com%2Fmaps%2Fapi%2Fstreetview%3Fsize%3D600x300%26amp%3Blocation%3D42.81857%2C-71.653492%26amp%3Bheading%3D131.78%26amp%3Bpitch%3D-0.76%26amp%3Bsensor%3Dfalse&hash=bcda84ac29e699ae4de511877b717034ab989cd7)
At about the same level (but slightly different type), this is divided, but has some at-grade intersections (not shown here). This is MA 16 to the left and the offramp for MA 107 to the right. Ignore the sign (if you can read it). It incorrectly says MA 1A.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.googleapis.com%2Fmaps%2Fapi%2Fstreetview%3Fsize%3D600x300%26amp%3Blocation%3D42.403511%2C-71.013482%26amp%3Bheading%3D301.78%26amp%3Bpitch%3D-0.76%26amp%3Bsensor%3Dfalse&hash=5c2a2f918526eb0cd53058654d3465a7b0e31ecc)
This is considered by most people to be an expressway. There are no at-grade intersections that require turning left, and it is divided. However, there are businesses on the side. This is US 1 near MA 114.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.googleapis.com%2Fmaps%2Fapi%2Fstreetview%3Fsize%3D600x300%26amp%3Blocation%3D42.562718%2C-70.976709%26amp%3Bheading%3D191.78%26amp%3Bpitch%3D-0.76%26amp%3Bsensor%3Dfalse&hash=90e4306b00d3c369a888073444e3361ca1b0961c)
Anything higher than this is probably a freeway. (Some people still call it an expressway.)
If you're not sure what the rest of the road looks like, you can use Google Maps to find the intersection of the two routes given.
Would you consider these expressways or not?
In the US, I know the term expressway is used almost synonomously with freeway and highway. My definition is a (usually) controlled-access roadway designed for high speed travel that may or may not feature a divided roadway and or at-grade intersections.
The only road I know that is called an expressway (at least on signs), is the Brooklyn Queens Expressway. But it's (kinda) built to Interstate standards, so I'm not sure if that should count.
There are significant regional differences in how to define "expressway" -- for example, eastern states use that term for what would be called "freeways" out West. So you're not going to get any universal definitions.
I would imagine speed limits and number of lanes would factor in there somewhere. In this area (NJ/Greater Philadelphia) the general public doesn't use the terms expressway or freeway unless they are part of the name (or nickname, like the 42 freeway) of the road, but as a proxy, the term highway is generally applied to both expressways and freeways. I would call a road a highway if it is 2 lanes in each direction or more, at least some access control, and a speed limit of at least 50. If it's divided, a speed limit of 45 or possibly even 40 could make the cut.
Quote from: Zeffy on January 18, 2014, 07:37:00 PM
The only road I know that is called an expressway (at least on signs), is the Brooklyn Queens Expressway. But it's (kinda) built to Interstate standards, so I'm not sure if that should count.
The New York City area has a number of other "expressways" that are all freeways, the Long Island Expressway, Staten Island Expressway, Bruckner Expressway, Cross Bronx Expressway, Major Deegan Expressway, Van Wyck Expressway. I'm sure there are more, but I don't think they call a road an expressway unless it's in the name over there either.
Goat.
Please, let's not have yet another what do your locals call it thread.
MUTCD says "a divided highway with partial control of access", but there are definitely some undivided ones.
"Partial control of access" legally means that abutting property owners can't build unlimited driveways. This describes many state highways and even local roads, hence is too broad. Here's how NCDOT defines the term (http://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPB%20%20Strategic%20Highway%20Corridors/NCDOT%20Facility%20Types%20-%20Control%20of%20Access%20Definitions.pdf):
QuoteDriveways:
Limited Control of Access - Not Allowed
Partial Control of Access - One Driveway Connection per Parcel; Consolidate and/or Share Driveways and Limit Access to Connecting Streets or Service Roads; Restrict to Right-in/Right-out
But NCDOT also says traffic signals are not allowed, which is not always true.
In many ways there's a continuum of access control from none (residential street) to full (freeway). Expressways begin somewhere in the middle, but the exact place is unclear.
Quote from: NE2 on January 18, 2014, 07:50:46 PM
Goat.
Please, let's not have yet another what do your locals call it thread.
Screw your goat. FHWA may have a definition of terms in the MUTCD, but that does not mean that locals, and even states have the same definitions.
MTR has held that "expressway" applies to a road with access control but not necessarily grade separation. However, I'm seeing now that the definition is not supported by the MUTCD, which calls for "partial" access control. Can an expressway have driveways? (Expresswaysite would say no.) That's why we created the term "Jersey freeway", for a road with driveways but no cross streets.
I remember once making an offhand reference on MTR to "freeways" in NYC and Randy Hersh going off on me like I had African pigmentation, because they're "expressways" there.
When I use the term "expressway" it is synonymous with "freeway", because in the region I come from that's the case. Of course, I've traveled enough, and been a discusser of roads long enough, to know the various other meanings according to highway engineers and laypeople of other regions. But I've just never had occasion to use the term "expressway" as a generic term in any setting where it doesn't mean the same as "freeway", and if anything, I'll favor the term "freeway" even in regions where the more usual word would be "expressway".
So to succinctly answer the topic question, to me a freeway counts as an expressway, as does anything where "Expressway" is a component of its proper name. Things which count as expressways to other people having a credible reason for counting them as such also count to me, just not out loud.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 18, 2014, 09:37:25 PM
I remember once making an offhand reference on MTR to "freeways" in NYC and Randy Hersh going off on me like I had African pigmentation, because they're "expressways" there.
Well, he's right, if freeways are like hurricanes. A hurricane which crosses from the eastern Pacific into the western Pacific becomes a typhoon. If a freeway, having been built in Los Angeles or Houston, were to be moved intact from there into New York City, would it thereby become an expressway? If yes, he's right. If not, he isn't.
We've already had this discussion about what locals call them 366 times. That's not the question that was asked.
Quote from: NE2 on January 18, 2014, 10:10:21 PM
366 times
Did we have the discussion at 85 miles per hour?
I've long thought of it like this:
| No Access from Frontage | Access from Frontage |
Grade Separation | Freeway | "Jersey Freeway" |
No Grade Separation | Expressway | Surface Street |
Quote from: oscar on January 18, 2014, 07:41:35 PM
There are significant regional differences in how to define "expressway" -- for example, eastern states use that term for what would be called "freeways" out West. So you're not going to get any universal definitions.
Then you have West Virginia, where their DOT uses "freeway ends" on road signs located on what most people here would call an "expressway" (at-grade intersections). In some cases this is reasonable enough as a practical matter, I suppose–Corridor H's eastern portion comes to mind as a road that has some at-grade intersections but less traffic than almost any "freeway" I've ever driven, such that for all practical purposes it functions as a "freeway."
But Wait in San Jose an expressway is a Limited Access Road owned by Santa Clara County. But Some Cities in California would refer to Parkway as a Limited access Road such as Fairfield CA Air Base parkway. Its a limited access Road owned by the city of Fairfield. But in San Jose CA-87 is Guadalupe Parkway its a freeway owned by Caltrans or LA's CA-110 Arroyo Seco Parkway and the New York Parkway system they are freeways with state designations but does not meet interstate standards and does not accept trucks.
The way I see it...
A Highway is any state/federal roadway that has a numbered designation, regardless of construction or other official designation (State Road, State Route, State Trunk, etc)
An Expressway is a roadway, typically a highway, that has a physical divider between directions of travel. Speeds will usually be in excess of 50MPH and there will be few if any driveways. It will have a limited number of controlled intersections. There may be some grade separation with some roadways, and perhaps a few exits, but they will be the exception, not the rule. (Example, SR-20 (WA) from Anacortes to Burlington) - There can also be the Michigan Modifier to the Expressway which limits left turns from the roadway to other Expressways or Major Highways, with all other left turns relegated to U-Turns, either at certain intersections or utilizing the Michigan Left.
A Freeway is a roadway, usually a highway, that has a physical divider between directions of travel. No access to the roadway other than interchanges. Grade separation required.
A Tollway is a roadway, usually a highway, that has a physical divider between directions of travel. No access to the roadway other than interchanges. Grade separation required.
Quote from: briantroutman on January 19, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
"Jersey Freeway"
Or "Texas Freeway" or "Michigan Freeway", etc. Best to just call them "Urban Freeways".
Quote from: vdeane on January 18, 2014, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 18, 2014, 10:10:21 PM
366 times
Did we have the discussion at 85 miles per hour?
While working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2014, 05:44:52 PM
While working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
wow. I was at 0/11 before giving up. anyone have any idea what any answer is?
generally, many Sporcle quizzes are quite suspect. I tried a "197 countries of the world", but gave up when I typed in Venezuela and it credited me Peru.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2014, 05:44:52 PM
While working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
wow. I was at 0/11 before giving up. anyone have any idea what any answer is?
If you wait long enough (~15 seconds), it'll give you a "give up" link. Turns out I had two of them, but typing "interstates" doesn't credit you "Interstates of the US", and "super 2" isn't good enough for "2 lane freeways"...
Complete list of answers: Interstates of the US, Autoroutes of Quebec, 400 series highways in Ontario, Autobahn in Germany, Some state routes in the US, 100 series highways in nova scotia, 2 lane freeways, Parkways, Expressways, Motorways, Undivided freeways.
So speaketh ethanman.
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 19, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
"Jersey Freeway"
Or "Texas Freeway" or "Michigan Freeway", etc. Best to just call them "Urban Freeways".
No. A "Jersey freeway" (called such since they're very common in NJ) is a road that is otherwise a freeway but has RIROs for local roads and private driveways. Start here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.869444,-74.063816&spn=0.00329,0.007086&gl=us&t=k&z=18) and go north on NJ 17, or here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.43387,-71.018887&spn=0.006422,0.014173&gl=us&t=k&z=17) and go north on US 1. Note the utter lack of cross traffic.
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/rock_fwy/
Its odd that in New York a City Street is called a Freeway
Rockaway Freeway. But its really a street.
Quote from: bing101 on January 19, 2014, 04:58:17 PM
But Wait in San Jose an expressway is a Limited Access Road owned by Santa Clara County. But Some Cities in California would refer to Parkway as a Limited access Road such as Fairfield CA Air Base parkway. Its a limited access Road owned by the city of Fairfield. But in San Jose CA-87 is Guadalupe Parkway its a freeway owned by Caltrans or LA's CA-110 Arroyo Seco Parkway and the New York Parkway system they are freeways with state designations but does not meet interstate standards and does not accept trucks.
Some parkways are debatable as freeways. For example does it count if half the intersections are at-grade like the Taconic (http://nysroads.com/tsplist.php) and Saw Mill?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2014, 05:44:52 PM
While working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
wow. I was at 0/11 before giving up. anyone have any idea what any answer is?
I typed Parkway and Expressway. Apparently it had to be plural.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2014, 05:44:52 PM
While working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
wow. I was at 0/11 before giving up. anyone have any idea what any answer is?
Wow. Who the hell's going to guess "Some state routes in the US"?
The quiz author in question also created this one that may be near and dear to some folks:
http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/28-freeway-interchanges
You won't get them all because he made it utterly inflexible as to what you must enter. (For example, on a quiz about the Atlantic Coast Conference most people would program it so that you could type UVA, Virginia, or University of Virginia and be marked correct for any of them. He doesn't do that. His way is to make you type it exactly as he entered it except maybe for capitalization.....so, as a hint, "Road" will not work but "Rd" will.)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2014, 06:19:36 PM
generally, many Sporcle quizzes are quite suspect. I tried a "197 countries of the world", but gave up when I typed in Venezuela and it credited me Peru.
I've actually gotten 100% on their "Countries of the World" quiz, but you have to understand some of their nuances in country naming to do that. Sporcle considers Palestine a country, for example. It also won't credit "Bosnia"–they have some agreement that you must type "Bosnia and Herzegovina" to be correct (yet for some reason they accept "St. Vincent" in lieu of "St. Vincent and the Grenadines"). There are a few others like that, although it will let you type "East Timor" or "Ivory Coast" instead of forcing you to say "Timor-Leste" or "Côte d'Ivoire" (though in alphabetical quizzes you'd need to know they count those as a "T" and a "C"; you'd also have to know they regard the Country Formerly Known as Zaire as a "D" because it's "Democratic Republic of the Congo").
Quote from: Grzrd on January 19, 2014, 05:44:52 PMWhile working on this quiz (http://www.sporcle.com/games/ethanman62187/types-of-freeways).
He forgot to put Kyrgyzstan as a valid answer :sombrero:
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2014, 06:19:36 PM
generally, many Sporcle quizzes are quite suspect. I tried a "197 countries of the world", but gave up when I typed in Venezuela and it credited me Peru.
I've also got 197 out of 197 there. When I know Kyrgyzstan is in the quiz, I always put it last. I don't like Sporcle considers Kosovo a country as Spain doesn't recognize it, and I always forget Taiwan, believing it is part of PR China!
Quote from: 1 on January 18, 2014, 06:46:09 PMWould you consider these expressways or not?
Heck no. Being a North Shore native, I am very familiar that stretch of MA 16 (aka the Revere Beach Parkway & I was one of the first ones here to point out that wrong/obsolete MA 1A listing on that LGS) and US 1 (Newbury St.) in your photos.
Not once have I ever heard anybody refer to those roadways as expressways...
never. Highways, yes; expressways, no.
Most view/equate expressways as
multi-lane, limited-access, divided highways.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 20, 2014, 09:16:57 AMI don't like Sporcle considers Kosovo a country as Spain doesn't recognize it
Spain is hardly the best test of recognition of a country. It is loathe to recognise new countries out of fear that the Basque region, or Catalunya might declare independence and be recognised.
Seriously, Spain has said will not recognise Scotland in the unlikely event that it votes yes to independence, despite that being a bilateral thing (in fact, support for Scottish independence is higher in England). Much as Salmond and the SNP despise the notion that the UK Government felt that they ought to have a say and go "we approve this referendum" to make it valid, such action was taken.
The main barrier to Kosovo's UN recognition is Russia - which has long been a friend of Serbia (and this year is the 100th anniversary of one of the fruits of that friendship - WW1 - though, of course, other factors played a part) and has similar issues with Chechnya, etc that gum up the works.
Quoteand I always forget Taiwan, believing it is part of PR China!
It's merely the area controlled by a rival Chinese Government, recognised as the legit government by a few states (after almost everyone recognising the Government-on-Taiwan flipped over to the Beijing-government in the 70s). It isn't so much a separate state, but an area of a state controlled by a 'rebel' government - I don't like it on Sporcle. Taiwanese people hold to a one-China doctrine, as do the mainlanders. Why go against the wishes of both states and have two-Chinas?
Palestine is different, as Israel recognises it (though not vice versa). Of course, many states don't recognise Israel, only recognising Palestine. The UN considers it to be a non-member state.
I think a majority of UN states recognising it is a good measure of neutral standards to adhere to on Sporcle. Taiwan: no, Palestine and Kosovo: yes. Western Sahara and various secessionist entities in the Caucuses: no.
The I-469 Wikipedia page had unnecessary (and incorrect) pedantry on it for some time about Expressway vs. Freeway (as seen in this old version (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interstate_469&oldid=445739395) with remarks that were unwarranted. It was finally cleaned up.
Around my area, OH 18 from the Summit/Medina line to just east of I-71 may have been able to be considered as a borderline expressway (a low-quality Jersey expressway maybe) before it was rebuilt (as two separate carriageways and only limited places to cross over) but now is not (as a five-lane road, two each way with center turn lane). OH 21, even with the Minor Road traffic signal, is still an expressway because of the control of access (no driveways at all).
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 19, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
"Jersey Freeway"
Or "Texas Freeway" or "Michigan Freeway", etc. Best to just call them "Urban Freeways".
When I've used that term I always meant something very specific to the NJ usage: a freeway by all intents and purposes, but with direct RIRO driveways to businesses as opposed to frontage roads.
3rd Street (US 41) in Terre Haute is also known as Veterans Memorial Expressway. (There are 26 stop lights on this route.) However I consider an expressway as a road with interchanges and no intersections.
Quote from: US 41 on January 21, 2014, 08:52:00 PM
3rd Street (US 41) in Terre Haute is also known as Veterans Memorial Expressway. (There are 26 stop lights on this route.) However I consider an expressway as a road with interchanges and no intersections.
Would you consider IN 641 an expressway, a freeway, or a ramp?
I consider 641 an expressway and a freeway. I hope it gets finished before 2080.
I basically consider a freeway and an expressway the same thing. IMO a tollway is not a freeway, because you have to pay to use it, but it is still an expressway.
Quote from: US 41 on January 21, 2014, 09:03:15 PM
IMO a tollway is not a freeway, because you have to pay to use it
Wrong. Freeway doesn't mean free as in beer.
Although this is the very reason we don't call toll roads
freeways, because that would be too confusing to those who don't know what the
free part means.
Quote from: sammi on January 21, 2014, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 21, 2014, 09:03:15 PM
IMO a tollway is not a freeway, because you have to pay to use it
Wrong. Freeway doesn't mean free as in beer.
Although this is the very reason we don't call toll roads freeways, because that would be too confusing to those who don't know what the free part means.
He's not "wrong." He said in his opinion the two aren't the same thing. While this discussion has taken place before and no doubt will again, the first post in this thread asked for individuals' opinions and not for some federal definition that at least half the country doesn't follow.
Except in discussions here and in occasional use elsewhere when I need to be precise, or when I'm using the formal name of a road like "Whitehurst Freeway" or "Staten Island Expressway," I don't consider ANY road to be a "freeway" or an "expressway" because I view those terms as regionalisms endemic to California and New York City, respectively.
The only true freeways are the ones that allow bikes and peds.
Quote from: TheStranger on January 21, 2014, 04:46:12 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 19, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
"Jersey Freeway"
Or "Texas Freeway" or "Michigan Freeway", etc. Best to just call them "Urban Freeways".
When I've used that term I always meant something very specific to the NJ usage: a freeway by all intents and purposes, but with direct RIRO driveways to businesses as opposed to frontage roads.
That's what I always thought "Jersey freeway" referred to--something like US 1 between Saugus and Danvers, Mass for example. Basically unlimited RIRO driveway access but no median breaks and interchanges with other roads (using the term loosely maybe, considering that the interchanges along said section of road may have ramps meet US 1 at right angles with stop signs for entering traffic). Still, it's divided and free-flowing (at least in the left lanes).
Quote from: PurdueBill on January 21, 2014, 11:21:08 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on January 21, 2014, 04:46:12 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 19, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 19, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
"Jersey Freeway"
Or "Texas Freeway" or "Michigan Freeway", etc. Best to just call them "Urban Freeways".
When I've used that term I always meant something very specific to the NJ usage: a freeway by all intents and purposes, but with direct RIRO driveways to businesses as opposed to frontage roads.
That's what I always thought "Jersey freeway" referred to--something like US 1 between Saugus and Danvers, Mass for example. Basically unlimited RIRO driveway access but no median breaks and interchanges with other roads (using the term loosely maybe, considering that the interchanges along said section of road may have ramps meet US 1 at right angles with stop signs for entering traffic). Still, it's divided and free-flowing (at least in the left lanes).
To me the "Jersey Freeway" sounds alot like a superstreet expressway. Grade separated at major junctions but RIRO access from driveways and side streets, yet not a Freeway according to the 'Limited Access Highway or Interstate Standards'.
Quote from: Indyroads on January 22, 2014, 12:09:42 AM
To me the "Jersey Freeway" sounds alot like a superstreet expressway.
Not at all. Superstreets allow left turns and U-turns in the median. Jersey freeways never allow the former and rarely the latter (e.g. US 22 in Union County, if you count that as one).
Quote from: NE2 on January 22, 2014, 12:32:42 AM
Quote from: Indyroads on January 22, 2014, 12:09:42 AM
To me the "Jersey Freeway" sounds alot like a superstreet expressway.
Not at all. Superstreets allow left turns and U-turns in the median. Jersey freeways never allow the former and rarely the latter (e.g. US 22 in Union County, if you count that as one).
I think US 22 counts. Jersey freeway is a roadgeek term, so we are free to define it however. I look at it as the contrapositive to an expressway - no access control, but also no grade crossings.
For the most part, I think I've always seen Jersey freeways with little to no interior shoulder and a Jersey barrier (or double-sided guardrail) separating the directions of traffic–assumably owing the narrow rights of way, which is probably why the road is a Jersey freeway and not a more full-fledged freeway with access control and frontage roads.
But are there any roads we might consider Jersey freeways that have a grass median and separate carriageways?
Quote from: briantroutman on January 22, 2014, 01:31:41 AM
But are there any roads we might consider Jersey freeways that have a grass median and separate carriageways?
US 1 in southern Rhode Island - always at least a narrow grass median, with U-turn ramps (and, compared to US 22, relatively large spacing between each U-turn and RIRO).
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.385567,-71.641631&spn=0.013056,0.028346&gl=us&t=k&z=16
And yes, U-turn ramps should be OK - I-55 had one south of Joliet until about 5 years ago.
Quote from: NE2 on January 22, 2014, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 22, 2014, 01:31:41 AM
But are there any roads we might consider Jersey freeways that have a grass median and separate carriageways?
US 1 in southern Rhode Island - always at least a narrow grass median, with U-turn ramps (and, compared to US 22, relatively large spacing between each U-turn and RIRO).
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.385567,-71.641631&spn=0.013056,0.028346&gl=us&t=k&z=16
And yes, U-turn ramps should be OK - I-55 had one south of Joliet until about 5 years ago.
The Palisades Interstate Parkway still does. And that's obviously Interstate.