I'm looking at the traffic maps and cameras at Georgia 511 (http://markholtz.info/511ga). It is currently 1:30 AM ET, and I am seeing traffic backup up. Also, reading the report from 11Alive Atlanta's 2014 winter weather storm leaves thousands stranded (http://markholtz.info/l1) and Hundreds of students stuck at school for the night (http://markholtz.info/l2).
It isn't just Atlanta that is having these issues. Birmingham interstates have also seen stranded motorists. But I guess since Atlanta is bigger, everyone else's problems just get ignored, right?
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 29, 2014, 06:50:34 AM
It isn't just Atlanta that is having these issues. Birmingham interstates have also seen stranded motorists. But I guess since Atlanta is bigger, everyone else's problems just get ignored, right?
Well, Atlanta is bigger. Atlanta has more people. Atlanta has more media. So, by default, yes, Atlanta will get more press, more facebook postings, more blogs, more pictures. Birmingham people are certainly permitted to post things as well, but chances are, people are going to have more friends in the Atlanta area, and thus will forward and talk about Atlanta's issues.
Even in this thread - the OP posted several links to Atlanta issues. Not to be smartass about it, but you contributed nothing! Feel free to post some photos or news stories!!!
^ Well here you go:
I just don't want everyone to think that it was just Atlanta. This happens every time the same sort of event happens in a larger city. Things that happen in the smaller cities go unnoticed by everyone, and no one knows about it.
Hoover police rescue 100 people stranded on interstates (http://www.myfoxal.com/story/24572112/hoover-police-rescue-100-stranded-drivers-on-interstates?utm_content=buffer0f371&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
Rescuers along U.S. Highway 280 face a scene that 'looks like Armageddon' (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/01/rescuers_along_us_highway_280.html)
7 photos showing winter storm's grip on Alabama (http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/7_photos_and_gallery_links_sho.html#incart_river_default)
Images from the storm across central Alabama (http://m.imgur.com/a/woBtl)
Surprise snowstorm paralyzes Chattanooga; faulty forecast contributes to chaos (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/jan/29/one-huge-mess-surprise-snow-storm-paralyzes/)
Gov. Robert Bentley declares state of emergency, postpones special elections (http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/gov_robert_bentley_declares_st.html)
Here is a picture of I-65 south of I-459 in Birmingham this morning: http://t.co/yfUTmlh32z
And here is a picture of I-459 at US 280 in Birmingham: http://t.co/hBvPaHoM39
Ice traffic jams continue, efforts under way to treat roads (updated) (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/01/ice_traffic_jams_continue_effo.html#incart_river_default)
Here is a picture of US 280 in Mountain Brook just south of AL 149/Lakeshore Drive: https://twitter.com/TrafficNate/status/428531227671265280/photo/1
Governor's office says search and rescue teams in state aircraft sent to Jefferson, Shelby counties (http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/governors_office_says_search_a.html#incart_river_default)
But yeah, those 4000 people stranded in schools don't mean squat because they aren't in Atlanta. :banghead:
Remember the Weather channel has this ridiculous knack for NAMING winter storms;.... So its not Snowmageddon anymore its Winter Storm LEON and apparently TWC is stating that its A DIRE SITUATION. yeah its dangerous out there but stay indoors and be safe. Stop blowing things out of proprotion... No wonder DirecTV stopped carrying them.... Enough of the sensationalism.
End Rant
www.weather.com's homepage looks like the cover of the National Enquirer anymore.
And for good measure, they throw in a story about DirecTV.
Quote from: Indyroads on January 29, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Remember the Weather channel has this ridiculous knack for NAMING winter storms;.... So its not Snowmageddon anymore its Winter Storm LEON and apparently TWC is stating that its A DIRE SITUATION. yeah its dangerous out there but stay indoors and be safe. Stop blowing things out of proprotion... No wonder DirecTV stopped carrying them.... Enough of the sensationalism.
End Rant
Hmmm.....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F5febc4d1cf4d6296faa6086ccc87ddfa_zps2d2a6dc6.jpg&hash=61503e754d333693a6b0f1b83c88be381e7c6c9c)
LOL
Quote from: Indyroads on January 29, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Remember the Weather channel has this ridiculous knack for NAMING winter storms;.... So its not Snowmageddon anymore its Winter Storm LEON and apparently TWC is stating that its A DIRE SITUATION. yeah its dangerous out there but stay indoors and be safe. Stop blowing things out of proprotion... No wonder DirecTV stopped carrying them.... Enough of the sensationalism.
End Rant
TWC just isn't what it used to be. Ever since NBC/Comcast bought them, things have seemed to have went down hill. This is also a pretty clear case of mission creep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep), but applied to cable television.
Here is a Facebook photo showing the gridlock along I-65 at Lakeshore Drive in Homewood: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=802405813108112&set=a.707913229224038.1073741827.341712322510799&type=1
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3XpyTtr.jpg&hash=b20ae5dbf90d4ff7d3a2729b30fdb91196a3248c)
if you don't know how to drive in the conditions: stay off the road!
in this case, the roads should be nearly empty, save for a few Wyoming transplants.
I love it more than ever that Directv doesn't carry The Weather Channel anymore. They replaced it with Weather Nation, which is what the weather channel used to be back in the day.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 29, 2014, 11:25:03 AM
if you don't know how to drive in the conditions: stay off the road!
in this case, the roads should be nearly empty, save for a few Wyoming transplants.
I think the three things that annoy me the most are:
–People driving with no headlights when snow is falling (aside from a bare flurry). Applies in the rain and fog too.
–People who don't clean the snow off the roof of the car so it's like driving behind a smokescreen.
–People who pay slavish heed to the radio announcers' warnings to slow down and, as a result, crawl down a hill to the point where they get stuck going up the next hill due to not having maintained any momentum. Slowing down somewhat is a good thing if it helps you maintain control, especially when stopping for red lights and the like, but there is such a thing as slowing down too much!
Yes- the key to snow driving is to remember you have two or three pedals you can use to help maintain traction. The brake is quite often the least useful of the three, but its the one people without experience usually default to.
I think this is where Georgia State Patrol needs to step up enforcement of the basic ability to drive.
issue a statement: "the roads are not closed, but we severely recommend that you stay off them unless you know what you are doing."
and then, start burning through the ticket books. stopped on the freeway? illegal parking. slid off the road? too fast for conditions. skidding through intersections and being a knucklehead? reckless driving.
even if only 1% of the moron drivers out there are caught, it should act as enough of a deterrent that another half would stay off the road.
that I-65 at Lakeshore photo simply should not happen. if you're going to park somewhere, why not your own garage?
Agreed completely. My only concern would be does your typically Georgia cop actually know how to drive in snow either? Should they be out there? Or just close the roads. Wyoming does that all the time when they become impassable- though typically in that instance they are physically impossible to pass without a snowplow.
Yeah, there are too many people who don't know how to drive in it. An inch or two of snow paralyzing these cites? Seriously? I could drive in those conditions with ease.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 29, 2014, 02:32:40 PM
Yeah, there are too many people who don't know how to drive in it. An inch or two of snow paralyzing these cites? Seriously? I could drive in those conditions with ease.
It's those people who concern me and sometimes make me reluctant to drive even when I know I can do so with no problem. For example, last Tuesday we sold our tickets to the Capitals game rather than drive downtown. Over the years I've been in a couple of accidents that were not my fault and they left me with an appreciation for how even when you do everything right, you're helpless if a dumbass is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Heck, last night I was almost in a wreck right on my own street–I was making a right turn and, since it was dark, I did not see the car being driven without headlights approaching from behind parked cars to my left.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 29, 2014, 02:32:40 PM
Yeah, there are too many people who don't know how to drive in it. An inch or two of snow paralyzing these cites? Seriously? I could drive in those conditions with ease.
Not if a multi-vehicle accident has the highway closed, and you are surrounded by other cars stuck on the highway as well.
Remember - it only took 1 (or a few) people to cause a few accidents, resulting in the region-wide gridlock. You may be the world's most perfect driver ever, but if you're trapped, it doesn't mean diddley.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 29, 2014, 03:09:14 PM
it only took 1 (or a few) people to cause a few accidents,
generally speaking, traffic is an extreme version of the 80/20 rule. 1% of people cause 99% of the problems.
if we're gonna have traffic cameras, and congestion pricing, and GPSes in people's cars to tax them ... the first thing we must do is fine this 1% into agoraphobia.
To be fair, it hasn't just been Atlanta or Birmingham either. We had the snow bullseye here in Norfolk, with several Hampton Roads locations reporting 10 inches (http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=AKQ&issuedby=AKQ&product=PNS&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=on). Some of you have probably seen the photos I've posted on Facebook and Twitter of the snow around here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnXJb30L.jpg&hash=a5925c19f5bfb13e51a394753f8ea6af351b9706)
:sombrero:
Atlanta area:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gannett-cdn.com%2F-mm-%2F3171b4a2269b52e727af331d3e2a11e45f5f0622%2Fc%3D227-0-4583-3272%26amp%3Br%3Dx513%26amp%3Bc%3D680x510%2Flocal%2F-%2Fmedia%2FUSATODAY%2FUSATODAY%2F2014%2F01%2F29%2F%2F1391019970000-AP-Winter-Weather.jpg&hash=95c0ae3e3a6d219e9fec4c7479a7a14f0aa711e9)
Anyone want to go skating on I-285?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7zz6405.jpg&hash=70e356963e08fd783120d598173c4b534ddd68a9)
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 29, 2014, 06:38:49 PM
Anyone want to go skating on I-285?
sure. looks like some Minnesota conditions I ran into several weeks ago.
at least, there, they have the good sense to ditch in the ... well, the ditch. as opposed to clogging the road with their failure.
Quote from: froggie on January 29, 2014, 06:09:09 PM
To be fair, it hasn't just been Atlanta or Birmingham either. We had the snow bullseye here in Norfolk, with several Hampton Roads locations reporting 10 inches (http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=AKQ&issuedby=AKQ&product=PNS&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=on). Some of you have probably seen the photos I've posted on Facebook and Twitter of the snow around here.
To my defense, I saw the road conditions map posted on the "FreewayJim" Facebook page when Mark Demidovich stated "I've been working for Georgia DOT for 20+ years and NEVER in my career have I seen the entire freeway system turn red (i.e. <20 mph). This is a snowstorm for the (traffic) books." This was also combined with some posts from news organizations at 10 PM PT on my Twitter feed of kids still stuck on school buses HOURS after leaving school.
At what point do you look at the weather forecast and say "**** it, I'm taking the day off!"? :poke: I live in Sacramento, so the likelihood of severe weather like Atlanta and such experienced is rare.
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 29, 2014, 10:42:53 AM
Quote from: Indyroads on January 29, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
Remember the Weather channel has this ridiculous knack for NAMING winter storms;.... So its not Snowmageddon anymore its Winter Storm LEON and apparently TWC is stating that its A DIRE SITUATION. yeah its dangerous out there but stay indoors and be safe. Stop blowing things out of proprotion... No wonder DirecTV stopped carrying them.... Enough of the sensationalism.
End Rant
TWC just isn't what it used to be. Ever since NBC/Comcast bought them, things have seemed to have went down hill. This is also a pretty clear case of mission creep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep), but applied to cable television.
I'm betting Al Roker has his hands in making the TWC turn into junk. I'm betting that he was the one to give them the idea to name the winter storms...
How often do you see such extreme icing in metro areas up north? Atlanta's topography of low hills also doesn't help.
Atlanta has a large amount of freeway lane miles and not a lot of equipment to treat the freeways before the snow event began. Having all of the metro area leave at the same time was a major factor, the roads became so clogged that spreaders and plows didn't got through at all. Most traffic cameras revealed a huge amount of tractor-trailers being stuck.
Another factor could be the Atlanta freeway network itself. Unlike say, Minneapolis-St. Paul, there are very few alternate routes due to the radial network built for Atlanta of the 1960s. They have a limited, but very wide freeway network that carries traffic volumes that are much higher than in MSP. If you get semis stuck on hills, everything becomes gridlocked very fast.
We had this a few times in the Netherlands as well, where as few as one inch of snow can paralyze traffic with hundreds of miles of traffic jams. If the roads completely ice over sometimes trucks can't even get across interchange ramps and connectors.
edit: I found this overview that shows how extremely fast the freeway network came to a standstill. In basically 20 minutes, half of the metro freeway network went from free-flow to gridlock.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficons.wxug.com%2Fhurricane%2F2014%2Fatlanta-gridlock.png&hash=814beda083281a5937ffd49fefa55da3c42c354d)
Quote from: Chris on January 30, 2014, 09:27:52 AM
How often do you see such extreme icing in metro areas up north? Atlanta's topography of low hills also doesn't help.
We often see lake effect snow squalls that can cause whiteout conditions in mere seconds. That's what happened on I-94 in Indiana last week (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/01/23/at-least-2-dead-in-pileup-on-i-94-in-indiana/20814792/?icid=maing-grid7) causing a 46 vehicle (19 semi-truck) pileup, killing 3. These squalls have been known to dump over a foot or two of snow at rates over two inches an hour.
I went to college in Houghton, Michigan. Houghton is known for averaging 220 inches of snow in a season (October through May) and has hills. These hills start at lake level (600 feet above mean sea level) and go up to 1,200 feet above mean sea level in less than a half mile.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 29, 2014, 06:38:49 PM
Anyone want to go skating on I-285?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7zz6405.jpg&hash=70e356963e08fd783120d598173c4b534ddd68a9)
Actually, it looks drivable. The road is clear, the sun is out, and not a snow squall in sight.
Yoopers would laugh at such problems as they have down south right now. These are folks who go 60-70 on snow-packed two-lane roads.
Quote from: codyg1985 on January 29, 2014, 10:42:53 AM
TWC just isn't what it used to be. Ever since NBC/Comcast bought them, things have seemed to have went down hill. This is also a pretty clear case of mission creep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep), but applied to cable television.
Otherwise known as http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NetworkDecay -- all channels eventually become reality TV
(sorry for TVTropes link; enjoy your day)
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2014, 10:27:37 AM
Quote from: Chris on January 30, 2014, 09:27:52 AM
How often do you see such extreme icing in metro areas up north? Atlanta's topography of low hills also doesn't help.
We often see lake effect snow squalls that can cause whiteout conditions in mere seconds. That's what happened on I-94 in Indiana last week (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/01/23/at-least-2-dead-in-pileup-on-i-94-in-indiana/20814792/?icid=maing-grid7) causing a 46 vehicle (19 semi-truck) pileup, killing 3. These squalls have been known to dump over a foot or two of snow at rates over two inches an hour.
I went to college in Houghton, Michigan. Houghton is known for averaging 220 inches of snow in a season (October through May) and has hills. These hills start at lake level (600 feet above mean sea level) and go up to 1,200 feet above mean sea level in less than a half mile.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 29, 2014, 06:38:49 PM
Anyone want to go skating on I-285?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7zz6405.jpg&hash=70e356963e08fd783120d598173c4b534ddd68a9)
Actually, it looks drivable. The road is clear, the sun is out, and not a snow squall in sight.
Yoopers would laugh at such problems as they have down south right now. These are folks who go 60-70 on snow-packed two-lane roads.
That's not a snow packed road. That's a sheet of solid ice. Even Yoopers wouldn't be going 60-70 down a sheet of ice.
^^ Ice can be driven on, contrary to the opinion of some. People do it all the time whether ice fishing, operating the Zamboni, etc. On ice like that, keeping it down to 30-35 works. And yes, the freeway in the photo is drivable. Just keep your distance from other vehicles. Don't bunch up, don't make sudden steering movements, and for god's sake, don't fucking touch the fucking brake pedal.
Please, there was no reason for the panic or panicking of people beforehand. It's not the first time Atlanta has gotten ice and snow, and it won't be the last. One would think they'd have learned a little bit of skill over the years. But no, we hear about this on the national media damn near every fricking year.
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2014, 03:14:51 PM
don't fucking touch the fucking brake pedal.
oh, and if you do, learn what happens the first time, so
don't fucking do it again.
Just like in the DEC 2013 event here in North Texas, it seems that a good portion of the problem is caused by semi's getting stuck on the ice and blocking traffic.
The DOT's need to take notice of this phenomenon and strongly consider requiring commercial trucks to use chains during winter weather events, or not drive at all.
It is not right that they are blocking traffic and causing smaller vehicles that could otherwise drive on the ice just fine to be trapped for hours/days.
Colorado and other areas that see frequent snow/ice do have chain requirements, and I'm guessing that it probably is pretty effective.
The people in charge In the south are clueless, and don't seem smart enough to learn from past mistakes/situations, or to make an effort to research the matter and how it's handled successfully in other areas.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 30, 2014, 05:27:39 PM
Just like in the DEC 2013 event here in North Texas, it seems that a good portion of the problem is caused by semi's getting stuck on the ice and blocking traffic.
I agree...that does seem to be the issue here...at least on the freeways. Once traffic behind the stuck trucks gets backed up, and the spillover hits side street detour routes, then accidents get thrown into the mix, then the salt trucks are trapped in traffic, and then...
Blaming it on the trucks is a huge stretch, especially when you're looking at a single photo. The situation is common when there's an accident that shuts down a highway. Cars can maneuver around small areas, or turn around and reverse down the highway. Truckers can't do that. That can move forward until they can't move anymore and that's where they stay. Many of them have an advantage over cars in one area though when they can't go anywhere...sleeping quarters within the cab.
This is pretty impressive GoPro footage of Birmingham from a private quadcopter/drone.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/01/eye_in_the_sky_private_drone_c.html
It made me immediately think of the future as far as applications toward roadgeek type stuff. There are obvious current limitations of battery life, distance from the source, etc.
But, I could envision these things being used in an instant traffic report situation, or maybe a short roadgeek-style video. Maybe at some point they'll replace the helicopter/airplane for overhead shots of sporting events.
Just something to think about.
Just out of pure curiosity, I have been following a lot of the local coverage of the Atlanta storm (WSB, AJC.com, etc.). I dread driving through Atlanta during our trips to Florida because you have to stay on your toes on what route to take (Perimeter or though town) to avoid traffic, and I have been interested in seeing what people were saying what caused this mess.
One of the major issues that people have talked about is the amount of truck traffic that got stuck on I-75 and other freeways inside the Perimeter. Local law says semis cannot be there unless they have a local delivery or a base/depot inside of I-285, and with the amount of trucks that got stuck, it seems a lot of them were taking a shortcut through the city that day (though I-285 fared no better).
If this is the case, I hope the Georgia State Police was handing out hefty tickets to the trucking companies/drivers that had no proof (bill of lading, logbooks, etc). of needing to be there before they got them moving again. I-75 and I-85 are a mess with the amount of cars already on there on a normal day and I can only imagine having a few trucks barely moving getting in the way (which some pics show).
Atlanta is a city cursed with a lot of transient traffic because of the piss poor highway planning down there and some terrain limitations. If you are going to Florida, you pretty much are stuck going through the Atlanta area unless you want to jog around it on US highways. This situation will get no better in the years to come- the trucks will be there for sure doing their north to south runs unless there are plans to move the transient traffic away from the city and suburbs. And while the area continues to grow and the sprawl gets worse and worse, I can only see a repeat of this again until the infrastructure in improved.
In light of what UNDSIOUX posted, Atlanta is in a catch-22. Unless they manage to find a way to shift that "transient traffic" to rail, any improvement made to address the transient traffic will just invite more sprawl.
The roads were impacted very quickly in Atlanta. I left work 12:30ish and it was jammed solid. All of the traffic compounded the mess. Don't forget, Atlanta isn't flat. It took me 9 hours to get home. At certain points later in the evening, when I finally was out of gridlock, I was faced with icy hilly roads and had to work my way through the easiest path (with abandoned cars everywhere).
And once somebody stops - for whatever reason - going up a hill... it's a mess as I'm sure you all know... you lose momentum, some cars got stuck and then you have to try to get momentum without getting stuck too.
Most side roads where jammed too most of the day.
Quote from: froggie on February 02, 2014, 02:01:04 PM
In light of what UNDSIOUX posted, Atlanta is in a catch-22. Unless they manage to find a way to shift that "transient traffic" to rail, any improvement made to address the transient traffic will just invite more sprawl.
That "transient traffic" isn't going to go to rail. Maybe some local traffic, but through traffic is far less likely to do so.
The best option is just to avoid Atlanta if possible. From here, I'd go down I-65 to Montgomery, then cut across to I-10 via Dothan, Alabama.
By "transient traffic", I was referring moreso to the trucks, many of which probably could be shifted to rail.
Quote from: froggie on February 04, 2014, 11:50:37 AM
By "transient traffic", I was referring moreso to the trucks, many of which probably could be shifted to rail.
Maybe, but not likely. Much of what is on rail is already on rail. A lot of these trucks are either deliveries that need to be made faster than rail can deliver them, or they are coming from/going to an intermodal yard and still need to get through the area.