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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Brian556 on January 28, 2014, 09:44:35 PM

Title: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Brian556 on January 28, 2014, 09:44:35 PM
Where are there traffic signals on private property (Malls, Shopping Centers, ect) (Not private collections/displays)?

This is the only one I can think of. It's at Hamiltion Place Mall in Chattanooga,TN. it is very close to a publically maintained signalized intersection, so it would have to be coordinated with that signal.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=35.034388,-85.162219&spn=0.000002,0.000779&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=35.034388,-85.162219&panoid=rY43IUHN9hIdlLiFsHxCdw&cbp=12,226.5,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=35.034388,-85.162219&spn=0.000002,0.000779&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=35.034388,-85.162219&panoid=rY43IUHN9hIdlLiFsHxCdw&cbp=12,226.5,,0,0)

I wonder who installed it and who maintains it?

I thought of this because there are some intersections on private property in my are that do need signals, but only get stop signs.

This one is an ALL WAY STOP; but traffic is so heavy that it kinda is a problem.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.074469,-97.079951&spn=0.000002,0.001557&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=33.07455,-97.079918&panoid=-2aLEjrTO_st9ZhosJcUnA&cbp=12,183.46,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.074469,-97.079951&spn=0.000002,0.001557&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=33.07455,-97.079918&panoid=-2aLEjrTO_st9ZhosJcUnA&cbp=12,183.46,,0,0)

This one is a TWO-WAY STOP, and the terminating road has the right of way. That movement is so heavy that traffic on the mall ring road rarely has an opportunity to go straight through the intersection without cutting off the traffic that has the right of way.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.004664,-96.973414&spn=0.000004,0.003114&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.00475,-96.973471&panoid=oAGgP-ow0fCNu8NopCkIAg&cbp=12,139.37,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.004664,-96.973414&spn=0.000004,0.003114&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.00475,-96.973471&panoid=oAGgP-ow0fCNu8NopCkIAg&cbp=12,139.37,,0,0)



Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: NE2 on January 28, 2014, 10:18:30 PM
Disney has a few that aren't on RCID property. For example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.403987,-81.575721&spn=0.015307,0.028346&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.403987,-81.575721&panoid=EGy_b13KHnKDaYiWdgl3Rg&cbp=12,346.83,,0,0.12
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: realjd on January 28, 2014, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 28, 2014, 10:18:30 PM
Disney has a few that aren't on RCID property. For example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.403987,-81.575721&spn=0.015307,0.028346&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.403987,-81.575721&panoid=EGy_b13KHnKDaYiWdgl3Rg&cbp=12,346.83,,0,0.12

Disney was my first thought as well, followed by military bases (which are technically public property but are not open to the public).

I'll bet those signals in your link are maintained by the same folks that maintain the RCID signals.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: M3019C LPS20 on January 29, 2014, 12:02:26 AM
New York City D.O.T. has a program called "Safety City," in which has the intention to educate children about traffic safety in general. Several public schools throughout the boroughs have the program, and children are taught in the classroom. Additionally, lessons are taught outside as well, since each participating public school has its own simulated New York City street. Authentic N.Y.C.D.O.T. signalized intersections are present; however, they do not operate everyday. Only during a lesson, and, because "Safety City" is a N.Y.C.D.O.T. program, the signals in use at the public schools are owned by the D.O.T.

You cannot necessarily see these simulated streets on Google Map, since the vehicles are not allowed to travel on them for obvious reasons. Though there are some pictures on the internet that do show these signals in use.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on January 29, 2014, 01:00:28 AM
White Marsh Mall in Baltimore County, MD had lights on the property.  http://goo.gl/maps/CGP5z
So does Owings Mills on the other side of the county. http://goo.gl/maps/k5PE2
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Brandon on January 29, 2014, 09:33:28 AM
Joliet has one of these as a combination private/public property signal at Hennepin Drive, Essington Road, and Ring Road at the Louis Joliet Mall.  It used to be an all-way stop (Hennepin and Essington) with a stop for Ring Road, followed by a signal at Hennepin and Essington, then the current setup.  The signal is coordinated and maintained by the City of Joliet (Hennepin and Essington are their responsibility).

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.573392,-88.162083&spn=0.001637,0.002642&t=h&z=19

Google Streetview is out of date showing the former setup (pre-2010).
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Indyroads on January 29, 2014, 12:38:21 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/preview/@39.906517,-86.06473,3a,75y,249.78h,86.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1so-viWf5mZYq__qbToZlgiw!2e0

Private property signal at Castleton Square Mall installed within the last few years.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 29, 2014, 12:50:30 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/3ZJwN

Quaker Bridge Mall near Trenton, NJ. Fixed timing.  The signal seemingly looks older than the mall (obviously, it's not).  Also one of extremely few span wire installations in NJ.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: realjd on January 29, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
The Lockheed Martin plant in Orlando has private traffic signals:
http://goo.gl/maps/aE6Lp

Airports often have traffic lights, as do private universities.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Brandon on January 29, 2014, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: realjd on January 29, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
Airports often have traffic lights, as do private universities.

Airports aren't always private property though.  Both O'Hare and Midway, for example, are owned by the City of Chicago.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: briantroutman on January 29, 2014, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 29, 2014, 05:26:37 PM
Quote from: realjd on January 29, 2014, 01:09:45 PM
Airports often have traffic lights, as do private universities.

Airports aren't always private property though.  Both O'Hare and Midway, for example, are owned by the City of Chicago.

I've wondered about what exactly qualifies as "public"  vs. "private" .

Most gated service access points to the Pennsylvania Turnpike are posted with large signs: "PRIVATE ROADWAY" . The PTC isn't exactly a state government agency per se, but its members are appointed by the governor (plus the Secretary of Transportation).

Similarly, if you talk with an administrator at Penn State about whether that institution is truly public, they'll be noncommittal and make many seemingly contradictory statements. They prefer to say "state-related" . Unlike the PASSHE schools (the Millersvilles and Shippensburgs), where the faculty members are state employees and the deeds for buildings list "Comm. of PA"  as the owner, Penn State seems to be a quasi-private institution that takes public funds from the state and is exempted from taxes.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: hobsini2 on January 29, 2014, 09:23:00 PM
I think the better way to word the question would be "Where are there traffic lights at non traditional roadway intersections?" Just my thought.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: theline on January 29, 2014, 11:36:14 PM
"Public" is an ambiguous term.

It can mean publicly-owned, which would include all government-owned roadways and government facilities like military bases. It would not include shopping malls.

It can mean publicly-accessible, which would include government-owned roadways and shopping malls, but not many parts of military bases. (If by publicly-accessible, we mean accessible to the general public.)

Feel free to add other nuances of the term, but it's surely less than clear.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: NE2 on January 29, 2014, 11:45:32 PM
Quote from: theline on January 29, 2014, 11:36:14 PM
Feel free to add other nuances of the term, but it's surely less than clear.
It can mean maintained by a public highway department. This includes stubs that are closed because they do not connect to anything, yet are legally public roads.

It can be a legal concept where the public has the right to travel along the road for any legal purpose.

To reach the Disney example, one must pass either a guard booth or a sign warning that you are entering private property. (Exception: the #50 public bus has a nearby stop, and you can take your bike on the bus and then ride past this light, but Disney could legally prohibit biking here if they wanted.)
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: cpzilliacus on January 30, 2014, 04:59:21 PM
Wheaton Plaza (officially Westfield Wheaton mall, but universally referred to by the locals as Wheaton Plaza, its name since inception in the 1960's) in Wheaton, Maryland has a least one signalized intersection on its property, just off of Md. 586 (Viers Mill Road).
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: 6a on January 30, 2014, 06:55:40 PM
Ricart Ford here in Columbus has a couple on their property, they use loops and everything.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Marc_in_CT on January 30, 2014, 08:49:20 PM
Westfield Trumbull (A.K.A. Trumbull Shopping Park), Trumbull, CT:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.229403,-73.223155&spn=0.001025,0.001725&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.229569,-73.222998&panoid=Oz4godZr4nmibqzfvtcMNw&cbp=12,304.37,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.229403,-73.223155&spn=0.001025,0.001725&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.229569,-73.222998&panoid=Oz4godZr4nmibqzfvtcMNw&cbp=12,304.37,,0,0)
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Alex4897 on January 31, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
Are the lights in Disney World technically owned by Disney?  I know they have their own system of freeways and such going in, out, and through the park, but do they maintain it themselves?
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: BamaZeus on January 31, 2014, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: Marc_in_CT on January 30, 2014, 08:49:20 PM
Westfield Trumbull (A.K.A. Trumbull Shopping Park), Trumbull, CT:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.229403,-73.223155&spn=0.001025,0.001725&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.229569,-73.222998&panoid=Oz4godZr4nmibqzfvtcMNw&cbp=12,304.37,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.229403,-73.223155&spn=0.001025,0.001725&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.229569,-73.222998&panoid=Oz4godZr4nmibqzfvtcMNw&cbp=12,304.37,,0,0)
Boy has that place changed since I was a kid...

They didn't add that parking deck next to the theatre until recently I guess.  They didn't add the parking deck on the Madison Ave. side until the mid80's, when they enclosed the entire front part of the mall.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: hbelkins on January 31, 2014, 02:04:15 PM
I think there may have been a traffic signal on the old IBM campus in Lexington, Ky., but am not positive.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: realjd on January 31, 2014, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on January 31, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
Are the lights in Disney World technically owned by Disney?  I know they have their own system of freeways and such going in, out, and through the park, but do they maintain it themselves?

Their internal roads are mostly public highways owned by the Reedy Creek Improvement District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District), the government body with immediate jurisdiction over Disney's property in Florida. Since Disney owns 100% of the land within the RCID, they have full and total control of the RCID.

The fact that they're mostly public highways is why you'll sometimes see FHP pulling over speeders on Disney property.

Disney does maintain some private roads. IIRC anything from the parking lot pay booths back is privately owned and maintained, as are many of the employee areas.

Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: NE2 on January 31, 2014, 04:54:01 PM
Quote from: realjd on January 31, 2014, 04:03:28 PM
Disney does maintain some private roads. IIRC anything from the parking lot pay booths back is privately owned and maintained, as are many of the employee areas.
Including the intersection I posted.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: KEK Inc. on February 01, 2014, 08:53:59 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/t4HZD
http://goo.gl/maps/eCW5T
http://goo.gl/maps/gW5KV

Boeing Everett
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: US71 on February 01, 2014, 10:20:27 AM
There's a non-functional 4-way at a mall in Memphis
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7276%2F7137282247_806778cece_z_d.jpg&hash=0c197a8cab43c03ab1ff65d22209cff1771f870c)

There's a flasher at the VA Medical Center in Fayetteville, AR
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4116%2F4895999150_33363d9263_d.jpg&hash=57613deb1712f71739a2e3fb30c69c87b0440a81)
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: rawmustard on February 01, 2014, 03:35:41 PM
I remember being able to see a traffic signal in the parking lot of the old Willow Run plant when it was owned by GM. This signal was visible from the US 12 interchange which served the plant. I would have to think it was taken out at the time of the plant's closure.

SPH-L710
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: kj3400 on February 16, 2014, 03:14:39 PM
There are 4 signals at Arundel Mills Mall in Hanover, Maryland.

http://goo.gl/maps/ulhAu
http://goo.gl/maps/XT0nB
http://goo.gl/maps/iLNRk
http://goo.gl/maps/bgBs1


Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: PHLBOS on February 21, 2014, 04:56:49 PM
In the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, there's still a few old signals that are still active.

S. Broad St. & Constitution Ave. intersection (http://goo.gl/maps/kKsca)

I only include this area because it is gated off (http://goo.gl/maps/s9xUp) from the City's public streets just south of the I-95/PA 611 interchange.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 22, 2014, 12:32:26 AM
That Navy Yard gate is odd. Yes, only those with credentials can go thru that gate. Everyone else needs to make a left just before that gate, then a right at the first cross street, which then takes you to the SAME EXACT SPOT as you would have been at if you went thru the gates. You are free and perfectly permitted to drive around the Navy Yard, which is becoming an active business park.
Title: Re: Traffic Signals on Private Property
Post by: Milepost61 on February 23, 2014, 10:54:37 PM
How about NASA? There are signals on NASA land at the Kennedy Space Center:

http://goo.gl/maps/S9iLM
http://goo.gl/maps/gamUu