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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Henry on February 14, 2014, 02:57:31 PM

Title: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Henry on February 14, 2014, 02:57:31 PM
Seeing that these terms obviously reflect the unique features in their respective states, when were they first coined?

Can you think of any other terms similar to the above?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jakeroot on February 14, 2014, 03:11:22 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 14, 2014, 02:57:31 PM
Seeing that these terms obviously reflect the unique features in their respective states, when were they first coined?

Can you think of any other terms similar to the above?

If I understand the question, you are asking to see what interesting road features are named after states?

Texas T comes to my mind (HOV exit ramps from the left side of a freeway). Quite a few of them here in the Pacific Northwest. Also, annoying because the cops like to sit on them and use the ramp to pull you over.

EDIT: I notice you spend time in Seattle. Perhaps you are aware of them already.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 14, 2014, 03:34:20 PM
Sometimes the term officially carries on thoughout the nation, such as the Jersey Barrier.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Big John on February 14, 2014, 03:50:23 PM
Texas U-turn - special lane so 2 one-way ramps avoid the intersection just ahead of it
Texas barrier - more attractive than solid concrete
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:38:58 PM
The question is as much "when" as "what other ones."

"Jersey barrier" is so named because NJ pioneered testing various median barriers in the early 1950s. Until that point, other states were using guiderail (mostly cables) when they needed a barrier, and mostly just had narrow grass medians with no barrier at all. There is still a short stretch of original Jersey barrier on US 322, much lower than the modern spec and shaped slightly differently, but with the characteristic "hips" on the side.

"Jersey freeway" is a roadgeek-ism from the late 1990s on MTR, and isn't used outside our narrow world.

"Michigan left" I believe is actually quite an old term, pre-WWII in origin possibly.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 14, 2014, 03:50:23 PM
Texas U-turn - special lane so 2 one-way ramps avoid the intersection just ahead of it
Texas barrier - more attractive than solid concrete

"Texas frontage roads" - a setup where both frontage roads are 2-way instead of 1-way, but there are still slip ramps to and from the highway in the middle. The "wrong" frontage direction has to STOP for exiting slip ramp traffic as well as entering "right-direction" traffic making a left.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Brandon on February 14, 2014, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:38:58 PM
"Michigan left" I believe is actually quite an old term, pre-WWII in origin possibly.

Nope.  It dates from 1960.

Michigan Left (http://www.michiganhighways.org/indepth/michigan_left.html)
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: sdmichael on February 14, 2014, 09:08:33 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:38:58 PM
The question is as much "when" as "what other ones."

"Jersey barrier" is so named because NJ pioneered testing various median barriers in the early 1950s. Until that point, other states were using guiderail (mostly cables) when they needed a barrier, and mostly just had narrow grass medians with no barrier at all. There is still a short stretch of original Jersey barrier on US 322, much lower than the modern spec and shaped slightly differently, but with the characteristic "hips" on the side.

US 99 had a section of concrete barrier along Grapevine Grade in 1946. A different design but still a pioneer in modern concrete barriers. A few sections of this original barrier still exist in the Grapevine area today.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hbelkins on February 14, 2014, 09:16:45 PM
Texas Twist -- a type of guardrail end treatment. Run over one and it can and will launch your vehicle into the air. Kentucky is actively replacing these.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 15, 2014, 04:32:53 AM
Oklahoma Y
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on February 15, 2014, 12:09:38 PM
Florida T.  Side road intersects divided highway. Direction of travel on the highway same side as the side road has a signal, while opposite side traffic does not have a stop indication and side road traffic merges (there may be a permanent green straight-ahead indication). I have only seen this term in a recent CDOT traffic study for my area.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 15, 2014, 01:23:42 PM
Ohio Super-Two

A two-lane undivided road with no access to adjacent properties, and high-speed design (low curvature).  Grade separation optional.  This is a corner case of expressway.

Example: US 33 between Athens and Darwin.

Usage: I first heard this term in GreatLakesRoads Yahoo! Group about 10 years ago.  Apparently ODOT just calls this a super-two, though roadgeeks usually require full grade separation to apply that term.  I have heard non-roadgeeks from southeastern Ohio refer to the aforementioned example as "the super-two".
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hotdogPi on February 15, 2014, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 15, 2014, 01:23:42 PM
Ohio Super-Two

A two-lane undivided road with no access to adjacent properties, and high-speed design (low curvature).  Grade separation optional.  This is a corner case of expressway.

Example: US 33 between Athens and Darwin.

Usage: I first heard this term in GreatLakesRoads Yahoo! Group about 10 years ago.  Apparently ODOT just calls this a super-two, though roadgeeks usually require full grade separation to apply that term.  I have heard non-roadgeeks from southeastern Ohio refer to the aforementioned example as "the super-two".

Would the southern 6 miles of MA 125 qualify?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Ned Weasel on February 15, 2014, 04:28:29 PM
What is an "Arkansas freeway?"
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jakeroot on February 15, 2014, 04:54:41 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on February 15, 2014, 12:09:38 PM
Florida T.  Side road intersects divided highway. Direction of travel on the highway same side as the side road has a signal, while opposite side traffic does not have a stop indication and side road traffic merges (there may be a permanent green straight-ahead indication). I have only seen this term in a recent CDOT traffic study for my area.

I suppose Florida T works. I think the technical term is a "continuous green T-intersection" (though it's often called either a Turbo T, High T, or a Seagull intersection).

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fca%2FSeagull_Continous-Green-T_Turbo-T_Intersection_right_hand_traffic.svg%2F500px-Seagull_Continous-Green-T_Turbo-T_Intersection_right_hand_traffic.svg.png&hash=a7e5887bd8a71bb5406f482f5fd56e2d99918d21)
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: roadman65 on February 15, 2014, 05:12:08 PM
That is exactly one intersection on Sandlake Road near Kirkman Road in Orlando.

NJ once had some similar at the Garden State Parkway Exit 131 and 137 where the left turn would be made before the intersection that was a T.  Then those turning left from the main road onto the ramps would be to the right sort of you on the ramp turning left.  I guess it was a 3 Y intersection you could say.  The advantage of this is where you can make left turns without interfering with each other like a traditional T where turning out onto the main road has that other left turn car on the main road who is waiting to turn is well become sort of a standoff to you.  This one did avoid that situation as you only had to wait for the through movements only. 
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: codyg1985 on February 15, 2014, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on February 15, 2014, 04:28:29 PM
What is an "Arkansas freeway?"

I that was coined by other members of the forum to describe either that Arkansas typically does "four lane" highways by doing a five lane, undivided facility for most if not all of its length. Or, it could refer to how Arkansas typically builds one side of a freeway at at a time, and then later (perhaps much later) comes back and builds the other side. This technique is being used to build I-49 (Bella Vista Bypass) north of Bentonville, AR, the I-69 segment around Monticello, AR, and the AR 530/I-530 connector between Pine Bluff and Monticello. At one time, US 82 around El Dorado, AR was a two-lane super-2 as well.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 15, 2014, 09:01:20 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 14, 2014, 09:16:45 PM
Texas Twist -- a type of guardrail end treatment. Run over one and it can and will launch your vehicle into the air.

Agreed.  One of the worst-ever wrecks on the I-95 part of the Capital Beltway (in Largo, Prince George's County, Maryland) took place in 2002 where there was not a Jersey wall on the median, but there were guardrails with the Texas Twist end treatment. 

There were other contributing factors, including speed, cell phone use and driver inexperience, but the Texas Twists took a terrible toll.  It was so bad that the NTSB was called in to investigate.  You can read the NTSB report here (https://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2003/HAR0302.pdf) (.pdf, 1.92 MB).

QuoteKentucky is actively replacing these.

I believe that Maryland has gotten rid of all of them on the state-maintained network, though there might be some on roads that are county or municipal maintenance.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hbelkins on February 15, 2014, 09:06:36 PM
Some friends of mine had two of their sons killed in a wreck on the Mountain Parkway. The boys had been to a concert in Indianapolis and decided to drive home that night. The driver fell asleep about 40 miles from home and ran off the road. The tire ran upon the turned-down guardrail end and launched into the air. The wreck killed both of them. There are two big crosses on the right side of the eastbound lanes that mark the spot.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 15, 2014, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 15, 2014, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 15, 2014, 01:23:42 PM
Ohio Super-Two

A two-lane undivided road with no access to adjacent properties, and high-speed design (low curvature).  Grade separation optional.  This is a corner case of expressway.

Example: US 33 between Athens and Darwin.

Usage: I first heard this term in GreatLakesRoads Yahoo! Group about 10 years ago.  Apparently ODOT just calls this a super-two, though roadgeeks usually require full grade separation to apply that term.  I have heard non-roadgeeks from southeastern Ohio refer to the aforementioned example as "the super-two".

Would the southern 6 miles of MA 125 qualify?

Yes, I think that fits.




I think the Texas Twist probably makes sense on gravel (or similarly low-speed) roads with deep ditches on the side.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 16, 2014, 05:01:51 AM
An Arkansas freeway is the 5 lane undivided highway like those that exist all over the state.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Brandon on February 16, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 15, 2014, 10:17:49 PM
I think the Texas Twist probably makes sense on gravel (or similarly low-speed) roads with deep ditches on the side.

The Texas Twist, IIRC, was originally designed for the larger, heavier cars of the 1950s and 1960s.  The smaller, lighters cars of the 1980s and 1990s reacted differently to the end treatment.  Unlike their larger counterparts, they tended to flip instead of being redirected.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: mrsman on February 16, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
I don't know if this fits here, as its more a driving practice then a highway feature, but we have the California stop where people slowly roll through stop signs (espcially all-way stop signs) and don't come to a complete stop.  This is becuase there are many areas particularly in the LA area like Beverly Hills that have stop signs at practically every block.  They are no longer traffic control devices, just a means to slow down the traffic.  They are not placed with proper regard to the warrants for placing stop signs - and the driving public ignores them as such.


Maybe we can also add in: Jersey Jughandles
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2014, 09:32:34 AM
Quote from: mrsman on February 16, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
I don't know if this fits here, as its more a driving practice then a highway feature, but we have the California stop where people slowly roll through stop signs (espcially all-way stop signs) and don't come to a complete stop.

More locally for me, also known as the South Philly Slide.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: US71 on February 16, 2014, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 16, 2014, 05:01:51 AM
An Arkansas freeway is the 5 lane undivided highway like those that exist all over the state.

Often created by taking a 4-Lane highway and re-striping it to 5, forcing large trucks to use two lanes.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 16, 2014, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 16, 2014, 05:01:51 AM
An Arkansas freeway is the 5 lane undivided highway like those that exist all over the state.

Sow what does it have in common with an actual freeway?  Multi-lane, yes.  Low-curvature / high-speed alignment, maybe?  Access control, I'm guessing not, or the center turn lane would be fairly pointless...
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: TEG24601 on February 16, 2014, 10:17:22 AM
Could someone direct me to an example of the "Texas Twist". I tried a Google Search, and only got images of guardrails ending in an embankment or the "new" flat ended treatment.


I always joke about the "Michigan Expressway", which is the term I use to indicate a roadway that exclusively uses Michigan Lefts.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 16, 2014, 10:58:50 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on February 16, 2014, 10:17:22 AM
Could someone direct me to an example of the "Texas Twist". I tried a Google Search, and only got images of guardrails ending in an embankment or the "new" flat ended treatment.

http://vidthekid.info/imghost/IMG_5755.JPG
http://vidthekid.info/imghost/IMG_5756.JPG

Warning, they're nearly 3MB each. Don't have time to make small versions.

There may be one or two intermediate angled posts missing from that example.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:19:44 AM
The Texas Twist works OK on a low-speed road, but not for roads where you can drive a constant 55 mph or faster.

"Buried in the back slope" is an acceptable replacement for a Texas Twist end treatment if you're doing low-cost safety improvements.

I'd never heard the term Arkansas freeway but much of US 23 in eastern Kentucky would qualify. It's an Appalachian corridor but when the section between Prestonsburg and Paintsville was built in the 1990s, it was touted as a federal "demonstration project." I didn't understand what was being demonstrated, as five-lane highways with a center turn lane were already in common use at the time.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: NE2 on February 16, 2014, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:19:44 AM
I'd never heard the term Arkansas freeway but much of US 23 in eastern Kentucky would qualify.
Looks like a four-lane divided highway with a flush median. The Goog doesn't show any center turn lane striping.

PS:
QuoteHIGHWAY WIDENING AND IMPROVEMENT DEMONSTRATION PROJECT
For 80 percent of the expenses necessary to carry out a highway project between Paintsville and Prestonsburg, Kentucky, that demonstrates the safety and economic benefits of widening and improving highways in mountainous areas, $3,400,000, to remain available until expended.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: roadman65 on February 16, 2014, 01:42:22 PM
I was noticing that the Michigan Left has made it to Point Pleasant Beach, NJ.  The NJ 35/ Broadway intersection which once allowed a left turn from SB NJ 35 to EB Broadway via a left turn signal is eliminated with motorists being required to continue on NJ 35 further and turnabout via a u turn ramp.  I am assuming the Manasquan River Drawbridge back ups had to do with that decision, but nonetheless qualifies as one in a state that loves its jughandles as solution for left turns on divided (and some undivided) highways.

Also I have seen that Arkansas set up in GA between Baxley and the Satilla River with US 1 being a four lane highway with a paved median.  No center turn lane is used either.  Just two double lines spaced apart 6 feet from each other. 

Even US 1 between Florida City and Key Largo is two lanes mostly with an occasional passing area that has a paved buffer in the middle.  Where its okay to pass it would appear to have a broken double line instead of the usual single broken line because of it.  In fact I was confused back in 90 when I drove to Key West for the first time.  It appears to resemble contraflow lane striping however being a two lane road it would not be used (or anyway at that time as contraflow evacuation was not yet invented).
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: NE2 on February 16, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2014, 01:42:22 PM
Even US 1 between Florida City and Key Largo is two lanes mostly with an occasional passing area that has a paved buffer in the middle.  Where its okay to pass it would appear to have a broken double line instead of the usual single broken line because of it.
Not anymore. It's now two lane divided.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 16, 2014, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 16, 2014, 05:01:51 AM
An Arkansas freeway is the 5 lane undivided highway like those that exist all over the state.

Sow what does it have in common with an actual freeway?  Multi-lane, yes.  Low-curvature / high-speed alignment, maybe?  Access control, I'm guessing not, or the center turn lane would be fairly pointless...

Nothing.  It's a sarcastic joke.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 16, 2014, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:19:44 AM
I'd never heard the term Arkansas freeway but much of US 23 in eastern Kentucky would qualify.
Looks like a four-lane divided highway with a flush median. The Goog doesn't show any center turn lane striping.

Did you look at the entire length of the route?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: NE2 on February 16, 2014, 11:09:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 16, 2014, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 11:19:44 AM
I'd never heard the term Arkansas freeway but much of US 23 in eastern Kentucky would qualify.
Looks like a four-lane divided highway with a flush median. The Goog doesn't show any center turn lane striping.

Did you look at the entire length of the route?

Yes. Got an example of a portion with a two-way center turn lane?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 17, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.

Missouri already has the honor of being the namesake of the one flat side one hilly side twinned expressway.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: golden eagle on February 17, 2014, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 14, 2014, 03:50:23 PM
Texas U-turn - special lane so 2 one-way ramps avoid the intersection just ahead of it
Texas barrier - more attractive than solid concrete

"Texas frontage roads" - a setup where both frontage roads are 2-way instead of 1-way, but there are still slip ramps to and from the highway in the middle. The "wrong" frontage direction has to STOP for exiting slip ramp traffic as well as entering "right-direction" traffic making a left.

Kind of like the frontage roads on I-55 in West Memphis/Marion, AR, area. I hate those.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: tradephoric on February 17, 2014, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on February 16, 2014, 10:17:22 AM
I always joke about the "Michigan Expressway", which is the term I use to indicate a roadway that exclusively uses Michigan Lefts. 

These were originally known as "super-highways".  Even though the first Michigan Left wasn't constructed until 1967, the idea of turning right to go left was common practice ever since the first "super-highway" was constructed in the 1920's.  The idea was to construct major thoroughfares in the region that had medians wide enough to allow enough space for 2 rails of inter-urban transit.  It's a bit ironic that roads in the Motor City were originally designed with transit in mind.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi478.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr144%2Ftradephoric%2FTransportation%2520Pictures%2FRandom%2FWoodward74771JP2-wi-he-re1-x0-y0-sw-sh-ro-finalcopy_zpseb0cc056.jpg&hash=5f87018205e3e274796f9b977411541d7fa4adbd) (http://s478.photobucket.com/user/tradephoric/media/Transportation%20Pictures/Random/Woodward74771JP2-wi-he-re1-x0-y0-sw-sh-ro-finalcopy_zpseb0cc056.jpg.html)
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8737.0
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 18, 2014, 01:49:13 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on February 17, 2014, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 14, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 14, 2014, 03:50:23 PM
Texas U-turn - special lane so 2 one-way ramps avoid the intersection just ahead of it
Texas barrier - more attractive than solid concrete

"Texas frontage roads" - a setup where both frontage roads are 2-way instead of 1-way, but there are still slip ramps to and from the highway in the middle. The "wrong" frontage direction has to STOP for exiting slip ramp traffic as well as entering "right-direction" traffic making a left.

Kind of like the frontage roads on I-55 in West Memphis/Marion, AR, area. I hate those.

The frontage roads on I-30 west of Little Rock and on US 67-167 north of North Little Rock used to be two way, but they were converted sometime in the '90s or '00s.  The two way frontage roads are hazardous. 
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: US71 on February 19, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 17, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.

Missouri already has the honor of being the namesake of the one flat side one hilly side twinned expressway.

Mississippi has those, too ;)
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: vtk on February 19, 2014, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: US71 on February 19, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 17, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.

Missouri already has the honor of being the namesake of the one flat side one hilly side twinned expressway.

Mississippi has those, too ;)


Right. Many states have highways like this.  But is there any agreement on what to call this budget-upgrade process or the resulting divided highway?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 19, 2014, 11:08:52 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 19, 2014, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: US71 on February 19, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 17, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.

Missouri already has the honor of being the namesake of the one flat side one hilly side twinned expressway.

Mississippi has those, too ;)


Right. Many states have highways like this.  But is there any agreement on what to call this budget-upgrade process or the resulting divided highway?

We've been calling them "Missouri expressways" for years.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Laura on February 19, 2014, 09:25:56 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 19, 2014, 11:08:52 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 19, 2014, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: US71 on February 19, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 17, 2014, 01:27:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 16, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 16, 2014, 06:09:38 PM
West Virginia Twinning?

I've often called it "Virginia Twinning;" meaning that a parallel carriageway was built and the old carriageway was left as is.

Missouri already has the honor of being the namesake of the one flat side one hilly side twinned expressway.

Mississippi has those, too ;)


Right. Many states have highways like this.  But is there any agreement on what to call this budget-upgrade process or the resulting divided highway?

We've been calling them "Missouri expressways" for years.

I've always known it as "Virginia Twinning". Perhaps the name preference is regional?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: bugo on February 20, 2014, 04:19:07 AM
We've been saying "Missouri Expressway" since the 1990s.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns." Also quite a few in the New Orleans area.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns."
If you cannot go straight across US 90, they are not Michigan lefts.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns."
If you cannot go straight across US 90, they are not Michigan lefts.

Actually, they can be.  https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.353089,-83.273664&spn=0.013495,0.01929&t=h&z=16  Not all side streets cross a boulevard with Michigan Lefts.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 08:39:30 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns."
If you cannot go straight across US 90, they are not Michigan lefts.

Actually, they can be.  https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.353089,-83.273664&spn=0.013495,0.01929&t=h&z=16  Not all side streets cross a boulevard with Michigan Lefts.

OK, fine. But if you can turn left at the intersection, is that a Michigan left? That's what you can do at a J-turn: http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/la167_la699/images%5CJunction%20of%20US%20167%20%284-lane%20highway%29%20and%20LA%20699.JPG
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 08:39:30 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns."
If you cannot go straight across US 90, they are not Michigan lefts.

Actually, they can be.  https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.353089,-83.273664&spn=0.013495,0.01929&t=h&z=16  Not all side streets cross a boulevard with Michigan Lefts.

OK, fine. But if you can turn left at the intersection, is that a Michigan left? That's what you can do at a J-turn: http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/la167_la699/images%5CJunction%20of%20US%20167%20%284-lane%20highway%29%20and%20LA%20699.JPG

Actually, you can turn left out of some of them.  Going back to Telegraph Road: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.32233,-83.27192&spn=0.002289,0.005284&t=h&z=18 and Street view: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.32237,-83.272564&spn=0.002289,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.322416,-83.272626&panoid=wVJLJ3yAizTC7YApPv0CZQ&cbp=12,106.31,,0,8.5

It's a very common setup, and why some of us view so-called "superstreets" as simply boulevards with Michigan Lefts.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: jakeroot on February 20, 2014, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").

Maybe I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late (and therefore do not understand the scope of the conversation thus far), but I would consider having to turn right then do a U-turn to be a Michigan left in any case. Even if you then choose to turn right after the U-turn (as to continue straight), you still have to do a Michigan left. The Michigan left purely exists to allow you to cross a median. What you do on the other side of that median is none of their concern. And if U-turns are required (in situations where signals are not present), that street is a superstreet (again, just my definition).
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: SquonkHunter on March 03, 2014, 11:58:26 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 16, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 15, 2014, 10:17:49 PM
I think the Texas Twist probably makes sense on gravel (or similarly low-speed) roads with deep ditches on the side.

The Texas Twist, IIRC, was originally designed for the larger, heavier cars of the 1950s and 1960s.  The smaller, lighters cars of the 1980s and 1990s reacted differently to the end treatment.  Unlike their larger counterparts, they tended to flip instead of being redirected.

Texas is actively replacing them on major roadways and all upgraded roadways. Still have them on the back roads.
Title: Re: Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.
Post by: roadfro on March 16, 2014, 06:11:31 PM
Quote from: jake on February 20, 2014, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").

Maybe I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late (and therefore do not understand the scope of the conversation thus far), but I would consider having to turn right then do a U-turn to be a Michigan left in any case. Even if you then choose to turn right after the U-turn (as to continue straight), you still have to do a Michigan left. The Michigan left purely exists to allow you to cross a median. What you do on the other side of that median is none of their concern. And if U-turns are required (in situations where signals are not present), that street is a superstreet (again, just my definition).

A "Michigan Left" purely means that you must right turn and U-turn in order to make a left turn. There are plenty of instances where you can go straight across a wide arterial along a side street, but you still have to perform the Michigan Left maneuver to make the left turn from the same side street.

A "Superstreet" (at least according to the Wikipedia entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstreet)) involves making the Michigan Left turn followed by turning right on the original road, as there is no physical way to cross the median on the main arterial from the side street.