Most traffic signals are usually located within corporate boundaries or in populated areas. However, that case is not so for US 27 and FL 29 in rural Glades County, FL. Both roads intersect at a signalized (originally not until the late 90's) intersection where no settlements are around and miles to the nearest town or city. Palmdale is one mile to the north and its not even populated at all nor many dwellings.
Glades County, FL must of installed the signals for safety reasons as the intersection is located in a limited sight distance for US 27 that is posted for 65 mph.
Are there any other rural intersections that have a signal that are located in the middle of nowhere?
I'd say there are tons. There are plenty of situations where heavily traveled rural highways meet, and traffic volumes warrant a signal. There's probably a lot just in Florida.
I could see maintenance for these being an issue, since there is nobody with a signal department nearby.
US 3 and US 302 in Twin Mountain NH has a traffic light.
Another time we see traffic signals in a rural setting is during construction projects. Usually in situations with one lane thru the construction zone and lights alternating direction through. In rural areas the traffic volumes might be modest enough to not make gigantic back ups.
Usually around here, traffic lights would be used on bridge reconstructions, and the dreaded 'pilot car' would be used on longer zones such as blacktopping and shoulder work.
Quote from: 1 on March 01, 2014, 07:31:05 PM
US 3 and US 302 in Twin Mountain NH has a traffic light.
That's not a total rural area. I've been there; there's a small town at that location.
^It's in a small village and there is a lot of tourist traffic in the area.
Galaxy S3
Quote from: Brian556 on March 01, 2014, 07:01:47 PM
I'd say there are tons. There are plenty of situations where heavily traveled rural highways meet, and traffic volumes warrant a signal. There's probably a lot just in Florida.
I could see maintenance for these being an issue, since there is nobody with a signal department nearby.
In Florida the counties themselves have road departments that take care of them. In fact in the Sunshine State, there are no state operated signals.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 01, 2014, 06:43:54 PM
Most traffic signals are usually located within corporate boundaries or in populated areas. However, that case is not so for US 27 and FL 29 in rural Glades County, FL. Both roads intersect at a signalized (originally not until the late 90's) intersection where no settlements are around...
I remember when it was just a flashing light, but the curve at which US 27 meets FL 29 is somewhat blind one, southbound at 65mph. Still, there's always been more than enough room for waiting at the median...for a car. It couldn't fit a truck and trailer easily, one reason which likely necessitated the change. So Glades County gets two signalized intersections.
Yeehaw Junction gets one at FL 60 and US 441, and there's perhaps 200 people living there. But lots of traffic flows through that intersection, which was a four-way stop back in the early-1990s.
FL 16 at 21 isn't near anyone. US 231 at US 278 isn't near anyone. This could become a pretty massive list...
Quote from: formulanone on March 02, 2014, 10:17:35 AM
Yeehaw Junction gets one at FL 60 and US 441, and there's perhaps 200 people living there. But lots of traffic flows through that intersection, which was a four-way stop back in the early-1990s.
It was a 4 way stop when I passed through the intersection in December 2007. I know it has become fully signalized since then.
There are so many in DeKalb County alone. I'm pretty sure it's a common site along major routes
The entrance to Mount Rushmore has a traffic light, because it has a lot of tourists. It's still rural, though.
When I still lived in Minnesota, we took a drive west of the Cities one day and I found a traffic signal at MN-7 and U.S. 71, south of Willmar. It seemed like an unnecessary installation for the volume of traffic on either road. I remember it as being a box spanwire installation, but looking at GSV just now, http://goo.gl/maps/XlxxD I noticed it's still there and is a typical Minnesota mastarm installation. It looks like a roundabout would be a better idea for this intersection rather than the signal or the 4-way stop that likely preceded it.
Quote from: ET21 on March 02, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
There are so many in DeKalb County alone. I'm pretty sure it's a common site along major routes
But most, if not all are near a municipality such as DeKalb, Sycamore, Sandwich, Waterman, Hinckley, or Genoa.
I've yet to see one in a completely rural area in Illinois. Usually those tend to be controlled by all-way stop signs.
Does flashing red/yellow count?
what's the highest speed limit for a road with a traffic light? TX-71 heading out from the airport towards Austin has 70mph, IIRC, and one traffic light remaining as of 2009. they may have made it a grade separation by now.
I can't think of 75mph and a traffic light anywhere.
Quote from: 1 on March 03, 2014, 11:09:11 AM
Does flashing red/yellow count?
No. These are warning beacons (yellow) or for stop signs (red).
In my opinion, rural areas should require roundabouts. Those on the primary road see cars approaching the intersection along the secondary road and will speed up to make sure they make the light. That seems pretty dangerous. Besides, roundabouts won't require power connections in the so called "total rural area".
Quote from: Brandon on March 03, 2014, 10:55:49 AM
Quote from: ET21 on March 02, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
There are so many in DeKalb County alone. I'm pretty sure it's a common site along major routes
But most, if not all are near a municipality such as DeKalb, Sycamore, Sandwich, Waterman, Hinckley, or Genoa.
I've yet to see one in a completely rural area in Illinois. Usually those tend to be controlled by all-way stop signs.
IL-38 and Meredith Ave would be considered a completely rural intersection. But considering the others, most are in cities yes
A blanket 'roundabouts in rural areas' isn't the answer in many cases. There could be sight limitations or unusually heavy truck traffic at the intersection. Maybe the tragic light predated the era before roundabouts.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 03, 2014, 08:09:21 PM
Maybe the tragic light predated the era before roundabouts.
But did it predate traffic circles?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 03, 2014, 08:09:21 PM
A blanket 'roundabouts in rural areas' isn't the answer in many cases. There could be sight limitations or unusually heavy truck traffic at the intersection. Maybe the tragic light predated the era before roundabouts.
Even if the tragic light was installed before roundabouts, why can't they change it? And what makes it so tragic?
Damn spell check.
Changing it costs money. If it's not broken...
Some states simply didn't use traffic circles. And those in NJ that I would consider rural (ie, Rt 70's Red Lion & 4 Mile circles) still experience congestion at times!
NJ, CT, and RI have no rural sections.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 03, 2014, 08:53:26 PM
Some states simply didn't use traffic circles.
Which states? Florida had a rural one at Conway and Hoffner (now it's a suburban traffic light).
Quote from: 1 on March 03, 2014, 08:57:08 PM
NJ, CT, and RI have no rural sections.
bahahahaha
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on March 02, 2014, 06:00:22 PM
When I still lived in Minnesota, we took a drive west of the Cities one day and I found a traffic signal at MN-7 and U.S. 71, south of Willmar. It seemed like an unnecessary installation for the volume of traffic on either road. I remember it as being a box spanwire installation, but looking at GSV just now, http://goo.gl/maps/XlxxD I noticed it's still there and is a typical Minnesota mastarm installation. It looks like a roundabout would be a better idea for this intersection rather than the signal or the 4-way stop that likely preceded it.
Years ago, when I was driving westbound on US 14, I believe they had one at US 71 which was completely rural. I remember thinking that one was an odd place for one.
In Iowa, they have one on Iowa 2 just west of the I-29 interchange for all the truck stops and other businesses there. I don't know if that one should totally count, because if the truck stops weren't there, there wouldn't be one there. But other than those businesses, it's all rural there.
In Nebraska, they have one on US 34 east of Lincoln. It's the road which ultimately goes north to the east side of Waverly and south to connect with NE 43 south of NE 2, whose street name I don't remember offhand at the moment. That was another one I thought was odd the first time I went through there, which was when I was on US 34. I didn't think Lincoln went that far east.
Roundabouts aren't the end-all solution. They're better in suburban applications, since they're cheaper than traffic signals (though a modified ROW is required), and often direct constant streams of traffic better.
In rural settings with two high speed highways, you'd benefit more with a signal in my opinion, especially if one corridor has priority.
Anywho, here's a few:
CA-33 & CA-41
http://goo.gl/maps/XKbwY
CA-33 & CA-46
http://goo.gl/maps/s0YkC
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 06, 2014, 05:47:27 AM
Roundabouts aren't the end-all solution. They're better in suburban applications, since they're cheaper than traffic signals (though a modified ROW is required), and often direct constant streams of traffic better.
Anywho, here's a few:
CA-33 & CA-41
http://goo.gl/maps/XKbwY
CA-33 & CA-46
http://goo.gl/maps/s0YkC
With that said, what do you think of the series of roundabouts along Guide Meridian Rd (Highway 539) north of Bellingham? There's four roundabouts in a row. I drive through them once in a while, and never have I thought a signal would be better. Definitely a pretty rural area. Trucks use the route a lot going to BC, so there's that.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3425%2F3698228016_60963b5dde_z.jpg&hash=3fb94a7f0f20657ecfa44c7e9ea25e4802c03805)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 06, 2014, 05:47:27 AM
In rural settings with two high speed highways, you'd benefit more with a signal in my opinion, especially if one corridor has priority.
So Ten Mile Rd (pictured above) does not intersect a high-speed road, but this roundabout south of Arlington (http://goo.gl/gSVF7x) (SR 9 at 172nd) does:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsdot.wa.gov%2FNR%2Frdonlyres%2FE9008B1B-AA7B-4938-81E1-BE2BC394BCA7%2F0%2FRoundabout.jpg&hash=3ca971aa69e1d4edb58eb13761115deda91cca2c)
Yes, it's a rendering, but we both know it was built.
If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.
Quote from: jake on March 06, 2014, 02:24:03 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3425%2F3698228016_60963b5dde_z.jpg&hash=3fb94a7f0f20657ecfa44c7e9ea25e4802c03805)
This is silly. Why would a high speed highway and what seems like a minor road require a roundabout? A stop sign would suffice for the minor road or maybe a traffic signal. Traffic signals, while a little more expensive (with maintenance of course) still favors better traffic flow for preferred routes. This slows the preferred route.
Quote from: jake on March 06, 2014, 02:24:03 PM
So Ten Mile Rd (pictured above) does not intersect a high-speed road, but this roundabout south of Arlington (http://goo.gl/gSVF7x) (SR 9 at 172nd) does:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsdot.wa.gov%2FNR%2Frdonlyres%2FE9008B1B-AA7B-4938-81E1-BE2BC394BCA7%2F0%2FRoundabout.jpg&hash=3ca971aa69e1d4edb58eb13761115deda91cca2c)
Yes, it's a rendering, but we both know it was built.
WSDOT is recently obsessed with roundabouts, so yes I believe it. It's a better application when both roads have the same priority, but I wouldn't use it on high speed roadways.
Quote from: Alps on March 06, 2014, 06:28:53 PM
If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.
there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph. not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.
as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual. then the difference is glaring.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 06, 2014, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Alps on March 06, 2014, 06:28:53 PM
If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.
there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph. not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.
as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual. then the difference is glaring.
Even equipped with a truck apron, it makes for awkward situations with big rigs.
If the radius were the same as a modern cloverleaf ramp, and other factors supported it, I think it would be feasible to have a larger roundabout in areas such as KEK's picture of the CA 33 & CA 41 junction.
Here's a roundabout at US 378 and SC 391 in South Carolina:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lexington,+sc&ll=34.042756,-81.543698&spn=0.002912,0.004823&hnear=Lexington,+Lexington+County,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=18
Quote from: PColumbus73 on March 06, 2014, 10:08:36 PM
If the radius were the same as a modern cloverleaf ramp, and other factors supported it, I think it would be feasible to have a larger roundabout in areas such as KEK's picture of the CA 33 & CA 41 junction.
Here's a roundabout at US 378 and SC 391 in South Carolina:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lexington,+sc&ll=34.042756,-81.543698&spn=0.002912,0.004823&hnear=Lexington,+Lexington+County,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=18
Strictly speaking, that's a traffic circle, not a roundabout. The problem with the bigger roundabouts is that people forget their lack of priority and just go screaming into them at 40 miles an hour, which defeats the safety aspect of roundabouts (injury collision likely). Modern roundabouts are small enough to make sure people slow down enough that they don't have to stop (gas saving and safety feature) but are large enough to make sure trucks and other large vehicles can manage them without too much difficulty.
Take this roundabout near Monroe, WA (http://goo.gl/vJxZlJ) as an example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKxuB4eF.png&hash=af07645e8de9672450bb5129340840baf6dd66f0)
It's large enough to comfortably accommodate large trucks, but small enough (with enough deflection at the entry points) to slow traffic to a pace more in-tune with modern roundabouts (with all the safety benefits in tow). It's worth noting that this roundabout (SR 522 @ Main Street) was one of the very first roundabouts in Washington State. It's also my favorite roundabout in the whole of the US.
Another really nice set of roundabouts near Lacey, WA (http://goo.gl/3rYnFo). They're nice in the same way as the roundabout above. Both one-way couplets meet at roundabouts on either side of the city:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmqvLUfa.png&hash=36c9ac9f26a78955ce362a7480215a94403f588b)
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
QuoteWhen I still lived in Minnesota, we took a drive west of the Cities one day and I found a traffic signal at MN-7 and U.S. 71, south of Willmar. It seemed like an unnecessary installation for the volume of traffic on either road. I remember it as being a box spanwire installation, but looking at GSV just now, http://goo.gl/maps/XlxxD I noticed it's still there and is a typical Minnesota mastarm installation. It looks like a roundabout would be a better idea for this intersection rather than the signal or the 4-way stop that likely preceded it.
DandyDan mentioned US 14/US 71. There's also US 75/US 212 which is just as rural. All three locations are, IMO, candidates for roundabouts.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 01:22:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?
Are you asking if they buy more ROW than they need in case future expansion is done, or if they actually build projects large to use up that ROW?
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 01:22:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?
Are you asking if they buy more ROW than they need in case future expansion is done, or if they actually build projects large to use up that ROW?
Kind of both. My thought is that they buy AND use all the available right of way, because the way I think of it, the closer the roads and such come to the edge of the ROW, the harder it is for somebody else to buy that land (like a restaurant wanting to expand a parking lot). I have no experience in land buying, but I'd imagine land in use is more expensive to acquire then empty land (obviously).
There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens. Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 07, 2014, 04:44:45 PM
There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens. Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.
That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 06, 2014, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Alps on March 06, 2014, 06:28:53 PM
If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.
there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph. not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.
as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual. then the difference is glaring.
Assume that you will have to yield when you get the roundabout. That's what I'm saying.
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 06:12:22 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 07, 2014, 04:44:45 PM
There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens. Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.
That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.
Well not only that, but every business at Dollar's Corner (WA-502 & NE 72nd Ave) got screwed. A vintage burger place I liked closed due to the highway.
There's this three-way beacon (http://goo.gl/maps/3nU3u) at M-53 and M-90 northwest of Brown City, MI that's completely surrounded by farmland.
Blinker lights are all over the place in rural Michigan, even in the UP.
Something like this, however, is less common: M-43 @ M-40, Paw Paw, MI (https://www.google.com/maps/place/31787+Michigan+40/@42.302833,-85.878754,3a,75y,45.84h,87.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s5SlB3ZLOrerfKRePFO6Guw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x881768927b21fe2b:0x2965265e11069cab)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 08, 2014, 06:17:55 AM
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 06:12:22 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on March 07, 2014, 04:44:45 PM
There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens. Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.
That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.
Well not only that, but every business at Dollar's Corner (WA-502 & NE 72nd Ave) got screwed. A vintage burger place I liked closed due to the highway.
I only just noticed thanks to historical imagery that this interchange was only built a few years ago. WTF?
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
I'm of the opinion that every 4 way stop should be replaced with a roundabout. I hate them. Being forced to come to a complete stop (or risk a ticket) even though I can see no cars coming for miles always annoys me.
I don't know why that one is so large though. You'd think a much smaller roundabout would have been enough.
I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.
Quote from: realjd on March 13, 2014, 08:16:46 AM
I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.
The only one that I know of that is really a direct pull from England is in Dimondale, Michigan:
Creyts Rd @ E Rd (http://goo.gl/CCHxK8)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mini-roundabout.com%2Fimages%2Fdimondalemini2.jpg&hash=9c01403956f0e7f68f96905dbaf7cfe7d7d98f09)
Literally I mean look at the bollard. Not only is it the same bollard from England, it has the same "keep left/right" sign as from England. Obviously they forgot about the MUTCD "keep right" sign and replaced it soon after. This was from the age before mini roundabouts had a US standard, so they had to go somewhere to get the right geometry and England was that source. It opened in May 2001.
US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.
Quote from: realjd on March 13, 2014, 08:16:46 AM
I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.
They tried them in San Francisco (on "The Wiggle" bike route), and too many drivers would simply fail to yield.
I don't know if they were really "UK style" though, the intersections are much smaller than the one Jake posted. (Here's where I almost died twice: https://goo.gl/maps/wmLKn )
Quote from: flowmotion on March 14, 2014, 01:50:21 AM
Quote from: realjd on March 13, 2014, 08:16:46 AM
I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.
They tried them in San Francisco (on "The Wiggle" bike route), and too many drivers would simply fail to yield.
I don't know if they were really "UK style" though, the intersections are much smaller than the one Jake posted. (Here's where I almost died twice: https://goo.gl/maps/wmLKn )
Examples of what I'm talking about are here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Southampton/@50.900767,-1.390729,3a,75y,269.43h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s706kLTTKYCIbK0AbSofzOQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x48738957be152909:0xa78c5a6a4cda71f0
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9017,-1.390937,3a,75y,359.01h,89.08t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sp-9rIL0c0bw5ecBJQcgqVQ!2e0
Were they well marked?
Quote from: doorknob60 on March 14, 2014, 12:52:31 AM
US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.
I wonder how we're defining rural for purposes of this thread. KEK earlier had two examples that had nothing at the corner except the signal. Here, it's arguable that while no one lives that close to the intersection, there is still activity at this intersection, given the businesses that exist at the corner.
One stark difference between the two situations, is that this corner has pedestrian signals and cross-walks. Maybe some of the workers at the Chevron will walk to Burger King for lunch. Whereas at 33/41, there is absolutely nothing.
In any event, this is not too surprising. The warrants for traffic lights deal with the traffic, not the surrounding area. The junction of two busy highways may need a traffic light, even if there are no homes or businesses around.
Quote from: mrsman on March 14, 2014, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on March 14, 2014, 12:52:31 AM
US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.
I wonder how we're defining rural for purposes of this thread. KEK earlier had two examples that had nothing at the corner except the signal. Here, it's arguable that while no one lives that close to the intersection, there is still activity at this intersection, given the businesses that exist at the corner.
One stark difference between the two situations, is that this corner has pedestrian signals and cross-walks. Maybe some of the workers at the Chevron will walk to Burger King for lunch. Whereas at 33/41, there is absolutely nothing.
In any event, this is not too surprising. The warrants for traffic lights deal with the traffic, not the surrounding area. The junction of two busy highways may need a traffic light, even if there are no homes or businesses around.
I've stopped at the 76 station on the corner there. Both of those roads are well traveled even if this particular intersection is in the middle of the desert. I usually see a large number of trucks in particular.
Quote from: realjd on March 14, 2014, 03:21:15 PM
I've stopped at the 76 station on the corner there. Both of those roads are well traveled even if this particular intersection is in the middle of the desert. I usually see a large number of trucks in particular.
That makes sense since CA-58 is a major trucking corridor that links the agricultural areas in central California to the desert southwest and interior mountain west (via I-15 and I-40).
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 04:10:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: jake on March 07, 2014, 01:22:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?
Are you asking if they buy more ROW than they need in case future expansion is done, or if they actually build projects large to use up that ROW?
Kind of both. My thought is that they buy AND use all the available right of way, because the way I think of it, the closer the roads and such come to the edge of the ROW, the harder it is for somebody else to buy that land (like a restaurant wanting to expand a parking lot). I have no experience in land buying, but I'd imagine land in use is more expensive to acquire then empty land (obviously).
Not a DOT employee, but the way I understand it, there would be no need to do so. My understanding is that the title to the ROW is owned by the DOT itself. If the DOT doesn't want people buying up the land, it can simply decline to sell it to them. This is why DOTs will buy up land in anticipation of future projects, even when there won't be funding to actually build them for years.
Quote from: realjd on March 14, 2014, 03:21:15 PM
Quote from: mrsman on March 14, 2014, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on March 14, 2014, 12:52:31 AM
US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.
I wonder how we're defining rural for purposes of this thread. KEK earlier had two examples that had nothing at the corner except the signal. Here, it's arguable that while no one lives that close to the intersection, there is still activity at this intersection, given the businesses that exist at the corner.
One stark difference between the two situations, is that this corner has pedestrian signals and cross-walks. Maybe some of the workers at the Chevron will walk to Burger King for lunch. Whereas at 33/41, there is absolutely nothing.
In any event, this is not too surprising. The warrants for traffic lights deal with the traffic, not the surrounding area. The junction of two busy highways may need a traffic light, even if there are no homes or businesses around.
I've stopped at the 76 station on the corner there. Both of those roads are well traveled even if this particular intersection is in the middle of the desert. I usually see a large number of trucks in particular.
I wasn't arguing that. Both these highways are very important highways in this region and get decent amounts of traffic. Anything besides a traffic light (or maybe a roundabout) would be a disaster. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this gets replaced by a grade separated interchange of some kind (maybe a diamond, but a lot of things could work). And I can see how rural could be a bit ambiguous in this interchange. I see a difference between being "rural" or "in the middle of nowhere" and there being nothing there. This intersection falls under the former.
Quote from: doorknob60 on March 16, 2014, 05:57:10 AM
Quote from: realjd on March 14, 2014, 03:21:15 PM
Quote from: mrsman on March 14, 2014, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on March 14, 2014, 12:52:31 AM
US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.
I wonder how we're defining rural for purposes of this thread. KEK earlier had two examples that had nothing at the corner except the signal. Here, it's arguable that while no one lives that close to the intersection, there is still activity at this intersection, given the businesses that exist at the corner.
One stark difference between the two situations, is that this corner has pedestrian signals and cross-walks. Maybe some of the workers at the Chevron will walk to Burger King for lunch. Whereas at 33/41, there is absolutely nothing.
In any event, this is not too surprising. The warrants for traffic lights deal with the traffic, not the surrounding area. The junction of two busy highways may need a traffic light, even if there are no homes or businesses around.
I've stopped at the 76 station on the corner there. Both of those roads are well traveled even if this particular intersection is in the middle of the desert. I usually see a large number of trucks in particular.
I wasn't arguing that. Both these highways are very important highways in this region and get decent amounts of traffic. Anything besides a traffic light (or maybe a roundabout) would be a disaster. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this gets replaced by a grade separated interchange of some kind (maybe a diamond, but a lot of things could work). And I can see how rural could be a bit ambiguous in this interchange. I see a difference between being "rural" or "in the middle of nowhere" and there being nothing there. This intersection falls under the former.
Exactly. I guess I was focused on the subject "total rural areas" to mean that there was nothing there except for the intersection and the traffic light, yet many of the examples posted on this thread like 395/58 have roadside businesses at the junction.
Quote from: Alps on March 07, 2014, 06:40:59 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 06, 2014, 07:24:46 PM
Quote from: Alps on March 06, 2014, 06:28:53 PM
If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.
there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph. not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.
as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual. then the difference is glaring.
Assume that you will have to yield when you get the roundabout. That's what I'm saying.
I'm 10 days late on this one, but shouldn't one assume one might have to stop when approaching a traffic signal? Isn't that what the term "stale green" means?
For this reason, I still don't see a problem with roundabouts on high-speed roads. Each four-way intersection treatment, whether it's a two-way stop, a four-way stop, a roundabout, or a traffic signal, just has its own advantages and disadvantages.
US 50 in central Indiana (Loogootee to Seymour) becomes a quite rural road with little traffic compared to the segments on either end. Maybe about 10 miles from Seymour, there's a random traffic light at an unpopulated crossroads. Perfectly fine sight distance in all directions, absolutely no reason for that signal. I noticed, because it turned red on me in the middle of an otherwise undisturbed drive between cities.
One other one I forgot for Nebraska is NE 133 and NE 36 NW of Omaha. I don't seem to recall much residential development near there.
The US 20/NY 80 light felt like it came out of nowhere. US 20 is totally rural on either side and at the light.
Quote from: JREwing78 on March 08, 2014, 12:51:01 PM
Blinker lights are all over the place in rural Michigan, even in the UP.
Something like this, however, is less common: M-43 @ M-40, Paw Paw, MI (https://www.google.com/maps/place/31787+Michigan+40/@42.302833,-85.878754,3a,75y,45.84h,87.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s5SlB3ZLOrerfKRePFO6Guw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x881768927b21fe2b:0x2965265e11069cab)
The most rural signal in Michigan had to be US 127 & M-57 before it was converted to an interchange.
M-57 & M-66 south of Sheridan has one.
M-91 & Sidney Road north of Greenville is the most unnecessary I've seen.
The M-66/M-50/M-43 junction on the Barry/Eaton county line is a 4-way stop that needs to be a signal. This assumes you consider "the southern outskirts of Woodbury" totally rural. I do. There's nothing to indicate a town on the western, eastern, or southern legs except for the gas station.
The last time I was through the intersection of US 19 and Alternate US 58 northwest of Abingdon, Va., it looked as if preparations were underway for some sort of installation. I don't know if it was for a full signal or for caution/stop flashers, as I haven't been back. I had planned to travel that intersection on the way to Hampton Roads, but alas, that trip is probably not going to happen now.
I've always thought Ontario has an unusual amount of rural signals. I don't know if the warrants have a lower threshold, but it seemed that some of the signals I've seen there would only be flashing beacons if the intersections were in Michigan.
SPH-L710
Drove through the US 19/Alternate US 58 intersection this morning. There is a traffic light there now.
There's a signal at US 90 at LA 318 in rural St. Mary Parish, LA. It's the point where the freeway stretch of US 90 begins/ends. It's also awaiting conversion to an interchange.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM
This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.
https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o
I was through there last week, and had the opposite conclusion. I like the roundabout as a substitute for a 4-way stop in a rural area. I wish the other 4-way stops along the eastern piece of 400 would be like this intersection.