http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/health/cvs-cigarettes/
That's a really long time away. I think it's a good thing that they're removing it, but it will take quite a long time before it happens.
You might think that a business that voluntarily gives up $2 billion in revenue fails at capitalism.
But it seems they are looking to push hard on a service to help people quit, which could make up for the lost revenue... and might put them ahead of the curve if it's successful.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
You might think that a business that voluntarily gives up $2 billion in revenue fails at capitalism.
But it seems they are looking to push hard on a service to help people quit, which could make up for the lost revenue... and might put them ahead of the curve if it's successful.
There was a report on NPR this afternoon.. CVS is looking at several options including walk-in clinics, but they're saying at this time what their intentions are (probably so their competition doesn't try to do it first)
Personally, I'd love to see a gourmet food aisle ;)
Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2014, 06:55:47 PM
There was a report on NPR this afternoon.. CVS is looking at several options including walk-in clinics, but they're not saying at this time what their intentions are (probably so their competition doesn't try to do it first)
Personally, I'd love to see a gourmet food aisle ;)
Is that what you meant?
Is it a $2 billion business for them? It is possible that their income does not off set the cost and hassle of selling them. I agree a drug store should not sell unhealthy products. But do they sell beer? Walgreen does. What about sugar products? :hmmm:
Wow, we have the governments making it difficult to smoke anywhere because of health reasons hence less people smoke. There goes a lot of tax money. Then the same governments are looking at or already have made blowing a joint legal. :confused: Is a joint healthier than tobacco? Could it be the governments have realized that they are losing $ on tobacco and now see mucho tax $ available on pot? CVS might miss the $ boat as they could have been a retailer for MJ.
For the record, I don't smoke anything except meat but I do drink beer.
Speaking of beer as a side bar:
Years ago in Oklahoma at 21 it was legal to drink 3.2 beer while driving. Law was changed soon after I turned 21. I guess they saw me coming. No I don't drink and drive and I am strongly against it.
Quote from: leroys73 on February 05, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
Is a joint healthier than tobacco?
It is not quite as bad, but still bad.
Quote from: leroys73 on February 05, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
No I don't drink and drive and I am strongly against it.
Wise fellow. ! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: 1 on February 05, 2014, 07:04:49 PM
Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2014, 06:55:47 PM
There was a report on NPR this afternoon.. CVS is looking at several options including walk-in clinics, but they're not saying at this time what their intentions are (probably so their competition doesn't try to do it first)
Personally, I'd love to see a gourmet food aisle ;)
Is that what you meant?
*sigh*
Yes, thank you.
I own property at the intersection of two state routes and always thought it would be a great place to put a convenience store or neighborhood store, somewhat like an old-time country store. I always said that if I did open such a market, I wouldn't sell cigarettes.
Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2014, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
You might think that a business that voluntarily gives up $2 billion in revenue fails at capitalism.
But it seems they are looking to push hard on a service to help people quit, which could make up for the lost revenue... and might put them ahead of the curve if it's successful.
There was a report on NPR this afternoon.. CVS is looking at several options including walk-in clinics, but they're saying at this time what their intentions are (probably so their competition doesn't try to do it first)
Personally, I'd love to see a gourmet food aisle ;)
Don't know about other states, but some CVSes in Massachusetts already have walk-in clinics.
NJ has a few, they're called Minute Clinics, I get my flu shot at them.
I wonder, how many people go to the CVS to buy cigs and stuff like that versus a 7-11 or WaWa, or Circle K
To be honest, I never knew CVS sold cigarettes. I just never noticed.
Another victory for Big Weed.
Quote from: leroys73 on February 05, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
Is it a $2 billion business for them? It is possible that their income does not off set the cost and hassle of selling them. I agree a drug store should not sell unhealthy products. But do they sell beer? Walgreen does. What about sugar products? :hmmm:
Sugar products are fine for you if eaten in moderation. If so, then they're a fun treat. Ditto with wine and beer. Tobacco (nicotine) has no safety in moderation. It's an addiction, not a habit, and a very strong one at that, on par with crack or heroin.
CVS in NJ does not sell alcohol, NJ limits liquor licenses, and beer is considered something that a license is required for.
Quote from: Brandon on February 05, 2014, 09:14:09 PM
Tobacco (nicotine) has no safety in moderation. It's an addiction, not a habit, and a very strong one at that, on par with crack or heroin.
Thats a gross oversimplification. Nicotine itself is addictive but essentially harmless. The harm lies entirely within the tobacco smoke.
And don't confuse cigarettes with other tobacco products like cigars or pipes. Cigarettes are engineered to cause addiction, and the fact that the smoke is inhaled results in a rapid onset of nicotine effects which reinforces the addiction. Inhaling the smoke also is what causes most tobacco related illnesses. Cigars and pipes, which aren't inhaled, don't cause things like lung cancer and are significantly less addictive due to the slow nicotine delivery.
Now cigars and pipes can cause throat and mouth cancers but those are much less common. For those of us who enjoy a cigar every month or so without addiction (what I'd call below moderate use), the risk is essentially zero.
A tangential thought I had today...
How much land is used to grow tobacco? What could that land be used for instead that might be more productive?
Google answers the first question: 3.8 million hectares worldwide (http://www.tobaccoatlas.org/industry/growing_tobacco/text/). As for the second, one answer that may or may not be smartassed depending on how you look at it would be "growing hemp". :P (note that I say "hemp", not "marijuana" - it has uses other than for smoking, such as making paper and fabric)
Quote from: SteveG1988 on February 05, 2014, 09:46:00 PM
CVS in NJ does not sell alcohol, NJ limits liquor licenses, and beer is considered something that a license is required for.
The Rite Aid in Highland Park always had a big liquor aisle. Not sure about beer. Never saw an equivalent CVS anywhere.
I've never seen alcohol sold at any CVS store in Connecticut. Not sure about Rite Aid, however.
P.S. So glad that CVS made this decision today! :clap:
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 11:06:24 PM
A tangential thought I had today...
How much land is used to grow tobacco? What could that land be used for instead that might be more productive?
Google answers the first question: 3.8 million hectares worldwide (http://www.tobaccoatlas.org/industry/growing_tobacco/text/). As for the second, one answer that may or may not be smartassed depending on how you look at it would be "growing hemp". :P (note that I say "hemp", not "marijuana" - it has uses other than for smoking, such as making paper and fabric)
How about food crops? You know, since the world has so many malnourished people?
Quote from: SteveG1988 on February 05, 2014, 08:18:18 PM
I wonder, how many people go to the CVS to buy cigs and stuff like that versus a 7-11 or WaWa, or Circle K
More than you'd think, at least here. The one I work at sells in the thousands of dollars per week.
It's wonderful that CVS is doing this - but will it affect smokers? No. They will walk up to the nearest 7/11, Quickchek, whatever convenience store and buy them there. Despite all the warnings put on the cigarette cartons by the FDA, they won't stop. And they probably can't stop because it's so addictive. A good chunk of my friends smoke cigs because we smoked weed back in the late years of high school (I stopped because financial problems + drug tests aren't going to fly like that when looking for a job) and I can tell you this: they don't know how bad it is for them. Or maybe they do - they just don't care. One of my friends, who is 19 years old and smokes cigarettes already had a tumor forming from cancerous cells. Mind you, he is fit and active (actually, he's in the US Army) yet he smoked for 5-8 years and boom, cancer already. If that's not scary, I don't know what is.
Now it's well damn public knowledge that the chemicals in cigarettes are definitively linked to cancer (aka, carcinogens). The government still thinks weed is some super bad drug, when studies have pretty much proven that is a safer alternative to cigarette smoking (in some ways). Plus, as seen in Colorado already, it can bring in a lot of money which can go to improving cities, roads, etc. The problem is that the government doesn't want it to be federally legal, even though at least decriminalizing it would help massively free up the prison system full of people arrested for possession of marijuana. (Oh hey, you got a few grams of pot on you? Get in the prison cell with the murderers and sex offenders. Yeah, fuck that.) More than 50% of Americans approve of it being legalized. But the government thinks weed is a 'gateway' to the other drugs (my ass, I haven't had a thought of doing anything else but weed) which can be problematic. And then there is the issue of kids smoking it (news flash: they do already) which I don't really approve of at the grades they start at today (but then again, they smoke cigs at like 6th grade now. Who's to blame? Parenting? Or all of the money being spent by the tobacco industry on those ads? Or maybe it's all of those rap videos they watch.).
The point is, this is a good step in the right direction. I'm not sure what kind of impact it'll have in the first years, but it shows that the companies do care about the health of others enough that they will forgo a potential millions and millions of dollars per year spent by people buying cigarettes. But the real question is, will others as well? Or will they continue to let American citizens smoke their life away (literally) every day they come in to buy another pack?
Quote from: Alps on February 05, 2014, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 11:06:24 PM
A tangential thought I had today...
How much land is used to grow tobacco? What could that land be used for instead that might be more productive?
Google answers the first question: 3.8 million hectares worldwide (http://www.tobaccoatlas.org/industry/growing_tobacco/text/). As for the second, one answer that may or may not be smartassed depending on how you look at it would be "growing hemp". :P (note that I say "hemp", not "marijuana" - it has uses other than for smoking, such as making paper and fabric)
How about food crops? You know, since the world has so many malnourished people?
Don't get me started on that. There are plenty of countries out there that could easily grow food for themselves but instead decided to screw over anyone in them who knows how to farm (look at Zimbabwe).
Cigs at CVS are like a convenience item. If you're already in there purchasing other stuff, people that smoke are likely to ask for pack/carton while they're there. Chances are, people aren't going to CVS just to purchase tobacco products.
NJ Liquor License rules can be a bit confusing. It is possible for CVS to sell beer/liquor, but state law will only permit 2 licenses to any one owner. CVS, because it woudn't make sense to have different rules in place for just 2 stores, may have decided it's not worth the time/energy to invest in the licenses. Rite Aid must've determined at one point that it was worth the time to do so, if at least one of their stores sells beer/liquor.
In cases where there are more than 2 (such as Canals, Joe Canals, etc), the owners are actually different people; and they simply buy into the Canals franchise for the name. Other example is Sams Club: 2 stores in the state actually own the license and sell beer/liquor throughout the store. Other Sams Clubs sell beer/liquor, but it's sold separately in a separate area of the store, because it's a private store within the store. The Wegmans in the Princeton area sells beer/liquor throughout the store; the Wegmans in Cherry Hill has a separate store, owned by someone else using the Wegmans label. Some bars can sell beer/liquor for takeout as well utilizing older licenses.
Some people think beer/liquor must be sold in a private store, but NJ laws don't absolutely require that. Municipality rules may differ however.
CVS' in PA don't sell alcohol and I don't believe I've ever seen a CVS in MA sell alcohol either. Similar holds true for the various Rite-Aids & Walgreens I've seen.
Quote from: leroys73 on February 05, 2014, 07:16:29 PMWow, we have the governments making it difficult to smoke anywhere because of health reasons hence less people smoke. There goes a lot of tax money. Then the same governments are looking at or already have made blowing a joint legal. :confused: Is a joint healthier than tobacco? Could it be the governments have realized that they are losing $ on tobacco and now see mucho tax $ available on pot? CVS might miss the $ boat as they could have been a retailer for MJ.
This wouldn't be the first time that government (at large) has contradicted itself in terms of so-called
sin-taxes or equivalent.
If everybody
theoretically stopped smoking; there'd be no cigarette-tax induced revenue to collect. Despite the news regarding CVS phasing out tobacco sales (cigars & pipe products are included in this ban along w/cigarettes), the City of Philadelphia is
still planning to move forward on a proposal to impose a $2 per pack tax on top of what PA already taxes.
This thread has sure taken off. I like it. Gives me something to read. Let's see where it will go. :coffee:
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 06, 2014, 09:22:51 AM
CVS' in PA don't sell alcohol and I don't believe I've ever seen a CVS in MA sell alcohol either. Similar holds true for the various Rite-Aids & Walgreens I've seen.
No private store in PA sells alcohol due to the State Store system. But yet, you can get beer at convenience stories, some Pizza Huts, some convenience stores, and a whole slew of random places. But only a 6 pack. And it'll be overpriced. If you want a case of beer, you have to go to a distributer. But you can't buy a 6 pack there. Can you even buy a 12 pack or 18 pack in PA anywhere?
Quote from: Alps on February 05, 2014, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 11:06:24 PM
A tangential thought I had today...
How much land is used to grow tobacco? What could that land be used for instead that might be more productive?
Google answers the first question: 3.8 million hectares worldwide (http://www.tobaccoatlas.org/industry/growing_tobacco/text/). As for the second, one answer that may or may not be smartassed depending on how you look at it would be "growing hemp". :P (note that I say "hemp", not "marijuana" - it has uses other than for smoking, such as making paper and fabric)
How about food crops? You know, since the world has so many malnourished people?
Interesting point, that. Kentucky has always been a large producer of burley tobacco. Tobacco warehouses were big businesses in many Kentucky towns and television stations in Lexington (and probably Louisville too) had weekly shows televising the tobacco auctions in the warehouses. Seeing those shows was my first exposure to an auctioneer's chant.
One of the counties bordering my home county is consistently ranked among the poorest in the nation. That situation has only gotten worse with the decline of tobacco. That county had a Chrysler dealership; my county had a Chevy dealership and a Ford dealership. Their auto sales were usually the strongest in the fall after tobacco growers had sold their crops. You used to see a lot of tobacco fields along the roads; in a lot of cases, even small patches of ground had a small plot of tobacco. That's certainly not the case anymore.
The big tobacco settlement about 15 years ago was supposed to, in part, help diversify Kentucky's agriculture economy. It really hasn't happened. The state government set up a bureaucracy apart from the Department of Agriculture. Kentucky elects its agriculture commissioner (the only elected commissioner in the state) and through the tobacco settlement, a separate office was set up called the Governor's Office for Agriculture Policy. When the settlements were being distributed, that agency raided a bunch of other state agencies (including Revenue, where I worked at the time) for temporary employees. Even now, GOAP has its own director, its own PR person and staff, and they periodically dole out small diversification grants that really don't amount to much. I don't think Kentucky has done much at all to move beyond a tobacco-centric farm economy and the state certainly hasn't done much to help farmers find an alternative crop.
Speaking of hemp, Kentucky was a major hemp producer before hemp was outlawed, and our current ag commissioner is really pushing to allow industrial hemp to be grown. The climate here is great for hemp and it also is good for growing marijuana, hence the old joke that tobacco was Kentucky's number one
legal cash crop.
I'm not sure what food crop Kentucky could produce that would replace the tobacco farm economy. Soybeans started taking off here about 25 years ago.
For the record, I will say that I am very much anti-smoking. I have never so much as taken one single puff off a cigarette in my life, and I hate the smell of smoke. My mother and my maternal grandfather died of smoking-related illnesses.
I don't know if anyone has ever offered a logical explanation for Pennsylvania's alcohol sales laws. I was shocked when I walked into a Walmart in suburban Pittsburgh a few years ago and found they didn't have beer. I know that Sheetz has really been pushing for reforms in PA's beer sales laws.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2014, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 06, 2014, 09:22:51 AM
CVS' in PA don't sell alcohol and I don't believe I've ever seen a CVS in MA sell alcohol either. Similar holds true for the various Rite-Aids & Walgreens I've seen.
No private store in PA sells alcohol due to the State Store system. But yet, you can get beer at convenience stories, some Pizza Huts, some convenience stores, and a whole slew of random places. But only a 6 pack. And it'll be overpriced. If you want a case of beer, you have to go to a distributer. But you can't buy a 6 pack there. Can you even buy a 12 pack or 18 pack in PA anywhere?
And I thought Ohio and Oklahoma had strange laws. At least in Oklahoma and most of Texas you can buy beer in any quantity where ever they sell gasoline. Gasoline and beer :confused:
In the old days (pre 70s) in Oklahoma a female could buy 3.2 beer where ever they sold it which was many places but a male had to be 21 unless in the military. Anything stronger (illegal until 1959) had to be bought at the state licensed store closed on Sundays and open 11:00 to 11:00 other days. You had to take your own bottle into a club and pay for "set ups". Also you could drink 3.2 and drive if legal to buy. Anything stronger and it was an "open container" and illegal. This changed in the late 60s and more in 70s maybe even into the 80s. They do have liquor by the drink legally in licensed clubs. I believe wine and hard liquor still only in state licensed store, hours have changed some. I think Oklahoma did not consider 3.2 beer alcohol in the old days as Oklahoma was dry until 1959. Also Oklahoma liquor stores could not sell cold beer so Coors would not ship to them, only 3.2 to grocery stores and "gas stations" where they could sell cold beer. I think it may still be that way in Oklahoma liquor stores. I haven't lived there since 1997.
I believe Ohio still has state ran stores for liquor. But what I found odd is in the old days while visiting family in Ohio an 18 year old could buy 3.2 at a bar, 21 for the stronger beer. Some grocery stores sold beer but not very common at convince stores/gas stations. However, drive throughs were popular and many sold to under age. On Sundays only 3.2 beer could be bought in a bar. I think all beer sales were illegal there on Sundays except bars. I think more places sell beer now than they did in my younger days up there.
I remember several years back stopping at a drive through in WY to buy some Jack Daniels. Do they still have drive through liquor stores up there?
I remember in Texas buying beer was a county by county guess. Some people had maps showing the wet and dry counties. A trip from Oklahoma to south Texas took some planning of your stops or you brought your own. Now almost all stores sell beer and many sell wine.
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 06, 2014, 09:22:51 AM
CVS' in PA don't sell alcohol and I don't believe I've ever seen a CVS in MA sell alcohol either. Similar holds true for the various Rite-Aids & Walgreens I've seen.
There is a Rite Aid in Quincy (Thomas Burgin Parkway) that sells alcohol. (I've made many a "pit-stop" in there on my way home from work :-) )
Tobacco is just a bad idea in general. Harmful to yourself, but I don't care if people kill themselves. Second hand smoke is terrible and should be considered manslaughter. As an asthmatic, I want to drop kick people who smoke carelessly in crowded public spaces and smash their face into a flame. I support drug stores shifting focuses on nicotine rehab rather than selling tobacco.
Now marijuana and vaporizers... Investors should jump on that shit, particularly since more states will likely legalize its recreational use within the decade.
I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train. Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing. Could be wrong.
I don't like smoking at all. However, until and if it is made illegal people can smoke all they want as long as I don't have to smell it or pick up the butts.
I am very surprised marijuana has not already been made legal. As said above the jails and prisons are over loaded and just think of the tax $ being missed out on. I don't use it and I used to be against legalizing it. I have been rethinking the whole deal. It will not upset me when it is made legal. I doubt it will change anything except maybe the price and less arrests.
IMHO,
- In my state, we have a "hybrid" liquor distribution business. The state owns the wholesale and limits the retail to a certain number per county, which go to the highest bidder. CVS and Rite Aid use their size to get most of the outlets, maybe 1/3rd of the total. How can they justify that, along with all the candy, pop, white processed flour products, and meth making drugs.
- HB: You will probably like this article. It is among the best I have read on the issue.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson#!
- Most ag people you talk to will tell you that tobacco is usually grown on land that is unsuited for other crops. Probably the best you could do is replace it with corn, which we have an overage of already.
Quote from: Alps on February 05, 2014, 11:58:59 PM
How about food crops? You know, since the world has so many malnourished people?
Marijuana salad?
Quote from: leroys73 on February 06, 2014, 12:53:07 PM
And I thought Ohio and Oklahoma had strange laws.
In New York a person may not walk around on Sundays with an ice cream cone in his/her pocket. (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/new-york)
Quote from: leroys73 on February 06, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train. Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing. Could be wrong.
As soon as they can figure out how to get people addicted </snark>
Marijuana is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. People won't get as addicted to it unless the companies cheat and put something else in it.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 06, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
- HB: You will probably like this article. It is among the best I have read on the issue.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson#!
I read that a couple of weeks ago. The focus of the story is on a neighboring county, the county seat of which is a scant 11 miles away from my county seat. I have been to the theater and the drive-in mentioned in the story many times in my life.
Of interest to Jeremy will be the references of buying pop with food stamps and then reselling the soft drinks for cash.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 06, 2014, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 06, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
- HB: You will probably like this article. It is among the best I have read on the issue.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson#!
I read that a couple of weeks ago. The focus of the story is on a neighboring county, the county seat of which is a scant 11 miles away from my county seat. I have been to the theater and the drive-in mentioned in the story many times in my life.
Of interest to Jeremy will be the references of buying pop with food stamps and then reselling the soft drinks for cash.
And you have proof?
Quote from: Alps on February 05, 2014, 11:58:59 PM
How about food crops? You know, since the world has so many malnourished people?
That would be the boring logical answer. My answer is more fun. :P
Speaking seriously, though, it depends on where. The US is suffering from too much food more than a lack of it. Some other countries could certainly use the food, though.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
You might think that a business that voluntarily gives up $2 billion in revenue fails at capitalism.
Keep in mind that revenue is gross sales. I've heard the margin on cigarettes is really low–much of that $2 billion probably goes to tobacco taxes–so CVS probably isn't losing all that much profit. They probably calculated the good PR from stopping tobacco sales (less than one third of the US population smokes) is worth sacrificing the paltry profit they got from them. Not to mention the lower overhead from not having to store and order them, not having to train clerks on tobacco law compliance in each state, etc.
Quote from: vdeane on February 06, 2014, 08:26:51 PM
In New York a person may not walk around on Sundays with an ice cream cone in his/her pocket. (http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/new-york)
Yeah...still waiting to see the citation on that law, whether for New York or for any number of other places in which it's said to be the law. For example, whatever state that link talks of that's also called New York but has an Ocean City in it.
Dumb laws lists are 99% goatshit.
Penna, BTW, has the most convoluded and fundamentally dumb liquor and alcohol laws of any place I have ever been.
Recently, the 6th Circuit upheld Kentucky's restriction of wine and hard liquor to dedicated stores. I like that. My state went about 25 years ago from the "state store" model to the private retail model. I don't really care if you have "state stores" as in Virginia, North Carolina, or Penna, or private stores as in South Carolina or Kentucky, but I really do like those states limiting liquor to a liquor store. If you don't want to be around it, you don't have to be. It works better than selling it in general stores.
^^ Illinois has a vastly different model. Package liquor laws (after 10 am on Sundays; between 6 am and 2 am otherwise) are basically up to the municipality (or county in unincorporated areas). Some municipalities stop selling after 9 pm (Naperville). Some limit it to grocery stores only (Wheaton). Some mandate that sales be in a separate area of the store (Plainfield). Yet others have a different attitude and allow sales up to the state hours and anywhere in the store (Joliet, Bolingbrook). Sometimes the store will have their own liquor hours that end before the municipal ones do.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 07, 2014, 06:50:08 AM
Recently, the 6th Circuit upheld Kentucky's restriction of wine and hard liquor to dedicated stores. I like that. My state went about 25 years ago from the "state store" model to the private retail model. I don't really care if you have "state stores" as in Virginia, North Carolina, or Penna, or private stores as in South Carolina or Kentucky, but I really do like those states limiting liquor to a liquor store. If you don't want to be around it, you don't have to be. It works better than selling it in general stores.
Except there are a lot of chain drugstores, like Rite-Aid (and I suspect CVS and Walgreen's) in Kentucky who sell hard liquor. Since these types of drugstores are combinations of traditional pharmacies, food stores, general merchandise stores and convenience stores, it makes no sense to allow Rite-Aid to have a liquor department and not allow Kroger to do the same.
And beer can be sold just about anywhere in a wet county if you want to get a license. There's no difference in walking into a Kroger and seeing a beer display vs. seeing a bourbon display.
I remember a teenage trip to Myrtle Beach and seeing "Red Dot" stores in South Carolina. I always thought they were state stores. Has SC changed its model since 1979?
For once, the corporate world has done something right!
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 06, 2014, 09:22:51 AM
CVS' in PA don't sell alcohol and I don't believe I've ever seen a CVS in MA sell alcohol either. Similar holds true for the various Rite-Aids & Walgreens I've seen.
They do at the Rite Aid in Quincy on Burgin Parkway.. I've made a few runs over there after work, when I knew the packy was closed
One question though, what would you like to see replace the displays behind the counter.
Now keep in mind the retail mantra, put the most frequently bought items towards the back, that way you have to walk through the store, that's why in most pharmacies, the tylenol and stuff is across the store from the entry point (for chain ones, not sure about independent ones)
Quote from: SteveG1988 on February 07, 2014, 06:35:27 PM
One question though, what would you like to see replace the displays behind the counter.
Now keep in mind the retail mantra, put the most frequently bought items towards the back, that way you have to walk through the store, that's why in most pharmacies, the tylenol and stuff is across the store from the entry point (for chain ones, not sure about independent ones)
Psuedonepherine. I'd like to shit-can the federal law so we (allergy and sinus sufferers) can get it much more easily than only at the fricking pharmacy counter.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 07, 2014, 01:40:02 PM
I remember a teenage trip to Myrtle Beach and seeing "Red Dot" stores in South Carolina. I always thought they were state stores. Has SC changed its model since 1979?
SC has the same legal model as WV. The state controls the wholesale, but the retail is via private businesses. The "red dot" is part of the regulatory scheme. All liquor stores have a state issued sign. The difference is that liquor stores only sell liquor, at least in Myrtle Beach (AFAIK, it is the same elsewhere). Many places have two doors, one leads into the c-store with beer and everything else, the other into the liquor.
Until about 8 years ago, SC had this deal where bars has to make drinks from "airline bottles". Actually there is more liquor in one airline bottle than in one shot.
I wonder if they'll sell marijuana when it becomes legal? It has been proven to be far, far less harmful than tobacco and alcohol. It is also medicine. Maybe that's why they're clearing the shelves of tobacco, to make room...
Quote from: SP Cook on February 07, 2014, 06:50:08 AM
If you don't want to be around it, you don't have to be. It works better than selling it in general stores.
How is "being around it" something that's offensive? Don't drink, don't buy it. Seeing it on the shelf is not something obscene.
Quote from: realjd on February 08, 2014, 12:08:12 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 07, 2014, 06:50:08 AM
If you don't want to be around it, you don't have to be. It works better than selling it in general stores.
How is "being around it" something that's offensive? Don't drink, don't buy it. Seeing it on the shelf is not something obscene.
It could be to a recovering alcoholic whose sole purpose is to buy groceries. Then every aisle he/she goes down they're bombarded with booze. At least when the liquor is in a seperate section or store they don't have to face it. While I agree that it isn't obscene, the temptation may be too much for some. Especially if they've had a particularly stressful day.
Would grocery stores really "bombard" people with booze down every aisle? They don't do that with soda...
I have no idea. In my home state of New Jersey one has to go to a liquor store for all alcoholic beverages, even beer
SCH-I535
Quote from: signalman on February 08, 2014, 06:25:30 AM
I have no idea. In my home state of New Jersey one has to go to a liquor store for all alcoholic beverages, even beer
SCH-I535
But as I said, sometimes Rite Aid pulls off qualifying as a "liquor store" in NJ.
Yeah, same with Shop Rite (local grocery store chain). Many locations have liquor stores attached to them
SCH-I535
A sampling of the states I'm familiar with around here:
Massachusetts: Liquor at liquor stores only, though sometimes the "liquor store" is an indistinguishable part of another store (see: Star Market, Mt. Auburn St., Cambridge). Others can sell beer and wine at three locations (hence the availability of Three-Buck-Chuck in only Framingham, Brookline, and Cambridge).
New Hampshire: liquor only at state stores (and amazingly cheap, often 20% less than Mass.), wine at state stores and I believe anywhere else, beer anywhere but state stores.
Vermont: liquor, I believe, from only state stores (though I've seen at least one such "store" consist of a section of a Grand Union). Beer and wine seemingly anywhere else.
Connecticut: beer seemingly wherever, not sure about wine and liquor.
New York: liquor from liquor stores, beer from anywhere. I'm not sure if wine is restricted, but liquor stores do sell it. Liquor stores may not sell beer.
New Jersey: Beer, wine, and liquor from liquor stores, but "liquor store" sometimes means a Rite-Aid.
Look at Hawaii CVS there is Called "Longs Drugs"
Longs Drugs prior to 2008 was in the San Francisco Bay Area prior to the CVS takeover.
I went to Hawaii one time in 2011 and noticed a Longs Drugs sign but wondered how come they no longer exist in California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longs_Drugs
http://longsrx.com/
But Some how Longs Drugs exist in North Carolina no relation to CVS?
Well good luck to CVS for dropping the Tobacco section from their stores.
Around here:
WV - liquor in a limited number of private stores of any type, often drug stores, particular number of stores per county sold to highest bidder on a 10 year basis. State controls wholesale. Beer and wine in virtually every store that wishes to sell it.
VA - liquor in state run ABC stores only. Beer and wine in private stores. Stores that sell beer have "ABC OFF (or ABC ON and OFF, if they allow drinking there) " in their signage. Significant number of "dry" jurisdictions in SW Virginia and also Southside Virginia.
NC - liquor sold in county (or larger city) run stores, with state controling wholesale. Beer and wine in private stores. Very significant number of dry counties in both the mountains and the sandhill sections of the state.
KY - liquor sold in private stores, but particular types of stores cannot have a liscense, including motor fuel retailers. Many, many, many dry counties, with some towns within dry counties being "wet". Dry counties are the majority anywhere 20 miles east of 75 or west of 65.
PA - World's most convoluded system. Liquor and wine only in state run stores, which are not nearly numerous enough for the demand. Beer is available only in lots of a case of 24 or half a keg from a "warehouse" (the wholesaler where the beer trucks would load up to make their deliveries) or as a 6 pack (no more, no less) take out from a bar, which has led to "bottle shops" which are nominal bars with no real interest in on-site consumption, that exist just to be a beer store. Sheetz in long-running litigation to likewise put a nominal "bar" in the corner of its stores so it can sell beer.
Quote from: signalman on February 08, 2014, 06:25:30 AM
I have no idea. In my home state of New Jersey one has to go to a liquor store for all alcoholic beverages, even beer
As noted, that is not true in NJ. Some Sams Clubs, Wegmens, even Acme sells liquor within the store.
While NJ doesn't issue new licenses for this, there are some licenses where restaurants and bars can also sell takeout as well. While they have to adhere to NJ's law stating liquor can't be sold after 10pm for takeout, I can walk into one of these bars at 1:30am and purchase beer to keep the party going at home!
I was reading a forum or message group once where someone thought a backdeal 'transaction' was made because a supermarket in their town was selling alcohol. Nothing could be further from the truth.
[quote author=jeffandnicole link=topic=11538.msg276889#msg276889 date=1391870957
As noted, that is not true in NJ. Some Sams Clubs, Wegmens, even Acme sells liquor within the store.
While NJ doesn't issue new licenses for this, there are some licenses where restaurants and bars can also sell takeout as well. While they have to adhere to NJ's law stating liquor can't be sold after 10pm for takeout, I can walk into one of these bars at 1:30am and purchase beer to keep the party going at home!
[/quote]
I'm well aware of the deal at many bars. As noted, there are a few drug and grocery stores that also sell alcohol. These are exceptions though, not the norm. My previous posts were phone while at work, so I just spelled out what is the norm in NJ and tried to keep it as conceise as possible. Novels are quite cumbersome to type on a phone. Especially when I had to keep an eye out on customers and even put the phone down several times mid post in order to interact with them.
NW Arkansas just started selling beer in convenience & grocery stores within the last 4-5 years. The liquor store owners had an exclusive on alcoholic beverages thanks to their friends on the city council. It was finally forced to a vote after EZ Mart started a petition drive.
Benton County (home of Wal-Mart) just went Wet abhout 2 years ago... long after Alice moved away
Marion County (Flippin) just went wet in the last couiple years, as well.
Baxter County (Mountain Home) changed over to wet 25-30 years ago, despite the churches (and Missouri liquor store owners) attampts to stop it.
I forgot about bar sales in NJ. I recall places turning customers away close to 3am, but happy to gouge them on a 6-pack. I can't recall if the same is true in NY. I can only assume bar package sales are illegal in Mass. because a) I've never seen it happen in almost 20 years in the state, and b) everything else customary with regards to alcohol is prohibited or strongly discouraged here (happy hour, buybacks, fun, etc.).
Quote from: signalman on February 08, 2014, 03:29:43 AM
Quote from: realjd on February 08, 2014, 12:08:12 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 07, 2014, 06:50:08 AM
If you don't want to be around it, you don't have to be. It works better than selling it in general stores.
How is "being around it" something that's offensive? Don't drink, don't buy it. Seeing it on the shelf is not something obscene.
It could be to a recovering alcoholic whose sole purpose is to buy groceries. Then every aisle he/she goes down they're bombarded with booze. At least when the liquor is in a seperate section or store they don't have to face it. While I agree that it isn't obscene, the temptation may be too much for some. Especially if they've had a particularly stressful day.
Every aisle? Why would the scatter the liquor randomly throughout the store. Like any other product in the store, it will all be in one section.
By your logic, we should ban soda from grocery stores. What if a diabetic has a stressful day and is tempted?
Logic? I was merely pointing out something you might have overlooked. No need to be a dick about it.
Galaxy S3
Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store. It is the liquor addict. Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2014, 09:49:17 AM
As noted, that is not true in NJ. Some Sams Clubs, Wegmens, even Acme sells liquor within the store.
In many parts of Missouri, the liquor store has a separate entrance.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2014, 08:33:32 AM
Connecticut: beer seemingly wherever, not sure about wine and liquor.
Wine and liquor are liquor store only in Connecticut. And until recently it was illegal to sell any alcohol on Sunday. There are still fairly restrictive: all carry-out alcohol sales are illegal after 9 PM (5 PM on Sunday), bars close at 2 AM Saturday and Sunday mornings, 1 AM other days.
Contrast this to New York where bars are open until 4 AM and the sale of beer is allowed 24/7.
Ontario does not allow ANY carry-out alcohol sales except at provincially run stores, but there are plenty of the stores. You have The Beer Store for beer, The Wine Rack for wine, and stores just marked "LCBO" (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) where you can but beer, wine, or spirits. But the drinking age is 19.
Quebec allows beer and wine sales anywhere, not sure about hard liquor.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2014, 08:33:32 AM
New York: liquor from liquor stores, beer from anywhere. I'm not sure if wine is restricted, but liquor stores do sell it. Liquor stores may not sell beer.
Wine is restricted to liquor stores as well, except that wineries can sell, of course, and I believe limited sales of local wines are allowed at ordinary retailers. Also of note, liquor stores must be owned by a nearby resident.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
PA - World's most convoluded system. Liquor and wine only in state run stores, which are not nearly numerous enough for the demand. Beer is available only in lots of a case of 24 or half a keg from a "warehouse" (the wholesaler where the beer trucks would load up to make their deliveries) or as a 6 pack (no more, no less) take out from a bar, which has led to "bottle shops" which are nominal bars with no real interest in on-site consumption, that exist just to be a beer store. Sheetz in long-running litigation to likewise put a nominal "bar" in the corner of its stores so it can sell beer.
To clarify, take-out beer from bars (and some restaurants) is dispensed only by the six pack, though you're allowed up to two of them. Therefore, 18-packs would seem impossible to sell in PA. I always chuckle when people say that PA's system is inconvenient...hell, if you need beer, you can walk into ANY BAR and get some. Pretty darn convenient to me!
PA also now allows boutique wine sales at regular retailers, and grocery chains have convinced the government that a separate point of sale in a wing of the building with its own door constitutes a separate premises that can be separately licensed for wine, beer and/or liquor sales. Usually this is done by putting the prepared foods department in that area and allowing take-out beer sales on the restaurant model.
Like Breezewood, PA liquor law is one of the state's features that many decry, but which I find to be no big deal.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2014, 11:02:41 AM
I forgot about bar sales in NJ. I recall places turning customers away close to 3am, but happy to gouge them on a 6-pack. I can't recall if the same is true in NY.
No take-out from bars in New York, but growlers (refillable bottles of draft beer) have recently become available.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 08, 2014, 11:48:38 AM
Contrast this to New York where bars are open until 4 AM and the sale of beer is allowed 24/7.
Not everywhere; many counties have different closing times, such as 2 a.m. in Monroe County. (Having grown up with that, I still find the 4 a.m. closing time in NYC to feel like an eternity.
Also, overnight and Sunday morning sales have been prohibited for a long time in some places.
See http://www.sla.ny.gov/provisions-for-county-closing-hours.
Quote from: signalman on February 08, 2014, 11:18:36 AM
Logic? I was merely pointing out something you might have overlooked. No need to be a dick about it.
Galaxy S3
Not trying to be a dick. Sorry if I came across that way.
No problem. Perhaps I overreacted to your comment. I'm sorry as well.
Galaxy S3
Quote from: Duke87 on February 08, 2014, 11:48:38 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2014, 08:33:32 AM
Connecticut: beer seemingly wherever, not sure about wine and liquor.
Wine and liquor are liquor store only in Connecticut. And until recently it was illegal to sell any alcohol on Sunday. There are still fairly restrictive: all carry-out alcohol sales are illegal after 9 PM (5 PM on Sunday), bars close at 2 AM Saturday and Sunday mornings, 1 AM other days.
Contrast this to New York where bars are open until 4 AM and the sale of beer is allowed 24/7.
It was hard in my 20s to go from that to Massachusetts (1 am most places, 2 in bigger cities and on weekends some smaller towns), but I'm mostly too old to miss it now. Few NY bars are a great scene at 4 anyway.
Quote
Quebec allows beer and wine sales anywhere, not sure about hard liquor.
When we went to Dieu de Ciel in Montreal, one of the many excellent little producers of complicated beers in Quebec, we couldn't buy beer to take at the brewpub. They sent us around the corner to a beer store.
This reminded me of being at McNeill's in Brattleboro, VT, one of my favorite brewers. When they moved brewing off site from their downtown bar/brewery combined location, they stopped selling beer to go (growlers or bottles) because they were prohibited by law (since brewing was now off-site).
It seems there is a new wrinkle now with the many gradations of brewpub/tasting room/etc. blurring the lines and challenging the practicality of some of the laws.
New York, interestingly, now has beer retail stores filling growlers from taps specific to this purpose (as opposed to filling pints as well). To me, this seems like a helpful way to nurture small businesses involved in making and selling beer.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2014, 07:28:28 PM
When we went to Dieu de Ciel in Montreal, one of the many excellent little producers of complicated beers in Quebec, we couldn't buy beer to take at the brewpub. They sent us around the corner to a beer store.
That's probably because selling it for offsite consumption and selling it for onsite consumption require two different licenses and a single establishment is not allowed to have both. This, as far as I'm aware, is the law in most of the US and Canada. Pennsylvania (oddly) is the only exception I know of.
The other problem with carrying a drink purchased at a bar or restaurant away from the place is that in a lot of places it is illegal to have an open container of alcohol in public. In New York City it's illegal and it IS enforced, although if you keep a paper bag or some other sheath around your drink so it can't be determined with certainty at a glance whether it's alcohol, you will probably be left alone so long as you don't do anything stupid. In Toronto it's illegal but it isn't enforced. In Montreal it's legal so long as you also have food. Savannah, GA is interesting: open plastic containers are allowed, but open glass containers are not (guess they're concerned about people throwing glass bottles).
Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2014, 11:22:56 AM
Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store. It is the liquor addict. Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.
Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold. Eating out every day is expensive.
This talk of weird regulations brings to mind the new rum microdistillery in KW. Under FL law, they can only sell 2 bottles per person per year directly. Since they don't have any deals with distributors yet, that's the absolute limit. Breweries and wineries don't have that restriction.
Because homeless people and their 40's are clearly a threat to homeland security, selling beer in quantities over a quart and less than a gallon is illegal in FL. So growlers in FL aren't the industry standard half gallon. They're mostly quart growlers with the occasional gallon growler. Those sizes are too small and too large.
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2014, 08:37:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2014, 11:22:56 AM
Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store. It is the liquor addict. Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.
Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold. Eating out every day is expensive.
But they're not going there to get their fix, which presumably means they might be less of a nuisance.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 09, 2014, 01:10:43 AM
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2014, 08:37:52 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 08, 2014, 11:22:56 AM
Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store. It is the liquor addict. Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.
Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold. Eating out every day is expensive.
But they're not going there to get their fix, which presumably means they might be less of a nuisance.
How exactly does that work? Even if you disagree with that theory, what is the reasoning behind it? Are there large numbers of people going into grocery stores visibly drunk with the sole objective of buying more booze and not any food? I've never seen this before, and I've been to a lot of grocery stores, and even lived in a state with liquor sales in grocery stores (Arizona) and plenty with beer sales in grocery stores (Illinois, Idaho, Washington (lived there before full liquor sales were privatized), Montana)- is this something that occurs in other places and I'm just unaware? If these people are addicts and they're always drunk, are they sober when they go to grocery stores in regulated states? If so, why?
If anything, and maybe this is logical wankery:
1) Liquor addicts are often drunk
2) Because of this liquor addicts don't have jobs and don't have much money, making it difficult to build a solid stockpile of liquor
3) Somebody truly addicted to liquor will make purchasing liquor their first priority
Because of 1) and 2), it would follow that
4) Liquor addicts buy booze when they're out of booze and are sobering, seeking a fix
Because of 3) and 4) it would follow that:
5) If you can't buy booze in the grocery store, they are likely to be at the grocery store when they don't need to buy booze, since booze would be a higher priority for them than food, which means they are probably drunk while shopping
Which would mean that
6) Liquor addicts at grocery stores in regulated states are drunk- they don't need to buy booze because they are drunk, so they can go grocery shopping
and the corollary
7) Liquor addicts in deregulated states are more likely to be sober at the grocery store, as they are there to buy booze which means they are out of booze and probably sober.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 08, 2014, 04:18:58 AM
Would grocery stores really "bombard" people with booze down every aisle? They don't do that with soda...
No, they don't. But they do have endcaps full of beer that's on sale. Sometimes they'll be full of champagne, such as just prior to New Year's.
Quote from: realjd on February 08, 2014, 11:44:36 PM
This talk of weird regulations brings to mind the new rum microdistillery in KW. Under FL law, they can only sell 2 bottles per person per year directly. Since they don't have any deals with distributors yet, that's the absolute limit. Breweries and wineries don't have that restriction.
Because homeless people and their 40's are clearly a threat to homeland security, selling beer in quantities over a quart and less than a gallon is illegal in FL. So growlers in FL aren't the industry standard half gallon. They're mostly quart growlers with the occasional gallon growler. Those sizes are too small and too large.
So you can't buy a cold 40 in Florida?
Pennsylvania may have the most convoluted system of beer/wine/liquor distribution, but for madness at the local level, look no further than Illinois.
In Illinois, as I've stated before, they vary by municipality and county, usually by municipality. There is no state control of distribution or sales.
Here's a few to give you a bit of the variety that is Illinois in regards to liquor laws:
Naperville: http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Boards_and_Commissions/LiquorCommRules.pdf
QuoteSale and distribution of all alcoholic beverages shall cease at 9:30 P.M., or
as specified in the liquor license in any particular instance, and
consumption to cease 30 minutes thereafter.
Wheaton: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-07/news/ct-convenience-liquor-wheaton-tl-0213-20140205_1_convenience-stores-liquor-licenses-alcohol-sales
QuoteThe Council voted in December to roll back alcohol sales start times, now allowing restaurants and grocery stores to start selling at 7 a.m. on all days. Previous start times ranged from 9 a.m. to noon.
Currently, liquor licenses are available to grocery stores and, also, drug stores over 10,000 square feet such as Walgreens and CVS.
Prior to 1985, Wheaton was a "dry" municipality.
Joliet: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11058
QuoteSec. 4-30. Hours of operation.permanent link to this piece of content
(a)
It shall be unlawful to remain open for business or to admit the public to any licensed premises, or to sell or offer for sale at retail or offer to give away on any licensed premises any alcoholic liquor in the city, except during the following hours:
(1)
Sundays, 10:00 a.m. until 12:00 midnight, except that the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 2:00 a.m. Monday morning.
(2)
Mondays through Thursdays, 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. the following day, except the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 2:00 a.m.
(3)
Fridays and Saturdays, 6:00 a.m. until 2:00 a.m. the following day except the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 3:00 a.m.
(4)
Christmas Eve closing time shall be 12:00 midnight and on New Year's Eve closing time shall be 3:00 a.m. on January 1.
(5)
No sale of alcoholic liquor is permitted on any premises holding a Class C license after 12:00 a.m. (midnight) on any day, prior to 6:00 a.m., Monday through Saturday, or prior to 10:00 a.m. on Sunday.
(6)
No sale of alcoholic liquor is permitted on any premises holding a Class J or a Class K license prior to 10:00 a.m. or after 10:00 p.m. on any day.
Cicero: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10551
QuoteSec. 10-102. Time limits; prohibited at polling places and places of registration.permanent link to this piece of content
(a)
No alcoholic liquor, as defined in section 10-1, shall be sold, given away, offered for sale, served or dispensed on or about any premises or place of business where alcoholic liquor is sold, handled or kept for sale between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on Mondays through Saturdays of each week, and the premises must be free of all patrons no later than 2:15 a.m.
(b)
No alcoholic liquor, as defined in section 10-1, shall be sold, given away, offered for sale, served or dispensed in, on upon or about any premises or place of business where alcoholic liquor is sold, handled or kept for sale between the hours of 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., on Sunday of each week, and the premises must be free of all patrons by 3:15 a.m. on Sunday of each week.
(c)
No person shall bring, take, order or send into or attempt to bring, take or send into any polling place or place of registration any alcoholic liquor as defined in section 10-1
(d)
In addition to any other penalty imposed for violations of this chapter, a minimum fine of $250.00 and a maximum fine of $750.00 shall be imposed for violations of this section.
Quite a variety and it doesn't yet cover everything that's out there.
NJ can be like Illinois in those respects: There are some base laws that the entire state must adhere to, but municipalities can make up many of their own rules. Serving times vary from none (dry municipalities, including some that don't even allow byobs) up to others that permit serving alcohol 24 hours a day. While a common closing time is 2am, many towns are earlier or later. A town near me is 2am, but some bars have special licenses that allow them to serve till 3am. For takeout, some towns allow it in supermarkets, in others the store must be a standalone store and not part of a strip of stores.
Delaware has a statewide 1am serving limit; and last call must be made at 12:45. Personally, that's entirely too early.
Quote from: US71 on February 06, 2014, 08:46:31 PM
Quote from: leroys73 on February 06, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train. Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing. Could be wrong.
As soon as they can figure out how to get people addicted </snark>
Quote from: 1 on February 06, 2014, 08:53:26 PM
Marijuana is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. People won't get as addicted to it unless the companies cheat and put something else in it.
This is my biggest concern about legalization, that big tobacco companies are going to take control of the industry and add toxic chemicals to it in order to get people addicted.
iPhone
Quote from: Laura on February 09, 2014, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: US71 on February 06, 2014, 08:46:31 PM
Quote from: leroys73 on February 06, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train. Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing. Could be wrong.
As soon as they can figure out how to get people addicted </snark>
Quote from: 1 on February 06, 2014, 08:53:26 PM
Marijuana is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. People won't get as addicted to it unless the companies cheat and put something else in it.
This is my biggest concern about legalization, that big tobacco companies are going to take control of the industry and add toxic chemicals to it in order to get people addicted.
That was my point/concern, as well.
I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/habituation).
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2014, 02:14:36 PM
I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation (http://"http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/habituation").
Same can be said for alcohol or just about anything else. Why target just marijuana?
BTW: your link is messed up.
Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.
EDIT: fixed the link. I was wanting to put the link in quotation marks such as one would with an "a href=..." link in HTML.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.
SO?
The latest episode of Dan Carlin's Common Sense (http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/csarchive/Show-269---The-Challenges-of-Living-Dangerously/drugs-alcohol-smoking) discussed this issue in detail. I highly recommend it.
It's also worth noting that many non-drug-related behaviors can form a natural high and potentially be habit-forming - BDSM comes to mind (http://chicomunch.com/publ/basic_info_about_bdsm/bdsm_101_subspace_aftercare_and_sub_drop_and_sometimes_top_drop/1-1-0-23).
If your state's alcohol laws are too convoluted for your liking, you're welcome to come to Louisiana and buy alcohol. Without getting out of your vehicle. (http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2009/feb/23/drink-drive-through-bars-usa)
Quote from: jbnv on February 09, 2014, 09:38:06 PM
If your state's alcohol laws are too convoluted for your liking, you're welcome to come to Louisiana and buy alcohol. Without getting out of your vehicle. (http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2009/feb/23/drink-drive-through-bars-usa)
I've never stopped at one, but have been tempted, just to look around. Driving with Daiquiris is not my cup of tea, though.
Louisiana is allowed to sell alcohol in plain sight. Go into Walmart and its in the main store instead of outside via a separate entrance like in most states. Sams too in Houma looks so odd with its liquor in the store itself as in Orlando it is outside the main store.
In general I have been meaning to comment on this one, but been too busy to stop by lately. It seems its stirring up quite a topic as at over 90 posts already in the short time the announcement was made, but I think this whole thing is ridiculous. I am not a smoker any more (since 91), but if someone wants to smoke and damage themselves I say let them. I can see banning smoking indoors and stuff, but this is too much. Look at how much revenue they make doing it. There shareholders are going to see less dividends for sure.
I know that experts think that Walgreens is soon to follow suit and with Northwest Airlines banning smoking on all their flights back in 1990 that eventually led to the FAA banning it complexly on all fights, it will happen to more stores.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2014, 02:14:36 PM
I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/habituation).
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Not around here.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Not around here.
Must be a regional thing.
I'm not sure what the fuss is. I don't like cigs, but it's your choice (just don't blow smoke at me becasue it irritates my allergies). I drink a glass of wine on occasion or a beer, but if people want to get smashed, that's their thing. Why should smoking marijuana be any different? Don't like the stuff? Don't touch it. easy-peasy
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Not around here.
You hang around recreational drug users?
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Not around here.
You hang around recreational drug users?
No, but I know the vernacular. In my part of Kentucky, "dope" is marijuana and "pop" is soda or soft drinks. Meth is meth and heroin may be "smack."
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2014, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 10, 2014, 11:15:09 AM
Get with the times, man. "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed. Not since a long time ago.
Not around here.
You hang around recreational drug users?
No, but I know the vernacular. In my part of Kentucky, "dope" is marijuana and "pop" is soda or soft drinks. Meth is meth and heroin may be "smack."
Do you say "Yankees" or "Northerners"? Do you say "Southerner" or "Redneck"? Do you say po-TAY-to or po-TAH-to?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.
People can become addicted to anything, it's not a phenomenon limited to drugs. I'm sure some of us are addicted to clinching roads. :P But there is a difference between mental addiction (where the desire is all in your head) and chemical addiction (where your body develops a physical need for the substance and thus it's difficult to quit even if you really want to). THC, like ethyl alcohol, has no chemical addiction associated with it: you can drink or smoke weed as frequently or infrequently as you like, and if you decide to stop you can stop with no ill effects. Nicotine, meanwhile, causes a very strong chemical addiction. If you smoke tobacco, you have to smoke it regularly or you will start suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Try and take a day off from smoking and you'll get sick.
Point being, it's very difficult to use tobacco and not be addicted to it, since the very nature of it causes addiction. However, the vast majority of people who drink alcohol or smoke marijuana are
not addicted, since you only become an addict if you abuse it to the point where it's a mental crutch for you.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 10, 2014, 08:18:37 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.
People can become addicted to anything, it's not a phenomenon limited to drugs. I'm sure some of us are addicted to clinching roads. :P But there is a difference between mental addiction (where the desire is all in your head) and chemical addiction (where your body develops a physical need for the substance and thus it's difficult to quit even if you really want to). THC, like ethyl alcohol, has no chemical addiction associated with it: you can drink or smoke weed as frequently or infrequently as you like, and if you decide to stop you can stop with no ill effects. Nicotine, meanwhile, causes a very strong chemical addiction. If you smoke tobacco, you have to smoke it regularly or you will start suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Try and take a day off from smoking and you'll get sick.
Point being, it's very difficult to use tobacco and not be addicted to it, since the very nature of it causes addiction. However, the vast majority of people who drink alcohol or smoke marijuana are not addicted, since you only become an addict if you abuse it to the point where it's a mental crutch for you.
This is an interesting discussion because the degree of use at which eyebrows are raised tends to differ between marijuana and alcohol due as much to societal norms as actual harm done to the individual.
Someone who drinks a lot, for example, just drinks a lot -- until they're an alcoholic, that is, because short of being a full-on alcoholic you're still within some bounds of "normal." People who smoke a lot of pot, on the other hand, are probably less likely to get as much leeway, even though alcohol probably has few real rivals in the breadth of its social destructiveness.